Sand discussion thread

[Cloud 8]

I totoally fogot Virizion was OU here. which makes little sense considering Victini isnt but thats a discussion for another thread. Roselia has really great special bulk although in sandstorm the lack of lefties really hurts so I will try roserade too. I also tried lairon and it has not been able to make a move; not because of typing or lack of bulk but hax. Ive missed toxic 3 times in a row and couldnt even connect with head smash. If that didnt happen I would either be flinched, critted or parahaxed to death. Ive been running max special bulk and head smash toxic roar and substiitute just becaus he forces a lot of switches but I will probably take sub off due to lack of recovery.

I actually did mean whirelepede... Ive seen it used once and has really great bulk. Although I havent really considered Scolipede just because Im looking for a more bulky spiker. Also ferroseed is definetely an option but I dont want to m,uch of fire weakness and its really ugly. My sandstorm team has basically beocome a team full of tests.

Edit: I am currenty using Cacnea as a spiker. Cacnea! its just so cute!

 

[Downf4ll]

Why Roselia when Roserade is available?

Aw shit, my bad.I meant roserade, I just wasn't thinking straight :P

@Cloud8 I don't know, my favourite spikers have always been fast. I mean bulk is nice too but I've always set up 3 layers with things like accelgor, froslass and deo-S (in OU). Roserade is probably the only bulky spiker I've ever used to be honest.

Roserade would also be a spiker I'd use on a sand team. The double Ice weakness sucks but the grass/water/fighting resist is great.

You're right about Lairon though. I used Aggron in OU for a while (it worked so much better than you think it would. Bring it into something like Ferrothorn, Blissey or even cocky reuniclus users wanting to CM to +6, set up a Rock Polish, and proceed to OHKO shit with Head Smash/EQ/Fire Punch) and head smash would miss every switch in, for some reason. And that sucks much harder than you think, since Head Smash usually OHKOs anything people would bring in.


What do you guys think of claydol as a spinner/hazards as opposed to donphan on a sand team? You lose some attacking power but he's better defensively than donphan is, so it works for a balanced/defensive team. You could also set up screens if you're willing to have that much setup for a hyper offensive sandstorm team.

 

[Cloud 8]

Honestly I have never used donphan. I also rarely use claydole except if Im bird spamming. I just generally think the idea of spinners on sandstorm teams are a waste unless youre running moltres or something. I understand that things like claydol and donphan are bulky too but thayre basically the same as hippopotas with rapid spin. Hippopotas has on par bulk I beilieve so ii just seems like a waste of a teamslot. When adding ANOTHER ground type to a team that has a problem with water and grass types anyway. Most sandstorm pokemon also resist stealth rock and apply enough pressure to most spikes and toxic spikes layers anyway. I could understand using a poison type though to absorb toxic spikes though.

 

[Downf4ll]

Yea I guess you're right. Although what you said makes Roserade an even more appealing option; I always feel satisfied getting both SR (hippo) and 3 layers of spikes on the field, don't you?

I'd love to abuse something like (RAMPAGING THEORYMON AHEAD) specs/scarf Rotom-C and Band Flygon. Just keep U-turning and volt changing. A combination of hazards, Sandstorm and those momentum moves will whittle your opponent away while they try to switch to an appropriate counter, only to fail. This also ensures they take more damage switching than you do, which is great. You could have roar on your hippo for even more hazards abuse, and then a more defensive pivot (Slowbro maybe?) to keep the momentum going in case they catch on. Then a sweeper for obvious reasons. So Roserade/Hippopotas/Rotom-C/Flygon/Slowbro/Sweeper (maybe Stoutland, since he punishes switches even more?). Badass Sandstorm team right there, obviously.

Oh wow, uhh, I think it's clear that at this point I've exhausted my idea supply. Anyone else care to share any useful sandstorm ideas? O-o

 

[NatGeo]

Curse Cradily is probably worth a mention, since it soaks up Water-type attacks which most other sand-immune Pokemon can't stomach. Not to mention it can tank quite a few hits after some Curses, Rest the damage away, and then attack with Seed Bomb or Rock Slide...

Yeah given the right support Cradily is an absolute pain to take down

 

[breh]

personally, cradily is inferior to regirock. regirock doesn't need boosts to do something. its rock slides are rather potent and its defences are inherently high. frankly, it doesn't matter that it can take water attacks if it can't do anything with them anyway.

 

[Jaetheho]

lol no way. i sweep 3/4 of games with cradily. so funny. get rid of the fighters (mostly cobalion) and sweep

 

[TickingSeedotBomb]

Even Cobalion will have trouble with Cradily after a few curses unless it carries Sacred Sword. but Cobalion really is a general pain to some sandstorm teams so I make sure to carry Fire Blast Slowbro. FB Slowbro can also handle hail teams well and regenerator is beast!

Now, as for Cradily versus Regirock. It all depends on what you want. Cradily has way better abilities. Suction Cups, which means you can't just whirlwind away the curses. and Storm Drain which makes you can awesome answer to water types but you can't use resttalk with Storm Drain (can you?)

Regirock on the other hand, is cool :p (jk. opinions) Regirock has monster defense so it can afford to invest in all special defense whereas Cradily wants a good amount of defense. Regirock also has more attack and it can somehow resttalk also. However, Regirock's abilities are kinda lame. It can be whirlwinded away, and it sadly didn't get Solid Rock from DW (though it wouldn't be released yet so that doesn't matter.) His typing is also arguably inferior. Regirock is weak to water and ground whereas Cradily is neutral to those. Though Cradily gains a weakness to ice.

It all depends on what you need. If you don't care about phazing then Regirock is your man! but if you don't like the water or ground weakness and want the extra SpD / suction cups. Then Cradily is a fun and annoying pokemon to try out.

For me however, I prefer Cradily. So many people try to phaze it. It's hilarious when angry battlers call me a (BAN ME PLEASE) just because they don't run haze and instead go for whilwind or other phazing moves.

 

[Jaetheho]

everyone just assumes cradily carries rock slide. so one time, an eviolite marshtomp.... lol i know.... came in on me and started cursing up. i cursed along side with it, got to +6 and BAM. seed bombed to death.

 

[Downf4ll]

Yea cradily is a boss, that's for sure. I've never even considered regirock, despite the fact that even it's name practically screams "SANDSTORM SUPPORT" (regiROCK). I can totally see a curse set wrecking shit though.

Well, all the defensive mons are really cool and all, but what offensive mons work well in sandstorm? I was thinking stuff like Escavalier (good check to hail teams), Gigalith, and Stoutland (obviously).

Also, someone mentioned Manectric a few pages ago, and that seems like a good idea actually. Sand teams don''t really have a good fire move user (Goddamn it Camerupt), and elec is a great type with things like Milotic and co. running about.

 

[Cloud 8]

Ive been having great success with the stoutlurk combo and am actually thinking of posting an rmt on it. (collaboration anyone :p). It basically functions on using residual damage to soften counters, punching holes with golurk and cleaning with stoutland. Half the time i dont even have to bring out either of them as my eviolite omanyte (yes omanyte, not omastar) gets up spikes and toxic sopikes easily while my zapdos substalls toxic damage and empoleon counters all my threats and phazes

EDIT: Knock off should really be used more on stalling sandstorm teams, anything without a instant recovery move and resistance to sandstorm would die in 16 turns and stops eviolite users (chansey) from being overly annoying.

 

[TickingSeedotBomb]

Other good choices for pokemon are Carracosta and Omastar as shell smashers I'm sure. as soon as they set up they can destroy a lot of pokemon.

 

[Downf4ll]

Carra sucks kind of badly, unfortunately. Even at +2 it isn't outspeeding much, and Aqua jet is just too weak outside of rain (which you can't exactly put onto a sand team).

Omastar is cool though. He needs a better special movepool but with what he has he's pretty good.

 

[Cloud 8]

Omastar is cool though. He needs a better special movepool but with what he has he's pretty good.

As far as Im concerned Omastar has all the special move pool it needs with Ice beam, Surf and HP Grass/Electric It sucks that it doesnt have the 4 move though.

 

[aussieman000]

As far as Im concerned Omastar has all the special move pool it needs with Ice beam, Surf and HP Grass/Electric It sucks that it doesnt have the 4 move though.

What he has is pretty decent, but I guess he means it'd be nice to have a useable secondary STAB and grass/electric moves not named Hidden Power.

 

[TickingSeedotBomb]

Carra sucks kind of badly, unfortunately. Even at +2 it isn't outspeeding much, and Aqua jet is just too weak outside of rain (which you can't exactly put onto a sand team).

Omastar is cool though. He needs a better special movepool but with what he has he's pretty good.

yea I agree with that. Carracosta isn't all that great but it's got solid bulk and solid rock to help it setup a shell smash. it also outspeeds I think, Raikou (I know it outspeeds Archeops. not so sure if it outspeeds max speed Raikou) and it gets about 658 attack with max ev's on attack and a jolly nature. it just has problems with defensivly bulky grass types. but honestly, I'm kinda surprised it has such a low usage in RU, though, this isn't the thread for that.

 

[Forte.EXE]

What he has is pretty decent, but I guess he means it'd be nice to have a useable secondary STAB and grass/electric moves not named Hidden Power.

Rock STAB doesn't really hit anything that Water doesn't. Nothing important, anyway. Everything that Surf/Hydro Pump can't cover is easily made up with in HP Grass (fuk Quagsire) and Ice Beam.

 

[Rishidafishi]

Why no mention of Stoutland (it gets sand rush) It's a UU version of excadrill and can run a devastating Choice band set

 

[CrystaLightning]

Uhh... Rishidafishi, Stoutland has been mentioned many times in this thread. It's okay, just be a little more careful next time! ^_^

Also, has Sandslash's DW abiltiy been released yet? I really do not know anything about the DW releases, sorry.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Sandslash isn't released yet.

 

[Tenodera]

yea I agree with that. Carracosta isn't all that great but it's got solid bulk and solid rock to help it setup a shell smash. it also outspeeds I think, Raikou (I know it outspeeds Archeops. not so sure if it outspeeds max speed Raikou) and it gets about 658 attack with max ev's on attack and a jolly nature. it just has problems with defensivly bulky grass types. but honestly, I'm kinda surprised it has such a low usage in RU, though, this isn't the thread for that.

Curse Carracosta can actually be really hard to kill in SS. Curse + Aqua Jet works alright, and it's surprising since Shell Smash is so much more popular.

 

[Cloud 8]

I have seen a rise in F/W/G cores lately. I assume this is players from OU testing out UU and just using soemthing basic but it makes the life of Sandstorm teams hard as its hard to have a good counter to grass types on it. This especially true for offensive teams that dont un toxic or toxic spikes. I have been using Mandibuzz with a nice amount of special bulk to combat said grass types. How does everyone else combat F/W/G cores on a sandstorm team especiallly if it is ofensive?

 

[Strogues]

My SS team runs a mixed tini and a yanmega but i haven't really come across any good F/W/G cores, Mandibuzz seems pretty effective though but I found it just doesn't respond well to toxic (suprise huh). But mixed tini tears stuff apart and no body exspects it. Too bad thunder gets reduced to like 50% accuracy in SS

 

[Forsety]

Mandibuzz seems pretty effective though but I found it just doesn't respond well to toxic (suprise huh).

Just pack a Cleric or Taunt and you're set, Mandibuzz's 80 base speed isn't just for show you know, it screws over most of the Toxic reliant stuff.

Curse Cradily is probably worth a mention, since it soaks up Water-type attacks which most other sand-immune Pokemon can't stomach. Not to mention it can tank quite a few hits after some Curses, Rest the damage away, and then attack with Seed Bomb or Rock Slide...

Yeah given the right support Cradily is an absolute pain to take down

And I can't even begin to second this enough.

Cradily is the king of UU Sandstorm and can and will utterly run through your team, with the proper support I've seen this thing utterly overpower stuff even in OU irregardless whether you pack effective moves against it or not and smash through dedicated walls simply because he is not phazeable. Chances are if you're not running Cradily on your Sand team you're doing something wrong, whether its a Curse variation or a stall variation it will be an absolute nightmare to take down.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

CB Stoutland's Frustration has an insane amount of power.

Also, LV 1 Aron. Pure trollishness right there. So far, I'm only stopped by stuff like Hail and SubRoost Zapdos, but other than that I can usually pull out a surprise sweep on unexpecting opponents.