Metagame STABmons

how does Photon Geyser handles Huge Power?
Does it checks for Pure Power for the Atk stat calculation (so at -2 Medi would still use Atk) or does it just uses Pure Power when dealing damage? (so at -2 Medi would use SpA)
Does it even applies Pure Power? (asking since it's a special move)
It choose the stat based on boosts, but then applies Pure Power if it chooses the Atk stat. For example, suppose it has an Atk of 300 and an SpA of 175. At -1, Photon Geyser would choose the Atk of 200, and then double that to 400 with Pure Power. But at -2, Photon Geyser would choose the SpA of 175 rather than the Atk of 150, so you miss out on the modified Atk stat of 300.

The problem also arises for attackers which are burned - the burn drops the Atk below the SpA but Photon Geyser ignores that when choosing the stat.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
dont worry guys, mega medicham's special attack with 0 iv's hits 148, and mega medi's attack when halved is 149.5 with jolly(not even an exaduration, its legit off by 1.5). basically, even at -2 your still gaining the pure power boost. your bro lcass doing them calcs so you don't have too.
 
USUM seems to barely affect STABmons, surprisingly enough.

Necrozma forms: Banned deucer
Zeraora: Unreleased, basically just gets Bolt Strike
Poipol: LOL
Naganadel: Already gets all the moves it wants, Z-Purify might be...okay?
Stakataka: I hope someone runs Band Head Smash but it's bad for real, new STAB won't give it recovery or better defensive typing
Blacephalon: See set above. I run basically the same set on Chandelure (HP Ground > Knock Off), and it's a monster. I could see this being pretty decent.
Lycanrock-Dusk: Click Head Smash and pretend you're playing Mega Aerodactyl but bad
Z-moves: Mostly irrelevant/on banned Pokemon/called "Let's Snuggle Forever"
Mind Blown: Guaranteed death in two turns without healing, gimmicky at best, unusable at worst
Plasma Fists: Unreleased, neat alternative to Bolt Strike if you prefer landing moves
Photo Geyser: Neat! Thoroughly discussed above, but I'll throw this set out there:


Gallade-Mega (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
- Play Rough/Swords Dance
- Knock Off/Swords Dance

Gallade is slept-on in pretty much all metas (except Monotype?) but a cool thing no one seems to recognize is that because of the type inheritance changes to STABmons this generation, you can use Play Rough to bust through Mega Sableye, something Medicham can't do without Tapu Koko support in OU (oh wait Koko is banned here, unfortunate). I think a four attacks set or an SD sweeper with either Play Rough or Knock Off as coverage would be pretty neat for offense. Gallade also has a broad moveset in general, so you can drop moves for Wisp, Taunt, or Mach Punch depending on what you want it to be capable of.

EDIT: Wait Lollipop Clown actually has pretty good attack hold on

Blacephalon @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Knock Off/Return

Don't run this
 
Last edited:

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
USUM seems to barely affect STABmons, surprisingly enough.

Necrozma forms: Banned deucer
Zeraora: Unreleased, basically just gets Bolt Strike
Poipol: LOL
Naganadel: Already gets all the moves it wants, Z-Purify might be...okay?
Stakataka: I hope someone runs Band Head Smash but it's bad for real, new STAB won't give it recovery or better defensive typing
Blacephalon: See set above. I run basically the same set on Chandelure (HP Ground > Knock Off), and it's a monster. I could see this being pretty decent.
Lycanrock-Dusk: Click Head Smash and pretend you're playing Mega Aerodactyl but bad
Z-moves: Mostly irrelevant/on banned Pokemon/called "Let's Snuggle Forever"
Mind Blown: Guaranteed death in two turns without healing, gimmicky at best, unusable at worst
Plasma Fists: Unreleased, neat alternative to Bolt Strike if you prefer landing moves
Photo Geyser: Neat! Thoroughly discussed above, but I'll throw this set out there:


Gallade-Mega (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
- Play Rough/Swords Dance
- Knock Off/Swords Dance

Gallade is slept-on in pretty much all metas (except Monotype?) but a cool thing no one seems to recognize is that because of the type inheritance changes to STABmons this generation, you can use Play Rough to bust through Mega Sableye, something Medicham can't do without Tapu Koko support in OU (oh wait Koko is banned here, unfortunate). I think a four attacks set or an SD sweeper with either Play Rough or Knock Off as coverage would be pretty neat for offense. Gallade also has a broad moveset in general, so you can drop moves for Wisp, Taunt, or Mach Punch depending on what you want it to be capable of.

EDIT: Wait Lollipop Clown actually has pretty good attack hold on

Blacephalon @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Knock Off/Return

Don't run this
to be fair to blac, not only is it one of the stronger users of v-create(i mean, this thing's attack and speed are 3 and 1 off from terrakion respectively, with stabs that are just as good for comparason) its also the only one(except the banned blaziken that is) that doesnt lose speed(technically with beast boost) when it successfully gets a KO with create. basically meaning its the only v-create user that has a ALMOST "no risk" v-create to spam whenever it gets a kill.

it actually hits significantly harder with v-create then it does with blue flare.
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 256-303 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Blacephalon V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 312-367 (77.2 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

z-treat is prob better, but yall better not sleep on the power of physical blac, as more then a lure, it can be deceptively scary to switch in on.
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Blacephalon V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 222-262 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and lando needs 52 investment in speed to outspeed -1 blac. so idk what speed number they are comfortable at, but i doubt this set will be relevant enough to force lando alone to run 52 speed ev's by itself
 
If you actually want it to gain Speed, you need to play with the EVs a bit. Something like this:

Blacephalon @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 40 HP / 212 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Explosion

This puts your Attack one point below your Speed. Good thinking on the Beast Boost, though. I hadn't considered that.

But yeah, I said "don't run this" not because it's a bad set but because it might be the most powerful set of all time, and I didn't want it used against me. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
 

drampa's grandpa

formerly The Ruins of Alpha
So I think this core is amazing and noteworthy and you should try it out so I can ct you.


Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- V-create
- Moongeist Beam
- Blue Flare
- Hidden Power [Ground]


Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Fake Out / Ice Punch / Other fillers (someone was running Sub?)

+ a webs setter

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Impish Nature
- Sticky Web
- U-turn
- Heal Order
- Gear Grind


haha I haven't made a set for this and I'm lazy ^_^


Both of these two have next to no switch-ins. Medicham breaks down Dark types for Blacephalon while Blacephalon beats common Ghost types for Medicham. Notably neither of these can switch into much so pivots are very useful, and strong priority is very useful for revenging the offensive threats that outspeed even after webs. Blacephalon is also very nice in that it cant be stopped by Espeed or Mach Punch due to being Ghost type (or Fire is you wanna use Sylveon).

My favorite thing about these two is that they both hit mixed, so dedicated physical or special walls like Chansey won't stop them.
Rip mixed medicham

This is the team I've been using. It relies on Scizor to set webs, Blacephalon and Medicham to break everything in sight, Lando-T to switch into certain things (like Lando-T lmao) and pivot, and Chansey to be fat and stop people trying to sweep with special mons (it specifically helps against rain and Rotom). Greninja is my last mon and it works very well with the main core, giving me some much needed speed versus teams that manage to defog. I don't think I'm finished working on it yet. For instance Chansey was just added over Heatran and may get swapped out again. But the core component of Megacham + Blacephalon + Webs is extremely deadly.

...

Other things I've noticed since USUM dropped.
Chansey + Mega Slowbro is annoying af. I see Mega Bro + Ttar being a solid core because besides the natural synergy it actually beats the core I just posted.
252 Atk Life Orb Blacephalon V-create vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tyranitar: 172-203 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
yeh thats not happening
if you want to really be careful
252 Atk Choice Band Blacephalon V-create vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Tyranitar: 159-188 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This set should beat every Blacephalon set besides Adamant band.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Pursuit / Knock Off
- Stealth Rock / Spikes / Knock Off / Sucker Punch
- Diamond Storm

idk use what moves you feel are best


Stakataka is not as bad as everyone thought it would be. I don't see it being used much unless Megacham gets banned, but it's a decent Trick Room user (this is more in general than specific to STABmons).


Stakataka @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Diamond Storm
- Earthquake

Stakataka @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 13 Def / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Diamond Storm
- Earthquake

this is probably the only set ever worth running. Yes it's the same set twice. But wait, the IVs one the second one are weird?!? That's because I made it so that it gets an Attack boost from Beast Boost, and minimizing Speed doesn't matter THAT much anyway when you have base 13. I haven't actually tried either, so take your pick.

And whatever you do don't try to make it work defensively.


:3 drampa is best mon
 
Last edited:
So I think this core is amazing and noteworthy and you should try it out so I can ct you.


Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- V-create
- Moongeist Beam
- Blue Flare
- Hidden Power [Ground]


Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Fake Out / Ice Punch / Other fillers (someone was running Sub?)

+ a webs setter

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Impish Nature
- Sticky Web
- U-turn
- Heal Order
- Gear Grind


haha I haven't made a set for this and I'm lazy ^_^


Both of these two have next to no switch-ins. Medicham breaks down Dark types for Blacephalon while Blacephalon beats common Ghost types for Medicham. Notably neither of these can switch into much so pivots are very useful, and strong priority is very useful for revenging the offensive threats that outspeed even after webs. Blacephalon is also very nice in that it cant be stopped by Espeed or Mach Punch due to being Ghost type (or Fire is you wanna use Sylveon).

My favorite thing about these two is that they both hit mixed, so dedicated physical or special walls like Chansey won't stop them.

This is the team I've been using. It relies on Scizor to set webs, Blacephalon and Medicham to break everything in sight, Lando-T to switch into certain things (like Lando-T lmao) and pivot, and Chansey to be fat and stop people trying to sweep with special mons (it specifically helps against rain and Rotom). Greninja is my last mon and it works very well with the main core, giving me some much needed speed versus teams that manage to defog. I don't think I'm finished working on it yet. For instance Chansey was just added over Heatran and may get swapped out again. But the core component of Megacham + Blacephalon + Webs is extremely deadly.

...

Other things I've noticed since USUM dropped.
Chansey + Mega Slowbro is annoying af. I see Mega Bro + Ttar being a solid core because besides the natural synergy it actually beats the core I just posted.
252 Atk Life Orb Blacephalon V-create vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tyranitar: 172-203 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
yeh thats not happening
if you want to really be careful
252 Atk Choice Band Blacephalon V-create vs. 248 HP / 140+ Def Tyranitar: 159-188 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This set should beat every Blacephalon set besides Adamant band.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Pursuit / Knock Off
- Stealth Rock / Spikes / Knock Off / Sucker Punch
- Diamond Storm

idk use what moves you feel are best


Stakataka is not as bad as everyone thought it would be. I don't see it being used much unless Megacham gets banned, but it's a decent Trick Room user (this is more in general than specific to STABmons).


Stakataka @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Diamond Storm
- Earthquake

Stakataka @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 13 Def / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Diamond Storm
- Earthquake

this is probably the only set ever worth running. Yes it's the same set twice. But wait, the IVs one the second one are weird?!? That's because I made it so that it gets an Attack boost from Beast Boost, and minimizing Speed doesn't matter THAT much anyway when you have base 13. I haven't actually tried either, so take your pick.

And whatever you do don't try to make it work defensively.


:3 drampa is best mon
Blacephalon cannot have Hp Ground because all New UBs IVs are locked to 3.
 

drampa's grandpa

formerly The Ruins of Alpha
Blacephalon cannot have Hp Ground because all New UBs IVs are locked to 3.
Unless I'm quite mistaken you're thinking of Hidden Power Fighting, which I did in fact try to use, and then remembered it was impossible. HP Ground is possible with 3 perfect IVs.

EDIT: http://www.psypokes.com/dex/hp.php
tested it with 31/31/31/0/0/1 IVs, which gave Ground.

HP Ground may not be the best move tbh, but I don't know what else to run there. Explosion? Will-O-Wisp?
 

wishes

ghost
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Updated the sample sets with the new Pokemon, Megas which never got added, and removed some old threats: http://pokepast.es/8723c7a0ea040e0c. Still needs some clean up but yeah.

Anyways, I'm going to be posting about Blacephalon soon. I believe that the Pokemon is looking to be an unhealthy threat to the metagame thanks to its absurd power and unpredictability, along with its natural tendency to fit into awesome cores (such as what Drampa provided) and it's just looking to be crazy strong. I don't think its banworthy, but it's looking to be insanely powerful. What are your guys thoughts on UB-Burst?

Also, when will a conclusion about Silvally be made / announced? No hurries, but I'm curious if I a.) missed an obvious post by not reading, or b.) nothing has happened it was just brought up and never followed through with.
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
Also, when will a conclusion about Silvally be made / announced? No hurries, but I'm curious if I a.) missed an obvious post by not reading, or b.) nothing has happened it was just brought up and never followed through with.
Oops



After a council vote, we have come to a conclusion that all Silvally formes will hereby be banned from STABmons. Silvally's absurd unpredictability within its movepool coupled with its ability to run any type (bar Ghost ofc) has turned it into one of the most splashable and dangerous threats in the metagame, It can be impossible to scout a threat who can theoretically run any combination of moves to bypass its specific checks. Its stats also enable it to fill in any role, from a specially or physically offensive sweeper to a sturdy defensive wall. Many STABmons teams feel incomplete without a Silvally forme due to the ridiculous amount of leverage it can bring to any team. We do not consider this a healthy trend.

Do note that even if certain untested Silvally formes such as Bug and Grass may have not been too overbearing at this instance, we do not want to be stuck in a situation where we need to go through several different suspects as the next best forme gets banned.

Enjoy the USUM metagame (Mega Medi looks really scary!)

The Immortal
 
Oops



After a council vote, we have come to a conclusion that all Silvally formes will hereby be banned from STABmons. Silvally's absurd unpredictability within its movepool coupled with its ability to run any type (bar Ghost ofc) has turned it into one of the most splashable and dangerous threats in the metagame, It can be impossible to scout a threat who can theoretically run any combination of moves to bypass its specific checks. Its stats also enable it to fill in any role, from a specially or physically offensive sweeper to a sturdy defensive wall. Many STABmons teams feel incomplete without a Silvally forme due to the ridiculous amount of leverage it can bring to any team. We do not consider this a healthy trend.

Do note that even if certain untested Silvally formes such as Bug and Grass may have not been too overbearing at this instance, we do not want to be stuck in a situation where we need to go through several different suspects as the next best forme gets banned.

Enjoy the USUM metagame (Mega Medi looks really scary!)

The Immortal
Look, I understand this needed to be done. But seriously, rest in fucking pieces Silvally. The ONE metagame where it could actually live up to its name of being the mini Arceus. It's back to rotting in PU, being nothing but a disappointment for this guy.
 

wishes

ghost
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Moderator
Let's talk: Photon Geyser. Photon Geyser is a new move introduced with Ultra Sun / Moon and it's a massive upgrade for physical attackers. The move is Psychic-type, has 100 BP, and always hits off the opponents Special Defense stat; however, it takes into account the user's highest stat when attacking. Therefore, a Pokemon with an Attack stat which reaches 359, while their Special Attack stat only reaches 320, then Photon Geyser is a physical attack, which hits the opponent's Special Defense, not Defense.

But what does this mean for STABmons? Well, firstly: Medicham-Mega received a huge buff in that it can blow back Landorus-T without fear of Beak Blast burns from Ice Punch and it will always 2HKO it:

-1 252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 217-256 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 219-258 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 328-387 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The first calc is versus Scarved / non-bulky variants, which will be gone after a tiny bit of residual damage (for example, U-turn from CB Scizor into it guarantees it will always OHKO). Second, the most important and likely scenario: versus bulky Landorus-T. Landorus-T is often a safe stop for Mega Medicham because High Jump Kick doesn't do a lot, while Ice Punch forces Mega Medicham to get burned, where another Pokemon can come in afterwards and Landorus-T can just use Shore Up to recover back its health later in the match. However, that's not going to happen anymore! Photon Geyser will always 2HKO it and does not activate Beak Blast, making it a much easier move to use. The final calc, one that will be a somewhat unlikely situation, is if Landorus-T comes in as Medicham-Mega uses Bulk Up, or it switches into U-turn directly and is left versus Medicham-Mega. Landorus-T would usually switch out knowing that Ice Punch KOes, but it could risk the burn. Regardless, it runs over Landorus-T now. Having a nice "physical" STAB to prey off its best check is awesome, and it also smacks Mega Venusaur which is usually safe considering Zen Headbutt isn't exactly the most common, and it can easily take any other hit from Medicham-Mega. Easily the biggest buff.

Next, Hoopa-U can now feasibly run a Choice Band set consisting of Photon Geyser / Hyperspace Fury / Superpower / Gunk Shot, which allows it to also break through Landorus-T:

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 229-271 (59.9 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 229-271 (71.7 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

This time the first calc is vs. defensive Landorus-T, while the second is versus Scarf Lando-T. It's considerably weaker than Medicham-Mega's, but it still hits for solid damage and avoids Beak Blast damage, which is happily appreciated!

Finally, although niche, Latios-Mega now has a reliable Psychic-type STAB move, which allows for Dragon Dance sets to be used. This set thrives considering it's a check to Thundurus, Greninja-A (watch out for Dark Pulse!), and Keldeo. Here's a set we theorymonned in the OM chat a few days back:


Latios-Mega @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Photon Geyser
- Outrage

The Speed allows you to outpace Scarf Landorus-T, as the next most common Choice Scarf user, Keldeo, is checked naturally. 132 HP EVs are required to take on a +2 Oblivion Wing from Life Orb Thundurus, and it can OHKO in return:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Oblivion Wing vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 282-333 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Latios-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 196-232 (65.5 - 77.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This takes into consideration Stealth Rock, which is pointless if they use Oblivion Wing. However, Oblivion Wing only recovers 70.7% and 83.5%, which is then 60.7% and 73.5% since Life Orb damage, meaning Photon Geyser will always OHKO. But, it's important to note this because the Thundurus player could be running a physical set, or it could be threatening to Thunder Wave and predict a switch. Be careful to keep entry hazards off your side as well, as it's a 68.8% chance to OHKO Latios-Mega if you take Stealth Rock damage yourself! You never know when it might happen! This is very much just a "click this is you're about to be swept" tactic, but Latios-Mega already makes Thundurus not want to set up since it can take its non-boosted attacks fairly easily. If Latios-Mega is already at +1 from Dragon Dance, it easily knocks through Thundurus. The rest of the EVs went into HP since it wasn't needed anywhere else, as putting 20 EVs into SpD didn't change any of the damage taken from Special Attacks. It also does a ton to Landorus-T:

252 Atk Latios-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 196-232 (61.4 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Beak Blast won't burn either! Very cool set if you ask me! Still, it's incredibly niche and won't have a huge impact. Walled to hell and back by Celesteela and Ferrothorn, making Magnezone an absolute necessity of a partner. And even that isn't enough sometimes! Though if your team isn't hard pressed to run a Mega and you want to experiment a bit, this set is mad fun.

Will Photon Geyser shake up the metagame? Probably not. Maybe changing Naive to Hasty on mixed attackers could be handy, but taking more from FakeSpeed in return seems kind of lame. Regardless of any of this, it's still a really unique move that I believe buffs Medicham-Mega in particular.

Let me know what you think and share other cool new sets as well!
;w;

this mechanic was proven incorrect. photon geyser targets the opponents stat based on your highest stat. 300 attack stat > 200 special attack stat will hit the opponent's defense, 200 attack stat < 300 special attack stat will hit the opponent's special defense. so, it's not a flipped psyshock anymore. rip
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
;w;

this mechanic was proven incorrect. photon geyser targets the opponents stat based on your highest stat. 300 attack stat > 200 special attack stat will hit the opponent's defense, 200 attack stat < 300 special attack stat will hit the opponent's special defense. so, it's not a flipped psyshock anymore. rip
still the strongest physical psychic move...so guess it has that going for it...otherwise just another mediocre move.
 

Cresselia92

formerly Darklatias92
i dont think geyser has the effect, its only the ultranecrozium's effect. correct me if im wrong.
Straight from the USUM Mechanics Research thread:

Photon Geyser:
  • This move ignores the target's Ability.
  • If the user's current Attack stat is higher than their Special Attack stat, this move is treated as a physical attack and uses the target's defense to calculate damage. Otherwise it is treated as a special attack.
  • Uses the user's actual highest stat (Attack or Special Attack) not their base stat.
  • In the case of a tie in Attack and Special Attack stats, Photon Geyser will use Special Attack to determine its damage and be treated as a special attack.
  • When going off the user's higher Attack stat the move is treated as physical and will activate Weak Armor and be weakened by Reflect.
  • If the user is burned while their raw Attack stat is higher than their Special Attack, Photo Geyser deals half the damage. The damage dealt is based on the higher raw Attack stat which is then halved by the burn.
I have also read that if used as physical it is affected by Counter, while if used as special it is affected by Mirror Coat.
 

Kris

bustom bitle
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
Straight from the USUM Mechanics Research thread:

Photon Geyser:
  • This move ignores the target's Ability.
  • If the user's current Attack stat is higher than their Special Attack stat, this move is treated as a physical attack and uses the target's defense to calculate damage. Otherwise it is treated as a special attack.
  • Uses the user's actual highest stat (Attack or Special Attack) not their base stat.
  • In the case of a tie in Attack and Special Attack stats, Photon Geyser will use Special Attack to determine its damage and be treated as a special attack.
  • When going off the user's higher Attack stat the move is treated as physical and will activate Weak Armor and be weakened by Reflect.
  • If the user is burned while their raw Attack stat is higher than their Special Attack, Photo Geyser deals half the damage. The damage dealt is based on the higher raw Attack stat which is then halved by the burn.
I have also read that if used as physical it is affected by Counter, while if used as special it is affected by Mirror Coat.
This contains outdated mechanics. DaWoblefet and I tested the mechanics to conclude that:
Photon Geyser turns Physical if the user's Attack is higher than their Special Attack
Photon Geyser ignores abilities like Moongeist Beam and Sunsteel Strike.
 
This contains outdated mechanics. DaWoblefet and I tested the mechanics to conclude that:
Photon Geyser turns Physical if the user's Attack is higher than their Special Attack
Photon Geyser ignores abilities like Moongeist Beam and Sunsteel Strike.
... but the block you yourself quoted yourself already contains the following bullet points:
  • When going off the user's higher Attack stat the move is treated as physical and will activate Weak Armor and be weakened by Reflect.
  • This move ignores the target's Ability.
 

EV

Spread me like one of your French Pokemon
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Super Moderator
Well that settles that. Rip the dream.

Post replays of your coolest/closest/funniest USM battles thus far!

I'll give the person who posts a replay that generates the most likes a Smogon custom title and unlimited size avatar upload. You have 48 hours.
 
Likes: nv

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Well that settles that. Rip the dream.

Post replays of your coolest/closest/funniest USM battles thus far!

I'll give the person who posts a replay that generates the most likes a Smogon custom title and unlimited size avatar upload. You have 48 hours.
so that means i have to 1) post a funny joke. 2) post a lot of memes 3) post a game where i 6-0 flint, adrian, and klang at once, 4) make a witty comment about politics 5) beg for likes. 6) say ill do like-for-likes and betray them last second. and 7) make sure i delete all but the replay last second. your on EV...just gotta get back into stabmons.

edit: do i technically win by default since i have the most likes. cant i just edit onto a stabmons game with me autoforfeiting
 
Last edited:

wishes

ghost
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Moderator
Betathunder Funbot28 Official Fissure ihhca EV

Hey guys, tagging you all since I was hoping to receive an update from the council as to when Blacephalon will be getting banned / suspected? Numerous people I've talked to have shared similar concerns to myself: that it's simply too powerful, versatile, and unhealthy to be kept in the tier. Sorry if you guys are like debating and whatnot and I'm bugging you guys, but I just was hoping for a transparent response from the council.

Thanks. :)
 

drampa's grandpa

formerly The Ruins of Alpha
Well that settles that. Rip the dream.

Post replays of your coolest/closest/funniest USM battles thus far!

I'll give the person who posts a replay that generates the most likes a Smogon custom title and unlimited size avatar upload. You have 48 hours.
As a certain smogonite once said: "Rip the dream." No funny replays 4 u.
Betathunder Funbot28 Official Fissure ihhca EV

Hey guys, tagging you all since I was hoping to receive an update from the council as to when Blacephalon will be getting banned / suspected? Numerous people I've talked to have shared similar concerns to myself: that it's simply too powerful, versatile, and unhealthy to be kept in the tier. Sorry if you guys are like debating and whatnot and I'm bugging you guys, but I just was hoping for a transparent response from the council.

Thanks. :)
I've already given my two cents on this (Ban Blac) and Id like to know the answer to this because I feel like a Viability rankings update is due if we're not going to suspect Blac (Ban Blac), and if we are then we should probably wait til after the suspect to any large-scale reworking.

My thoughts on the current meta are...
Blacephalon UR ---> A+ Dominant af. It's not S because it has a couple flaws that hold it back (bulk SR weakness and poor coverage basically) but it is basically the face of the meta right now and I cannot see it lower than A+.
Tyranitar A ---> A+ is basically a necessity on most teams that don't want to auto-lose to Blacephalon. It's not the only check but its by far the most reliable and I think the only switch-in.
Marowak-Alola down because not only outclassed by Blac but because hates all the powerful ghost moves Blac throws around and especially the resurgence of Tyranitar. Not sure how far though, it's not like I've used it since Blacephalon came out because why would I?
 

EV

Spread me like one of your French Pokemon
is a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Super Moderator
Betathunder Funbot28 Official Fissure ihhca EV

Hey guys, tagging you all since I was hoping to receive an update from the council as to when Blacephalon will be getting banned / suspected? Numerous people I've talked to have shared similar concerns to myself: that it's simply too powerful, versatile, and unhealthy to be kept in the tier. Sorry if you guys are like debating and whatnot and I'm bugging you guys, but I just was hoping for a transparent response from the council.

Thanks. :)
I quit council a few weeks ago . . .

And I've told the remaining members at least a few times to post an On the Radar notice about it. :shrug: