-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
The Real New OU List
- Thread starter X-Act
- Start date
still, pokemon are OU for a reason, so I find no reason to say that ANY of them are "weak" or bad at what they do, because they are the most used....
I still stand by if what you want isnt OU, use it. lol. Now for the nitpicking.
What part of that whole usage discussion dont you understand?
The reason Jolty cant play other roles isnt at all because its weak, its because its movepool consits of its standard set and a small selection of crap moves like Pin Missile. Also, You WOULD think that Wobby and Deoxys would get a shitton of usage, but the reason the abuse is small and sketch is because our tierlist has them in limbo. If we slapped them in OU just like shoddy did then they probably would be abused all over the place. Wobby at least, Deoxys-S is worthless IMO.
Again, what part of that whole usage discussion dont you understand? If you want Weezing to be OU so bad, use it. It's been said repeatedly in the joke thread, there's absolutely no drawback to being in a lower tier, if a pokemon is sitting in the BL tier, its basically a OU pokemon with not as much notariety. I dont get what the criping is about.
Oh well, people are still using it. I guess your opinion doesn't match the masses.
[/end nitpicks]
EDIT:
What part of that whole usage discussion dont you understand?
The reason Jolty cant play other roles isnt at all because its weak, its because its movepool consits of its standard set and a small selection of crap moves like Pin Missile. Also, You WOULD think that Wobby and Deoxys would get a shitton of usage, but the reason the abuse is small and sketch is because our tierlist has them in limbo. If we slapped them in OU just like shoddy did then they probably would be abused all over the place. Wobby at least, Deoxys-S is worthless IMO.
Again, what part of that whole usage discussion dont you understand? If you want Weezing to be OU so bad, use it. It's been said repeatedly in the joke thread, there's absolutely no drawback to being in a lower tier, if a pokemon is sitting in the BL tier, its basically a OU pokemon with not as much notariety. I dont get what the criping is about.
Oh well, people are still using it. I guess your opinion doesn't match the masses.
[/end nitpicks]
EDIT:
Me said:
Specs jolt + rain + thunder = sweep
the bolded part is what a decent battler should do. otherwise, yeah, theyre boned.
the new list seems to include some odd choices that i wouldnt consider OU, but i dont see why people are bitching about ______ not being OU. you can still use it in OU
if you want. it just means other people arent using it as often. its as if people think that when something is demoted to BL, they lose 20 points from each base stat or something.
And somone attempting to sweep with a choice user should make sure that it's counters are dead before attempting the sweep.
Poor Mekkah got infracted to the point he could be banned for posts in the april fools thread =[ its all fun and games until someone gets banned
Also
This new list is good looks fairly accurate judging from what I've seen
Also
X-Act you should be like the guy on numbers and use maths to stop crimes, predict murders or something. That would be hectic.
This new list is good looks fairly accurate judging from what I've seen
yeah, that makes sense. ive been out thunk.
anyways, onto discussion about smoethingother than jolteon.
well, i was gonig over the list and made an observation. as far as i could tell, there was only one pure special attacker. two if you count yanmega, but he could be counted as support since most of the time, they will sleep first and sweep after. but other than those two, all other special attackers have other jobs they can fulfill other than sweeping.
azelf and gengar can both take out blissey with a well timed explosion, and gengar can support the team with hypnosis, or sacrifice itself with a destiny bond.
heatran, and suicune both have common roles as status absorbers, and suicune can phaze in the process (hopefully).
both infernape and lucario can go mixed, or choiced.
togekiss, who can provide para support, NP boosts, or flinchaxing.
i noticed that of the two pure special attackers, only one of them has a chance of beating bliss 1 on 1 (specs adaptability hyper beam ftw).
all others either had to go mixed, run explosion, or just run away when confronted by bliss. this is just an obsrvation i made though, so discuss, or ignore, i couldnt care less.
also while typing it up, i started wondering whether tenta usage will drop with the loss of roserade and the stall craze wearing off.
anyways, onto discussion about smoethingother than jolteon.
well, i was gonig over the list and made an observation. as far as i could tell, there was only one pure special attacker. two if you count yanmega, but he could be counted as support since most of the time, they will sleep first and sweep after. but other than those two, all other special attackers have other jobs they can fulfill other than sweeping.
azelf and gengar can both take out blissey with a well timed explosion, and gengar can support the team with hypnosis, or sacrifice itself with a destiny bond.
heatran, and suicune both have common roles as status absorbers, and suicune can phaze in the process (hopefully).
both infernape and lucario can go mixed, or choiced.
togekiss, who can provide para support, NP boosts, or flinchaxing.
i noticed that of the two pure special attackers, only one of them has a chance of beating bliss 1 on 1 (specs adaptability hyper beam ftw).
all others either had to go mixed, run explosion, or just run away when confronted by bliss. this is just an obsrvation i made though, so discuss, or ignore, i couldnt care less.
also while typing it up, i started wondering whether tenta usage will drop with the loss of roserade and the stall craze wearing off.
sarcasm? if not, just to let you know it was obviously part of the joke too...
^I thought Mekkah "Could've been banned!" before the thread even started.
Cool. I was able to reproduce the list (once I remembered that Deoxys-S and Wobbuffet were in Limbo). I have no problems with it.
EDIT: On a side note, looking through all of the usages, the only non-Uber Pokemon that has not been used in Ladder Play is Loudred. Poor Loudred...
EDIT: On a side note, looking through all of the usages, the only non-Uber Pokemon that has not been used in Ladder Play is Loudred. Poor Loudred...
Haha, good joke, and now I really feel like an idiot. I'm glad to see Gallade up there, and umbreon out of there.
how on earth did you determine such a thing o_o
I compiled the Shoddy usage statistics in an Excel spreadsheet. God that took forever... @_@
I'm still confused as to why Ninjask is still OU :( It's completely shut down by any kind of phazer, extremely niche in terms of useability, and everyone has an answer to it. Sure, it can pull off a successful Baton Pass if you give it an Ingrain passing smeargle and a spinner to support it, or just pass to a Cradily/Octillery or something, but anything can be useable with the right amount of support.
As long as players continue to use Ninjask, it will continue to be OU.
Why players continue to use Ninjask is another matter probably better suited for a separate thread.
Why players continue to use Ninjask is another matter probably better suited for a separate thread.
For those that don't understand why we base on usage:
The usage of a pokemon usually is a good indication of it's power. For example, nobody really uses Flygon anymore, because Garchomp outclasses it. Now people want to win the game. Naturally they will use the stronger option. So if all those Flygon users switch to Garchomp then naturally Garhcomp will become OVERUSED.
He would not be OU if it weren't for his power/movepool/etc...
That is just one of many examples.
The usage of a pokemon usually is a good indication of it's power. For example, nobody really uses Flygon anymore, because Garchomp outclasses it. Now people want to win the game. Naturally they will use the stronger option. So if all those Flygon users switch to Garchomp then naturally Garhcomp will become OVERUSED.
He would not be OU if it weren't for his power/movepool/etc...
That is just one of many examples.
I'd like to note a big "JOG OFF" (Hot Fuzz Reference, if you don't get it, JOG OFF) to those who claim Kingdra is useless without the rain. Those persons never tried a DDancing set with added Draco Meteor, or a Specs Sniper set. Fireworks people, fireworks.
But yeah, pretty obvious OU list. But maybe I should whore out Gardevoir a bit more >.<
But yeah, pretty obvious OU list. But maybe I should whore out Gardevoir a bit more >.<
Key word is usually. There are always exceptions to rules.
For instance, would you say Donphan (42nd) is a better physical wall than Tangrowth (66th) or Slowbro (65th)? Both of those have access to status afflicting moves, an instant recovery move, vital physical resistances, and decent offensive capabilities to boost, while donphan's advantages lie in Rapid Spin, SR and a rock resistance.
Similarly, are Aerodactyl (53rd) and Ambipom (61st) so much better than Staraptor (71st) or Azumarill (73rd)? Is Jolteon (38th) a better batton passer than Ninjask (44th) or a better special sweeper than Raikou (69th)?
We go by statistics because it is clearly a) the easiest and most reliable way and b) relatively non-biased and factual. Nevertheless, every system has its flaws.
everyone's glad to see Arcanine go ;). Its actually well done, the only surprise for me was to see Weezing go and maybe Gallade get in. ^^
one thing that worries me about making an algorhythm that treats usage patterns as smooth functions is that it can't really account for oddities like obi posting a tenta team, bologo hyping shaymin and ipl adding zapdos to his stall team.
however one aspect that really interests me is mapping one poke's usage vs another, where the one poke being more present would drive the other's usage down (for example, celebi and breloom, bronzong and mammoswine) to refine predictions on a whole.
not sure if this is a consideration at all but it sounds interesting to me, since potentially it could also be expanded to groups of pokes (bulky waters vs heatran or something)
i dunno how ambiguous this post is ah
the opinion of the collective battlers on shoddy determines the tiers, not your theorymon. I'm not saying i disagree with your points (i think donphan is garbage this gen) but we are not going to base the tiers on theorymon when you have cold hard stats provided by colin.
if you want to prove your point, start using tangrowth or something. seriously im getting tired of you disagreeing with the stats. They're there, and they're the exact definition of what we should be basing OU vs UU on.
however one aspect that really interests me is mapping one poke's usage vs another, where the one poke being more present would drive the other's usage down (for example, celebi and breloom, bronzong and mammoswine) to refine predictions on a whole.
not sure if this is a consideration at all but it sounds interesting to me, since potentially it could also be expanded to groups of pokes (bulky waters vs heatran or something)
i dunno how ambiguous this post is ah
the opinion of the collective battlers on shoddy determines the tiers, not your theorymon. I'm not saying i disagree with your points (i think donphan is garbage this gen) but we are not going to base the tiers on theorymon when you have cold hard stats provided by colin.
if you want to prove your point, start using tangrowth or something. seriously im getting tired of you disagreeing with the stats. They're there, and they're the exact definition of what we should be basing OU vs UU on.
assuming this is true, then shouldnt there be an exception to the rule that there is always an exception to a rule?
sorry, just arguing semantics.
its fucking 4 thirty where i live, just drank a bottle and a half of energy drink cuz i thought a history paper would take longer than it did, but i was wrong, and now im wide awake.