Metagame STABmons

wishes

ghost
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As crazy as it sounds, I don't see any specific S-Rank right now. The only Pokemon I would consider S-Rank would be Lopunny-Mega and Thundurus. I guess those could move up, but I really feel like they fit better in A+-Rank personally. Everything there is exceptional offensively [Charizard-Mega-Y, Diggersby, Lopunny-Mega, Thundurus, etc.] or defensively [Celesteela, Magearna, Rotom-W, Tangrowth, Venusaur-Mega, etc], but not one of them stands out above the rest to me. Not to say any are anything but awesome, but none scream S-Rank like Tapu Koko did. However, if it's deemed necessary for an S-Rank to exist, then it would be Lopunny-Mega and Thundurus. Those are the two that would stand out to me personally.

And how is Bewear still A-Rank? This thing is not good and should drop to equal or slightly above Ursaring. Both are niche FakeSpeed users. Lopunny-Mega being added to the metagame didn't do it any favors either. It's way too high. @_@.

What don't you like about the B-Ranks Eevee General? Besides Ursaring being ranked.
 
I'd agree with you on that, there doesn't seem to be any notable super-threat that stands above the others. Lopunny and Thundurus are certainly strong in their own right, but as are many of the other A+ mons. A VR doesn't exactly need to have an S-ranked 'Mon, and I'd actually consider that a sign of a fairly balanced metagame.

Unfortunately I can't speak for myself about the B-ranked 'Mons, I don't use subpar sets so I don't really have any experience with them. If I've ever come across one in battles it hasn't made any impact enough to make me remember it, I've probably washed them all to the side without much issue. But from what I can see niche-wise, there really is no reason to use Bewear or Ursaring over Diggersby or Lopunny, unless for some weird reason you want a physically bulky FakeSpeed user in Bewear which I don't understand why you'd need that niche.
 
I've been using this Forretress set with a decent amount of success.

Forretress @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Heal Order
- Sticky Web
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn

It's a great pivot mon, switching in on e-speeders and other physical attackers. It can set up sticky web, and then it is able to use a slow u-turn into the mon of your choice on your team. What makes forretress unique from m-scizor is its (barely) superior physical bulk, its ability to hold an item, and its immunity to spore which is always handy. The one flaw with the set is how passive it is. I have paired it with Braviary as a revenge killer for mons that think they can set up on it, and as a way to discourage defoggers. You also need a solid special defensive mon for the zard-y's and thundurus's that will come in. Could be a decent B-rank mon maybe?
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
annoying steel 1 (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Strength Sap
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Knock Off

bulky water (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Infestation
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover

annoying steel 2 (Celesteela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Oblivion Wing
- Flamethrower
- King's Shield

40% usage (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Ascent

duggy is mean (Heatran) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Doom Desire
- Searing Shot
- Earth Power
- King's Shield

late game sweep (Greninja) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Water Shuriken
- Night Daze
- U-turn/Spikes

This is the team I have been using on ladder. I have made a few edits every now and then (Heatran used to be a fast magma trapper with taunt, for example and I experimented with nasty plot z move greninja) but I like this version. Ferro is the koko check and rocks layer, toxapex is annoying and can trap with infestation or haze away boosts, lando-t and celesteela are just great in stab, and greninja cleans late game after getting residual with tspikes/spikes/rocks/burn damage. Anyways now that koko has been banned, I'm considering venusaur > ferro, making lando-t bulky rocks, and changing toxapex to rotom-w for a more volt turny standard balance version. you can even try mega swampert over toxapex and bulu/tang over ferrothorn. but the type synergy is great on this team, don't mess that up too much. also a spinner/defogger is nice too, the celesteela set is cutomizable but i like seeds and owing, though roost beak blast im sure works too, then maybe defog over ks and slap on heavy slam idk
 

wishes

ghost
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The month has ended but fear not. GSC STABmons is the RoA Spotlight for August!
If anybody needs a team, here's one you could try out: http://pokepast.es/47af25e4dc85fc4f. Not sure the exact banlist, so Belly Drum may be banned, but I've had this sitting around for awhile. If it doesn't work, it's still a nice starting place for those who want to play. ^^

It's probably not a great / excellent team, but try it out! It shows some cool things like Spikes Nidoking and Aeroblast Aerodactyl. I'm excited to see what others come up with!
 
The month has ended but fear not. GSC STABmons is the RoA Spotlight for August!
Not sure if discussion for this should go here or in RoA (edit: there's a thread for it), but I took some time out to list notable moves for each type, with a couple of comments:
edit: idk what the banlist is either, though I assume it follows GSC OU, so this might have some banned moves
Megahorn

Crunch, Pursuit, Thief (notable for stealing Lefties)

Outrage for Kingdra if you're into that sort of thing, I guess, but it's only 90 BP

Thunder, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave

Cross Chop, Low Kick, Mach Punch, Reversal, Counter, Seismic Toss

Sacred Fire, Fire Blast

Aeroblast, Drill Pick (Drill Peck is listed because Aeroblast has low PP)

All Ghost types (four of them - the Gengar line and Missy) already have their relevant moves

Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Razor Leaf, Spore, Synthesis (Giga Drain has very low PP, so you may end up using Razor Leaf or HP Grass)

Bonemerang, Earthquake, Spikes (spikes are pretty metagame-defining in GSC OU)

Ice Beam, Icy Wind, Haze

Body Slam, Double Edge, Explosion, Extreme Speed (notably only +1 priority)
Belly Drum, Baton Pass, Charm (useful to PP Stall Cursers), Disable, Glare, Growth, Heal Bell, Lovely Kiss, Milk Drink, Perish Song (particularly useful for things like lastmon Curselax), Psych Up (top tier meme) Rapid Spin, Screech, Soft-Boiled, Swords Dance, Transform, Whirlwind

Sludge Bomb

Psychic, Agility, Hypnosis, Light Screen, Mirror Coat, Reflect

Rock Slide

Steel Wing,

Surf, Hydro Pump (notably, Crabhammer is weaker and less accurate than Surf, though it does have a high crit rate)

Hidden Power maxes out at 70BP this gen, so it does have a niche if the other moves for a type are pathetically weak (looking at you, Grass)

As for the meta itself, normal types (and Eeveelutions) look incredibly threatening, with reliable recovery and a huge support movepool. For example, Curselax now has an extra moveslot it can dedicate to coverage (eg Earthquake to hit Rocks/Steels, or Baton Pass, or Glare/Lovely Kiss to bypass checks, or Disable to meme on Charmers, or Whirlwind to meme on phazers - a quirk of GSC is that phazing fails if the phazer doesn't move last, or...). You also have cool things like Umbreon which can Spin and cleric. Fighting checks will probably be mandatory as a result, especially for Heracross, whose powerful STAB Megahorn destroys Psychic types, but also Machamp. I'm sure there are plenty of threats I'm missing (Glare shuffling with Spikes support, for instance), but these are some of the threats you're likely to see.
 
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EV

Spread me like one of your French Pokemon
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PS Policy Head
Some of you may remember a little sub-format I created last gen called Bad STABmons. Well, it's back! The rules are mostly all the same except this time I've bumped the BST cap to 450, which means a few more Pokemon are now available. Plus, there's a bunch of fun additions thanks to SUMO, adding buffs to both offense and defense alike!

Here's the Google doc with the Rules, Threatlist, and full list of Pokemon: CLICK

And here's a general breakdown:
  • BST cut-off is 450. Anything higher is banned.
  • Bans:
    • Pokemon: Chansey, Minior, Gumshoos, Sableye, Wishiwashi.
    • Items: All Mega Stones, Thick Club.
    • Moves: Chatter (even on Chatot).
    • Abilities: Huge Power, Pure Power, Simple.
  • All other regular STABmons rules apply.

Sandslash
Alolan Sandslash
Venomoth
Seaking
Granbull
Piloswine
Cherrim
Arbok
Doublade
Liepard
Audino
Fearow
Persian
Alolan Persian
Seadra
Qwilfish
Pelipper
Vigoroth
Kecleon
Rotom
Klang
Wigglytuff
Tangela
Misdreavus
Togedemaru
Dedenne
Quagsire
Gligar
Sneasel
Magcargo
Lairon
Volbeat
Illumise
Emolga
Dugtrio
Alolan Dugtrio
Marowak
Alolan Marowak
Sunflora
Swoobat
Wormadam (Plant Cloak)
Wormadam (Sandy Cloak)
Wormadam (Trash Cloak)
Mothim
Diggersby
Dragonair
Azumarill
Mightyena
Linoone
Castform
Shelgon
Metang
Watchog
Zweilous
Dartrix
Torracat
Brionne
Hakamo-o
Pignite
Furret
Dunsparce
Raticate
Alolan Raticate
Servine
Dewott
Chatot
Vivillon
Ponyta
Sudowoodo
Corsola
Pupitar
Medicham
Sealeo
Bibarel
Gabite
Fraxure
Pyukumuku
Braixen
Ivysaur
Charmeleon
Wartortle
Parasect
Machoke
Haunter
Bayleef
Quilava
Croconaw
Togetic
Murkrow
Wobbuffet
Grovyle
Combusken
Marshtomp
Plusle
Minun
Grotle
Monferno
Prinplup
Pachirisu
Gurdurr
Eelektrik
Quilladin
Frogadier
Shiinotic
Archen
Kadabra
Ariados
Delcatty
Roselia
Wailmer
Charjabug
Cosmoem
Butterfree
Beedrill
Gloom
Porygon
Beautifly
Vanillish
Weepinbell
Graveler
Alolan Graveler
Ledian
Yanma
Munchlax
Boldore
Gothorita
Poliwhirl
Onix
Lickitung
Dustox
Mudbray
Kricketune
Palpitoad
Fletchinder
Mawile
Swadloon
Farfetch'd
Nosepass
Floette
Herdier
Duosion
Lampent
Vullaby
Litleo
Nidorina
Nidorino
Flaaffy
Magby
Luxio
Tyrunt
Amaura
Aipom
Elekid
Loudred
Spinda
Whirlipede
Larvesta
Tranquill
Omanyte
Kabuto
Lileep
Anorith
Tirtouga
Espurr
Trumbeak
Krokorok
Growlithe
Cranidos
Shieldon
Buneary
Mienfoo
Rufflet
Skiddo
Pidgeotto
Drifloon
Scraggy
Pancham
Rhyhorn
Clamperl
Mantyke
Spritzee
Swirlix
Koffing
Staryu
Skiploom
Lombre
Nuzleaf
Vibrava
Staravia
Pawniard
Stufful
Crabrawler
Unown
Tentacool
Cacnea
Deerling
Frillish
Elgyem
Pumpkaboo (Small Size)
Pumpkaboo (Average Size)
Pumpkaboo (Large Size)
Pumpkaboo (Super Size)
Snover
Voltorb
Chinchou
Teddiursa
Delibird
Houndour
Phanpy
Aron
Spoink
Luvdisc
Buizel
Hippopotas
Skorupi
Finneon
Zorua
Clauncher
Stunky
Trubbish
Drowzee
Drilbur
Magnemite
Seel
Grimer
Alolan Grimer
Krabby
Exeggcute
Eevee
Shellos
Dwebble
Honedge
Clefairy
Woobat
Pikachu
Oddish
Psyduck
Cubone
Goldeen
Natu
Axew
Skrelp
Rowlet
Litten
Popplio
Salandit
Sandygast
Joltik
Bulbasaur
Chikorita
Turtwig
Pansage
Pansear
Panpour
Slowpoke
Darumaka
Karrablast
Squirtle
Totodile
Piplup
Froakie
Chespin
Abra
Doduo
Gastly
Treecko
Torchic
Mudkip
Swablu
Glameow
Mime Jr.
Sewaddle
Charmander
Cyndaquil
Chimchar
Phantump
Corphish
Snivy
Tepig
Oshawott
Fennekin
Binacle
Venonat
Mankey
Machop
Shellder
Smoochum
Carvanha
Numel
Timburr
Ducklett
Vanillite
Ferroseed
Cubchoo
Shelmet
Mareanie
Bergmite
Cutiefly
Yamask
Golett
Flabébé
Gulpin
Sandshrew
Alolan Sandshrew
Poliwag
Bellsprout
Geodude
Alolan Geodude
Dratini
Snubbull
Remoraid
Larvitar
Baltoy
Snorunt
Bagon
Beldum
Bronzor
Gible
Croagunk
Minccino
Klink
Deino
Goomy
Grubbin
Jangmo-o
Vulpix
Alolan Vulpix
Horsea
Shroomish
Electrike
Shuppet
Duskull
Blitzle
Tympole
Foongus
Munna
Sandile
Meowth
Alolan Meowth
Pineco
Trapinch
Spheal
Bonsly
Gothita
Solosis
Steenee
Helioptile
Ekans
Ditto
Barboach
Inkay
Paras
Chingling
Riolu
Morelull
Purrloin
Mareep
Slakoth
Meditite
Budew
Roggenrola
Cottonee
Petilil
Rockruff
Kirlia
Fletchling
Nidoran♀
Cherubi
Lillipup
Tynamo
Litwick
Nidoran♂
Jigglypuff
Taillow
Wingull
Surskit
Dewpider
Nincada
Diglett
Alolan Diglett
Ledyba
Pikipek
Pidove
Shinx
Spearow
Hoothoot
Skitty
Wynaut
Venipede
Patrat
Rattata
Alolan Rattata
Yungoos
Pidgey
Spinarak
Marill
Hoppip
Slugma
Swinub
Smeargle
Bidoof
Fomantis
Zubat
Togepi
Starly
Noibat
Combee
Zigzagoon
Whismur
Makuhita
Bunnelby
Shedinja
Wimpod
Burmy
Poochyena
Lotad
Seedot
Happiny
Cleffa
Sentret
Spewpa
Igglybuff
Wooper
Tyrogue
Bounsweet
Metapod
Kakuna
Pichu
Silcoon
Cascoon
Magikarp
Feebas
Scatterbug
Cosmog
Ralts
Caterpie
Weedle
Wurmple
Kricketot
Azurill
Sunkern


That said, I will be hosting a double-elimination Bad STABmons tour after OMPL Finals. I hosted one last year, which was a lot of fun! Here's the link to that. (Last time, I dropped the BST with every round. This year we won't be doing that.) If you want to teambuild, theorymon, or organize matches, join the Neon Town room on PS. See y'all at the tour!
 
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It’s certainly a powerful and versatile mon, but there are a large number of metagame factors against it. Almost every common wall has a positive typing matchup (Landorus, Celesteela, Ferrothorn, Tapu Fini, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Rotom, Venusaur, Garchomp, Magearna, etc.), and a majority of offensive mons do as well (Diggersby, Lopunny, Landorus, Greninja, Zygarde, Keldeo, etc.). This leaves it in a weird position where it’s very powerful in a vacuum, and checks a few key threats, like Porygon, but is naturally going to have a hard time dealing with like half the mons on any given team due to its abysmal typing. It has an enormous set of tools, but it’s really hard to pack them into 4 moveslots effectively, especially when you compare it to Landorus, which has almost everything you listed but a much better matchup spread.
 
Versatility aside, Band on its own is very scary. Bewear is the only super-reliable switch-in I’ve found (which is okay because Bewear is GOD). Bandtar is already a menace in standard play, but higher accuracy rock STAB, Knock Off and STAB priority make it that much more intimidating. I wouldn’t call it broken on account of its Speed and weaknesses, but it very much feels like Gen 5 Band Terrakion (aka “just click STAB and things will fall over eventually).

Utility sets with Shore Up/Rocks/whatever usually disappoint, though. As a defensive sand setter, I’d rather use Hippowdon. As a Bird check, I’d rather use a Steel (because Talonflame is irrelevant). Not really sure what Mega is supposed to do (DD Sucker Punch?). On paper, Tar is really versatile, but IMO it only has one good set.
 
shame that this didn't get a ladder this month, i was looking forward to it :1

agree that ttar is really good, but it can't fit everything that it wants to on one set and lando is on every second team so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

has anyone tried magearna? the main thing that it gains is moonlight, which lets it check normals and stuff more consistently. could run something like cm+moonlight, might be a pretty decent late game sweeper. something like this:

Magearna @ Leftovers / Shuca Berry / Z-Crystal
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

not sure about the evs on this, you probably want some speed but i dont know my speed tiers for this meta. shuca berry lets you lure in dudes like lando, chomp and diggersby and bop them with ice beam. moonblast + focus blast is an alternative for coverage, not sure if thats better than boltbeam
 
moonblast + focus blast is an alternative for coverage, not sure if thats better than boltbeam
Seems to me that it might be better to split the difference and run Moonblast + Thunderbolt. Ice Beam doesn't really accomplish much that Moonblast doesn't -- if you want to hit Ground-types on the switch-in, Moonblast still does a lot, and as a CM user with recovery, it's less important to net OHKOs on checks than it is when you're a Shift Gear or Trick Room sweeper on a timer. Thunderbolt is still great for threatening Zard Y and Celesteela and Toxapex, and it hits most Moonblast switch-ins neutrally; I wouldn't go without it on any CMagearna set.

+1 252+ SpA Magearna Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Landorus-Therian: 298-352 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The obvious weaknesses of a Tbolt+Mblast setup (that I can see) are Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Alolan Marowak, Spore/stallbreaking in general, and not catching faster Ground/Fire-types on the switch. The only ones of these you could really fix with moveset upgrades are adding Ice Beam for MVenu or Focus Blast for Ferro; or, like you said, Shuca+Ice Beam for Ground-types. Obviously there's some customizability depending on what you can rely on your team to handle for Magearna vs. what Magearna needs to handle for your team, but I'd put Moonblast + Thunderbolt as the default if I had to.

More thoughts after I've gotten a chance to play this.
 

EV

Spread me like one of your French Pokemon
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Few announcements.

I'm resigning from the council as an active member, but I plan to "stick around." I leave it to the remaining council to decide my replacement. ihhca will be taking over the thread's management, so expect a more up-to-date VR!

Also *spoiler alert* expect a renewed discussion on that jack-of-all-trades, Silvally!

Tagging Betathunder Official Fissure Funbot28 so you know I did it.
 
Thanks EV!

Funbot, Official Fissure, Drampa, Betathunder, Wishes, and I have been working on updating the VR, which was pretty outdated. We actually just remade it from scratch, since there were so many issues with it. The new version is still fairly preliminary, as there's only been a few months of Gen7STABmons played, and much of that was in a wildly different metagame (i.e. with KyuB, Kartana, & Co., and without Mega Diancie or Mega Altaria). I would love feedback on it, since relatively few people had input on it so far. Current question mark mons for me are: Mew, Mega Latias, Celebi, Weavile, Amoonguss, Nihilego, Zapdos, and Mantine. I don't have enough data on them to list them in good faith, but if someone has used them, it would be helpful to know what they think.

Silvally is left off right now for two reasons: I don't want half the VR to be Silvally forms and I don't really know how to fix that, and I want people's input on its future in the metagame. I personally think it's completely busted, so you can read whatever I write through that lens. I would like to know what people use to check the various forms, and which forms people think are good (I think about 1/3 of them are amazing).

I'll post a changelog for further VR moves, but we redid the whole thing and there were too many moves for a changelog to be useful.
 
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I also think Silvally as a whole needs to go. I don't buy the logic that "no single set is broken and it can't run everything at once" for pretty much any ban discussion, but I think it's especially poor reasoning here. Silvally has the BH-esque trait of being able to circumnavigate any sensible check to its common sets (think Fleur Cannon PDon in BH), and yes, that means that something else can handle it because you have to drop a good move, but that's not the point.

In short, the only way to prepare for Silvally is to rely on people to be unimaginative. My stall team last ladder relied on Mega Sableye with Spectral Thief to deal with Silvally, and it generally worked because everyone was so enamored with QD/Moongeist/Secret Sword/Spore and similar variants. If someone brought Tail Glow/Secret Sword/Fleur Cannon/??? Silvally, I'd lose 6-0. This is an acceptable dynamic in BH because every Pokemon has this opportunity, but in STABmons the only thing even remotely close is Rotom, who is limited to 7 types and must run specially offensive or fully defensive because of its stat spread. Any other threat in the metagame, I can generally look at the scope of its capabilities and prepare for anything but the most niche lures. For Silvally, I prepare for the most common sets and roll the dice. Personally, I didn't even have that much trouble with Sivally on the ladder, and I certainly can't remember being straight up swept by one. But I honestly believe that the longer we let it stay legal the worse things will get. Once people start getting more creative with what they run, you might as well replace Silvally's sprite with a big "?" because there's very little you can learn about its role on a team just by seeing it in the team preview lineup. That alone, regardless of the effectiveness in a vacuum for each of its different forms and subsets, is unhealthy for the metagame.

As far as the rankings go, I'm happy to see Mega Sableye and Toxapex where they belong, although it would be nice to see MSab (and Bewear) rise a subrank or two. I'd also like to see Tsareena in C for the reasons I stated the last time I nommed it, but no one but me uses it, so I can't say I'm surprised. I swear I'll show its strength next ladder! (Ban Mega Lopunny though)
 

wishes

ghost
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Let's talk: Photon Geyser. Photon Geyser is a new move introduced with Ultra Sun / Moon and it's a massive upgrade for physical attackers. The move is Psychic-type, has 100 BP, and always hits off the opponents Special Defense stat; however, it takes into account the user's highest stat when attacking. Therefore, a Pokemon with an Attack stat which reaches 359, while their Special Attack stat only reaches 320, then Photon Geyser is a physical attack, which hits the opponent's Special Defense, not Defense.

But what does this mean for STABmons? Well, firstly: Medicham-Mega received a huge buff in that it can blow back Landorus-T without fear of Beak Blast burns from Ice Punch and it will always 2HKO it:

-1 252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 217-256 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 219-258 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 328-387 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The first calc is versus Scarved / non-bulky variants, which will be gone after a tiny bit of residual damage (for example, U-turn from CB Scizor into it guarantees it will always OHKO). Second, the most important and likely scenario: versus bulky Landorus-T. Landorus-T is often a safe stop for Mega Medicham because High Jump Kick doesn't do a lot, while Ice Punch forces Mega Medicham to get burned, where another Pokemon can come in afterwards and Landorus-T can just use Shore Up to recover back its health later in the match. However, that's not going to happen anymore! Photon Geyser will always 2HKO it and does not activate Beak Blast, making it a much easier move to use. The final calc, one that will be a somewhat unlikely situation, is if Landorus-T comes in as Medicham-Mega uses Bulk Up, or it switches into U-turn directly and is left versus Medicham-Mega. Landorus-T would usually switch out knowing that Ice Punch KOes, but it could risk the burn. Regardless, it runs over Landorus-T now. Having a nice "physical" STAB to prey off its best check is awesome, and it also smacks Mega Venusaur which is usually safe considering Zen Headbutt isn't exactly the most common, and it can easily take any other hit from Medicham-Mega. Easily the biggest buff.

Next, Hoopa-U can now feasibly run a Choice Band set consisting of Photon Geyser / Hyperspace Fury / Superpower / Gunk Shot, which allows it to also break through Landorus-T:

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 229-271 (59.9 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 229-271 (71.7 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

This time the first calc is vs. defensive Landorus-T, while the second is versus Scarf Lando-T. It's considerably weaker than Medicham-Mega's, but it still hits for solid damage and avoids Beak Blast damage, which is happily appreciated!

Finally, although niche, Latios-Mega now has a reliable Psychic-type STAB move, which allows for Dragon Dance sets to be used. This set thrives considering it's a check to Thundurus, Greninja-A (watch out for Dark Pulse!), and Keldeo. Here's a set we theorymonned in the OM chat a few days back:


Latios-Mega @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Photon Geyser
- Outrage

The Speed allows you to outpace Scarf Landorus-T, as the next most common Choice Scarf user, Keldeo, is checked naturally. 132 HP EVs are required to take on a +2 Oblivion Wing from Life Orb Thundurus, and it can OHKO in return:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Oblivion Wing vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 282-333 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Latios-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 196-232 (65.5 - 77.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This takes into consideration Stealth Rock, which is pointless if they use Oblivion Wing. However, Oblivion Wing only recovers 70.7% and 83.5%, which is then 60.7% and 73.5% since Life Orb damage, meaning Photon Geyser will always OHKO. But, it's important to note this because the Thundurus player could be running a physical set, or it could be threatening to Thunder Wave and predict a switch. Be careful to keep entry hazards off your side as well, as it's a 68.8% chance to OHKO Latios-Mega if you take Stealth Rock damage yourself! You never know when it might happen! This is very much just a "click this is you're about to be swept" tactic, but Latios-Mega already makes Thundurus not want to set up since it can take its non-boosted attacks fairly easily. If Latios-Mega is already at +1 from Dragon Dance, it easily knocks through Thundurus. The rest of the EVs went into HP since it wasn't needed anywhere else, as putting 20 EVs into SpD didn't change any of the damage taken from Special Attacks. It also does a ton to Landorus-T:

252 Atk Latios-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 196-232 (61.4 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Beak Blast won't burn either! Very cool set if you ask me! Still, it's incredibly niche and won't have a huge impact. Walled to hell and back by Celesteela and Ferrothorn, making Magnezone an absolute necessity of a partner. And even that isn't enough sometimes! Though if your team isn't hard pressed to run a Mega and you want to experiment a bit, this set is mad fun.

Will Photon Geyser shake up the metagame? Probably not. Maybe changing Naive to Hasty on mixed attackers could be handy, but taking more from FakeSpeed in return seems kind of lame. Regardless of any of this, it's still a really unique move that I believe buffs Medicham-Mega in particular.

Let me know what you think and share other cool new sets as well!
 
So here we go for a high quality set™.

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Drill Run
- Fire Fang
- Accelerock

Head Smash + Tough Claws hits like a truck and you also get a priority move boosted by Tough Claws and STAB.

Let's talk: Photon Geyser. Photon Geyser is a new move introduced with Ultra Sun / Moon and it's a massive upgrade for physical attackers. The move is Psychic-type, has 100 BP, and always hits off the opponents Special Defense stat; however, it takes into account the user's highest stat when attacking. Therefore, a Pokemon with an Attack stat which reaches 359, while their Special Attack stat only reaches 320, then Photon Geyser is a physical attack, which hits the opponent's Special Defense, not Defense.

But what does this mean for STABmons? Well, firstly: Medicham-Mega received a huge buff in that it can blow back Landorus-T without fear of Beak Blast burns from Ice Punch and it will always 2HKO it:

-1 252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 217-256 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 219-258 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 328-387 (85.8 - 101.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The first calc is versus Scarved / non-bulky variants, which will be gone after a tiny bit of residual damage (for example, U-turn from CB Scizor into it guarantees it will always OHKO). Second, the most important and likely scenario: versus bulky Landorus-T. Landorus-T is often a safe stop for Mega Medicham because High Jump Kick doesn't do a lot, while Ice Punch forces Mega Medicham to get burned, where another Pokemon can come in afterwards and Landorus-T can just use Shore Up to recover back its health later in the match. However, that's not going to happen anymore! Photon Geyser will always 2HKO it and does not activate Beak Blast, making it a much easier move to use. The final calc, one that will be a somewhat unlikely situation, is if Landorus-T comes in as Medicham-Mega uses Bulk Up, or it switches into U-turn directly and is left versus Medicham-Mega. Landorus-T would usually switch out knowing that Ice Punch KOes, but it could risk the burn. Regardless, it runs over Landorus-T now. Having a nice "physical" STAB to prey off its best check is awesome, and it also smacks Mega Venusaur which is usually safe considering Zen Headbutt isn't exactly the most common, and it can easily take any other hit from Medicham-Mega. Easily the biggest buff.

Next, Hoopa-U can now feasibly run a Choice Band set consisting of Photon Geyser / Hyperspace Fury / Superpower / Gunk Shot, which allows it to also break through Landorus-T:

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 229-271 (59.9 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 229-271 (71.7 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

This time the first calc is vs. defensive Landorus-T, while the second is versus Scarf Lando-T. It's considerably weaker than Medicham-Mega's, but it still hits for solid damage and avoids Beak Blast damage, which is happily appreciated!

Finally, although niche, Latios-Mega now has a reliable Psychic-type STAB move, which allows for Dragon Dance sets to be used. This set thrives considering it's a check to Thundurus, Greninja-A (watch out for Dark Pulse!), and Keldeo. Here's a set we theorymonned in the OM chat a few days back:


Latios-Mega @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Photon Geyser
- Outrage

The Speed allows you to outpace Scarf Landorus-T, as the next most common Choice Scarf user, Keldeo, is checked naturally. 132 HP EVs are required to take on a +2 Oblivion Wing from Life Orb Thundurus, and it can OHKO in return:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Oblivion Wing vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 282-333 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Latios-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 196-232 (65.5 - 77.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This takes into consideration Stealth Rock, which is pointless if they use Oblivion Wing. However, Oblivion Wing only recovers 70.7% and 83.5%, which is then 60.7% and 73.5% since Life Orb damage, meaning Photon Geyser will always OHKO. But, it's important to note this because the Thundurus player could be running a physical set, or it could be threatening to Thunder Wave and predict a switch. Be careful to keep entry hazards off your side as well, as it's a 68.8% chance to OHKO Latios-Mega if you take Stealth Rock damage yourself! You never know when it might happen! This is very much just a "click this is you're about to be swept" tactic, but Latios-Mega already makes Thundurus not want to set up since it can take its non-boosted attacks fairly easily. If Latios-Mega is already at +1 from Dragon Dance, it easily knocks through Thundurus. The rest of the EVs went into HP since it wasn't needed anywhere else, as putting 20 EVs into SpD didn't change any of the damage taken from Special Attacks. It also does a ton to Landorus-T:

252 Atk Latios-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 196-232 (61.4 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Beak Blast won't burn either! Very cool set if you ask me! Still, it's incredibly niche and won't have a huge impact. Walled to hell and back by Celesteela and Ferrothorn, making Magnezone an absolute necessity of a partner. And even that isn't enough sometimes! Though if your team isn't hard pressed to run a Mega and you want to experiment a bit, this set is mad fun.

Will Photon Geyser shake up the metagame? Probably not. Maybe changing Naive to Hasty on mixed attackers could be handy, but taking more from FakeSpeed in return seems kind of lame. Regardless of any of this, it's still a really unique move that I believe buffs Medicham-Mega in particular.

Let me know what you think and share other cool new sets as well!
There's still a few questions left : how does Photon Geyser handles Huge Power?
Does it checks for Pure Power for the Atk stat calculation (so at -2 Medi would still use Atk) or does it just uses Pure Power when dealing damage? (so at -2 Medi would use SpA)
Does it even applies Pure Power? (asking since it's a special move)
 
If you're feeling really cool today, check out this set:


maro shroom 18+ (Amoonguss) (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Strength Sap

It kinda speaks for itself. For bonus points, pair this up with Tapu Bulu.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

wishes

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So here we go for a high quality set™.

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Drill Run
- Fire Fang
- Accelerock

Head Smash + Tough Claws hits like a truck and you also get a priority move boosted by Tough Claws and STAB.



There's still a few questions left : how does Photon Geyser handles Huge Power?
Does it checks for Pure Power for the Atk stat calculation (so at -2 Medi would still use Atk) or does it just uses Pure Power when dealing damage? (so at -2 Medi would use SpA)
Does it even applies Pure Power? (asking since it's a special move)
Pure Power is factored in I'm pretty sure. Otherwise, rip the dream. At -2, it would use SpA as well, or at anything lower. May be -3 considering Pure Power. Also, Pure Power raises Attack stat directly, not physical moves, so it being Special wouldn't matter unless I'm mistaken on this mechanic.