Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

[Wizarus]

Lucario is mad strong, but it's not a huge threat to the metagame right now because of two factors: a) it's incredibly difficult to set up in such a fast-paced offensive metagame, and b) Genesect is everywhere, which resists both of Lucario's priority moves and can easily outspeed and OHKO with Flamethrower. LucaroarkZ, you claim that Lucario can just CC Genesect on the switch-in, but come on - if a team is truly Lucario weak, the opponent isn't going to blindly hard switch their only answer in on what could very well be an instant OHKO. That would be beyond stupid.

Keep Lucario where it is, B Tier describes it perfectly.

Well there's usually one pokemon Luke can set-up on, and Luke can(and probably should) be paired with a Dual Screener/Wobbuffet/Sweeping Partner. Genesect takes 40% minimum from +2 ES; it's not much early game, but assuming it's late game, Genesect is likely to get cleaned up with everyone else.

By definition though, Lucario is B-Tier. Lucario isn't self-sufficient at all, it need help to get the job done.

 

[SJCrew]

Nah, Lucario isn't wanting for power without his boosts. His boost is needed to go on an Espeed rampage and clear out weakened teams. Of course, that's a bit harder to do nowadays with the likes of Terrakion, Genesect, and sometimes Gengar running around, but without boosts, LO CC from Lucario is a perfect example of the kind of power a sweeper is expected to have in BW OU. OHKOs most sweepers with little or no prior damage, KOs offensive resists with CC into Espeed (Landorus, Tornadus-T, Zapdos, non-Intimidate Mence), and even threatens fucking Skarmory switching in with no boosts (42.2% - 49.7%; almost a 2HKO with Leftovers and rocks).

Theoretically, he should be much better than he is right now, but with 90 base speed not cutting it anymore for a non-DD sweeper, he's going to have to depend on Espeed a lot to leave his mark on offensive teams.

 

[Wizarus]

Nah, Lucario isn't wanting for power without his boosts. His boost is needed to go on an Espeed rampage and clear out weakened teams. Of course, that's a bit harder to do nowadays with the likes of Terrakion, Genesect, and sometimes Gengar running around, but without boosts, LO CC from Lucario is a perfect example of the kind of power a sweeper is expected to have in BW OU. OHKOs most sweepers with little or no prior damage, KOs offensive resists with CC into Espeed (Landorus, Tornadus-T, Zapdos, non-Intimidate Mence), and even threatens fucking Skarmory switching in with no boosts (42.2% - 49.7%; almost a 2HKO with Leftovers and rocks).

Theoretically, he should be much better than he is right now, but with 90 base speed not cutting it anymore for a non-DD sweeper, he's going to have to depend on Espeed a lot to leave his mark on offensive teams.

Those teams would have to be SEVERELY weakened for Lucario to go take them out unboosted, and there are quite a bit of pokemon who can do the "not be able to switch in safely" thing better than Lucario, with the added bonus of being able to switch into neutral hits without dying or switch into resisted hits without losing half of their health.

Switching in with Lucario without losing a big chunk of health is hard as hell. Finding the time without support to get to +2 when your Lucario check(s) is finally gone/weakened without being OHKO'd, status'd, or hurt so much that you die from LO recoil is dreadful.

 

[HabibsHotDogs]

Those teams would have to be SEVERELY weakened for Lucario to go take them out unboosted, and there are quite a bit of pokemon who can do the "not be able to switch in safely" thing better than Lucario, with the added bonus of being able to switch into neutral hits without dying or switch into resisted hits without losing half of their health.

Switching in with Lucario without losing a big chunk of health is hard as hell. Finding the time without support to get to +2 when your Lucario check(s) is finally gone/weakened without being OHKO'd, status'd, or hurt so much that you die from LO recoil is dreadful.

As a long time Lucario user (it's by far my favourite sweeper) I can attest to the fact that it is not difficult to set-up with lucario. The main issue he faces atm is new threats that can check/revenge him.

If you need setup chances, try appropriate partners. Dragonite is the most common set-up sweeper in OU... and Lucario resists all his weaknesses.. so when terrakion revenges your +1 dragonite or landorus hp ice's it... thats your chance to SD up.. Latios draco meteored it? same thing.

It doesn't stop there, try running gengar/latios/starmie/alakazam/gyarados/volcarona etc..

Solid B tier imo.

The additions of Landorus-T and ESPECIALLY genesect made lucario's sweeping time much harder now..


PS:
I stand by the fact that hydreigon deserves C a lot more than he deserves A. Also Infernape is a solid B imo. edit: i see hydreigon is in B.. better than A :P

 

[Bent1ey]

Can Lucario actually SD after switching into a Draco Meteor? I'd think a second meteor would punk it, but maybe it's much more bulky than I thought.

 

[Schpoonman]

No, you would have to switch in on the -2 Latios or whatever. Still, a -2 Draco from Scarf Latios does a minimum of 26%--more than enough to easily force Lucario into a checkmate later even if he's SD'd.

 

[SJCrew]

Those teams would have to be SEVERELY weakened for Lucario to go take them out unboosted, and there are quite a bit of pokemon who can do the "not be able to switch in safely" thing better than Lucario, with the added bonus of being able to switch into neutral hits without dying or switch into resisted hits without losing half of their health.

Switching in with Lucario without losing a big chunk of health is hard as hell. Finding the time without support to get to +2 when your Lucario check(s) is finally gone/weakened without being OHKO'd, status'd, or hurt so much that you die from LO recoil is dreadful.

???

Who said he was taking out teams unboosted? I'm saying he's plenty powerful without his boosts. But he is slow. He can't use that power on faster opponents (of which there are many) unless they switch in. The beauty of that, however, is that switching into Lucario is damn hard to begin with. Due to his subpar speed, Extremespeed is not so much a utility these days as it is a crutch. It's the only reason he's viable now.

 

[Stone RG]

Lucario is honestly a dark horse in this metagame, just like SJCrew said, 90 base speed is trash in OU, and a fairly healthy (omnipresent) genesect, can check every single non-agility variant of lucario. Power is no longer impressive with sweepers and extremely powerful attackers we have in OU, thats exactly why were testing kyurem b (which checks luke as well).

On the other hand, where are you getting chances of set-up? If youre talking about SD'ing on a choice locked resisted move, the only ones he can set up on are resisted ones, and even they do massive damage due to luke's poor defenses.

Im not saying lucario isnt good, dont misunderstand, of course if you prepare the field for luke sweep and have m=your pokes suport him, thats good. But thats the crucial point: It needs a lot of support to work as well as its expected.

 

[M BLADE]

Hey, where's Mamoswine?

 

[superbadd]

Mamo is high A IMO. It checks so many different threats and balances out the metagame very well. The only safe switch in is bronzong who's uu.

 

[dice]

One Pokemon doesn't just magically balance a metagame. Sorry, but that's just irrational. Keep in mind that Forretress, Gyarados, Skarmory, and Slowbro are also very good switch-in's, not just Bronzong. I would say B-tier, but I am unsure.

 

[Lavos]

One Pokemon doesn't just magically balance a metagame. Sorry, but that's just irrational. Keep in mind that Forretress, Gyarados, Skarmory, and Slowbro are also very good switch-in's, not just Bronzong. I would say B-tier, but I am unsure.

Seconding Bri on this one, Mamoswine does do a good job of counteracting some pretty big metagame threats including the new Therians and Lati@s, however it's by no means able to, as A Tier states, "sweep through large portions of the metagame". That's simply untrue when it's stopped cold by Skarmory, Slowbro, Forretress, and Bronzong, and checked by many others, including Politoed, Jellicent, Keldeo, and Rotom-W. Solid B Tier.

 

[superbadd]

CB Adamant mamo 2HKO's slowbro and gyarados after SR with earthquake and icicle crash, respectively. So, no, those two aren't counters. Also physically defensive skarmory 252/252+ has a good chance to be 2HKO'd after a little prior damage and SR. Rotom-w gets 2HKo'd by CB superpower. It has two solid counters, forretress, and bronzong, but none of them have reliable recovery, so they can be worn down easily and cannot repeatedly switch in. Mamo does do a great job at keeping the metagame balanced by checking every single dragon type and the therian forms along with fast frail sweepers like gengar, alakazam, and venusaur. Mamoswine 2HKO's all of ou(except forretress) with the appropriate coverage move. A tier, no doubt. Seriously, pair this thing up with magnezone and celebi, and you're set.

 

[Ghostbone]

I think at this point I should mention agility lucario has little problem with most of the checks mentioned, less wall breaking potential isn't that important in such an offensive metagame. (it can still 2HKO skarm after rocks on the switch though)
Agility/rock polish in general is prerty good in the current metagame where outspeeding boosting sweepers with scarfers is so important.

Also I think garchomp should move up to S tier, it's only downfall is a 4x weakness to ice, which the yache set mitigates. It ha the capability to punch wholes in offensive and defensive teams alike, can go mixed or pure physical and can also set up SR, or evwn hold a choice item. It's main check, scarf genesect, plainly loses to the salac berry set and is forced to sac members of its own team against the yache set.
It also turns a large portion of the metagame into set-up fodder and unlike other dragons, has a SR resistance, and rarely needs to lock itself into outrage.

It's definitely a poke that can sweep a large portion of the metagame with little support, and if terrakion can be S tier with a crippling weakness to 3 priority moves, Garchomp can be S tier with a weakness to one, which is hardly an issue with the yache set.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Mamoswine is a great check to a lot of threats on the metagame. But as the word say, it is a check. With a bad tipying (defensively speaking of course) Mamoswine will have a lot of difficulty trying to get in battle and actually do its job. Thick Fat somewhat alliviate this, but it's still difficult to get it into battle. Mamoswine has severe problems with Water and Steel-types that aren't weak to Ground. However, no other pokémon exterminate Dragon-types and genies like Mamoswine does, except peharps Weavile. B-Tier. And no more or less than that.

CB Adamant mamo 2HKO's slowbro and gyarados after SR with earthquake and icicle crash, respectively. So, no, those two aren't counters. Also physically defensive skarmory 252/252+ has a good chance to be 2HKO'd after a little prior damage and SR. Rotom-w gets 2HKo'd by CB superpower. It has two solid counters, forretress, and bronzong, but none of them have reliable recovery, so they can be worn down easily and cannot repeatedly switch in. Mamo does do a great job at keeping the metagame balanced by checking every single dragon type and the therian forms along with fast frail sweepers like gengar, alakazam, and venusaur. Mamoswine 2HKO's all of ou(except forretress) with the appropriate coverage move. A tier, no doubt. Seriously, pair this thing up with magnezone and celebi, and you're set.

Most people use Life Orb in place of Choice Band; the latter tends to be very risky and cost a lot of momentum, as Ground doesn't affect too many things. If at least Mamoswine had U-Turn (or Volt Switch!) but sadly it doesn't get any scouting move, wich makes Choice Band a lot more risky to use. While it is true that it can 2HKO the things that you mentioned, it can also give a lot of free switches to your opponent. Imagine your opponent switching on Ice Shard, and due to Choice Band, you can't punish that switch with Earthquake! Or you can't use Ice Shard to punish that Landorus that just switched on your Earthquake.

 

[superbadd]

Maybe I'm being too stubborn, but I still believe the pig is A tier. Don't forget that mamoswine has an electric immunity, which gives it a great opportunity to switch in. Mamoswine also has has access to SR and is a great offensive setter. The counter arguments against mamo noy being A tier is not convincing. When something can check like half the tier and 2HKO the other half, it deserves some recognition.

 

[SJCrew]

While I do agree that Mamoswine is really good, you have to consider that his company in B-tier is also really good. Like fucking Scizor, the clear leader in BW OU usage not too long ago. Some of them can even sweep teams with just one check or counter out of the way (VOLCARONA), whereas Mamoswine simply has too many checks to threaten more than his designated targets. He's more of a utility threat, akin to Scizor, than a team-destroying threat, likened to A-tier and above.

'Checking half the metagame' is definitely an A-level exaggeration though, lol.

 

[alkinesthetase]

mamo can check a shitton of stuff, and its counters are more limited than they actually appear. nevertheless i think b tier is the right place. now time for some elaboration.

first off i think it's unfair to refer to CB's uncounterability as a big advantage. most banders, like specs wearers, tend to have no counters by virtue of their sheer power, and it also assumes you have perfect prediction. slowbro is a more solid counter than it appears - if you lock yourself into EQ (cb EQ is the only way you're 2hkoing it), slowbro lives the first one fairly comfortably (will be 2hkoed if it stays in, but it's not knocked to like 20%), nabs regenerator and you're setup bait. CB icicle crash vs fully phys defensive skarm can only win by flinching, does less than 47% maximum. both of them CAN be beaten but the circumstances are quite restricted. in addition this demands a choice band. zong and forretress will wall it as well, although they're worse at it cause no recovery.

in addition mamo is not about to sweep most teams and can itself be checked without reasonable difficulty. no team is vulnerable to an ice shard sweep until it's like down to half its members or less - a team that's got THAT many ice weaknesses is crap, and this is coming from someone whose stall teams tend to be mamo-weak. demanding that much team backup is not A tier imo. unremarkable speed tier means that most of the things that outspeed you and are not ice weak will also check you because of the fighting and water weaknesses. going on a sweep with mamo is really not easy business.

if mamo deserves A, i would only be able to justify it based on the high value of its current metagame niche - ie revenging lots of very important threats. that's certainly an important place to be sitting in OU right now, but i do not believe it is enough to be a-tier.

 

[Boondocker]

OU Viability Ranking Thread
threats.


S Rank: If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

• 
  
  Based on this, Tornadus-T is easily "S" tier and probably Garchomp too. If Terrakoin is S tier there is no reason Garchomp shouldnt be too.
  
  Hippowdon to B tier. Yes it sets up Sandstorm, but he requires significant support to be effective. Hippo is setup bait for way too many threats to be on an offensive team (I've seen him on some, but eh).
  
  Gothetelle to C tier. Gothetelle's movepool, stats, and typing are its "crippling flaws". Should not be in the same tier as Skarmory and friends.
  
  Jolteon to D tier. Other than the super rare Sub+Pass set, Jolteon is complete crap. Electric is too bad of a type to lock yourself into nowadays. Its horrible movepool solidifies its place in the dreaded D tier.
  
  Landerous-T to C tier. I dont have alot of experience with it but from what I've seen its mediocore. Resisting none of fire, water, rock, ice, dragon, or grass is not good. It checks alot of things but is setup bait for alot of other things.
  
  Ferrothorn to A tier. It does its job most of the time.
  
  Gastrodon to C tier. Its crippling flaw is its only really usefull against rain teams. With the fall of scarf Rotom-W there are few reasons to run Gastrodon over Tentacruel.
  
  Conkeldurr to B tier. Professional hole puncher and check to many things.
  
  Infernape to D tier. Just not worth it most of the time. Much riskier than other fighters because it is nerfed by rain. Even if you run sun Infernape just magnifys your weakness to Lati@s and Politoad and such.

 

[Stone RG]

Based on this, Tornadus-T is easily "S" tier and probably Garchomp too. If Terrakoin is S tier there is no reason Garchomp shouldnt be too.

Hippowdon to B tier. Yes it sets up Sandstorm, but he requires significant support to be effective. Hippo is setup bait for way too many threats to be on an offensive team (I've seen him on some, but eh).

Gothetelle to C tier. Gothetelle's movepool, stats, and typing are its "crippling flaws". Should not be in the same tier as Skarmory and friends.

Jolteon to D tier. Other than the super rare Sub+Pass set, Jolteon is complete crap. Electric is too bad of a type to lock yourself into nowadays. Its horrible movepool solidifies its place in the dreaded D tier.

Landerous-T to C tier. I dont have alot of experience with it but from what I've seen its mediocore. Resisting none of fire, water, rock, ice, dragon, or grass is not good. It checks alot of things but is setup bait for alot of other things.

Ferrothorn to A tier. It does its job most of the time.

Gastrodon to C tier. Its crippling flaw is its only really usefull against rain teams. With the fall of scarf Rotom-W there are few reasons to run Gastrodon over Tentacruel.

Conkeldurr to B tier. Professional hole puncher and check to many things.

Infernape to D tier. Just not worth it most of the time. Much riskier than other fighters because it is nerfed by rain. Even if you run sun Infernape just magnifys your weakness to Lati@s and Politoad and such.

Some of the points you mentioned i disagree with:

1. Tornadus is a possible suspect, since its only hard counter, namely sp defensive rachi loses to duggy, that is an extremely common partner thanks to TFL and Valentine's team (that everyone is using), however it depends a lot on rain and dugtrio to a lesser extent, making it non-self sufficent, as well as the new counters people are finding that are not duggy trap-fodder (zapdos, rotom w). Garchomp is more arguable, since both its hard counters get plain 2HKOd by specs magnezone, which has nice synergy with chomp, but you still need the opponent's priority user out of the way if you want to sweep with something like SubSalac chomp.

2. Since when is hippo set-up fodder for threats? It has Roar for them, and most sand balance teams greatly aprecciate a tank of Hippowdon's caliber, plus, every single weather inducer that doesnt have as much flaws as abomasnow is A-tier worth.

3. Gothitelle is a lot of times a stall team's nightmare, destroying skarmbliss by itself. HO teams need their sweepers to have free lead way for a sweep, and gothitelle does this work extremely well.

4. I agree with jolteon to D-tier tho, there's not a single one of his sets that seem good in this meta, and its ONLY niche is being able to outrun torn-t.

5. Landorus-T is mediocre when you look at him from the offensive point of view, when you switch it to a defensive point of view, you are looking at pokemon that hard counters the S-tier terrakion, forces innumerable switches, which lets him set up rocks, and grab momentum.

6. Ferrothorn just cannot handle the metagame of BW 2, it has to run a sp defensive to give rain issues, and even then the number of scalds and hurricanes make it an impossible work.

7. Gastro has lost the only thing it had which was handling rain, thanks to fucking specs torn in everyone of this team, i agree on that.

8. Conkeldurr is underrated mon, but just as you said, a proffesional hole puncher that gives almost every team nowadays issues.

9. Ape isnt exactly THE wallbreaker, but it still has good abilities in sun or HO teams, being an excellent scarfer (which i think its the only thing hes good at).

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Problem with Ferrothorn is that before it was hard to kill him without super-effective Fire or Fighting-type attacks, as Ferrothorn could handle almost every other type. However, Ferrothorn nowadays is also dying to strong, neutral attacks, like Landorus' Earh Power or Earthquake or Tornadus-T Hurricane. Also, Keldeo is a Water-type that can actually defeat Ferrothorn without any problems due to Secret Sword, as long as it avoids Power Whip or Thunder Wave. The new metagame was just too unfriendly for our metallic jackfruit, but nonetheless it is still one of the best hazard setters, and is one of the best Pokémon to cripple the opponent (with Thunder Wave or Leech Seed). I am still trying to find a place for him on my team.

 

[Electrolyte]

I am questioning the placement of Espeon. I feel that it should be in the B tier because of how effective it is at setting up on Stall and its ability to work well in many different kinds of teams. Its CM set is a real killer against Stall- with the same Speed, SpA, and SpDef of Latios- without the added weakness to Ice Shard priority. Its ability is also in general quite useful- as long as it can be fitted on the team well. Once Pursuit trappers and most physical attackers are gone, Espeon has no trouble sweeping at all. It might not have the typing of Lati@s, but its ability allows it to set up without fearing status or Taunts- which I think gives it enough viability to be raised to B-tier. Its Baton Pass is useful as well- as encore and taunt don't work on it, nor does Pursuit. It can set screens, fuck stall up, sweep, and Baton Pass. Definitely worth placing in the B tier.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Based on this, Tornadus-T is easily "S" tier and probably Garchomp too. If Terrakoin is S tier there is no reason Garchomp shouldnt be too.

Hippowdon to B tier. Yes it sets up Sandstorm, but he requires significant support to be effective. Hippo is setup bait for way too many threats to be on an offensive team (I've seen him on some, but eh).

Gothetelle to C tier. Gothetelle's movepool, stats, and typing are its "crippling flaws". Should not be in the same tier as Skarmory and friends.

Jolteon to D tier. Other than the super rare Sub+Pass set, Jolteon is complete crap. Electric is too bad of a type to lock yourself into nowadays. Its horrible movepool solidifies its place in the dreaded D tier.

Landerous-T to C tier. I dont have alot of experience with it but from what I've seen its mediocore. Resisting none of fire, water, rock, ice, dragon, or grass is not good. It checks alot of things but is setup bait for alot of other things.

Ferrothorn to A tier. It does its job most of the time.

Gastrodon to C tier. Its crippling flaw is its only really usefull against rain teams. With the fall of scarf Rotom-W there are few reasons to run Gastrodon over Tentacruel.

Conkeldurr to B tier. Professional hole puncher and check to many things.

Infernape to D tier. Just not worth it most of the time. Much riskier than other fighters because it is nerfed by rain. Even if you run sun Infernape just magnifys your weakness to Lati@s and Politoad and such.

My thoughts on Thundurus-Therian is that he falls into the B-Tier. Yes Thundurus-T is a great Choice Scarf user with a massive SpAtk stat to play around with, but we have to consider the current metagame and his flaws.
If you look at the A-Tier list and the B-Tier, a lot of Pokemon seem to resist his greatest STABs: Thunder and Thunderbolt. Mamoswine, Latios, Lati@s , Landorus, Breloom (not that he's going to take all that well), Garchomp, Celebi and Gastrodon all can take the move and respond appropriately. All of these Pokemon can outspeed or retailiate with a move that can KO Thundurus-T; it also doesn't help that he's real frail.
Another thing about Thundurus-T is that while he may have access to Volt Switch, Massive Power, and Choice Scarf viability, his typing really sucks *stealth rocks hint hint*. Unless you switch into every freakin' Electric move your opponent throws at you, your Thundurus-T is going to die very early in the game and most likely, before it has even made a large impact in your game. This honestly only leaves Thundurus-T as a great revenge killer with Choice Scarf.
Finally his coverage. Yea yea, he has HP Ice and Focus Miss and the occasional Grass Knot. But honestly, while they may have great coverage, they just don't have the "oomph" to KO his counters and checks.
Overall Thundurus-T is still very dangerous in the right hands.He can do massive damage and has a decent speed stat of 101. However, to be thrown in with the prestigious A-Tiers? I think maybe not this generation...Thundurus-T needs to take a fall to B-Tier

Speaking of Infernape and Jolteon, They're fine in their tiers. Jolteon is great; a high speed tier and alright STAB allow it to take on the speedy Starmie and Tornadus-T, easily demolishing them. It can use HP Ice if Duggy and Mence are really that big of a problem. Shadow Ball can hold against the Lati twins. Although it has a shit movepool, it's still decent enough for Jolteon to be used successfully. B-Tier does Jolteon justice. But that's just what I think.
As for Infernape, it's a good wallbreaker for a sun team, if not the best. Scarf is a great set, and it can demolish both physical and special walls alike. Anyways, since rain does in fact neuter Infernape, I'd still say C-Tier for Ape.

And I agree with Thundy-T for B-Tier. It's speed is way too trollish (Outsped by Terrakion and the Latis), not to mention it's too frail. More than enough to take it down. I nominate B-Tier for Thundurus-T.

And since we're also doing lower tier mons as well, I'd like to nominate Scrafty for C-Tier. As much as I like it, this metagame is really against Scrafty. He has amazing coverage, two awesome boosting moves, and two awesome abilities, allowing him to very easily decimate teams. But, however, he needs at least +2 if he wants to get through Rachi, who would otherwise cripple him and spam HAX IRON HEAD. And Torn-T outspeeds and kills him. Likewise, Hippowdon can take a hit and phaze. So while Scrafty is a solid Pokemon, he needs some support. So C-Tier it is for one of my faves.

Stoutland, likewise, gets B-Tier in my opinion. With Sand he's an amazing revenge killer. Awesome speed, good bulk, and great coverage. What else could you ask for? His only issue is his need of sand, but that can be remedied with a little team support. So B-Tier for Stout.

Likewise, Hippowdon can stay A-Tier. He is a stellar physical wall who can phaze and set up Stealth Rock, while also doing something back (Or, should I say, physical tank). He has good synergy with Sand Teams as well. So his place in A-Tier is well deserved.

 

[Lady Alex]

I tend to agree that Thundurus-T should be moved down to B-Tier. Honestly, Jolteon does most of what Thundurus-T does, but has a way better speed tier that's extremely useful in this metagame. One thing that Thundurus-T has over jolteon is access to focus blast, but aside from tyranitar, there aren't many things that aren't almost just as threatened by a STAB Thunder anyway. It does have access to Nasty Plot, but because it's so frail, Thundurus is going to find itself hard pressed to find an opportunity to set up. Jolteon also doesn't have a weakness to stealth rock, which is one of the things that really limits Thundurus-T's potential in a team.

I think Stoutland belongs in C-Tier, to be honest. It's true that it can indeed a great revenge killer, but it is completely dependent on sand to do so. There are a lot of defensive pokemon that can handle most of what Stoutland wants to throw out, and, in many cases it comes down to a 50/50 of whether or not you would get the hit you needed (IE "Should I fire fang expecting the switch to ferrothorn, or should I just go ahead and use return since they might fodder the pokemon that's already in anyway?") It also has a weakness to mach punch, one of the most common priority moves right now, which is something that should definitely be taken into consideration

 

[Chou Toshio]

So, I think there are some UU Pokemon that also deserve a spot on this list unless I'm mistaken.

The biggest, most obvious candidate is probably:

If you want to play an anti-weather / non-weather team, or you just want to troll Rain players really really hard in this metagame, Kingdra is probably your go-to guy. Basic story... if Ferrothorn goes down, GG.

Well, that's not true... Kingdra has problems with Tentacruel, Gastrodon, Vaporeon, and Special Defensive Jirachi too, but offensive rain is so prevalent, and Tenta/Gastrodon/Vappy/Jirachi don't exactly want to keep switching into Specs attacks from the wrong end the whole game (Jirachi especially doesn't WANT to switch into a Rain + Specs Hydro Pump).

And yes, I'd promote Timid Specs Kingdra as the best Kingdra set for OU now. Sure, that's because in part it seems a lot of players don't KNOW that Kingdra can out speed and OHKO their Rotoms and Brelooms. Sure, that's because a lot of people don't KNOW that Kingdra can OHKO their Hippo or Skarm, and don't instinctively switch in a very, very, very, rare Blissey. Also people tend to let their ferrothorn die way too easily, just because it got up a layer or two of hazards.

outspeeding and OHKO'ing Tornadus, Thundurus, Keldeo, etc. and OHKO'ing them (2hko in Keldeo's case...), and also packing bulk comperable/better than Rotom-W... rain teams find themselves on the wrong end of the reason for the drizzle+swift swim ban.


And it's not like Specs Kingdra is dead weight against not-rain. It's very anti-weather in general.

Sun Teams tend to carry very few steel types, and have a very hard time dealing with 4x Fire Resist + Specs STAB Draco Meteor.

Against sand... well bulky, fairly fast, super powerful STAB water attacker is of course useful against them too.

True that against other non-weather teams Kingdra's nothing special, but it's hardly dead weight either. Well worth it's ass kicking on rain and good use against sun and sand. Plus, you could always pack your own rain dancer... never a bad choice in this meta.

Plus, it can add a whole different dimension to your Drag-Mag team.

I'd say Kingdra could take a spot in C for being incredibly useful in the right situation, or with the right support. At least a D rank though for sure.