Sand discussion thread

[Rolf]

As soon as BW UU was released, the tier became swamped with game-breakers such as Victini and Kyurem, each bringing with them Drought and Snow Warning. How does Hippopotas and sand fit into this equation?

Very well. Sandstorm's main abusers consist of the Rock-types that both resist the V-creates and can tank them with their naturally high defense, as well as getting the 50% boost of their Special Defense to take Kyurem's repeated assaults. On top of that, many of the other threats in the metagame consist of special-attacking Psychic-types (Mew, Azelf, Celebi) that can be easily beat on with the Special Defense boost.

Stage 4 edit: This thread was made at the very start of BW UU, so many changes have been made over the past three stages. Any edits to the thread will be noted in a similar manner as this.

The one to rule them all...
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Hippopotas@Eviolite - Impish
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
~ Stealth Rock
~ Earthquake
~ Slack Off
~ Roar / Yawn

In old UU, poor Hippo was thought of as mostly a throw-away Pokemon. All new with Eviolite though, this lil Hippo can actually take some hits and shuffle some damage around. Makes a pretty nice lead bar Taunt.

Stage 4 edit: Hippowdon is banned after dropping to UU for a round, so Hippopotas is again the standard choice for sand teams.

Stoutland (Gets his own section because he is a beast)
Stage 4 edit:

Stoutland@Choice Band / Life Orb - Adamant
120 HP / 252 Att / 136 Spe
~ Frustration
~ Wild Charge
~ Crunch
~ Fire Fang / Reversal

While I had my doubts about Stoutland early on in BW UU, I've played with it lately and it really is pretty much a beast of a Pokemon. Choice Band Frustration rips holes through just about everything outside of Rock- and Steel- types. Golurk stands as a great defensive counterpart, as he is immune to Stoutland's only weakness and sports an interesting secondary typing that lets it switch in on a lot of UU's priority moves also. Offensive counterparts include Normal- types that can smash holes through Stoutland. Swellow is my personal favorite choice with access to Facade, Brave Bird, and Endeavor to weaken all of Stoutland's counters enough to finish them off and clean up a weakened team.

Sand abrusiers (abuse, bruiser?)
------------------------

Rhyperior@Leftovers - Adamant
232 HP / 16 Att / 16 Def / 244 SpD - Solid Rock
~ Earthquake
~ Stone Edge
~ Megahorn
~ Substitute / Roar | Dragon Tail

Absolutely monstrous. I was battling earlier today and took 55% from a Life Orb Moltres HP Grass. This guy can take hits and dish them out on a platter. Substitute is nice if you don't feel like predicting, but Roar|Dragon Tail can come in handy if you set up more entry hazards via Omastar, Nidoqueen, or Crustle. Rhydon can be used with Eviolite to get the same Attack and actually has higher defenses, but Leftovers + Solid Rock usually makes Rhyperior the better choice.
------------------------

Omastar@Leftovers - Bold / Calm
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def - Shell Armor
~ Spikes
~ Toxic Spikes
~ Hydro Pump
~ Knock Off / Haze

--OR--

Omastar@Life Orb / White Herb - Timid / Modest
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Att? - Swift Swim
~ Shell Smash
~ Surf / Hydro Pump
~ Ice Beam
~ Hidden Power [Grass]?

Great setup for all your entry hazard needs. 358 SpD and 316 Defense with a Bold nature makes Spiking a breeze, and Omastar's typing allows it to switch into things like Victini (and other fire types) with ease. Team reveal makes Toxic Spiking even easier and becomes important for any team with Chansey problems.

Stage 4 edit: I added a Shell Smash set just because it's always nice to have that Special Defense boost to set up a really strong sweeper on weak, especially resisted, special attacks.
------------------------
Stage 4 edit:

Cradily@Leftovers - Careful
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def - Suction Cups / Storm Drain
~ Curse
~ Seed Bomb / Rock Slide
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk

Still runs really well in new UU. After playing EXTENSIVELY with Cradily in DPPt UU, I can safely say Cradily is still an amazing answer to most of your special walling needs on any sand team in BW. I always run Seed Bomb over Rock Slide for 100% accuracy and just in-general doing more damage to people that otherwise will outdamage you (Fighting- types). I also usually chose Suction Cups over Storm Drain since the rest of my team usually handles rain quite well, but if I'm seeing a lot of rain on the ladder or just am having problems with it in general, I make the ability change.

Other notables include:
Regirock (Curse / Support)
Shuckle (Power Swap / Acupressure)
Crustle (Spiker / Shell Smash)
Aerodactyl (SubRoost Pressure)

Sand Partners!
------------------------

Nidoqueen@Leftovers - Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD - Poison Point
~ Toxic Spikes
~ Earth Power
~ Venoshock
~ Roar

General utility if you're having a bunch of Heracross or Hitmontop problems. Venoshock becomes super powerful once Toxic Spikes become active. Immunity to sandstorm makes Nidoqueen shine as a sandstall supporter.
------------------------

Golurk@Leftovers - Adamant
208 HP / 252 Att / 48 Spe - Iron Fist
~ Substitute / Rest
~ Focus Punch / Hammer Arm
~ Earthquake
~ Shadow Punch

EVs are just random (like most of this threads lol) but overall is a great Pokemon for sand. Immune, hits hard, and most importantly acts as a spin blocker and at the same time a Fighting immune. Great check to fighters like Heracross and Hitmontop as well as a decent check to Cobalion also. That and he learns Fly. What a boss.
------------------------
Other notables:
Chansey (Wish, Aromatherapy, essentially immune to Special Attacks)
Deoxys-D (Spikes, Fighting resist)
Slowbro (Water resist, Fight resist, Regen)
Milotic (see above)
Celebi (near-perfect synergy with Rock-types, Nasty Plot cleaner)

Now it's time for your input!

 

[Marioman07]

Hey, i don't know if this would work well , but I think onix would work somewhat well in sand because of Eviolite and absurdly high natural defense, as well as the sandstorm special defense boost. It's quite obviously sub-par sometimes, but it can take hits, shuffle the opponent's team, set up stealth rock, run a Curse/EQ set, etc.

 

[Ray Jay]

Sigilyph can be used almost like Reuniclus in OU, and also helps beat a lot of stall teams in the metagame right now. Usually a simple @ Flame Orb with Psycho Shift / Roost / Cosmic Power / Stored Power gets the job done, and I find the EVs can be tweaked into Defense or Special Defense, depending on what the team needs.

 

[Virizion]

Hey, i don't know if this would work well , but I think onix would work somewhat well in sand because of Eviolite and absurdly high natural defense, as well as the sandstorm special defense boost. It's quite obviously sub-par sometimes, but it can take hits, shuffle the opponent's team, set up stealth rock, run a Curse/EQ set, etc.

I've seen defensive Eviolite Onyx in Japanese Battle Videos, he doesn't take physical attacks too well considering he has more HP/Defense than Shuckle (after Eviolite)

 

[Lou Cypher]

I'd still use Stoutland as a cleaner. Might not be THE most impressive sweeper, but gets the job done. Let's hope Sandslash is released soon, between Swords Dance and the same movepool as Excadrill, he's a lot more threatening.

 

[Gerard]

How about, you know... CRADILY, you know, the mutant ancient flower that its a nightmage to take down and can curse/rest herself to death, and because of incredibly awesome defenses and great typing makes her literally unkillable if she has grabed a couple or courses, then just rest/recover, you can't roar her and with bullet seed/rock slide she can sweep with ease

 

[Rolf]

While Cradily did very well last gen (I topped leaderboard with it...), the secondary Grass typing is an absolute curse (no pun intended) for it. Weak to Ice, Neutrality to Fire, still hit f hard by Fighting types, weak to Bug... it's just in a bad position at the moment. If some expected bans happen though, I'll be looking forward to abusing Cradily once again, but at this point I'm going with Regirock as a CurseTalker over it.

 

[aussieman000]

I've seen defensive Eviolite Onyx in Japanese Battle Videos, he doesn't take physical attacks too well considering he has more HP/Defense than Shuckle (after Eviolite)

He doesn't take physical attacks too well but he has more HP/Def? Makes no sense to me. But I have to agree 35 base HP sucks, and 45 Atk/SpD suck even with Curse/Sand boosts, respectively.

However, Regirock anyone? He hits 364/436/492 in Sand, has similar resists to Rhyperior and has has a decent enough Atk/movepool to hurt things after Curse. As far as supporting goes he relies on Restalking to become an effective wall, but can tank a lot of unboosted neutral and resisted hits and cripple switch-ins with status. Lastly, despite the nerf Explosion is still an incredibly powerful move.

EDIT: Ninja'd. I take way too long to write a post.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Speaking of Regirock, is this viable enough to put in the sand abusers list?:
Regirock
-Curse
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake/Drain Punch
-Rest/*insert coverage move here*
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk or Def/252 SpD
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body

 

[AJC]

no mention of stoutland who has sand rush (and immunity to sand)?

 

[SJCrew]

Stoutland is just amazing. He did a lot more than I expected he would, considering he has Normal STAB and only base 100 Att, but he's also pretty damn bulky and a top-notch Pursuit trapper. I'm not surprised a lot of players are overlooking him, since he's really just a canine with a silly design, but all of that power combined with Sand Rush is nothing to fuck with. Of course, there's trouble when Rhyperior or Cobalion enter the ring, but other than that, he's pretty hard to stop.

 

[Adonzo]

golem can be an annoying tank once Sand Veil is released - while regirock and rhyperior have better defenses, neither of them has 20% evasion

 

[Marioman07]

I've seen defensive Eviolite Onyx in Japanese Battle Videos, he doesn't take physical attacks too well considering he has more HP/Defense than Shuckle (after Eviolite)

Ah i gotcha haha. it was just a thought ;). But on topic, im definitely going to try out a sandstorm team.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Earth Power
- Thunder
- Fire Blast

Much better Nidoqueen set.

 

[Virizion]

He doesn't take physical attacks too well but he has more HP/Def? Makes no sense to me. But I have to agree 35 base HP sucks, and 45 Atk/SpD suck even with Curse/Sand boosts, respectively.

However, Regirock anyone? He hits 364/436/492 in Sand, has similar resists to Rhyperior and has has a decent enough Atk/movepool to hurt things after Curse. As far as supporting goes he relies on Restalking to become an effective wall, but can tank a lot of unboosted neutral and resisted hits and cripple switch-ins with status. Lastly, despite the nerf Explosion is still an incredibly powerful move.

EDIT: Ninja'd. I take way too long to write a post.

His typing is probably why. The move used was Earthquake (can't remember who used it though)

@ SJCrew
I agree, I use Stoutland in Random Matchup Triples, and he hits fairly hard and has alot of HP, but I really wish it got Slack Off (which I always thought it had). Although a pseudo-Prankster Thunder Wave is nice in the Sand, while playing Triples.

 

[Meff]

The foe's Suicune used Scald!
It's super effective!
Rhyperior lost 189 HP! (44% of its health)

Even though Suicune isn't exactly strong unboosted, that's mildy impressive for a STAB attack it's 4x weak to :P The problem is Rhyperior really needs hazard support in order to get KOs due to barely any attack investment and no Life Orb/Swords Dance.

I'm running Sub/Focus Punch/EQ/Shadow Punch Golurk with 252HP/252Atk to some success too, as well as providing a much-needed Fighting immunity he has the power to score a few kills in his own right, with Lefties Focus Punch does 78-92% to 252/252 Bold Eviolite Chansey, LO guarantees the OHKO.

Another good mon on sand teams is Storm Drain Gastrodon, who can switch into the common water attacks thrown at sand teams for a free Special Attack boost.

Also, I absolutely love Stoutland.

 

[Arcticblast]

This is just theorymon, but what about Eviolite Rhydon? It has better defenses than Rhyperior (in or out of Sand), the same Speed, and still great Attack.

 

[ToastTyrant13]

This is just theorymon, but what about Eviolite Rhydon? It has better defenses than Rhyperior (in or out of Sand), the same Speed, and still great Attack.

I have actually seen that in action, but lack of recover outside of Rest and poor supporting movepool outside of SR and Roar is a little offsetting. Not to say it's not good, just not the first thing to look for when considering a wall.

 

[Benlisted]

Screw the critics, I'm going to try a Curse Cradily with tons of support to take the attacks its weak to. RestTalk seems less attractive in an offensively oriented meta, so perhaps ChestoRest will be my set of choice. Wonder how much a Rock Slide does to a Vulpix on the way in...

Also, looking forward to trying out Cacturne. As a Sub/SDer last gen it was hilariously frustrating and pretty effective, so hopefully it'll work out now too.

 

[jle1076]

I have actually seen that in action, but lack of recover outside of Rest and poor supporting movepool outside of SR and Roar is a little offsetting. Not to say it's not good, just not the first thing to look for when considering a wall.

Coverage? Its gets the Edge/Quake combo lol

 

[SupremeDirt]

Flygon beats it, though.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Is Eviolite the best item for Hippopotas? There could be some good Focus Sash and Leftovers sets?

 

[ZetoTarken]

The Eviolite boost is pretty significant, to the point where you won't get 1hko'd outside of SE attacks. Additionally it will boost your defenses to the point where you take less damage than you would recover from Leftovers.

 

[Meff]

With Eviolite Hippopotas can survive CB Adamant 252atk/252spe Victini V-Create (it takes 67-78% in Sand, sadly it does 99.7% minimum in Sun) and does 72% minimum back to it with EQ after the defence drop from V-Create, OHKOing with Rocks and Sandstorm damage.

wat

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Well, I remember in UU in Gen IV, some people used Focus Sash to help guarantee Hippo could survive a round and put up Stealth Rock. And some people adopted some sort of Leftovers/Protect/Yawn/Stealh Rock strategy, which basically revolves around you stalling out turns for ages.

Obviously, there was no Eviolite back then, so it was mainly a case of getting a Pokemon with dreadful stats and seeing if you could do anything vaguely useful with it apart from the Sandstream.

However, I'm a bit concerned that people are going to use Eviolite on every single NFE, when it might not always be the best option. In OU, a lot of NFEs use Eviolite 100% of the time because that is the only way they're not outclassed by their evolutions. However, in UU, some of them aren't outclassed anymore, so don't have to use Eviolite to have a reason to be used.

Not saying Eviolite is a bad item though, of course!! It's definitely worth using.