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RU Theorymonning

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Kenny, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Zoroark would be an interesting case in RU. It sits at a nice speed tier of 105 which, while outsped by the top tier of speed threats is still quite good and beats most things. Zoroark's best set would probably be a Choice Specs set, luring in Physical walls and crushing them with Specs boosted Dark Pulse/Flamethrower/Focus Blast. It could form effective combinations with Pokemon like Scolipede and especially Hitmonlee and co. being able to lure in Psychic attacks which Zoroark is immune to. Notably in the latter case, a Hitmonlee disguised Zoroark will be able to lure in and destroy Uxie, Misdreavus, Golurk, Rotom, Dusknoir and Spiritomb to an extent, opening up paths for a Hitmonless sweep.

    Other options for Zoroark include a Nasty Plot set, a Swords Dance set, a Choice Scarf set and a Mixed attacker set. The last set, a mixed attacker would likely be Zoroark's next best set, with Dark Pulse, Low Kick, Flamethrower and Sucker Punch. Low Kick allows Zoroark to hit Pokemon such as Clefable and (lol) Munchlax more effectively than its other options, while the other attacks give Zoroark a good mix of power, coverage with a last ditch priority attack as well.

    Nasty Plot is a nice option for Zoroark, as it can use it Illusion to create a set up opportunity for it to go to work with its Dark / Fighting / Fire coverage as very few Pokemon can take +2 attacks from Zoroark. Similarly a Swords Dance set with Night Slash / Low Kick / Sucker Punch can function similarly with the added bonus of priority for the faster Pokemon, though it unfortunately suffers from slightly greater coverage issues than the Nasty Plot set. Finally, a Choice Scarf set can be effective as a cleaner and to take out faster Pokemon that see the illusory mon as a free kill. That said, the relatively low base power of most of Zoroark's moves and lack of boosting item makes this a less desirable option.

    The ultimate downfall of Zoroark with all of its set is Zoroark's extreme frailty. Its horrific 60 / 60 / 60 bulk means that it completely relies on its Illusion to create set up opportunities as any attack will KO or cripple it. In the case of the boosting sets, opposing priority is supremely threatening, particularly Mach Punch from Hitmonlee or Hitmonchan. Zoroark's bulk also means it is forced to switch out the moment a faster Pokemon or Choice Scarfer threatens to outspeed and KO it. This means that Zoroark will be taking a lot of recoil damage between SR, potential Spikes, a possible Life Orb and the occasional Toxic Spikes. Its longevity drops dramatically each time it has to switch.

    In short, Zoroark in RU will be the definition of a glass cannon, capable of great power and its Illusion creating KO and set up opportunities, but at the cost of dying to nearly anything.
  2. Explorer

    Explorer

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    What if Klinklang got Rapid Spin?

    This would make defensive Klinklang sets actually existent. Maybe something like

    Klinklang @ Leftovers
    Ability: N/A
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 Spe
    Nature: Impish
    -Substitute
    -Rapid Spin
    -Toxic
    -Gear Grind

    Substitute is meant to block status, especially burns, and allows Klinklang to stall non-ResTalk Spiritomb 1 v 1. Rapid Spin removes rocks and the like, making Pokemon such as Air Balloon Magmortar good partners. Toxic stalls out opponents, mostly Ghost-types without Rest, but it works on many others as well (really just don't aim at Poison-types, Steel-types, Pokemon with Rest, Hariyama, or Throh). Gear Grind is the best attack, ensuring Klinklang doesn't have to Struggle if Taunted, and is Klinklang's only physical STAB. It also breaks Substitutes. The EVs let Klinklang get up a Substitute relatively quickly while absorbing physical attacks very well, since special moves slaughter it anyway.

    What if Uxie were banned from RU?

    Pokemon that hate combatting it would flourish, which mostly means Fighting-types and certain sweepers (really almost anything except Shell Smash Crustle, SD Drapion, and Absol). The metagame would become much more offensive with this top mixed wall absent. Pokemon such as Musharna, Gardevoir, and Torterra would be relied upon to set up Dual Screens, and offensive Pokemon such as Flame Orb Hariyama and Gem Hitmonlee cleaners would have an easier time sweeping. Weather teams would also lose a bit of popularity since Uxie set up both Sunny Day and Rain Dance very well.
  3. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Okay, I will answer some of these.

    What if Klinklang got Rapid Spin?

    This would be rather interesting, as it is a Steel-type with spin. However, Klinklang would still receive really stiff competition from the likes of Kabutops and Cryogonal, which means that it still is hard pressed to find a spot as a spinner. Klinklang also has a really hard time with spinners, though, so it may not do very well in some circumstances. That set Explorer posted though may seem very cool, stalling out spinblockers like Spiritomb and Rotom rather well with SubToxic, meaning it does stall rather well. However, as a defensive Pokemon, Steelix and Ferroseed give it really stiff competition. Klinklang won't be the best spinner, but it may be a nice change of pace.

    What if Sheer Force Feraligatr was released?

    Unless it gets booted to UU within the next tier shift, Feraligatr would easily become a massive threat. If Sheer Force comes legal with DD, DD Gatr would be a powerful threat, with great coverage between Waterfall, Ice Punch, and Crunch, and LO+SF would make it extremely powerful. Many walls will be crushed under its might, as nothing can really take a hit from it. Sheer Force Gatr would usually prefer Dragon Dance over SD so it can sweep at faster opponents such as Sceptile and Scolipede, and DD provides enough power overall. These would make Feraligatr a mighty threat that all must prepare for.

    What if Mandibuzz learned Bulk Up?

    Mandibuzz might actually be a potent offensive threat if she learned Bulk Up. Her bulk is pretty big and allows her to set up, and BB can hit decently hard. Her typing allows her to set up on things like Uxie and Lilligant rather well, so she can pose quite the threat. SubBU can be pretty strong with enough boosts, which would be easy to get. However, as Swamp-Rocket said, it would receive very stiff competition from Braviary, but overall it could potentially make Mandibuzz an offensive threat.

    What if Uxie were booted from RU?

    Hitmonlee and Medicham can breathe a little easier now, as there's one less threat to worry about. There's less need for Lum Berry without Uxie, as less Pokemon have to worry about Thunder Wave coming their way. Its support options will be greatly missed though. Mesprit would probably take over for Uxie's spot as a bulky Psychic type (and I love Mesprit, so that wouldn't be too big a deal for me). Mesprit has quite an amazing movepool and can set up weather pretty damn well as well as TR. It can run most of Uxie's sets, albeit not as well as Uxie can, but Mesprit can do decently as a replacement. Musharna and others also work well in aspects to take over for the void left behind if Uxie leaves the tier.

    How would Zoroark fare in RU?

    Zoroark would easily become a potent offensive threat in RU if it dropped. Zoroark hits pretty hard as is, and its special movepool is nothing to laugh at, as it's got some pretty damn good coverage to work with. As Texas said, Specs Zoroark would be its best set, as when used in conjunction with Hitmonlee, can attract things like Uxie and Golurk while smashing them with a Specs Dark Pulse, making things all the more easier for them. Nasty Plot Zoroark would be a great threat that hits really hard, while its admirable Speed tier, although still shit on by speedsters like Sceptile and Scolipede (these two are the most notable speed machines in the tier), is pretty good. Zoroark can also run mixed, and Illusion makes it a great teammate for Fighting-types, as it can lure opposing Psychics and Ghosts to make their sweeps go more smoothly. It's really, really frail though which means anything faster or has priority can really pick it off. Zoroark would definitely be a threat though, and something that must be prepared for.

    Since Rabid actually thought of that, I have another theory of my own.

    How would Bisharp and Krookodile fare in RU?
  4. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    How would Krookodile fare in RU?


    First off, i know for a fact that the vast majority of veteran RU players would happily welcome Krook back into RU, it was one of the best mons in early RU, and one of the most fun to use/play against imo.

    So anyways, like those players, i would absolutely love Krookodile in the new meta, and i think it'd be as good as ever, cleaning up teams late game with Scarf Moxie or punching holes in various defensive Pokemon with Life Orb. Both sets would utilize Pursuit rather well, trapping faster and slower threats more effectively, respectively. I think quite a few Pokemon would be affected by Krookodile's presence if it dropped, both positively and negatively. Tangrowth, Poliwrath, Ferroseed, and Alomomola would all rise in usage, as they all serve as excellent counters to Krookodile, taking its attacks with ease and retalitating with super effective Water- and Grass-type moves Ferroseed could even get a few layers of spikes up on it! Feraligatr, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan and possibly even Gurdurr would probably increase in usage as well, being able to revenge kill a Scarf Krook with Aqua Jet and Mach Punch before it can do too much damage, respectively. Gurdurr could even take multiple, possibly Moxie boosted Attacks from Gurdurr before Mach Punching in before thanks to its Eviolite bolstered bulk and resistance to Dark-type attacks. Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon such as Uxie, Sigilyph, and especially Rotom would drop in usage if Krookodile was reintroduced into the tier, as they're all vulnerable to being trapped by it, Krook's even immune to Electric-type attacks, giving it an even easier time switching into both Uxie and Rotom to trap them. Drapion would probably decrease in usage as well, with the presence of an all around better fast, physical Dark-type pushing it further into the shadows. To make matters even worse for Drapion, Krookodile resists both of its STABs, has enough bulk to take an Earthquake, and can OHKO Drapion in return with an Earthquake of its own, possibly starting a Moxie sweep in the process.
  5. Explorer

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    What if Sheer Force Feraligatr was released?

    Feraligatr usage would shoot up. I, for one, have eagerly been awaiting for Sheer Force to be released. Waterfall would become incredibly powerful, especially after a boost. Crunch would also receive a major boost, as would Ice Punch. These three moves together have very nice coverage. Since all of these attacks would get a double boost, chances are some people would be nixing Dragon Dance in favor of Agility, and then investing in attack to the max and adding some EVs into bulk that it could not with Dragon Dance. For instance:

    Feraligatr @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 60 HP/252 Atk/196 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    -Waterfall
    -Agility
    -Ice Punch
    -Crunch/Earthquake

    Even without a +1 in Attack, Feraligatr's moves will be of power similar to +1 Atk Dragon Dance Torrent Feraligatr, and will be able to outspeed threats it could not before, such as Sceptile (before Unburden), and many Choice Scarf users.

    Whimsicott would be a great partner for Feraligatr because it lures in Fire-types and has Prankster Tailwind. With this Pokemon as a partner, Feraligatr could run a 3 attacks + SD set much more easily.
  6. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    I've been wondering this for a while. It might happen, despite the usage stats not proving it.
    How would Arcanine fare in the tier?

    As for bisharp, I think he would be just as good as if not better than absol. His secondary steel typing will allow him to wall some of the grass types in the tier. With the potential Dusclops drop (still think this ghost is A/B-tier material) Bisharp can setup a substitute and swords dance on him and a STAB sucker punch can OHKO him after 3 layers of spikes if he uses night shade. I really don't know much about how bisharp will fare in the tier and against other threats.
  7. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    What If Lilligant learned Power Gem?

    At the moment one of Lilligant's main issues is its lack of good coverage options, being limited to her Grass STAB and Hidden Power for the most part, and although Hidden Power can patch up the coverage issue a little bit, no matter which Hidden Power Lilligant runs she always ends up being walled by something. With the addition of something like Power Gem to Lilligant's movepool, she could basically run both Hidden Power Fire and Hidden Power Rock at the same time, or she could run a totally different Hidden Power such as Hidden Power Ground to compliment her new coverage option, allowing her to get past many of the Pokemon that rely on her having a certain Hidden Power to beat her, such as Entei, Escavalier, and Moltres. In return though, Lilligant would end up with a case of 4mss, she cant run both of those coverage moves, Quiver Dance, her STAB, and Sleep Powder all at the same time! This means that Lilligant is now unable to use Sleep Powder to get free set up turns or put one of her checks out of commision for the rest of the match. So what would you do if Lilligant learned Power Gem? Would you use Quiver Dance+3 attacks, or would you continue to put Sleep Powder in there somewhere. Would you run Power Gem along with Hidden Power Fire? or would you consider pairing it with a totally different Hidden Power to compliment it? If any, what Pokemon do you think would rise to check Lilligant with her new coverage option, and what might possibly fall in usage in turn, if anything at all. Examples of Pokemon i'd think would increase in usage include Bouffalant, Emboar, and Druddigon.
  8. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I was going to go on about more dropdowns but then the post was too long. I'll go with these two first.

    What if Bisharp was RU?
    [​IMG]

    Bisharp isn't really that interesting of a dropdown, despite being a good Pokemon.

    The first thing that pops with Bisharp is the fact that it is very similar to Absol in most respects. The only real difference is that Bisharp is a Steel-type and lacks the random Special Attacks Absol gets. Bisharp also has a better physical bulk than Absol, and this, thanks to its typing, allows Bisharp to set up or switch in a easier against foes, because it is immune to Toxic and resists a few random attacks (Most notably Stone Edge), meaning it can switch and threaten the foe with a STAB Sucker Punch. This is actually fairly big, as Absol cannot do either of these things, meaning that Bisharp's Swords Dance set is more threatening to stall, especially when potentially combined with a Substitute.

    The extra weaknesses don't matter because Absol won't survive any STAB Fire or Ground move anyway, and even non STAB ones do a lot of damage. Speaking of Absol, it is pretty obvious that it would be hurt in usage, but it wouldn't be unused. Fire Blast allows Absol to threaten Pokemon such as Escavalier, which Bisharp cannot do, although hitting Steelix hard wouldn't be as important because Bisharp's Low Kick against it is basically Superpower without the drop in power. Thunderbolt would also aid Absol quite a bit against foes such as Poliwrath (which may be best check to Bisharp out there) and Alomomola. Absol's higher speed also means basically nothing, as there is no Pokemon that Absol outspeeds and Bisharp does not (there are things that it can speed-tie, but not outpseed).

    Basically, Bisharp would be confined to the same role as Absol's Swords Dance set is currently doing - it is a huge threat to offensive teams with a +2 Sucker Punch in the wings, albeit with more switch-ins, making it better. It could also be an All-Out Attacker, but Absol could have a chance to be used over it in that case. Bisharp wouldn't have too much of an impact for those who prepare for Absol, but it would be a welcome upgrade a set that is arguably one of the biggest threats to offense in RU. It wouldn't really shake anything up usage wise other than Absol, however, although it also makes a nice switch into Cinccino because it resists all 3 of its moves, so it might make it drop in usage too because it is pretty much the only common offensive Pokemon I can think of that cannot deal with Bisharp almost at all.

    What if Krookodile was RU?
    [​IMG]

    Unlike Bisharp, this thing would be a new kind of threat in RU... errr... a familiar threat that would make a welcome return for older players.

    Krookodile has several traits that would make it one of the best Pokemon in RU almost without a doubt. Its Ground/Dark typing is excellent in RU, hitting a ton of different Pokemon in RU for a lot of damage with a combination of Crunch and Earthquake. Its speed is also very good, as it outspeeds Rotom, Moltres, Lilligant, Klinklang, Rotom-C, Magmortar, Kabutops, Gallade, Mesprit, most Uxie, Electivire that don't invest fully in speed, and Medicham, which is a large chunk of the offensive Pokemon in the tier. Also, notice how it can hit all but 5 of the Pokemon I listed for super effecive damage with its STAB moves alone. Its attack is also pretty good and its bulk is alright, although its bad defensive typing leaves it wide open to a lot of Pokemon.

    Krookodile could run quite a few sets to success. The first is a Choice Scarf set, most likely consisting of Earthquake / Crunch / Stone Edge / Pursuit. This set is capable of revenge killing a lot of the Pokemon within the tier, and what really makes this set unique is Moxie. There is currently no Pokemon listed as RU that has the ability Moxie, meaning that it could easily double as a late-game sweeper and it would be the best at its job at doing this. A Life Orb set, consisting of the above could also perform similarly, except allowing it to switch around its Attacks. On this set, I see Intimidate being a decent option as well - Intimidate the foe, make them switch out due to their lower attack, use Pursuit on them, and do quite a bit of damage, although Moxie would still be preferred so then it would eventually be extremely difficult to wall. The Life Orb could be replaced by a Lum Berry for burns although Krookodile being immune to Thunder Wave makes this not as important.

    Two Pokemon that would get wrecked in usage are Rotom and Drapion - Rotom is pretty much destroyed by every variant of Krookodile, and having it on your team almost becomes a liability with Krookodile because it checkmates it. Drapion, on the other hand, it almost completely outclassed offensively by Krookodile, and its Specially Defensive set is hardly impressive anymore (that and Krookodile OHKOs it easily), meaning that Krookodile would probably make it drop into NU. Other Pokemon such as Uxie and Mesprit would also be hurt by Krookodile's presence, as they get Pursuited, Crunched, and can't do much back to it without prediction, if they even have the moves in their movepool to do it. Poliwrath would rise in usage if Krookodile was RU, because it is one of the few Bulky Waters in the tier than doesn't potentially get defeated by Krookodile (Slowking and Lanturn are weak to a STAB move), and it can phaze it out of its Moxie boosts. Tangrowth is also a good Pokemon to take it on thanks to its high physical bulk and lack of weaknesses to its moves. As Molk mentioned, Gurdurr may find some usage it has never seen before as well because of how well it takes on Krookodile. Overall, Krookodile would easily be a Top 10 Pokemon, if not a Top 5, due to all its excellent traits and the ability to defeat almost everything with enough boosts (try switching Sceptile or Lilligant into a +1 Crunch and see what happens). It would be perfectly manageable as well.
  9. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

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    What if Krookodile was RU?

    Krookodile would definitely be the new face of Offence and Spike Staking teams. With Good Attack and Speed stats and to top it all it gets Moxie. With Choice Scarf equipped Krookodile becomes (probably) the best cleaner in RU. With the aid of hazards Krookodile sweeps weakend teams like there's no tomorrow. The thing is that you can't sac something to it, if you do it becomes much more harder to kill. Priority is probably your best bet against Krookodile, since he's hit for SE damage from both Aqua Jet and Mach Punch. Although it may be outclassed, Krookodile could function as a utility pokemon with Stealth Rock and Intimidate. I've played a bit of PO LU (with Krookodile LU) and I've seen people sweep with Substitute 3 Attacks. Krookodile forces so many switches and to take advantage of that people use Substitute. With Nidoqueen gone Grass-type are at the risen. This is bad news for Krookodile especially Tangrowth, whom shuts Krookodile down. With all these traits Krookodile has, it would be totally manageable due to Priority and Grass-types being present.

    I leave you guys with a question:
    What if Druddigon got Dragon Dance?
  10. ElegantLilligant

    ElegantLilligant

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    What if Lilligant learned Power Gem?

    Well, speaking as one of the biggest Lilligant fanboys in the world, I would still use Sleep Powder. As much as I adore her, she would be nowhere near as useful without Quiver Dance, and Sleep Powder helps her get setup turns.

    Since my Slowking question wasn't that great, I shall pose another:

    What if Venomoth dropped?
  11. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas on good days I am charming as fuck
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    What If Venomoth drops?

    Speaking as a huge Venomoth fan, it would have a huge tier impact. Sitting at a pretty effective base 90 speed tier, having two great abilities (wonder skin and tinted lens), and access to sleep powder, baton pass, and quiver dance it would be threatening as both an offensive set up sweeper (Lilligant with less coverage problems as only Moltres resists its STAB factoring in tinted lens (Haunter and Drifblim do as well, but don't see much usage) and as a quiver passer. I could see Sleep powder, Quiver Dance, Bug Buzz, and Psychic or HP Electric/Fire becoming a huge force. Pokemon like Manetric, Magneton, Galvantula, Typhlosion, and Moltres can all be extremely effective recipients for the quiver pass set. Magneton and Moltres would be the standard recipients, because combined they resist all of Venomoth's weaknesses and both have good bulk. Pokemon like Typhlosion and Manetric who outspeed Venomoth at +1 with a scarf, and threaten with super effective moves would rise in usage, scarf Durant might become a thing. Finally, sap sippers that don't take heavy damage from Bug Buzz would rise in usage (sorry Sawsbuck I still love you). Miltank might even make its way into RU, as it already offers great utility for teams and eats all sleep inducing moves for breakfast. Bouffalant becomes the premier offensive check to Venomoth, and gets some greatly deserved usage. With good prediction however, Venomoth can just Quiver Dance on the switch and pass it to something that enjoys it. Venomoth may still prove to be too much for RU and be booted back to BL2, even though it deserves to be UU by usage.
  12. MX42

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    What if Registeel dropped to RU?

    The steel beast is faltering in UU, and it almost seems he will be forged into RU. His raw defenses mean even Entei and Moltres may not smelt him. He could form a great defensive core with Slowking, not caring about the pesky weeds that threaten the Lord if RU. Would he have an iron grip on the tier, or would he be scrap metal?
  13. Explorer

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    What if Arcanine were in RU?

    Once you factor in Intimidate, it would be the bulkiest Fire-type in RU (Emboar with decent defensive investment comes close). It would be one of only two Fire-types in the tier to have reliable recovery (outside of Moltres) as well. Therefore it would become the Fire-type of choice for many teams, having great all-around stats and Intimidate (or Flash Fire/Justified). It would play a similar role to Entei in that it has Flare Blitz and Extremespeed. Sadly Arcanine does not learn Stone Edge, one of Entei's few advantages over Arcanine (Wild Charge and Intimidate make up for it).

    Possible offensive FWG core: Arcanine/Lillgant/Seismitoad

    Arcanine would soak up physical attacks and cover Seismitoad's Grass weakness and Lilligant's Bug, Ice, and Flying weaknesses. It is also the source of priority. Lilligant would provide sleep support and cover all three of Arcanine's weaknesses. It could also serve as the sweeper. Lastly, Seismitoad could heal itself from Water-type attacks aimed at Arcanine, while providing hazard support and an Electric immunity, completely walling most Lanturn.

    Arcanine (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    -Flare Blitz
    -Extremespeed
    -Wild Charge
    -Morning Sun

    Lilligant (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -Sleep Powder
    -Quiver Dance
    -Petal Dance/Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power Ice

    Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP/248 SpA/8 Spe
    Nature: Modest
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earth Power
    -Hydro Pump/Scald
    -Substitute/Grass Knot

    Possible defensive FWG core: Arcanine/Amoonguss/Lanturn

    Arcanine would once again absorb physical attacks, performing a role similar to defensive Entei but better due to Intimidate. Amoonguss would soak up Water-type attacks easily, provide sleep support, clear stat changes, and overall serve as a great special wall. Finally Lanturn is a cleric, a momentum-keeper, and a burn provider. It can also provide priority if needed to chip off weak Pokemon.

    Arcanine (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
    Nature: Careful/Adamant
    -Flare Blitz
    -Extremespeed
    -Toxic
    -Morning Sun

    Amoonguss (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Spe
    Nature: Calm
    -Spore
    -Clear Smog
    -Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power Ice

    Lanturn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
    Nature: Bold/Relaxed
    -Scald
    -Heal Bell
    -Volt Switch
    -Ice Beam/Signal Beam/Sucker Punch

    What if Lilligant got Power Gem?

    Lilligant is already a fearsome sweeper, but with Power Gem, HP Rock is no longer needed to hit Moltres and Ice-types (among others). Therefore it can run Giga Drain, HP Ice, and Power Gem all together and cover many more foes. Lilligant would need less team support as a result, and its usage would skyrocket, possibly resulting in a ban to UU. I cannot name a single Pokemon in RU besides Escavalier with Sleep Talk that could reliably counter this.
  14. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    What if Lilligant got Power Gem?
    Drop Sleep Powder in a heartbeat, use HP Fire or Ice, and it's ready to rock n roll. Quiver Dance is the reason to use Lilligant in RU, as it's probably the best set up move other than Shell Smash. Rather than use Sleep Powder I'd be using something more like sleep support from Amoonguss or Smeargle for set up or even Memento support from Whimsicott or Uxie. Without Quiver Dance you get checked by anything faster with a SE move, or just screwed by anything that can take a hit or 2 and retaliate such as Druddigon or Emboar. True the opponent has to designate a sleep fodder but Amoonguss or Smeargle already forces them to do this so that shouldn't be an issue. Plus Bouffalant still beats any set, Quiver Dance or Sleep Powder unless it runs HP Figthing. Not broken because it gets 4mss even worse now having to chose between sleep or setup, plus each set still has it's fair share of checks.
  15. grrgrrgrr1000

    grrgrrgrr1000

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    I have a question:
    - How would the Regis fare if their DWA was Analytic?
  16. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    I'll go ahead and answer some of these.

    How would Arcanine fare in the tier?

    This thing would overthrow Entei as the best Fire-type in the tier. Arcanine already has a pretty high Attack stat and some pretty good options, so it would be a powerful force in the tier. It has powerful coverage in CC and Wild Charge, so it would be really difficult to wall overall. It has reliable recovery too, so it can hang around long. Considering it is better than Entei, Arcanine would easily be one of the best Pokemon in the tier.

    What if Druddigon got Dragon Dance?

    Sadly, I don't think this would make much of an impact. While speed boosting is pretty cool, Druddigon's Speed cripples it so insanely that it cannot make good use of the move, as even after one boost a number of Pokemon still outspeed it (Scolipede comes to mind). Druddigon would still be very outclassed as a Dragon Dance user by Fraxure, who has precisely as much power, but a greater Speed tier to make good use of Dragon Dance. Don't get me wrong, Druddigon is an excellent Pokemon, but he wouldn't get much out of Dragon Dance.

    What if Venomoth were RU?

    Venomoth would be the epitome of QuiverPassing. With Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and Baton Pass, Venomoth can incapacitate one opponent, then use the free turns sleep provides to set up multiple Quiver Dances. From there, pass them over to a vicious special attacker such as Sceptile, Moltres, or Mesprit. This would be a powerful force in the tier, so much that you have to plan for it if you plan on succeeding. SubSDSalac Scolipede may rise in usage to take on Venomoth, as it is naturally faster and can hide behind a sub to avoid Sleep Powder, while he can SD+Aqua Tail to nail Venomoth to its death. As previously stated, Bouffalant may come onto a greater rise to power, as may Miltank who may rise into its rightful tiering placement. Venomoth would easily be one of, if not the best Pokemon in RU if it were in the tier.

    What if Registeel dropped to RU?

    Oh boy. This thing's mighty Steel typing and titanic defenses will make Registeel a definitive Pokemon in RU. Registeel would be the quintessential defensive pivot; his mighty bulk and typing allow him to check threats such as Sceptile (to an extent), Slowking, Omastar, Mesprit, and a bunch of others. Registeel would also reliably set up Stealth Rock for many teams, while he can cripple opponents with Thunder Wave. While he lacks offensive stats, he has Seismic Toss to make up for that; he can deal decent damage while serving as a strong wall. Registeel would be excellent on defensive teams too, and will give Steelix some really stiff competition for a teamslot. Overall, Registeel would have an iron grip on RU, and if it dropped, would be sure to make a splash hit.

    What if Lilligant got Power Gem?

    Lilligant would be much more difficult to wall. Grab up boosts to up that power and Speed, and Lilligant with Power Gem would wreck whole teams. Between Giga Drain, HP Fire or Ice, and Power Gem, Lilligant can devastate everything, as Moltres, Entei, and Typhlosion are liable to go down no matter what. HP Fire or Ice wraps it up as now Lilligant can easily handle Ferroseed or Druddigon, respectively. Lilligant may miss out on the utility of Sleep Powder sometimes, though, as it likes the free turns sleep provides to boost itself into the powerhouse it is. Sleep Powder has great utility, and those sleep turns are really good. Still, Power Gem would be a nice boon for Lilligant, and make it more threatening in general.

    Since I oughtta keep this discussion going, I might as well make another theory.

    What if Absol got Moxie?

    Absol is already a powerful sweeper, but Moxie would bring it up a level as a cleaner. Absol could grab up a Sucker Punch on a weakened opponent and power it up as it sweeps. So how would this do?
  17. Explorer

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    Oh right, I forgot that Arcanine had access to Close Combat. That is yet another tool Entei does not have. However Entei does have the less common SubCM set to use. As a result special attacking is something that Entei outclasses Arcanine in doing Arcanine really only has Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Hidden Power (usually Grass), and maybe one or two other moves. On the physical side Arcanine could certainly run Flare Blitz/Close Combat/Extremespeed/Crunch.

    Moxie would be better than any of Absol's current abilities, and would make Absol a top revenge killer (and cleaner). It would basically be a less bulky, more powerful version of Honchkrow with a slightly different typing. It could also run Aerial Ace to take care of Fighting-types that take little damage from most of its other moves, and would be even more powerful after making a successful revenge kill with a different move. The best ways to handle it would be to set up Substitutes on it (Moltres for example) or to try and burn it (but most Pokemon with Will-o-Wisp get slaughtered by Absol). Escavalier usage would shoot up because it easily handles any Absol without Fire Blast. The same goes for Tangrowth, which could put it to sleep or KO it with Focus Blast or a Grass STAB. Pokemon such as Weezing and Misdreavus would also become more popular, because they resist Fighting moves and spread burns, thus making them great partners for Absolon top of type synergy.
  18. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

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    What if Absol got Moxie?
    Ah, Moxie Absol would be really cool and a lot easy to get off than Swords Dance. Similar to the strategy to beat Absol now, the best way would be to play mindgames with subs and whatnot. I don't think playing around Absol, or even using Absol, would be much different than it is now.

    How would Arcanine fare in the tier?
    Arcanine is pretty much a better Entei, standing out with it's handy Close Combat. It can even run a defensive (?) set with Morning Sun. Entei usage would probably plummet, although as previously said, Entei would still have a niche as a special attacker, although maybe Magmortar is better at this? Anyways, Arcanine would probably become the dominant Fire-type in RU.


    What if Lilligant got Power Gem?
    This would be an excellent addition to Lilligant's movepool, eliminating the need to choose between HP Fire and HP Rock, allowing you to run both. The problem is, deciding whether to run both of those moves, or to run Sleep Powder, a staple in Lilligant's moveset. This is personal preference, but I'd rather run both HP Fire and Power Gem. This eliminates so many threats that would threaten either HP Fire Lilli or HP Rock Lilli (now Power Gem.) Again, personal preference, but I'd run another sleeper perhaps like Amoonguss or Smeargle to cover that. Anyways, it would definitely be really threatening to a lot of mons with coverage like that.
  19. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    What if Dusclops was RU?

    Dusclops would be a bitch to take down, and would definitely be the best spinblocker in the tier and a staple on stall teams. For example:

    • 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 87-103 (30.63 - 36.26%)
    • +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 172-203 (60.56 - 71.47%)

    Dusclops has the best chance of beating Kabutops out of all the Ghost-types. and definitely has no trouble stopping Cryogonal. I don't think anything can OHKO it in a common scenario and many Pokemon struggle to even 2HKO it. CB Aggron's Head Smash does 50.7 - 59.5% lol. I feel like Dusclops would be similar to Cresselia in that it just sits there and never gets KOed, though I don't know whether or not it would be broken.

    Didn't post much so I'll leave you with a question:

    What if Drought Vulpix was allowed in RU?

    Especially with hail being present, RU might become a weather war.
  20. Magcargo

    Magcargo That's Onii-sama to you
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    Drought vulpix would completely change the metagame. Chlorphyll abuser and fire types would be dominant. Typhlosion's Choice specs eruption would be so powerful, that it 2HKOs kabutops! Sawsbuck, exeguttor and victreebel would be amazing chlorophyll abusers. All three are very powerful and with the speed boost provided from chlorophyll, they would be able to revenge kill most of the unboosted metagame. Fire types like magmortar, emboar, entei and moltres would become OP in sun becaause of their super powerful fire blast and flare blitz. Hail would basically become nonexistent since hail is pretty crummy compared to sun and most of the abusers are the mediocre ice types. Sun would be metagame changing in RU.

    How would Rotom-H and Porygon-Z fare in the tier?
  21. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    What if Cincinno had Hi Jump Kick?
    Cinccino would truly be a threat with HJK. It could finally be able to hurt steels without opting for the unreliable Technician. It'd probably get it by breeding with Mienshoa or a new 'mon in X/Y.
  22. Dell

    Dell Hi there!
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    With all due respect, I... really don't think a suggestion like this would be plausible enough to actually make a valid discussion about, as the point of the Theorymon thread is to suggest changes that won't necessarily make the specific Pokemon (or Pokemon around the support of this suggestion) particularly overpowered/grossly unhealthy for the metagame or something that just seems unrealistic for the Pokemon to remain in the respective tier, especially considering that there are still quite a few Pokemon that has an absurd amount of support with this suggestion (Chorophyll users or various Fire-type threats, to name a few).
  23. DittoCrow

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    How is that not a valid question? Some people may or may not think that Vulpix with Drought is broken, the whole point of the thread is to discuss that. Vulpix would be no more broken than Zoroark or Venomoth in some opinions. Why not discuss why you think that instead? It's not something like Groudon.

    Especially now that hail is present, this could balance out sun's brokenness. Vulpix is even worse than Snover in stats and typing and would be taken down very easily. There's also the possibility of changing the weather manually more often even with viable Pokemon like Seismitoad and Ludicolo that regularly run Rain Dance. There's also Scarf users that can outspeed the slower Chlorophyll users in sun, and priority users such as Absol and Entei that can revenge kill them. In my opinion sun would most likely be uncompetitive but it is impossible to tell.

    On another note, I'm surprised no one has brought up the formerly RU mons, Cofagrigus, Honchkrow, and Sharpedo. How would they fare if they dropped down into RU again?
  24. Explorer

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    Entei has the advantage of Magmortar of Calm Mind, plus better bulk. Therefore it can use Substitute more easily. If you ask me Magmortar is better for straight-off attacking, while Entei is best for slowly accumulating boosts and then sweeping.

    Also I will verify the viability of defense. It can use Flare Blitz/Close Combat/Morning Sun/Toxic with Intimidate, being bulkier than Magmortar/Typhlosion, and on the physical side, Entei as well due to Intimidate.
  25. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Oh, heres an interesting one

    What if Rhydon recieved Solid Rock, like its evolution Rhyperior?

    Rhydon's already well known around RU for being a powerful and bulky threat that holds a spot as an incredible pokemon even with some potentially crippling 4x weaknesses to Water- and Grass-type moves, both of which are somewhat common in the metagame. With Solid Rock on Rhydon's side, its various weaknesses to Water, Grass, Fighting, Ice, and Ground would be watered down, possibly allowing it to check new threats and more reliably switch in on and beat old ones. For reference, Solid Rock Rhydon would only take 1.5x the amount of damage from moves its 2x weak to, and 3x the amount of damage from moves that its 4x weak to. While 3x damage might still seem a bit intimidating, it would often mean the difference between Rhydon getting OHKO'd and just barely surviving. For example, with Solid Rock as the ability, the standard onsite Rhydon is capable of taking a Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall to the face, something it could never dream of doing now.

    Calc: 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Solid Rock Rhydon: 296-351 (79.35 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    So what do you think? How much would Solid Rock affect the metagame and/or Rhydon's viability, would there be any would be checks or surprise answers to Rhydon that would fail because of the ability? Or teams that use Rhydon that wouldn't before because of the ability? What might possibly increase and/or decrease in usage with Rhydon's new toy?

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