1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Spelling and Grammar Standards

Discussion in 'Archives' started by Ray Jay, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    just a note

    the space around the / backslash only has to happen when talking about like Fighting / Psychic type Pokemon, and other Pokegrammar like the separation between base stats and EVs (252 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe)

    and/or shouldn't have spaces around it and other normal English uses don't need it (I can't think of any other besides and/or atm but they're out there I know)
  2. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,458
    What's the deal with nature/natured? For example, some sentences say something along the lines of: "it can outrun positive natured base 95 Speed Pokemon."
  3. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,599
    iirc it's "positive-natured" with the hyphen. use either that or just "positive."
  4. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    yeah positive-natured

    on another note:

    <Honko> specs gatr is a force to be reckoned with
    <Honko> choice specs is the crux of the set
    <Honko> when its counters are removed it should not be underestimated
    <Honko> 252 spa evs are used to maximize its power
    <Honko> a timid nature is a possibility but the power drop is noticeable
    <Honko> it's not all sunshine and butterflies for feraligatr though
    <Honko> hydro pump is the obligatory stab move and will do some damage to pokemon such as rhydon and magcargo
    <Honko> entry hazards are very helpful for feraligatr
    <Honko> aerodactyl, crustle, druddigon, ferroseed, mesprit, omastar, rhydon, steelix, and uxie are all options to lay stealth rock
    <Molk> you forgot pineco
    <Honko> you should also use clefable as feraligatr is horribly crippled by any status

    please try to change/delete these sentences when you see them, they show a lack of actual metagame knowledge and are entirely overdone and useless in an analysis.

    this decree has been made by gp king Oglemi, all shall bow to and praise him
  5. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,398
    Hi, just to ask for some clarification though:

    "<Honko> 252 spa evs are used to maximize its power". I thought we were supposed to talk about the EVs no matter what. Should that just not happen in these cases entirely? If not, what should be done about it anyhow?

    "<Honko> a timid nature is a possibility but the power drop is noticeable"
    You want it to just be more unique? I mean, something has to be said about alternate natures...I think.

    Also, about the entry hazards+status thing. Is this just a question of how badly the pokemon needs it?
  6. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    If the EV spread is a standard 252/252 sweeper spread, you don't have to say anything, it should be obvious. If the EVs do something specific, that's when you need to explain it, as does any non-standard 252/252 spread. Even just saying "Speed is maxed to Speed tie with other base 95s so that a sweep isn't cut short by Drapion" is acceptable.

    Unless the alternate nature actually does something, don't mention it unless you can explain something it does. Just saying that phrase is entirely pointless.

    Again, unless you can think of something specific entry hazards do (or status), don't mention it. A good example would be gaining an OHKO on Chansey with Stealth Rock as opposed to not; if you just say entry hazards can gain some OHKOes tells the reader nothing.
  7. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,599
    Something I want more concrete: what is the intended audience of our analyses? I've been seeing analyses with words like "catalyst" and "amalgamation." I'm assuming we want these analyses to be readable for the normal person, but there's nothing standardized on where to draw the line. Thoughts?
  8. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,458
    Is "base 80s" acceptable instead of "base 80 Speed Pokemon"?
  9. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,599
    I'm almost positive.
  10. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    If the word fits without sounding forced it's fine, nothing wrong with building people's vocabulary. Up to the author and GPer to decide if there's contention on word choice.

    I can understand the worry when it comes to non-English speakers, but we do have translations projects :>

    yeah
  11. Spirit

    Spirit
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,036
    What's the most efficient way to describe multiple Choice Band, Specs, and or Scarf users? Is just saying "Choice users" acceptable or do you have to specify?
  12. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    yeah Choice users, but you should try to not be vague if you can help it
  13. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    Choice item users ?_?
  14. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    v_v ugh i suppose if you're going to get all technical on me v_v
  15. V0x

    V0x meow or something
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,717
    Helo I have something particular to say about the word "while".

    I think there are two cases where this word is acceptable to use, and being a pseudo-conjunction is not one of them. Let me elaborate.

    1. You are given the option between two or more things. Let's say Move 4 in an analysis is Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground. Then, you would say "Hidden Power Ice hits Dragons, while Hidden Power Ground is necessary for Heatran". An incorrect use would be like this. Let's say Move 3 is Icy Wind, and Move 4 is Hidden Power Bug. "Icy Wind hits Dragons and slows, while Hidden Power Bug is for the lols". This implies that you have the option between Icy Wind and Hidden Power Bug, but they are separate move on the same set and you can have both. Obviously, the reader can easily see that, but I feel it is still important to have the intended meaning. It should be "Icy Wind hits Dragons and slows, and Hidden Power Bug is for the lols". This is not an unnecessary change IMO.
    2. Something is happening at the same time as something else. A non-Pokemon example would be "He went to the store while I set up the TV". Here, I am setting up the TV at the same time that he is at the store. In Pokemon, something like "Earthquake hits Fire-types hard, while making use of Quagsire's decent attack" would be the correct use. After all, when you use Earthquake, you are also making use of Quagsire's attack. However, "Fire Blast dents Bug-types, while also OHKOing Ferrothorn" is incorrect, and should be changed to "Fire Blast dents Grass-types and also OHKOes Ferrothorn" (or something like that) every time. Sure, when you read the former, you understand the same thing as the latter. However, not only is "while" awkward sounding, it also means that as you hit Bug-types with Fire Blast, Ferrothorn is being OHKOed at the same time. WaterBomb brought up a good point in IRC, that since it is singles, there will never a Bug-type and Ferrothorn on the field at once, so such changes are unnecessary. However, I think the meaning of the sentence needs to be correct, even if the readers' understanding doesn't change.
    tl;dr: the readers' understanding when using "while" might be the same as not using it, but the sentence's meaning changes. We should use the correct meaning, since it also ensures the correct understanding.

    edit: Oh yeah, I forgot one more. It's similar to the options one, but
    using while to show contrast. "While base 101 Speed is decent, it still gets trolled by speed creep." That is correctly using "while".
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
    Rohail and sandshrewz like this.
  16. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    Couple of questions:

    1.) Is there a standard spelling that should be used for the noun match-up/matchup. The first has 77 results when I search site:smogon.com/bw/pokemon on Google and the second has 44, so it seems like both are used a lot. I know there's a clear distinction on set-up/setup, so I figured I'd ask.

    2.) Is there some rule of thumb for when to use speed and when to use Speed? A lot of time it's obvious (eg. +6 Shuckle has more Speed than neutral nature Deoxys-S vs. Pikachu and Lucario got pulled over because the speed of their car was over the legal limit), but sometimes it's less clear and I'm not always sure what to do (cases like 'this set tries to take advantage of Arceus's power, (S/s)peed, and coverage').
  17. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    @V0x thanks for that :>

    1) I prefer match-up, but there isn't a consensus between dictionaries afaik. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/matchup This one seems to lean towards "match-up" for our purposes, since it's the pairing for athletic competition, while "matchup" is used more directly for a sports match. Both can be manipulated to fit our needs though.

    2) Use your gut to decipher what the author is talking about. If you think it's a clear distinction that they're talking about the Pokemon's base Speed, then it's capitalized. If they're just talking about its quickness, then it isn't capitalized. I've always disliked the vagueness here myself, but it's not something I've ever been too concerned about.
  18. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,398
    Hey i'm just going to ask a quick question

    We just started doing doubles analyses, and I have to ask: Should it be double or Doubles?

    After all, a sentence like "the doubles metagame" is very similar to "the Ubers metagame", and Ubers, being a tier, is capitalised. I guess it's an abbreviation of Smogon Doubles, but then again full abbreviations such as RU are capitalised. But then again, we don't have a partial abbreviation like this in any meta we have analyses for.

    While i'm here, could there be a bit about how you don't need to write Landorus-I, but just Landorus, and the same for Thundurus and Tornadus?

    Edit:Never mind, I see it
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  19. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    It should be Doubles when talking about the Smogon Doubles metagame, doubles when talking about the doubles format in general.

    I'll add stuff to the OP later today.
  20. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,204
    does this also apply to the sentence i've seen in many analysis' that generally goes "x nature gains many OHKOes and 2HKOes that y nature doesn't"? I presume that it does as it seems like completely useless fluff meant only for padding the length of an analysis, but I would like an answer please.
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    Generally yes it's just fluff, if they don't provide any specific examples.
  22. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    In a lot of doubles analysis, I have noticed the term speed control with the s in speed lowercase. I have been changing this to Speed control because this seems to be referring to the Speed stat, but I've been noticing it enough that I'm starting to wonder if this is a correct doubles term and the s should be lowercase. Is there a special rule for this in doubles / is this a special doubles term?

    Edit: Alright cool, I'll go fix the ones I changed. Glad I asked before too many doubles analyses got finished.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  23. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,227
    Let's call it "speed control" without it being capitalized since it's more dealing with the fact that your Pokemon are faster than the opponent's not so much dealing with the hard Speed stats
  24. Ender

    Ender meteoric
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    253
    We need to standardize this.

    [ability/move] user or [ability/move]-user.

    I'm inclined to go with the former.
  25. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,599
    It's the former.

    With that Pursuit-trapping abilities, for example, has no standard hyphenation that I know of. I just went with compound adjective logic. There's no compound adjective in the scenario you present.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)