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Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: May 2015
- Thread starter Antar
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I don't know if Mamoswine is actually getting banned in UU, sure it is great and has amazing STAB combo but it sadly has a few flaws to prevent it from abusing it's tools to it's fullest like lack of setup moves and bad speed. I'm more surprised it actually fell down when people won't stop bitching about Landorus >_>
But whatever, Mamoswine will just keep on doing what it does and keep on leading the party and revenge killing ^^
But whatever, Mamoswine will just keep on doing what it does and keep on leading the party and revenge killing ^^
Question. Gallade dropped to UU, does this mean Mega Gallade is allowed there as well?
No. Galladite is banned
No. Galladite is banned to BL, but you can use Gallade's base form.
No, it was banned just before it rose to OU, so it remains banned now.
Now that I have time to look more carefully I can do a full Analysis
Tornadus-Therian moved from BL to OU Expected and Good Tier Shift.
Scrafty moved from UU to RU Expected and is not going BL2
Gallade moved from OU to UU Mega goes to BL and Normal Gallade becomes the next Pinsir
Kingdra moved from UU to RU So BL2. It can sweep with many sets.
Mandibuzz moved from OU to UU Not expecting BL. It also brings another Defogger to UU.
Flygon moved from UU to RU Staying in RU
Alakazam moved from UU to OU HOW It gained usage during the AEGISLASH SUSPECT A GHOST STEEL TYPE! Should go back...
Haunter moved from PU to NU Gets rid of decent PU threat. Nothing major for NU here.
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU Heliodisk was rising in UU usage so it was expected.
Dragalge moved from BL2 to UU Does nothing since it BL2 anyway. But clears out that BL2
Mamoswine moved from OU to UU May be considered powerful. But it is horrible against Bulky Waters so it could stay UU.
Hippowdon moved from UU to OU Saw alot of Hippowdon lately so this makes sense.
Fletchinder moved from RU to NU Fletchinder staying NU unless if BL3 shall be called Ban 3 Fire Types Tier.
Sigilyph moved from BL3 to RU Making BL3 Mono-Fire.
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU The lack of Fairy in UU made a Fairy bump happen eventually. However it could have been great against Scrafty...
Camerupt moved from NU to RU Technically also BL3 before tier shift.
Magneton moved from RU to NU Could be an interesting pokemon for NU.
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU Automatic weather is a no in RU right now.
Doublade moved from RU to UU Bulky Pokemon sent to UU.
Cresselia moved from RU to UU ^
Slowking moved from RU to UU ^
Noivern moved from UU to RU Specs Noivern FTW!!! Staying RU!
Tauros moved from BL4 to NU Clearing out that Ban-List
Kabutops moved from RU to NU Kabutops back to NU but weaker now without those Fire Types.
Seismitoad moved from NU to RU Seismitoad 4 Kabutops sort of. Now Seismitoad and Gastrodon are competing for that Water Ground slot on some teams.
Prinplup moved from PU to NU Wait what? Piplup for Ubers! I guess Water is a good type but never expected that.
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU More Stall based stuff up to UU.
Pinsir moved from RU to NU Pinsir is now in it's home tier and a god in Tier Shift.
I know a few these are questionable since it is Day 1 after shift.
Tornadus-Therian moved from BL to OU Expected and Good Tier Shift.
Scrafty moved from UU to RU Expected and is not going BL2
Gallade moved from OU to UU Mega goes to BL and Normal Gallade becomes the next Pinsir
Kingdra moved from UU to RU So BL2. It can sweep with many sets.
Mandibuzz moved from OU to UU Not expecting BL. It also brings another Defogger to UU.
Flygon moved from UU to RU Staying in RU
Alakazam moved from UU to OU HOW It gained usage during the AEGISLASH SUSPECT A GHOST STEEL TYPE! Should go back...
Haunter moved from PU to NU Gets rid of decent PU threat. Nothing major for NU here.
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU Heliodisk was rising in UU usage so it was expected.
Dragalge moved from BL2 to UU Does nothing since it BL2 anyway. But clears out that BL2
Mamoswine moved from OU to UU May be considered powerful. But it is horrible against Bulky Waters so it could stay UU.
Hippowdon moved from UU to OU Saw alot of Hippowdon lately so this makes sense.
Fletchinder moved from RU to NU Fletchinder staying NU unless if BL3 shall be called Ban 3 Fire Types Tier.
Sigilyph moved from BL3 to RU Making BL3 Mono-Fire.
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU The lack of Fairy in UU made a Fairy bump happen eventually. However it could have been great against Scrafty...
Camerupt moved from NU to RU Technically also BL3 before tier shift.
Magneton moved from RU to NU Could be an interesting pokemon for NU.
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU Automatic weather is a no in RU right now.
Doublade moved from RU to UU Bulky Pokemon sent to UU.
Cresselia moved from RU to UU ^
Slowking moved from RU to UU ^
Noivern moved from UU to RU Specs Noivern FTW!!! Staying RU!
Tauros moved from BL4 to NU Clearing out that Ban-List
Kabutops moved from RU to NU Kabutops back to NU but weaker now without those Fire Types.
Seismitoad moved from NU to RU Seismitoad 4 Kabutops sort of. Now Seismitoad and Gastrodon are competing for that Water Ground slot on some teams.
Prinplup moved from PU to NU Wait what? Piplup for Ubers! I guess Water is a good type but never expected that.
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU More Stall based stuff up to UU.
Pinsir moved from RU to NU Pinsir is now in it's home tier and a god in Tier Shift.
I know a few these are questionable since it is Day 1 after shift.
Damn, Trev barely missed going to RU by only about 0.075%. That's impressive (For an unviable Pokemon that is). (All we need is it and Milotic and we should be done with the bad UU mons going to RU)
As for other stuff, I never expected Fletch or Mag to come back to NU. (Expected Kabu though) And speaking of RU, man that's a lot of changes. (I really want to try and Flygon the most because of it being a Defogger that gives no craps about hazards and has decent offensive presence and recovery; Makes up for the loss of Gligar (Since Mandi came to UU Gligar's likely going to go back down again though))
As for other stuff, I never expected Fletch or Mag to come back to NU. (Expected Kabu though) And speaking of RU, man that's a lot of changes. (I really want to try and Flygon the most because of it being a Defogger that gives no craps about hazards and has decent offensive presence and recovery; Makes up for the loss of Gligar (Since Mandi came to UU Gligar's likely going to go back down again though))
Wandering Wobbuffet
formerly Based Honker
Well after playing the new RU for a bit an interesting mon has shown to be very good with all of the latest dragons. Who is it you may ask. It is lapras. AV lapras has some very impressive special bulk easily taking a draco from specs noivern and OHKOing it with freeze dry. It has also proven to be a good kingdra counter due to the fact that one of it's abilities is shell armor (which destroys critdra) and another being water absorb (which destroys swift swim sweeper sets). DD kingdra can be a problem if it gets too many DDs up but overall lapras seems pretty good. Against flygon there is no doubt in my mind if freeze dry OHKOs. However I will have to calc if banded stone edge from flygon OHKOs lapras.
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 328-388 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Flygon Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 360-424 (89.5 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Not sure what spread you actually use though, but both OHKO after rocks, and Adamant Band sometimes does without it.
Never thought of using Lapras tbh. Try pitching it to the RU folks here if you like. Normally I'd think this would be way out of left field, but with the massive changes in the RU lineup, just about anything could happen now.
Here might not be the place to question this but anyway:
Why isn't Ubers treated like a tier?
In the ban of M-Ray it was said that Ubers was a tier, and not the ban-list.
Shouldn't Ubers be a real tier? Where pokemon like Klefki and such would rise to it because of usage? And pokemon banned banned from OU but not Ubers by usage be in a tier between OU and Ubers, maybe BL0?
I understand if a moderator wants to delete this comment. But plz, give me an answer, or tell me at least who I should ask.
Why isn't Ubers treated like a tier?
In the ban of M-Ray it was said that Ubers was a tier, and not the ban-list.
Shouldn't Ubers be a real tier? Where pokemon like Klefki and such would rise to it because of usage? And pokemon banned banned from OU but not Ubers by usage be in a tier between OU and Ubers, maybe BL0?
I understand if a moderator wants to delete this comment. But plz, give me an answer, or tell me at least who I should ask.
Ubers is a tier now, but it's independent of the other usage-based tiers. Pokemon cannot rise to Ubers or fall to OU by usage.
Ubers is a very centralized tier, and the small trickle of pokemon that actually drop from Ubers to OU would almost certainly get banned. It's just a lose/lose proposition. Ubers gains nothing from it, while OU just gives up perfectly good pokemon. Looking at the Uber stats for April, OU would lose the Latis, Ferrothorn, Sableye, Gengar and Klefki. Every tier would lose Ditto. In addition, NU would lose Kangaskhan and UU would lose Lucario on a technicality because Ubers by usage would be different than Ubers as a ban list. Maybe one day the power creep in OU will reach a point where there's no longer a clear distinction between what is and isn't an Uber and a usage-based approach will start to make more sense, but as of right now that's limited to a handful of pokemon like Aegislash that can be suspected on an individual basis.
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Relaxed Dedenne
I COULD BE BANNED!
Wow What did NU do to you, Kabooty is goood :[ and one other thing charizard would be NU if it worked like that
Relaxed Dedenne
I COULD BE BANNED!
with NU having magneton we can use Lord Stunfisk
The following is my opinion on each tier shift: Tornadus-Therian moved from BL to OU: I honestly don't really care
Scrafty moved from UU to RU: I feel like Scrafty kinda was RU material from the start (not good, yet not bad), so I'm pretty happy with this one.
Gallade moved from OU to UU: I don't know why people used it in OU since its mega is the only part of Gallade that should've ever been OU.
Kingdra moved from UU to RU: I don't know why Kingdra moved down, but until it becomes BL2, RU is going to have a lot of fun with it.
Mandibuzz moved from OU to UU: I just want to see how well Mandibuzz will function in UU before I make any harsh comments.
Flygon moved from UU to RU: Meh. I think Flygon will be much more used in RU with much of its competition out of the way.
Alakazam moved from UU to OU: This won't last long. But for the meantime, welcome back Alakazam!
Haunter moved from PU to NU: I'm confused about this, but then again I don't play NU.
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU: No comment.
Dragalge moved from BL2 to UU: Kinda Expected.
Mamoswine moved from OU to UU: See ya in BL, Mamoswine!
Hippowdon moved from UU to OU: Finally, I've been waiting forever.
Fletchinder moved from RU to NU: #Birdspam NU
Sigilyph moved from BL3 to RU: I don't care.
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU: Well, there goes that RU strategy I've been brewing up.
Camerupt moved from NU to RU: Hugely expected.
Magneton moved from RU to NU:I don't care
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU: I've never seen Abomasnow in UU, then again I don't play that often, but still!
Doublade moved from RU to UU: Sorta Expected
Cresselia moved from RU to UU: R.I.P RU Calm Mind Wars
Slowking moved from RU to UU: No comment.
Noivern moved from UU to RU: Sorta expected for me, Noivern wasn't ever that stellar of a UU Pokemon.
Tauros moved from BL4 to NU: I don't care
Kabutops moved from RU to NU: Largely expected due to Moltres ban.
Seismitoad moved from NU to RU: No comment.
Prinplup moved from PU to NU: PU is going to run out of viable Pokemon if we don't get some Pokemon back next tier shift.
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU: I don't care.
Pinsir moved from RU to NU: Well, there goes any resemblance of usage that Pinsir ever had.
EDIT: I had an idea the other day. What if we had separate usage stats for Pokemon and their mega evolutions. We could do this by counting any Pokemon holding its mega stone as its mega evolution. This would stop confusion from things like Beedrill being UU just because its mega is really good.
Scrafty moved from UU to RU: I feel like Scrafty kinda was RU material from the start (not good, yet not bad), so I'm pretty happy with this one.
Gallade moved from OU to UU: I don't know why people used it in OU since its mega is the only part of Gallade that should've ever been OU.
Kingdra moved from UU to RU: I don't know why Kingdra moved down, but until it becomes BL2, RU is going to have a lot of fun with it.
Mandibuzz moved from OU to UU: I just want to see how well Mandibuzz will function in UU before I make any harsh comments.
Flygon moved from UU to RU: Meh. I think Flygon will be much more used in RU with much of its competition out of the way.
Alakazam moved from UU to OU: This won't last long. But for the meantime, welcome back Alakazam!
Haunter moved from PU to NU: I'm confused about this, but then again I don't play NU.
Heliolisk moved from RU to UU: No comment.
Dragalge moved from BL2 to UU: Kinda Expected.
Mamoswine moved from OU to UU: See ya in BL, Mamoswine!
Hippowdon moved from UU to OU: Finally, I've been waiting forever.
Fletchinder moved from RU to NU: #Birdspam NU
Sigilyph moved from BL3 to RU: I don't care.
Slurpuff moved from RU to UU: Well, there goes that RU strategy I've been brewing up.
Camerupt moved from NU to RU: Hugely expected.
Magneton moved from RU to NU:I don't care
Abomasnow moved from RU to UU: I've never seen Abomasnow in UU, then again I don't play that often, but still!
Doublade moved from RU to UU: Sorta Expected
Cresselia moved from RU to UU: R.I.P RU Calm Mind Wars
Slowking moved from RU to UU: No comment.
Noivern moved from UU to RU: Sorta expected for me, Noivern wasn't ever that stellar of a UU Pokemon.
Tauros moved from BL4 to NU: I don't care
Kabutops moved from RU to NU: Largely expected due to Moltres ban.
Seismitoad moved from NU to RU: No comment.
Prinplup moved from PU to NU: PU is going to run out of viable Pokemon if we don't get some Pokemon back next tier shift.
Whimsicott moved from RU to UU: I don't care.
Pinsir moved from RU to NU: Well, there goes any resemblance of usage that Pinsir ever had.
EDIT: I had an idea the other day. What if we had separate usage stats for Pokemon and their mega evolutions. We could do this by counting any Pokemon holding its mega stone as its mega evolution. This would stop confusion from things like Beedrill being UU just because its mega is really good.
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Megas are tiered with their regular formes.
EDIT: Trust me, you're not the first. Zarel made a thread on Policy Review a long time ago. Go check it. It was explained there.
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Feraligatr outclassed it as a water-type dragon dancer, Salamence outclassed it as a dragon-type dragon dancer, Swampert outclassed it as a rain sweeper, and its critical hit set is too slow to sweep in UU. Very powerful pokemon, but it just happened to have steep competition for all its niches. The arrival of Sheer Force Gatr is what pushed it over the edge into RU.
Haunter has 115 SpA, 95 Spe, good typing, and a huge movepool. It's one of those deceptively nice NFE's. I'm more familiar with it in PU than NU, but not surprised it had the potential to move up.
It's mostly being used in higher ladder. Ice Shard is the ideal priority move in UU right now, due to all the fast flying- and dragon-type threats. Grass STAB backed by Ground coverage is really nice, breaking through those bulky waters the tier is known for and overall giving Abomasnow great coverage. Should be complemented nicely by Mamoswine's drop.
While I'd like to see that as well, Smogon's leadership made a conscious decision not to.
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| 36 | Ambipom | 7.224% |
ಠ_ಠ Please drop down so people can stop making fun of you.
ಠ_ಠ Please drop down so people can stop making fun of you.
Why don't you get why you can't use mega pinsir in UU? It got sent to BL because it was too powerful, and the reg dropped and the mega couldn't come with it.
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