The Ultimate discussion - Best lead?

Status
Not open for further replies.

PWNstar!

I know there have been a lot of threads on this, but still, it's a very good discussion point. What actually is the best/most effective lead?

I'm having trouble with leads ATM. So far, I have been using the "Sturdy" Mesprit set (From the analysis) with great results but it has seemed to fail quite recently.

But what is the best lead?
 
Gmax

Gmax

kuahahahaha
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
There is no 'best' lead. Each lead can be countered by another, and your leads should vary depending on what suits your team best.

For example, if I'm running a team that depends on indirect damage, I start off with a Stealth Rocker or a Spiker.
 
Lee

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
We're getting a thread like this every week now and they all quickly degenerate into a spamfest of "I use this!" and "I like this!" and none of us learn anything from it. So, if you don't mind, I'm gonna hijack this thread and ask:

In your opinion, what should the ideal lead possess?

A lead is obviously very important as I'm sure we all know - a match can be won and lost based on who's the first to come out the Pokeball. With that in mind, I think that an ideal lead should possess several of the following traits:

- Faster than Breloom: We've all saw the Breloom lead before and the last thing we want is to lose a Pokemon to sleep in the very first turn, and let the mushroom get his Sub up. For that reason, I try to get my leads up to 240 speed. It's not always convenient to outspeed Jolly Breloom though...

- Taunt: An excellent move that shuts down so many other leads. I can't speak highly enough of it but we all know how it works. Bronzong falls apart, Breloom can't Spore/Sub/Seed, Gyarados can't DD and Ninjask has to switch out like a commoner. Perhaps the best part is those annoying Stealth Rocks don't get in on the first turn (seriously, fuck you Hippowdon.)

- Varied movepool: Ideally, you'd want to hit super-effectively on a lot of the common leads. Electric, Ice, Fighting, Dark and Ghost attacks tend to cover a lot of common leads such as Gyarados, Salamence, Tyranitar, Weavile, Hippowdon, Breloom and Gengar.

With those points in mind, I've been using Gallade as a lead recently. It's been working okay, but not as great as I'd hoped for. What components do you think a lead should possess?
 

SHUCKLE MAN

In Shoddy Battle ladder play, the 10 most common leads are
  1. Gyarados (8392 leads)
  2. Hippowdon (7493 leads)
  3. Salamence (6600 leads)
  4. Gengar (6402 leads)
  5. Tyranitar (6061 leads)
  6. Bronzong (5137 leads)
  7. Weavile (5054 leads)
  8. Swampert (5050 leads)
  9. Infernape (4276 leads)
  10. Abomasnow (4264 leads)
So basically make sure you can at least outspeed and 1HKO Gyarados with your own lead.
 

pervysenin

Only problem is ambipom lacks the power to pose much of a threat. I kinda like slaking as a lead, except he gets screwed with subs and jask leads. T-punch and ice punch fuck up gara and mence respectvly, and pursuit puts the hurt on gengar. Return hits anything else on the list hard except for bronzong and T-tar.
 
Evil Hamster

Evil Hamster

I quite like using Fake Out Ampibom as a lead. LO, Technician, STAB Fake Out does a surprising amount of damage to some of the more frail leads, like Weavile and Infernape. Breaks Sashes too.
 

Agahnim

Never noticed a list of top 10 leads existed. I would say that a lead should be able to not get completely owned by most common leads. It also depends on the rest of your team. If you are running a sandstorm team, its a good idea to lead with hippowdon/ttar.
 

SHUCKLE MAN

Agahnim said:
Never noticed a list of top 10 leads existed. I would say that a lead should be able to not get completely owned by most common leads. It also depends on the rest of your team. If you are running a sandstorm team, its a good idea to lead with hippowdon/ttar.
Click to expand...
They didn't until today. Last month the only statistics lists were the overall usage of Pokemon. I wonder if they the most popular movesets on each Pokemon too...
 

rkatzam

SHUCKLE MAN said:
In Shoddy Battle ladder play, the 10 most common leads are
  1. Gyarados (8392 leads)
  2. Hippowdon (7493 leads)
  3. Salamence (6600 leads)
  4. Gengar (6402 leads)
  5. Tyranitar (6061 leads)
  6. Bronzong (5137 leads)
  7. Weavile (5054 leads)
  8. Swampert (5050 leads)
  9. Infernape (4276 leads)
  10. Abomasnow (4264 leads)
So basically make sure you can at least outspeed and 1HKO Gyarados with your own lead.
Click to expand...
Choice Scarf PorygonZ comes to mind when looking at this list, lol.
 

Davy

Anti said:
Ice Punch / ThunderPunch / Pursuit / Double Hit or Taunt Ambipom, anyone?
Click to expand...
^^ A really good lead...

BTW, an ambipom with pursuit and fake out, kills zam easy.
Pursuit kills genar
Ice punch for dragons
Thunder Punch for G-Dos
 

Ransen

I use Ambipom as my lead in my normal mono team.
Ambipom@FocusSash Taunt/DoubleHit/Counter/U-turn

Taunt is to stop slower pokemon from setting up (eg Breloom Spore, Swampert SR, Gyrados lol?)
DoubleHit is for Jolteons and Ninjask who sub up
Counter is for Weavile,Apes and Swampert after Taunt. Hippo cannot be taken down by this though
U-turn is for anything else it can't handle.

Works pretty well so far.
 

Phatkav

I personally find Taunt leads to be quite effective. They stop the like of Hypnosis, Stealth Rock, Sub, Spore, etc.

The more sturdy or fast the lead is, the better he is. That's why I prefer Crobat or Gyarados leads.

Also try to usually run leads that don't OHKO easily as I don't think anyone would like to start a match at a complete disadvantage.
 

Blln

My favorite type of lead that I've used so far is a fast U-turner. If you have an unfavorable matchup you can get the hell out while still doing some damage, not to mention nullifying sashes, and if you have a favorable matchup, you can U-turn on their switch to their counter and capitolize on whatever they send out. I generally like a Scarfed Scizor or a Scarf/Band Starpator here.

Another pretty effective thing I've tried ;eading with is just to use something really unexpected, like stuff randomly Scarfed or Specsed. I can't tell you how many kills my Scarfed Leafstorm / HP Ice / EQ / Sleep Powder Venusaur got just because nobody expected i to outspeed them, and would proceed to lose their lead. It's also pretty funny going offensive with something usually passive. I lead with a Choice Specs Tangrowth once, and it really tore shit up.

But these leads are risky, and often unrewarding. Not something I'd use in a tournament. It's probably best to start with something generally bulky all around, with few weaknesses, and can do something useful early match, like Bronzong, Swampert, etc
 
Age of Kings

Age of Kings

of the Ash Legion
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
77. Porygon2 (354 leads)

I figure that I make up about 90% of this statistic. xD

What a lead should possess, hm? I have two words for you, no matter what you're using.

LUM. BERRY.
 

Mr.Squishy007

I usually lead with a magmortar yanmega or slaking.I like magmortar alot because apart from being able to taunt he also beats a good amount of common starters.
 

SHUCKLE MAN

rkatzam said:
Choice Scarf PorygonZ comes to mind when looking at this list, lol.
Click to expand...
Funnily enough that's what first came to my mind too. Thing is, now we have this, it's only a matter of time until someone creates a moveset that can counter 7 of the top 10 leads or something, and then people will use them less, and next month the top 10 leads will completely change, and we'll have to find a new 'anti-lead' again.
 

864today

I Love My Infernape lead...

Infernape @ Choice Band
Naive @ 180 Atk, 76 SpAtk, 252 Spd
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Overheat
- Thunder Punch

Will always 2HKO bulky dos with thunder punch. Mach punch kills weavile and Overheat owns the Physical Wall leads. Seems good enough. I also have a Stone Edge Gyarados to finish the gyardos off after getting one hit.

Can't take every lead but I like it.
 
xBLUEx

xBLUEx

Lee said:
We're getting a thread like this every week now and they all quickly degenerate into a spamfest of "I use this!" and "I like this!" and none of us learn anything from it. So, if you don't mind, I'm gonna hijack this thread and ask:

In your opinion, what should the ideal lead possess?

A lead is obviously very important as I'm sure we all know - a match can be won and lost based on who's the first to come out the Pokeball. With that in mind, I think that an ideal lead should possess several of the following traits:

- Faster than Breloom: We've all saw the Breloom lead before and the last thing we want is to lose a Pokemon to sleep in the very first turn, and let the mushroom get his Sub up. For that reason, I try to get my leads up to 240 speed. It's not always convenient to outspeed Jolly Breloom though...

- Taunt: An excellent move that shuts down so many other leads. I can't speak highly enough of it but we all know how it works. Bronzong falls apart, Breloom can't Spore/Sub/Seed, Gyarados can't DD and Ninjask has to switch out like a commoner. Perhaps the best part is those annoying Stealth Rocks don't get in on the first turn (seriously, fuck you Hippowdon.)

- Varied movepool: Ideally, you'd want to hit super-effectively on a lot of the common leads. Electric, Ice, Fighting, Dark and Ghost attacks tend to cover a lot of common leads such as Gyarados, Salamence, Tyranitar, Weavile, Hippowdon, Breloom and Gengar.

With those points in mind, I've been using Gallade as a lead recently. It's been working okay, but not as great as I'd hoped for. What components do you think a lead should possess?
Click to expand...
i agree with this 100%.
 
Maxwell

Maxwell

I start with Umbreon in standard. I did some research and found the overall best starter IMO.

Latios @ soul dew
Modest
252 spe att, 252 spe def, 4 HP
Dragonpulse
Grass Knot
Draco Meteor
Momento
 

Hyra

is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
As an alternative to outspeeding Breloom, you could lead with a Sleep Talker / Insomnia (lol) Pokemon. Or just make sure your lead is something you wouldn't mind getting slept (anyone remember Choice Scarf Hypnosis Gengar?). Honestly, it depends on your team.
 

Kamikaze Korean

I've always thought that Staraptor makes a good lead. Brave Bird/Double Edge or Return/Close Combat means you can get a good strong hit off right away, U-Turn can be used to scout, Pursuit if you think they'll be scared off by it. I use Quick Attack on it as well, but that's more for later switch ins. It comes with Intimidate too, which can really help.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

  • ... and 1 more.
    • Top