Okay Jayque, thanks for posting that. However, bear with me while I ask about a couple hypothetical situations:
1. How exactly do you handle Fake Out? I can prevent you from getting up TR the first turn, which really hurts as that leaves either Solrock or Hippowdon (or, if Surf or Water Spout is used, both) wide open for an attack. Assuming Solrock is hit, your passho berry means very little as I can just finish you the next turn. Even if you protect, many of the popular water moves are multi-target and Hippowdon will die, and with Solrock, you just delay death by a turn.
2. What if I pack two pokemon with super effective moves? Let's say I ran Kyogre+Ludicolo. How would you stop a double surf? Grass Knot is also a common move and hits your entire team very hard, especially considering most of your pokemon are heavy.
Being new, I am not sure the proper etiquette to posting – but I figured there was no point in continuing the discussion in the Dallas VGC thread and I would move this to it’s own discussion – hope this is okay.
Someone responded back to you regarding fake out – and yes double protect was one option I utilized when seeing someone I knew carried a fake out. Option 2 was to go ahead and utilize EQ with Trick Room. If they flinched the TR they took the EQ, if they flinched the Hippo TR got off. The utilized strategy depended entirely on what I saw. Standard opener (if I saw no flinching) was to protect the Hippo while going for TR.
Someone mentioned the fact that they believed the element of surprise was the only reason I was successful. I agree 100%. You can plan for my team in advance and wipe it – for the most part… most weren’t prepared. Lets be honest though – you can plan for any team in advance – know there core strategy – and come up with exactly what it would take to beat it (in fact I did just that). I was counting on predictable play – known pokemon showing up – and people not be certain on Solrock/Hippos speed and other factors (I knew they would prep for Tyranitar and know him in and out, but Hippo and Solrock – doubtful).
This brings me to your second question – Ludicolo and Kyogre. This was a matchup that I dreaded. This was a matchup that I knew had the potential to hurt. This was also one I felt I could win mentally. Oh – and I am not certain when, but I faced this matchup somewhere between round 1 and 3. To take it back a step – when I first came up with this concept, I played my best friend and partner in brainstorming. Normally we bounce ideas off each other, but this time I told him I couldn’t tell him details, because if he knew the team it wouldn’t work. I beat him and the team played as designed – though at the time I utilized Armaldo for some strategic value I won’t disclose at this time (it was later I added the second explosion). Once he knew it – we tweaked the team together. He knew what I was going to do and I had to come up with ways to disrupt his foresight. At the time, I utilized dig as a second protect for the first explosion, and later realized that with lowering Regirocks speed I could get a second explosion off before the dig went off - something I figured NOBODY would see coming. I battled 20 different teams and strategies in a gauntlet of best of 5 matches. The team was 80% successful and I learned a lot on what would and would not work for the team. I still had concerns and fears, and only decided to roll with the team the morning of the tournament.
Back to Ludicolo/Ogre. I was counting, again, on surprise and the predicable nature of an opponent who is not certain what I am doing. I knew Ludicolo would fake out, and most likely go for the Solrock. Though I had a 50/50 chance they would make a poor decision here which would work to my favor (faking out the Hippo). Yes – he could have used a variety of moves that would have destroyed one or both pokes … but fake out opening is hard coded in many brains and with Ludi’s 70 base speed – most weren’t certain on priority … Hippo is slow, but how slow? I won the weather battle – but kyogre is base 90 speed – of course I won weather. Then Solrock – does it have more than 70 base speed? What if it blows up before the water/grass move goes off? I could kill him with spout, but crap he could be sashed, better fake out to be safe – then spout will kill him for certain as the sash is broken. This is the logic I was counting on.
Now, the spouting ogre takes a STAB EQ from Hippo cutting life in half. Crap – the Solrock is alive and in yellow. The Hippo is toast with 1 HP. Whatever will they do. I look in bad shape, and I expect there are many ways to look at the next part as luck, but I was fairly confident in the odds. A surf and spout kills me, but I figure the surf won’t happen for fear of the unknown. If they cripple their Ogre with surf, he’s toast and he’s the strength of team – already injured and fading in a sand storm (which pinged him moments ago to take him further down the route to useless spout). A second spout kills me – but they don’t know that … they know that I lived through the first and they are weaker now and the SS is still in effect. So I predict switch out of Ogre for safety. I also predict that the switch means they can’t protect against a surf – they have to use Grass Knot … they have to be cautious – do they go for the Quaker or the unknown Solrock. Oh yeah – and they are still not certain on move priority. I expect a switch out, with the assumption they can deal with the Solrock next round – here’s where it gets wide in the road and hard to discuss. I expect any Abomasnow in the back will come in for the switch of weather. I expect that most people don’t know Solrock’s weight – and move priority now they second guess Grass Knot – what if I live and explode… Aboma will switch the weather to hail – okay so I predict in their uncertainty – they utilize Blizzard instead of Grass Knot. Now Grass Knot will kill my Solrock and Hippo will die to the Hail – so to be safe, time to bring out my Tyranitar. I make the switch, giving me back the weather benefit and saving my hippo for later. Solrock – takes Blizzard (as predicted) – and gets of TR. Next round – protect and BOOM! And I once again have the turn order benefit from TR, another exploder and my just hanging on Hippo. With two down, and a Sand Stream in the back – I win the weather battle – again.
Now there are other scenarios – what if they grass knotted. And TR doesn’t get off. My SDF was high enough in SS to live through a variety of scenarios. I can’t explain them all. What I can say is that I hit some horrible matchups for my team - heavy grass, facing ghosts, etc. Making a last second decision to explode a guy for the 1 for 1 takedown knowing his Spiritomb would survive was difficult – but it was unpredictable and kept him off balance.
Yes – I was lucky. I could have been dismantled. People could have made different choices. Does that mean I ran skill free and I am “ridiculous” and “not very good”. The team was a one shot wonder. Laying it out means that most would likely be prepared and know how to handle it in the future. Which is why I made the painful decision to explain in more detail some of the logic. Regarding the team being easily beaten by a skilled trainer with the right team being able to wipe me – absolutely agree – but then again, you show me a team that when you are told the strategy employed in advance cannot be dismantled by the right set of four being matched and skillfully piloted against. I don’t believe it exists. What did exist, was a fresh concept which most failed to see until too late.