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Roobushin (Skeleton)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Colonel M, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Roobushin

    What, did you NOT expect this?

    [Overview]
    <p>Roobushin shows what it takes to be an offensive powerhouse when Speed isn't its strongest suit. Roobushin's 140 base Attack shows that every hit from Roobushin is going to hurt. With Guts as an ability, burning Roobushin will only lead to destruction. Those stone slabs Roobushin holds aren't for show either as it is as durable as the slabs are. While 65 Special Defense may not seem like much, it's backed by 105 base HP and 95 Defense. Roobushin lacks Close Combat, but holds two attacks that many bulky Fighting-types would beg to have; Mach Punch and Drain Punch. Roobushin is just one of the main reasons you should have a Fighting-type resist on your team. The opponent that dares not to pack a Fighting-type resist should give up at the sight of Roobushin.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Drain Punch
    move 3: Mach Punch
    move 4: Payback / Stone Edge
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Brave / Adamant
    evs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD
    ivs: 0 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>624 Attack and 339 Defense after a Bulk Up is nothing to screw around with, and Roobushin shows the reasons why. Drain Punch allows Roobushin to tank through the opposition by hitting the opponent hard while recovering lost health. Mach Punch gives Roobushin utility for revenge killing threats such as Lucario and Doryuuzu while being able to bypass its Speed issue. The combination of these two attacks and Bulk Up makes Roobushin an annoying threat if the opposition doesn't hold a Fighting-type resist. Guts is icing on the cake since status effects such as burn and paralysis only make Roobushin stronger. Just to show how much of a monster Roobushin becomes with Guts activated, +1 Drain Punch OHKOes min HP / min Def Garchomp and is inches away from 2HKOing max HP / max Def Hippowdon. The final move is preference between shutting down Ghost-types or preventing Flying-types from wrecking your sweep. Payback is the preferred move as Roobushin can set up on Ghost-types such as Dusknoir and receive a free Attack boost thanks to many Ghost-types carrying Will-O-Wisp.</p>

    <p>There are a lot of ways to EV Roobushin. When using Payback, a Brave nature with 0 Speed IV is recommended. This allows Roobushin to use Payback at maximum power against most of Roobushin's opposition. Adamant can be used with Stone Edge since the Speed drop is unnecessary. The current EV spread mimics Machamp's durability to an extent; trading slightly inferior Special Defense for superior Defense. If you want more specific EVs, 68 HP / 224 Atk / 216 SpD Adamant allows Roobushin to take a Timid Shandera Overheat. While slightly inefficient, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD Adamant can also work as it retains Roobushin's maximum power while buffing Roobushin's weaker defensive side. Crocune will fail to 4HKO Roobushin, without using Drain Punch, so long as Sandstorm isn't in play. This allows Roobushin to comfortably obtain two Bulk Ups and follow up with Drain Punch to recover the health lost from Boiling Water. If Crocune decides to Calm Mind, it would need to Calm Mind 6 times to even KO Roobushin. Max HP is never a bad option as it still makes Roobushin sturdy on the special defensive end of the spectrum while improving its physical bulk further. After a Bulk Up, Skarmory's Brave Bird will fail to 2HKO Roobushin. This allows Roobushin to Bulk Up while Skarmory switches in, Bulk Up twice, survive the second Brave Bird assault, and follow up with Drain Punch, which will 2HKO Skarmory. This means when facing Roobushin, Skarmory must either spam Brave Bird, Whirlwind it out (thus risking a chance of Roobushin recovering health after the first Bulk Up and following up with Drain Punch), or Roost and thus Skarmory dies. One can choose to be more defensive, though keep in mind that Roobushin will not be an immediate threat until it uses Bulk Up a few times. 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD Careful allows Roobushin to set up on Pokemon such as Vaporeon easily. Boiling Water won't even 4HKO Roobushin while +1 Drain Punch can fully recover Roobushin's health lost.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>Roobushin's main issues are Pokemon that resist or are immune to Fighting-type attacks. While Payback or Stone Edge can alleviate some of the problem, it is not the end all solution. If Roobushin is using Payback, make sure to pack Pokemon that can take down Flying-types. If Roobushin is prompted to use Stone Edge, Roobushin’s teammates need to be able to handle Ghost-types. Stealth Rock is highly recommended to deter Flying-types such as Boroturosu and Zapdos from wrecking Roobushin. Spikes and / or Toxic Spikes are never a bad idea as it alleviates being stalled out by Hippowdon. Scarf Tyranitar is a great Pokemon to pair alongside Roobushin. While the sandstorm nullifies Leftovers recovery, Tyranitar eliminates many of Roobushin’s threats thanks to Tyranitar’s powerful STABs. Roobushin can take some special attacks, but it doesn't like facing a special sweeper while trying to set up. Chansey or Blissey can help absorb powerful special attacks, though beware of Psycho Shock. Roobushin’s team should have some way of weakening the opponent’s physical walls. Infernape is never a bad Pokemon to use for this purpose. Gengar can help a lot since it hits many Psychic-types hard thanks to STAB Shadow Ball while Roobushin keeps Tyranitar away from Gengar.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Focus Punch
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Focus Punch
    move 3: Mach Punch
    move 4: Payback / Stone Edge
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Roobushin brags the most powerful Focus Punch in the game. Given its good defenses and slow Speed allows Roobushin to set up Substitute safely. After Substitute is set up, the opponent is not going to enjoy what could possibly come next. STAB Focus Punch has so much power it 2HKOes Skarmory after Stealth Rock; even with Leftovers taken into account. Mach Punch is a great move to compliment Focus Punch as it can KO severely wounded Pokemon in the process. Payback and Stone Edge finish the set off to compliment Roobushin’s Fighting-type STAB. Payback makes sure that no Ghost-types will be willing to switch into Roobushin; even +0 Payback can 2HKO Dusknoir while Dusknoir won’t even break Roobushin’s Substitute with Shadow Punch. Sadly, 0 SpA Burungeru does 26% minimum with Boil Over on max HP Roobushin. If you opt to use 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD with an Adamant Nature, Burungeru’s Boil Over won’t break Roobushin’s Substitute most of the time (22% - 26.2%). Stone Edge helps prevent switch-ins such as Zapdos and Salamence out of the picture.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>
    Show Hide
    [Overview]
    • Note on Mach Punch, +10 Atk, slightly more physical Defense (without major investment) than Machamp, can invest in a decent amount of SpD if you EV it correctly, and has access to Taunt in comparison to Machamp, Hariyama, and Nageki.
    • Guts being a great ability on a Pokemon that already hits pretty hard as is.
    • Strongest Substitute + Focus Punch user in the game.
    • Note on its disadvantages: Lack of Close Combat (let's face it: Superpower is meh), elemental punches, Iron Fist... which technically exists I guess, mediocre Special Defense.
    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Mach Punch
    move 3: Drain Punch
    move 4: Payback / Stone Edge
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    Set Comments
    • Bulk Up not only improves physical offense, but physical defense. Suddenly, Skarmory does 39.6% - 46.9%, which fails to 2HKO if Roobushin holds Leftovers and Skarmory switches into Bulk Up. Hippowdon is in a worse situation: Earthquake does 20.3% - 23.9%.
    • Bulk Up + Mach Punch is an awesome combo due to Roobushin being a slow, but powerful, Pokemon. Priority is a big step for it.
    • Payback vs. Stone Edge for the same old same old.
    • Guts is a useful tool in general on this set since it emphasizes on obtaining as much attack as possible.
    • Drain Punch is great on this set since Roobushin wants more health anyway.
    Additional Comments
    • With Flame Orb, Roobushin is assured to OHKO Doryuuzu with Mach Punch so long as Doryuuzu has minimum investment.
    • Emphasis on how Special Defense-oriented EV set works well since Roobushin is boosting its Attack and can bypass part of its Speed issue with Mach Punch.
    • Taunt could be used, but it involves a lot of issues with moveslots.
    • Needs attention with the weather.
    Teammates & Counters
    • Tentative: Lugia, Giratina, Groudon, and Wobbuffet do well against this set.
    • Gliscor can Taunt Bulk Ups, but if it steps into Bulk Up, Roobushin will take Earthquakes with relative ease. 17.6% - 21% from 0 Attack Gliscor. Sandstorm means that Roobushin is forced to switch out of course, but Gliscor doesn't really do much back either. It's more of a stalemate, with Gliscor as the winner.
    • Skarmory can phase it out or use Brave Bird.
    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Hammer Arm / Superpower
    move 2: Mach Punch
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Payback
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    Set Comments

    • 624 Attack after a Choice Band; 936 with Guts activated.
    • Mach Punch will OHKO 0/0 Doryuuzu: 95.3% - 113%. Stealth Rock inflicts 3% damage, so you might need Doryuuzu "slightly" weakened or a layer of Spikes.
    • After Guts is activated, Superpower will OHKO even 252 HP / 252 Def Vaporeon. Hammer Arm does 75.4% - 88.9% to the current standard Skarmory, and Superpower will OHKO with Stealth Rock on the field. Brave Bird does 58.5% - 69.6%, which will put it into KO range for sure. Hammer Arm will at least 2HKO Hippowdon, but you'll need Speed EVs to get faster than him (unless you're paralyzed; then you're screwed). Superpower does 84.3% - 99.3% to the "current" Hippowdon spread and does 78.1% - 92.1% to max HP / max Def Hippo.
    • Stone Edge and Payback are for coverage options. Stone Edge does 42.8% - 50.3% to Max HP / Max Def Positive Spiritomb. Guts puts it at 63.8% - 75.3%. Payback does 76.9% - 90.5% to the current Dusknoir (252 HP / 228 Def Positive nature).
    • This is more for "appeal" purposes. +1 Mach Punch vs.

      0/0 Lucario: 108.9% - 128.1%
      0/0 Terrakion: 78% - 91.6%
      0/0 Mamoswine: 75.3% - 89.8%
      0/0 Infernape: 51.5% - 60.8%
      0/0 Flygon: 45.2% - 53.8%
      0/0 Ononokusu: 43% - 50.5%
    • After Guts is activated vs.

      0/0 Mamoswine: OHKO
      0/0 Infernape: 77.1% - 91.1%
      0/0 Garchomp: 49.7% - 58.9%
    Additional Comments

    • Payback or Stone Edge can be replaced with Drain Punch if you feel Roobushin needs a recovery move of his own. +1 Drain Punch isn't ground-breaking, but the move can help with the damage taken from Burn / Poison. Hitting 252 HP / 152 Def Impish Hippowdon will allow Roobushin to recover ~100 HP with +2 Drain Punch.
    • Probably requests Wish support to help him out. Status and Stealth Rock will wear him down.
    • Weather changer isn't bad to have; preferably Ninetales or Groudon to help lower the threat of bulky waters.
    Teammates & Counters

    • Gliscor kind of stops it, but it needs to be careful on how it situates with Roosting. If Gliscor Roosts, +1 Hammer Arm does 53.4% - 63%. +2 does 71.2% - 83.9%. Gliscor can obviously Roost on everything else.
    • Skarmory still outspeeds it, and while it has to be careful stepping into Hammer Arms, Skarmory will slam it hard with Brave Bird. 58.5% - 69.6%, to be exact.
    • Roobushin is still slow as a Choice Bander, so take advantage of it while it's at low health. Status and Sandstorm / Hail can speed up the process. Definitely take advantage of its low Special Defense.
    • With Guts activated, Roobushin will wear itself down with Burn or Toxic damage + Sandstorm going against it.
    • Fighting-type attacks bring vulnerability to a Ghost-type switch-in, but of course they all have to watch out for Payback / Stone Edge.
    • Tentative: Wobbuffet. Must I really, really say more on this one? Again: watch out for Payback. It does 81.1% - 95.5%, and Stone Edge does 40.5% - 47.7% (both before Guts is activated), which means Wobbuffet is vulnerable to a 2HKO or a OHKO if it's weakened enough.
    • Tentative: Lugia walls its physical Fighting-type moves, but beware of taking Stone Edge or Payback. If Roobushin is boosted by Guts, proceed with extreme caution even if Stealth Rock is off the field.
    • Tentative: Giratina stops everything barring Payback. Be careful, though, as Guts boosted Payback is pretty painful - 72% - 84.7%.
    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Hammer Arm / Focus Punch
    move 3: Mach Punch
    move 4: Payback / Stone Edge
    item: Leftovers / Expert Belt
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    Set Comments
    • Roobushin creates 107 HP Substitutes, which means they can't be broken by Seismic Toss / Night Shade.
    • Strongest Focus Punch in the game.
    • Mach Punch is to help keep it differentiated from Hariyama and Machamp, as without Focus Punch or Mach Punch it's close to being "inferior" to them.
    • Stone Edge vs. Payback: Hit Flying-types or Ghost-types.
    • Sturdy enough to take a physical hit and set up a Substitute most of the time.
    • Guts does hurt when Roobushin suffers a burn or Toxic affliction, but it makes the set deadly if the opponent screws up.
    Additional Comments
    • 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful is not as ridiculous as you think. Vaporeon does 21.3% - 25.4% with Boiling Water now, which means it can fail to break your Substitute.
    • Taunt can be used to cripple a wall's recovery. Not a good idea with Focus Punch of course.
    • Probable Wish support.
    Teammates & Counters
    • 0 Atk Gliscor does 26.3% - 31.2% with Earthquake, which means the Substitute will break without Defense investment. Non-boosted Focus Punch does 33.1% - 39% to 252 HP / 0 Def Gliscor and 66.1% - 78% while Gliscor uses Roost. Meanwhile, Guts boosted Focus Punch does 49.2% - 58.2% and 98.6% - 116.4% while Gliscor uses Roost.
    • Focus Punch does 50.6% - 59.6% to 252 HP / 192 Def Impish Skarmory. After a Guts boost, though, Skarmory takes 75.4% - 88.9%. Skarmory can't Roost in either circumstance, and when Roobushin is under a status condition it is in danger of using Brave Bird if Roobushin is behind a Substitute. Skarmory is a decent check to it though thanks to Brave Bird 2HKOing Roobushin.
    • Tentative: Lugia, Giratina, Groudon, and Wobbuffet do well against this set. Groudon needs to beware of Guts Focus Punches.
    [Team Options]
    • Wish supporters that draw in weak Pokemon that target Roobushin's Def is appreciated. Since Roobushin lacks an immunity, it's a bit harder to get him in. Jirachi would be targeted by Crunch from Tyranitar if it has Aqua Tail or Superpower and lacks Earthquake and Fire Blast. Jirachi also handles the Physical walls that trouble Skarmory well with Grass Knot, Ice Punch, and Thunderbolt.
    • Ghost-types will commonly drop in and chat with Roobushin, so a Pursuit user is never a bad idea to have. Tyranitar has the benefit that it has a fair amount of Special Defense behind it thanks to Sandstream, but it is fairly counterproductive with Roobushin's recovery. Scarf Warubiaru, with an Adamant nature, has the same amount of power as Jolly Tyranitar does but boasts extra Speed to threaten Crobat, Alakazam, Jolteon, Darkrai, Shaymin-S, and Scarf Heatran away. Granted that it cannot Pursuit Shaymin-S and Darkrai safely, but it can hit Darkrai with STAB Earthquake and Shaymin-S with Stone Edge.
    • Wobbuffet can help deal with Special Attackers.
    • Paralysis support can go a long way for Roobushin. Nattorei and Lugia both have access to Thunder Wave, though Nattorei's Gyro Ball drops in power.
    [Optional Changes]
    • As listed many times, Drain Punch is an option to keep Roobushin's health up-to-par.
    • Low Kick doesn't work as well on light Pokemon, but it can hit harder than Hammer Arm on Pokemon such as Snorlax.
    • Force Palm has a 30% chance of paralysis, but is illegal with Mach Punch.
    • Encourage set with Rock Slide, Poison Jab, and Force Palm can work, but it's not that great. Force Palm's base power only becomes 78, before STAB.
    [Counters]
    • Gliscor can switch into any Roobushin set and take it down steadily with Earthquake. It needs to beware using Roost under some circumstances, such as when the Choice Band set is Poisoned.
    • Skarmory does well thanks to STAB Brave Bird. Of course, watch out for Guts + Choice Band Hammer Arm as it can OHKO Skarmory if it steps into Stealth Rock.
    • Hippowdon can work to a lesser extent, but the prime thing Hippowdon is useful for is "stalling it out" on weaker-healthed Roobushins.
    • Ghost-types, such as Gengar and Giratina, can switch into Roobushin's Fighting-type attacks and hit on its weaker defensive side with STAB Shadow Ball (or STAB Draco Meteor in Giratina-O's case).
    • Tentative: Giratina, Lugia, Groudon, and Wobbuffet do well against Roobushin. Some of these Pokemon need to beware of Guts and Choice Band though, as switching into the wrong move can even mean death to these powerful badasses.

    [Dream World]
    • Iron Fist is an excellent option to use on an Expert Belt set. It OHKOes Doryuuzu with Mach Punch.
    • Drain Punch's base power also gets a buff.
    • Iron Fist would work well with the Substitute set and using Focus Punch. Even resists that are weak enough, such as Heracross, can't switch into Focus Punch well. 0/0 Heracross takes 71.5% - 84.4% from Focus Punch, followed by 19.2% - 22.8% from Mach Punch. Combine 12.5% with Stealth Rock, and you have a dead Heracross.
  2. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    Guts + CB is not +2. +2 is a 2x boost, Guts + CB is a 2.25x boost. So the damages you listed are actually higher.

    Not much difference in results, though it makes that 2HKO on Garchomp a guaranteed one.
  3. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Really, that's frigging crazy. Probably shouldn't bother with a re-calc, but at least I know it guarantees a 2HKO on Chomp (and I think now Hammer Arm can OHKO Skarmory).

    Thanks for the tip!
  4. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Done. If anyone wants me to add something, go ahead. I put Uber stuff as "Tentative" if only because... well... you get the point.
  5. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
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    On a Bulk Up Set, if you're running Drain Punch then Flame Orb would make more sense, as while Toxic amounts to the same damage as Burn over 3 turns, on the 4th turn and any subsequent turns Toxic is the much more damaging effect, and Drain Punch will be incapable of keeping up with it. Even though such a set is fairly suicidal and may not even last 4 turns, Roobushin will be gaining absurd amounts of HP from Drain Punch on many common targets. (As an unrelated aside, Flame Orb is also a much less desirable item for most Trick Abusers to end up having, as many are immune to Toxic but hate Burn e.g. Metagross and Jirachi.)

    In that vein its also a good idea to switch Roobushin in if an opponent has laid only one lair of Toxic Spikes, as it will only lose 6% health per turn wth Leftovers instead of ever increasing amounts. Same if it switches in to a predicted Will-o-Wisp, really.
  6. Rising_Dusk

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    Fixed a few naming, spacing, and bolding errors, but otherwise this looks great! Marking as done.
  7. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Done Deck Knight's suggestion with the Flame Orb and added Drain Punch as an option.
  8. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    11:52 Colonel_M Just post it in the thread to make it "official"

    IMO Bulk Up is Roobushin's best set. He's bulky enough to take hits while setting up and makes Hippowdon cry. Bulk Upped Drain Punch restores an incredible amount of health with that power too.

    I'd deslash Flame Orb to be honest. It really kills his bulk and only worsens during a sandstorm.
  9. Stellar

    Stellar true and everlasting
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    I don't really see the need for Rock Slide on the Choice Band set. Roobushin is incredibly slow so flinch isn't a deciding factor. While the accuracy is nice, with Roobushin's high Attack, the power drop from Stone Edge will be pretty significant.
  10. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Done the suggestions. I wonder what was going through my head since Rock Slide was only mentioned once in the entire analysis: Choice Band set. Also removed Flame Orb and added it in AC.
  11. Mr.Senior

    Mr.Senior

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    this is funny i actually run one of the exact same sets u put

    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Mach Punch
    move 3: Drain Punch
    move 4: Payback
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    i didnt get it from anywhere either i just thought i made it myself or thought it was obvious for a standard =P. but anyway from experience this works extremely well. i myself have been shocked to see how successful it has been and how well he can take hits even on the special side (weak boil overs/thunderbolts etc.). this guy will be high ou when tiers get settled and rightfully so. i can imagine a subpunch set doing absurd amounts of damage as well
  12. Ech0ez

    Ech0ez

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    Would a Guts abusing Trick Room sweeper be worth mentioning in the analysis? Although TR sweeper sets are generally avoided since fundamentally they're just existing sets with minimal speed investment, Roobushin has access Guts and a priority move that gives it a somewhat unique niche over a lot of other Trick Room sweepers, having a combination of absurd raw power with the freedom to switch attacks and been able to threaten faster Pokemon outside of TR should need be.

    Might not be worth dedicating an entire set to it, but I think Roobushin's utility in Trick Room merits mention somewhere in Additional Comments or Team Options (Perhaps an Optional Changes segment for the CB set, since the moveset would be pretty similar, bar potentially running Facade or EQ over Payback.)
  13. LonelyNess

    LonelyNess PK FLASH
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    Petition to name the Bulk Up Set "R U PUSHIN???"

    Signed:

    LonelyNess
  14. Corrupted

    Corrupted

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    248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SDef, Adamant

    For the Bulk Up Set.

    It gives Roopushin 37% better defence on the special side. And only loses 18% of its power. It lets Roopushin beat Gengar, Shandera, Latios, and other special attackers. It also lets him beat bulky waters more easily.
  15. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    K so there's like 109238109284209384290384 number of ways to EV this bastard. I'll look into the other EV spreads suggested, but need thoughts on other EV spreads if you know what I mean.
  16. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Just so you know the 68 HP/ 252 At/ 216 SpD spread you posted exceeds max EVs. The max attack you can have with that HP and SpD is 224, giving you I think 409 Attack, since that is what I run.
    The beauty of the spread is that you hit magic Leftovers number which you either didn't know or forgot to mention, and yes you can survive Shandera Overheat with that from full, all while still having a NATURAL attack stat above 400. Insane. The SpD EVs are IMO necessary and much better than all HP as Bulk Up increases your already above average defense to tankish levels. Without the SpD you simply fall too easy to special attacks and many neutral special STAB attacks that would normally be a 3HKO become a 2HKO. Status is also so common in the meta game with Toxic Spikes, Thunder Wave and Boiling Water that Flame/Toxic Orb aren't only unecessary, they cripple your survivability. Roopushin is plenty strong enough without the Guts boost, it's just an insurance policy more than anything with a nice little boost.
    Alternatively for a bit more survivability at the expense of power you can shoot for the next magic HP number with I think would be 132 HP/ 180 At/ 216 SpD. This changes your Attack to 393 I believe and gives you HP of either 352 or 368 I can't check.
    Finally, Stone Edge or Rock Slide are both way more useful than Payback. After a Bulk Up the rock attacks are plenty strong enough to OHKO those frail Psychics and Ghosts like Espeon, Gengar and Shandera. Meanwhile, Payback is usless against his real counters like Gliscor and flying Dragons (anything that resists Fighting and isn't weak to Dark). You can even use SE on a predicted Shandera switch since I don't think unboosted Payback will OHKO it, though I'm not sure. Regardless, a Rock attack is by far your best bet
  17. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    304, 320, 336, 352, 368, 384, 400, 416

    Roo's hp maxes at 414, so his highest lefties number is 400.
  18. Colon Three :3

    Colon Three :3

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    I think you should add Ulgamoth to the list of counters seeing that Roobushin without stone edge will be unable to do any significant damage to bulky Ulgamoth variants who will proceed to KO you with either Psychic or Hurricane.
  19. McNUTTY

    McNUTTY

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    EDIT: calculator's fucked re did it on the smogon one and came up with better results.
    I still maintain that Ulgamoth will not carry either of those move just for Roobushin. especially when fire blast does more.
  20. Murkglow

    Murkglow

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    I fully agree the Moth isn't going to be running Psychic or Hurricane but he is a counter if you don't run Stone Edge.

    Still even with Stone Edge you'll run into counters (Lati@s/Celebi/Mew/Slowbro) so it just depends on what you want to be stopped by and I don't think either is much better then the other (though Payback doesn't get you killed because you missed... "Grumble*). Oh and I definatly don't consider Gliscor as something Stone Edge helps with. It's only a neutral hit (and becomes resisted on a roost) and combined with the miss chance (which is only made worse by the likely sandstorm going on) I don't think Stone Edge will get you past Gliscor.
  21. Colon Three :3

    Colon Three :3

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    Ulgamoth usually carries its 2 STABs, Butterfly Dance and a coverage move. Surprisingly, Ulgamoth has a rather small list of choices for coverage moves, Psychic, Windstorm/Hurricane, and Hidden Power are pretty much his only choices for coverage moves. Psychic and Windstorm both provide a decent boost to coverage and are surprisingly more common than you'd think.
  22. Murkglow

    Murkglow

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    I guess I'll just say that I wouldn't run either of those over a Hidden Power of some flavor (especially Hurricane which has poor accuracy and can get even worse accuracy in sun).
  23. PooF

    PooF

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    Seems noone noticed this, but trick room set would really deserve at least a mention. Roobushin is just perfectly built for a TR sweeper, with low speed and massive atk stat which can be boosted using flame or toxic orb without wasting a turn (very important for TR sweper). Hammer arm is a perfect STAB for TR, Stone edge and earthquake (he learns it, right?) are probably best coverage moves as payback is inefficent in TR. Mach punch in the last slot makes Roobushin useful even outside TR conditions.
  24. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Wrt Trick Room: it would likely be in Optional Changes or Additional Comments for the Choice Band sets.

    I'm probably going to ladder a bit more and experiment a bit. First is to find other partners that compliment Roobushin. The other is to test a few sets and how they would function. While I originally removed Flame Orb from the Bulk Up set, I almost want to give it a try. The biggest reason is that after a Bulk Up its like having a nuke. It can heal itself with Drain Punch at least, so its not completely boned (unlike say Machamp trying to run such a set, or even Heracross perhaps). Since it takes two Bulk Ups to KO physical walls such as Skarmory and Hippowdon with Drain Punch, the Flame Orb would at least make that look more significant, though I'd have to run calcs to double check that it would even be viable on paper.

    That, and suddenly while writing Roobushin I got anxious to ladder again. Almost feel dumb enough to experiment him with Kirikizan, but it might be best not to push my luck with that. Regardless, still writing for this badass; just want to look more in-depth with it (especially with cracking the most ideal EV spread for each set).

    For the moth comments: Hurricane has 70% accuracy and I'd rather find a way to hit Heatran.
  25. breh

    breh
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    I must add, TR is really cool actually. I used it in very early (like october iirc) PO on a TR team and it worked well. I was always a bit irritated about how quickly it lost health due to SS's ubiquity (I ran Hammer Arm and LO) but thought that it hit like a pile of bricks. Also Earthquaking/Stone Edging Shanderaas was hilarious (they knew I didn't run payback; not sure players are this stupid nowadays).

    You should either run Leftovers or Drain Punch (preferably Drain Punch/LO); the rest of the moves are as PooF described (actually exactly the moves he/she described; I ran Hammer Arm/EQ/SE/Mach Punch... lol).

    Finally most ideal spread is simply 252 HP / 252 Atk imo (or just enough to make 404/400 if you want a lefties number; the other points can go wherever); unless you can get a better defensive spread that's really all it needs.

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