1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Move: Super Fang

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by 1059860, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. blasphemy1

    blasphemy1

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,688
    Oh, sorry about the confusion.

    Yeah, that is the idea. If you can Super Fang something like Hippowdon on the switch with Nidoking, it is more beneficial than if you were to simply use Earthquake. Super Fang neuters all walls that aren't ghost type, and allows you to 2HKO everything assuming you have the right moves.
  2. RegalStar

    RegalStar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    176
    Super Fang mainly works to bring walls into KO range of something else. Some premier walls of their tier (think Registeel) have no reliable 50% recovery move, so halving their health is quite a huge deal.
  3. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,678
    Crobat is an interesting case, but IMO I think it needs to keep Brave Bird in its moveset so that it can check common offensive threats such as Infernape, Lucario and Gengar (!!!). A set based purely around defeating stall with Mean Look + Super Fang seems too specialized and wastes Crobat's versatility against offense.

    Speaking of stall, let's not forget that the number one switch-in to Crobat on stall is Rotom-A, who is present on just about EVERY good OU stall team. Super Fang is useless against it, as is Brave Bird in fact, and Crobat is obviously forced to switch out of it or suffer the consequences. So even a specialized stallbreaker set doesn't get everything going its way.

    Though throw in a bit of Pursuit support from Tyranitar or whatever? Then it becomes a bit more interesting.
  4. WarriorPrince

    WarriorPrince

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    503
    Mixed Nidoking can now break walls in any tier.

    Nidoking for BL?? lol jk.

    I think Nidoking can cause some trouble, having both Super Fang and Suckerpunch.

    Opponent switched in Gengar. Super Fang doesn't affect it. Nidoking uses Sucker punch. Gengar dies, dies, dies. With Super Fang, Nidoking can 2HKO many OU walls as well, since it has such a diverse move pool.
  5. youknowwhoitis

    youknowwhoitis

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    43
    This entire thread is just theorymon--we don't know if it will really have an impact.
  6. Eraddd

    Eraddd One Pixel
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,340
    Because a move where a pokemon can half the hp of a wall, that otherwise counters it, won't have an impact. It's more like common sense.
  7. sanjay120

    sanjay120

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,737
    kind of like how all the garchomp hype was just theorymon?

    i am soooo excited for crobat. super fang on the switch, uturn to a counter. and toxicroak on a rain dance team. and of course, walrein for uber.
  8. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,297
    Or you just use Substitute with whatever Ghost-type you bring in :/

    The only real Super Fang threat I can think of is Walrein with Super Fang/Substitute/Protect/Brine or Blizzard. Hail has always been a defensive strategy that is usually coupled with Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, and I imagine Walrein can just sit behind his Substitutes (which he can set up on Blissey, Forretress, whatever) and start using Super Fang to bring whatever it wants into residual damage KO range.

    There are some other interesting options but I personally will keep an eye on Walrein the most, as he is probably the best defensive user of Super Fang (which is where I find its true appeal, not offensively).
  9. A.P.

    A.P.

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Nidoking's problem is that it can't get everything (ie 4-MS Syndrome), with Super Fang, Sucker Punch, and two fillers. Theoretically, it can hit the entire metagame, but the point is: it can't cover everything.
  10. One Hit Knockout

    One Hit Knockout

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    O.o Sharpedo with all that power??? Broken much??? None the less, it seems like it will be placed on my team.
  11. reyscarface

    reyscarface
    is a Tiering Contributoris Smogon Frontier's Tower Tycoondefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    5,642
    Super Fang does half the opponent's HP all the time, STAB isnt taken into account.
  12. 1059860

    1059860

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    869
    I would use Aqua Ring over either Substitute or Protect since that's even better. Especially if Toxic Spikes had been lain down beforehand.

    However, your opponent won't likely to know your moveset until you have used it... If they don't know what's coming, screwing them over is quite easy. Less predictable = wilder games.
  13. Onii

    Onii

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    138
    Seeing Purugly getting it makes me wonder, what would it add to a speedshuffling team?

    It's only one slot, so it shouldn't affect the probability of getting a phazing move terribly much, but it would speed up the shuffle process quite significantly, especially against something like Flygon, which would otherwise take forever to kill.
  14. blasphemy1

    blasphemy1

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,688
    Why do you need Sucker Punch on Nidoking? You are still going to lose to Mismagius and Rotom, the former due to Substitute, the latter because of Will-o-Wisp, and Nidoking enjoys having 3 reliable attacking moves(as an example, Earthquake, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, etc.) In OU, Gengar will switch, as most people should know by now Nidoking has Sucker Punch, and Rotom-A will burn you.
  15. 1059860

    1059860

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    869
    You don't, but I just mentioned it on the list of Pokemon with priority moves for the convenience and to show how many of them are actually accessible to at least one.
  16. Phadunk

    Phadunk

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,229
    Good. It finally gave a handful of Pokemon the attention they deserve.

    Nidoking ftw.
  17. tophway

    tophway

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    347
    Just in the interest of exploration, if your health is right you can jump into Super Fangs + entry hazards to activate berries with calculated coolness. Maybe give you that speed or power boost you need to take out a pesky Super Fanger.
  18. Diesel

    Diesel

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,945
    It should be noted that Crobat will have a hard time switching in repeatedly with Stealth Rock in play, and that most Ghost-types don't mind switching into it at all. Pursuit Spiritomb in particular would also do nicely against Crobat, who won't like taking Pursuit when it has to switch out. Rotom-A should see a rise in usage after Super Fang is added to Shoddy, not that it wasn't already 6th last month. It has Super Effective STAB on both Crobat and Walrein, and won't mind repeatedly switching in to Crobat.

    With this in mind, however, Crobat should be an excellent Ghost lure, as it can scare something off, then U-turn to scout, and switch to a Pursuit user if it likes what it sees. Because of this, I like its chances of being successful, despite the fact that I agree with KD24 in that Super Fang will mostly be used on defensively based pokemon.

    Yea we should ban it ASAP. Is it even possible to OHKO Sharpedo?

    Edit: For completion's sake, Crobat gets Quick Attack.
  19. btb

    btb

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    207
    Sharpedo has access to Brine as well as Super Fang which means that if it Super Fangs on the switch, halving the opponent's health, it can unleash an 130 BP STAB move, which coupled with its 95 base Sp.Attack pretty much ensures the KO if the opponent doesn't resist it.
  20. youknowwhoitis

    youknowwhoitis

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    43

    You neglected to mention that Rhyperior, Porygon-Z, and Rampardos recieved just as much, if not more hype than Garchomp.
  21. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,297
    that was a case of healthy theorymonning, because those were primarily the first pokemon tested on shoddy, just to see how strong they were. people then posted their results on why they either worked (like rhyperior/chomp) or they still had problems despite our thinking (pz/ramp).

    there is nothing really wrong with the theorymon being given, if anything, it is motivating people to try out the new sets once shoddy comes out.
  22. wDro

    wDro

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,125
    I only see rotom to be the problem here. Neutral 252 atk Crobat can OHKO 0/0 gengar and mismagius with brave bird. Spiritomb can't do much to crobat if it stays in and taunts. So ya, I agree with you that Rotom-A will get eve more popular.
  23. familyguyman

    familyguyman

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Super Fang does 50% health to everything. Blissey and Skarmory both take big damage, going down to like 43.75% HP with Rocks up.

    It's not so much that they are in KO range, it's that you can essentially do good, unresisted damage to any switch in except Ghosts. This is especially good for things like Bronzong who can't recover HP and is a tough wall to take down.

    Obviously things like Infernape are still better mixed attackers, but Super Fang is a catch all move.
  24. doppio

    doppio

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    63
    I guess for this reason Wish support will be of even greater importance. Hell, Disable may see more use too (and that's a move seen as hardly viable). :S

    I for one think Hidden Power Ice (or maybe Electric) is a nice move on Spiritomb... So it may be worth looking at in light of this. Crobat will end up pretty low considering SR is up (also depending on how many EVs invested into special attack and held item), then once it Roosts, Spiritomb can either get out of dodge without having to worry about being attacked, or use WoW if it got Crobat on the switch. So I wouldn't say Spiritomb is entirely helpless. Crobat will still have to be careful the other two ghosts aren't scarfers also, as their attacking prowess is greater.
  25. frogbandit

    frogbandit

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    777
    Hmm...im most excited about stallrein learning super fang. a rise in hail stall teams?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)