The Everything NFL Thread - 2013-2014 Edition

[Ancien Régime]

I'm just wondering, have you watched the tape??? or are you just spouting some nonsense that you've read on a Redskins fansite (I don't mean this in an attacking tone so don't misread it)

Nah, I thought Brandon Jenkins was gonna be a top 15 pick before he went down. He declined in 2011 due to injury and double teams (and funny that's when Werner broke out), then went down with the Lisfranc (which allowed Carradine to break out).

If Brandon Jenkins was that good, he would have gone in higher. Tank Carradine only started one year (this year after jenkins went down) and tore his ACL yet was still a top 35 pick.

I think I should be more clear.

Jenkins probably isn't the best all-around DE of them - but he's the best and most explosive edge rusher of them. He's atm really bad against the run, and undersized, so that rules out pretty much every 4-3 team. And frankly, a Lisfranc is probably worse than an ACL these days (more complicated, less research compared to ACL injuries). And Werner is better all around and fits into more schemes. But Jenkins when healthy is faster*, more explosive, draws more double teams, etc. If you look at his 2010, you'd think you're looking at a top 15-20 pick. That's a theme with our picks - we're looking at their upside, and emphasizing their best tape and thinking we can coach their downsides out of them.

*Based on how he looked in games; he ran a shitty 40 but I've honestly learned to ignore 40 times outside WRs and CBs and maybe LBs, other positions simply don't run enough for it to matter as a measure of game speed.

Another example would be DJ Hayden, who nearly died, and still got drafted top 15.

DJ Hayden was a top 5, maybe top 3 caliber prospect though. Better than Millner.

Or maybe Marcus Lattimore who tore his ACL and then his entire knee up, but was still a round 4 selection.

See above. A healthy Lattimore would be a top 15 pick at worst.

As far as Amerson goes, if you watched him versus Clemson or Tennessee (the schools were he faced NFL caliber opponents at wide receiver), you'll see him get burned for touchdown after touchdown deep. (kinda like corey webster last year). It was actually pathetic. However, with good coaching he can probably get past that and be solid in the NFL.

Yes, I've seen that tape. It was bad. It wasn't so much a lack of speed or skill - it was more an issue of gambling for INTs and going after double moves to get INTs. In short, it's an issue that can be coached out of him.

Trent is probably a top 10 offensive tackle in the NFL yes, but he was someone who had upside + provided college tape that warranted a top 5 selection.

But so did Amerson. His sophomore tape and Trent's junior tape were amazing. Amerson as a junior got baked by Cordarelle Patterson, and Trent as a senior got Sam Bradford injured. Our coaches think they can get a prospect to play to their potential or close to it, and that's why we're making these picks.

Tank>Werner>Jenkins in pass rushing

rofl lol no

imo Jenkins > Tank >= Werner. Tank is more of a hybrid DE/DT, and that's what the Niners drafted him to be. Honestly Werner will likely fill the same role for the Colts. Jenkins is more a pure speed rusher.

Basically your best case scenarios:

Werner: Aaron Kampman/Justin Tuck with less speed/more power but similar body type and great first step
Jenkins: Robert Mathis/Elvis Dumervil
Carradine: Prime Trevor Pryce/Current Justin Smith

 

[Wikey]

@AR: I'm also super impressed with our draft. It wasn't as impressive as some teams but we had less to work with and more glaring needs that needed to be addressed. But Shanny clearly had a gameplan and was able to get the players he wanted later than people expected them to be there. I'm most excited to see if Chris Thompson can be that speedy change of pace that AlMo so desperately needs.

 

[DM]

I love not logging in since the 25th and missing all the draft bullshit





it's a fucking crapshoot, who gives a shit, let's wait to see what they do on an NFL field

 

[Phoenix512]

Stupid Jets and actually made a smart move in releasing Tebow. Without Tebow in Jets camp, it makes the train-wreck less interesting but it's still worth watching though. As for Tebow himself, he probably exiled himself out of the NFL with his stubbornness to go to a different position. Sure it's good that he believes he can be a NFL QB but at the same time, he hasn't convinced many NFL coaches and GMs of it.

 

[YTP]

Stupid Jets and actually made a smart move in releasing Tebow. Without Tebow in Jets camp, it makes the train-wreck less interesting but it's still worth watching though. As for Tebow himself, he probably exiled himself out of the NFL with his stubbornness to go to a different position. Sure it's good that he believes he can be a NFL QB but at the same time, he hasn't convinced many NFL coaches and GMs of it.

You want a guy that never has played any other position to suddenly switch and learn a new on when playing at the highest level when there are oodles of more qualified players out there? He'd be better off staying at QB and waiting to get a call for a super emergency situation.

 

[Justin8649]

I love not logging in since the 25th and missing all the draft bullshit





it's a fucking crapshoot, who gives a shit, let's wait to see what they do on an NFL field

heh. this doesnt sound like the response of a bitter fan that is annoyed at his teams terrible upper management.

 

[Deschain]

well the draft really is a crapshoot.

the best GMs are good guessers with a bit of luck.

 

[Justin8649]

Buffalo Bills last ten 1st round picks:

EJ Manuel, Stephon Gilmore, Marcell Dareus, CJ Spiller, Eric Wood, Aaron Maybin, Leodis McKelvin, Marshawn Lynch, John McCargo, Donte Whitner.

Jacksonville Jaguars last ten 1st round picks:

Luke Joeckel, Justin Blackmon, Blaine Gabbert, Tyson Alualu, Eugene Monroe, Derrick Harvey, Reggie Nelson, Marcedes Lewis, Matt Jones, Reggie Williams.

Carolina Panthers last ten 1st round picks:

Star Lotulelei, Luke Kuechly, Cam Newton, Jeff Otah, Jonathan Stewart, Jon Beason, DeAngelo Williams, Thomas Davis, Chris Gamble, Jordan Gross, Julius Peppers.

Only 1 bust in that list thanks to injuries.


Yep. I can definitely see why fans of 2 teams that SUCK at drafting think the draft is a crapshoot. That's because your upper management sucks balls. Teams that draft well don't take project players in the first round. Period.

 

[CaptKirby]

Jets GM: All five QBs to vie for job

11/10

Does Mark Sanchez have a drinking problem/coke problem yet? I need to know

 

[Deschain]

Buffalo Bills last ten 1st round picks:

EJ Manuel, Stephon Gilmore, Marcell Dareus, CJ Spiller, Eric Wood, Aaron Maybin, Leodis McKelvin, Marshawn Lynch, John McCargo, Donte Whitner.

Jacksonville Jaguars last ten 1st round picks:

Luke Joeckel, Justin Blackmon, Blaine Gabbert, Tyson Alualu, Eugene Monroe, Derrick Harvey, Reggie Nelson, Marcedes Lewis, Matt Jones, Reggie Williams.

Carolina Panthers last ten 1st round picks:

Star Lotulelei, Luke Kuechly, Cam Newton, Jeff Otah, Jonathan Stewart, Jon Beason, DeAngelo Williams, Thomas Davis, Chris Gamble, Jordan Gross, Julius Peppers.

Only 1 bust in that list thanks to injuries.


Yep. I can definitely see why fans of 2 teams that SUCK at drafting think the draft is a crapshoot. That's because your upper management sucks balls. Teams that draft well don't take project players in the first round. Period.

oh i'm not defending our front office at all, it's been pretty awful for a lot of years. however there's only 4 true busts on that list (5 if you want to count Gabbert, but i'm not going to call him that until after this year). Reggie Nelson was a bad fit and is doing pretty good for the Bengals.

but all of that is beside the point. you can know everything you can possibly know about a player, and still miss it. you do not KNOW anything before they play in the NFL. everything up until then is educated guessing, and hoping for a little luck that they stay healthy enough to prove your guess correct.

 

[some hero]

Add Justin Blackmon to the list hehe, and I thought Dez Bryant wasn't worth it. But if he managed to turn it around(though by "it" I mean basically nothing, just media crap) i'm sure Blackmon could too. I thought Blackmon was better than Dez, Green or Jones so it sucks.

 

[YTP]

Add Justin Blackmon to the list hehe, and I thought Dez Bryant wasn't worth it. But if he managed to turn it around(though by "it" I mean basically nothing, just media crap) i'm sure Blackmon could too. I thought Blackmon was better than Dez, Green or Jones so it sucks.

 

[Deschain]

Add Justin Blackmon to the list hehe, and I thought Dez Bryant wasn't worth it. But if he managed to turn it around(though by "it" I mean basically nothing, just media crap) i'm sure Blackmon could too. I thought Blackmon was better than Dez, Green or Jones so it sucks.

 

[-Tsunami-]

lol Blackmon got a 4-game suspension. Terrible way to start the season for the Jags...

 

[yond]

I thought Blackmon was better than Dez, Green or Jones so it sucks.

 

[Every1XplodeNOW]

In other news, the Omaha Beef have offered Tim Tebow a contract.

I think Tim can learn a lot from me.

HA

 

[kd24]

oh i'm not defending our front office at all, it's been pretty awful for a lot of years. however there's only 4 true busts on that list (5 if you want to count Gabbert, but i'm not going to call him that until after this year). Reggie Nelson was a bad fit and is doing pretty good for the Bengals.

but all of that is beside the point. you can know everything you can possibly know about a player, and still miss it. you do not KNOW anything before they play in the NFL. everything up until then is educated guessing, and hoping for a little luck that they stay healthy enough to prove your guess correct.

ummmmm who else do you have as the non busts...

anyway its not surprising that you feel that way about drafting, im sure thats how local media outlets spin the constant "bad luck" of shitty teams drafting

scouting and know how to effectively draft players is an actual skill, not a crapshoot. sure, busts do happen for every team, but good front offices will rarely draft busts in the 1st round. calling it educated guessing is kind of insulting, if it was just educated guesswork, scouts wouldnt be held on such a tight leash.

since 1996, the ravens have drafted 3 busts (probably 4 if jimmy smith doesn't pan out) in the 1st round. but i'm sure it's just a huge lucky streak that the ravens FO kept finding great players in the 1st round

 

[Phoenix512]

I love that quote by McNear. Anyway about Tebow staying at QB instead of going into another position, if the market thinks you make a better TE than a QB, isn't that saying something? It's not like it would be completely new to him since he was a QB and all. If he wants to play football, he's better off being something else than a QB for now. There might be a chance he could be a QB again but refusing to do something else in the mean time is career suicide. Only Josh McDaniels could make Tebow into a QB again but he has no power to make him one at the moment.

 

[TheValkyries]

I thought Blackmon was better than Dez, Green or Jones so it sucks.

 

[Deschain]

ummmmm who else do you have as the non busts...

anyway its not surprising that you feel that way about drafting, im sure thats how local media outlets spin the constant "bad luck" of shitty teams drafting

scouting and know how to effectively draft players is an actual skill, not a crapshoot. sure, busts do happen for every team, but good front offices will rarely draft busts in the 1st round. calling it educated guessing is kind of insulting, if it was just educated guesswork, scouts wouldnt be held on such a tight leash.

since 1996, the ravens have drafted 3 busts (probably 4 if jimmy smith doesn't pan out) in the 1st round. but i'm sure it's just a huge lucky streak that the ravens FO kept finding great players in the 1st round

Tyson Alualu, Eugene Monroe, Marcedes Lewis.

Ozzie Smith is really good, no doubt.

i hope our new regime will be regarded as good as he is in 10 years.

 

[Jorgen]

Ozzie Newsome

 

[DM]

heh. this doesnt sound like the response of a bitter fan that is annoyed at his teams terrible upper management.

For the record, I loved the Bills draft and I enjoy the direction this team has taken since Chan was shown the door.

Buffalo Bills last ten 1st round picks:

EJ Manuel, Stephon Gilmore, Marcell Dareus, CJ Spiller, Eric Wood, Aaron Maybin, Leodis McKelvin, Marshawn Lynch, John McCargo, Donte Whitner.

I'm not going to sit here and defend the Bills front office, because shitty ownership is the sole reason this team has blown goats for well over a decade. But on that list, I see one outright bust, a couple average players, and the rest are very good and bordering on great (not including Gilmore/Manuel, it's too soon for them). Don't blame Buddy Nix for Chan Gailey's ridiculous misuse of CJ Spiller, or for Dave Wannstedt's hilariously bad defensive schemes.

 

[Dubby]

No idea if I am late or not, but are these the new uniforms for next year? I mean some look good, but others look plain terrible.

 

[YTP]

Those are not legit I think. The ones that were leaked last year looked pretty similar

 

[Ancien Régime]

Buffalo Bills last ten 1st round picks:

EJ Manuel, Stephon Gilmore, Marcell Dareus, CJ Spiller, Eric Wood, Aaron Maybin, Leodis McKelvin, Marshawn Lynch, John McCargo, Donte Whitner.

Jacksonville Jaguars last ten 1st round picks:

Luke Joeckel, Justin Blackmon, Blaine Gabbert, Tyson Alualu, Eugene Monroe, Derrick Harvey, Reggie Nelson, Marcedes Lewis, Matt Jones, Reggie Williams.

Carolina Panthers last ten 1st round picks:

Star Lotulelei, Luke Kuechly, Cam Newton, Jeff Otah, Jonathan Stewart, Jon Beason, DeAngelo Williams, Thomas Davis, Chris Gamble, Jordan Gross, Julius Peppers.

Only 1 bust in that list thanks to injuries.

Right but partially for the wrong reasons. After all, the Panthers haven't made the playoffs since 08 or so? Can't recall.

Or how about:

Arrington, Samuels, Ramsey, n/a, Taylor, Rogers, Campbell, n/a, Landry, n/a, Orakpo

Those are Washington's pre-Shanny first rounders. All of them except Ramsey and Campbell have made at least one Pro Bowl. Most have made multiple. Samuels is a borderline HOFer. Even if you count the years without a first, the Skins have hit more often than not in the first. The thing that seperates good from bad FOs is hitting all around the draft, getting value in the 2nd round down and finding, if not superstars, than solid starting players and building depth.

Not saying you're wrong but it's a bit more than blowing firsts.