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Triple Battle Combo

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by PoSwords, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

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    Even if someone did "use" this strategy on youtube, you have no idea if it was no guard or they just got lucky. And since it was a patched version, there is always the possibility of something getting messed up... or changed on purpose.

    EDIT: Also, I couldn't find it.
  2. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    You've essentially just created my Triples team's theme for me :D, thanks! That strat sounds amazing, am totally gonna abuse it. Will need to prevent TR (unless I run min Spe Tran) as well as counter opposing weather and Wide Guard, however, which could be problematic.

    Did you see them abusing Skill Swap to get No Guard onto other mons? Could've been that I suppose.
  3. MinHawk

    MinHawk

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    Total Theorymon here, but...
    Whimsicott @Leftovers:
    Jolly 252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Def
    Tailwind
    U-Turn
    Protect
    Taunt

    Terakion @Focus Sash/Life Orb/Leftovers
    Jolly 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 Def/Sp. Def
    Close Combat
    Rock Slide
    Earthquake
    X-Scissor

    Weavile @Focus Sash/Life Orb
    Jolly 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 Def/Sp. Def
    Fake Out
    Protect
    Beat Up
    Ice Shard/Brick Break/Filler

    First turn, set up Tailwind with Whimsicott, Beat up on Terakion, and Rock Slide your way to victory. Any hard counters to this of note, besides TR?
  4. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    I've seen that combo in action on Random Wi-Fi, only with a different Beat Up user. I think I killed the Terrakion before it could do anything.
  5. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Just from looking at him, Lucario seems like a fantastic abuser of the moves which can hit from the opposite side of the field (Pulse moves along with tons of Flying ones) since he can NP up and proceed to sweep whatever he chooses, whilst being reasonably out of the way on one side. He also has an array of awesome support moves - Priority, Follow Me, Wide Guard, Heal Beam, hell, he just needs a tad more bulk and Fake Out and he'd be one of the best mons in the meta. Trying to fit him into my theorymonned Triples team atm.
  6. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    To avoid that, make sure that most of the other pokemon in your team have a low attack stat.
  7. MinHawk

    MinHawk

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    I was planning on pairing that up with CB Gyara, to cover the priority weakness of Terakion, CS Togekiss w/ Air Slash, Heat Wave, Aura Sphere, -Filler, to clean up Ferrethorn and other steels, and something else... but I forgot about the new mechanics of Beat Up, sooo any ideas for teammates to help cover the rest of the team? It seems like a fairly solid Triples team, in theory

    EDIT:
    Well, I've got at least a decent triples team going here:

    Weavile - Jolly @Focus Sash 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 Def
    Fake Out
    Beat Up
    Protect
    Taunt

    Whimsicott - Jolly @Mental Herb 252 HP/252 Speed/4 Def
    Protect
    Tailwind
    Taunt
    U-turn

    Terakion - Jolly @Life Orb 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 Def
    Earthquake
    Rock Slide
    Close Combat
    X-Scissor

    Gyarados - Adamant @Choice Band 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Def
    Waterfall
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Bounce

    Garchomp - Jolly @Choice Scarf 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    Earthquake
    Outrage
    Fire Fang
    Brick Break

    Togekiss - Modest @Choice Scarf/Life Orb/Leftovers - 252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed/4 Def (if CS) or 252 Sp. Atk/248 HP/ 8 Def (if LO or Lefties)
    Heat Wave
    Air Slash
    Tri Atack
    Aura Sphere

    Verrry theorymon here, but since the majority of triples players don't understand the threat, it is very difficult to stop. I haven't played triples on the actual game yet, (still RNG'ing for Terakion) but if there is indeed a Tailwind whimsicott on every team, Fake out from weavile should stop it, while terakion attacks and whimsicott sets up it's own tailwind. Against TR, it's essentially the same idea, fake out the TR user, setup tailwind, and then whimsicott taunts the TR user next turn as Weavile beats up Terakion, who begins his sweep. If the TR'er has mental herb, then Rock Slide better KO, needless to say.

    Gyarados is here because, while being outclassed by most gen V sweepers, it resists EVERY type of priority, except Sucker Punch and lolShadowsneak, and Terakion's biggest counter is priority. Band delivers bulk and power. Speed is not necessary due to tailwind, and Intimidate as the ability to mitigate damage later.

    The final two members are to help clean up on Pokes that resist Rock: Fighting, Steel, Ground types
    The biggest problems are quad resists, like Lucario, Cobalion, etc. So Togekiss comes in and flinch haxes everything to death, and ScarfChomp is there to just deal damage when possible, I hardly ever use him
  8. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Chansey/Blissey is a great Pokemon to use with its shit attack and is also a great special wall. Jellicent could also work thanks to your fire weakness shared by both Whimsicott and Weavile.
  9. MinHawk

    MinHawk

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    Check out this log with the above posted team:
    Show Hide
    Battle between [IMP]Minhawk and warans started!

    Rule: Unrated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Species Clause
    Rule: Wifi Battle

    warans sent out Cobalion! (Kobaruon)
    [IMP]Minhawk sent out Weavile!
    warans sent out Terrakion! (Terakion)
    [IMP]Minhawk sent out Terakion!
    warans sent out Virizion! (Birijion)
    [IMP]Minhawk sent out Erufuun!
    Weavile is exerting its Pressure!

    Start of turn 1
    Erufuun used Tailwind!
    A tailwind started blowing behind [IMP]Minhawk's team!

    Weavile used Beat Up!
    It's not very effective...
    Terakion lost 15 HP! (4% of its health)
    Terakion's Justice Heart raised its attack!
    Terakion lost 17 HP! (5% of its health)
    Terakion's Justice Heart raised its attack!
    A critical hit!
    Terakion lost 18 HP! (5% of its health)
    Terakion's Justice Heart raised its attack!
    Terakion lost 6 HP! (1% of its health)
    Terakion's Justice Heart raised its attack!
    Terakion lost 18 HP! (5% of its health)
    Terakion's Justice Heart raised its attack!
    Terakion lost 18 HP! (5% of its health)
    Terakion's Justice Heart raised its attack!
    Hit 6 times!

    Terakion used Rock Slide!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Cobalion lost 30% of its health!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Terrakion lost 86% of its health!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Virizion lost 100% of its health!
    The foe's Virizion fainted!
    Terakion is hurt by its Life Orb!

    The foe's Cobalion used Close Combat!
    It's super effective!
    Weavile lost 281 HP! (99% of its health)
    Weavile hung on using its focus sash!
    The foe's Cobalion's Defense fell!
    The foe's Cobalion's Sp. Def. fell!

    The foe's Terrakion flinched!

    The foe's Cobalion restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Terrakion restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    warans sent out Zekrom! (Zekuromu)

    The foe's Zekrom has TeraVoltage!

    Start of turn 2
    Weavile used Protect!
    Weavile protected itself!

    Erufuun used Protect!
    Erufuun protected itself!

    Terakion used Earthquake!
    Weavile protected itself!
    Erufuun protected itself!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Cobalion lost 75% of its health!
    The foe's Cobalion fainted!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Terrakion lost 19% of its health!
    The foe's Terrakion fainted!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Zekrom lost 100% of its health!
    The foe's Zekrom fainted!
    Terakion is hurt by its Life Orb!

    warans sent out Reshiram! (Reshiramu)

    warans sent out Zoroark! (Zoroaaku)

    The foe's Reshiram has Turbo Blaze!

    Start of turn 3
    Erufuun used Protect!
    Erufuun protected itself!

    Weavile used Beat Up!
    The foe's Reshiram lost 8% of its health!
    The foe's Reshiram lost 9% of its health!
    The foe's Reshiram lost 4% of its health!
    The foe's Reshiram lost 3% of its health!
    The foe's Reshiram lost 9% of its health!
    The foe's Reshiram lost 9% of its health!
    Hit 6 times!

    Terakion used Rock Slide!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Reshiram lost 55% of its health!
    The foe's Reshiram fainted!
    The foe's Zoroark lost 100% of its health!
    The foe's Zoroark fainted!
    Terakion is hurt by its Life Orb!

    [IMP]Minhawk won the battle!
    warans: jou won ): :
  10. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    OK, guys. Last night I got spanked by a Japanese player using a Beat Up/Justified team. I'll try to remember the details as best I can as a warning to others about how dangerous this strategy can be, although I think I may quit Pokemon after this.

    They led with a Staraptor, Sneasel, and Crobat.

    The Staraptor has Choice Scarf and Brave Bird (and, of course, Intimidate). It takes out Pokemon that could threaten Terrakion. Remember that Brave Bird can hit any Pokemon on the field.

    The Sneasel has Beat Up, Fake Out, and Feint. Why Sneasel instead of Weavile? Two reasons. First, lower Attack for Beat Up. Second, Sneasel can have Inner Focus to block Fake Out, which Weavile lacks.

    The Crobat has Tailwind.

    The team also has a Terrakion, of course, as well as the ever-irritating Intimidate/Fake Out/Escape Button Hitmontop.

    Can anyone think of a way to stop this? I did my darnedest and just got steamrolled. I even predicted really well, but my Mantine's Wide Guard was broken by Sneasel's Feint and Rock Slide just mauled my team. Physical attackers can't do crap, what with Staraptor and Hitmontop intimidating everything.

    I gotta tell you, it's pretty demoralizing.
  11. Virizion

    Virizion

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    I actually have all of those Pokes, albeit a different Whimsicott set. I can't change my current Whimsi set (it's my only one), so when I get another EV'ed Whimsicott, I'll try that out. :P
  12. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    As with most threats in doubles, the thing that immediately comes to mind is TR. You'd have to go with some pretty insane team support to keep TR up in most situations, and be forced to use a Ghost TR setter with Mental Herb to avoid Crobat's Taunt and Weavile's Fake Out. Not only this, but you'd have to go for a specially based team to help against the flurry of Intimidates coming your way.

    That said, I do have the feeling that Triples is somewhat coming down to Tailwind VS TR in the end. Tailwind outclasses weather since it has abusers who are faster than any SwSwer or Chlorophyller, and TR naturally beats it if it can get up and stay up.

    I'm thinking about another type of team - as opposed to an offensive one a bulky hard hitting one abusing say Surf and Water absorb to stay alive in the face of such threats, and saccing speed for bulk. The problem, as always, is being OHKOd before getting a chance to attack, however. Does anyone think this kinda thing could work?
  13. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    It might, and more power to you if it does. I'm hoping that there's more to Triples than just Tailwind vs. Trick Room, but I guess we'll see.

    Tailwind's got a lot of advantages as you say. Unlike weather and Trick Room, it's guaranteed to only help your team. It has two Prankster users who also learn a bunch of other offensive and defensive support moves.

    Tailwind does have a weakness that weather and Trick Room don't and that I haven't seen anyone latch onto yet: it can be snatched. Snatch hasn't been widely used in generations past, even in Doubles. But with Tailwind, Reflect, and Light Screen being more powerful and common in Triples than any other battle format, I think Snatch bears serious consideration.

    Two other things I've discovered:

    1. According to the move data, Snatch can steal Wide Guard and Quick Guard.

    2. Snatch can steal a move even from a non-adjacent target. I've tested it myself.
  14. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    I hope not too, and hopefully if people get more into it they'll be able to anti-meta it with stuff like Snatch etc.

    About weather, yeah I can see it being used as the sort of balance of Triples (rain especially) with Water move spam for instance combined with Feint for WG, since it has a fair few bulky abusers and obviosuly gives excellent benefits aside from boosted speed.

    Snatch seems awesome as well! In fact, it seems like GF decided to pick all the useless support moves last gen and buff them to make them work excellently in doubles/triples lol. Snatching Wide/Fast Guard is incredibly helpful (especially when outspeeding FO and Follow Me) from anywhere on the field no less. Snatching TW seems risky, given that Whim and Torn both may carry Taunt as well, letting them TW the next turn (though I suppose you could take advantage of them being forced to Taunt or lose the TW with another mon). Man, Triples really is looking to become an incredibly complex meta, and I like the look of it a lot. Moreover, noone has any clue who the common users of Snatch are, letting you abuse it to its fullest when not playing the same person over and over at least.
  15. Virizion

    Virizion

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    I use a Timid Snatch Deoxys-S, it was awesome in PBR, it stole Dark Voids, Spores, Softboileds, etc. Snatch has tons of potential, but nobody ever uses it :L
  16. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    Exactly. And as mentioned in the Snatch thread, Zoroark learns it, so even if none of your three leads looks like it could have Snatch, it could.

    I've found that Tailwind use is pretty predictable. It almost always happens on the first turn. You could get Taunted, sure, but a lot of the users of Snatch are also competent attackers, so it might be a waste to Taunt them. Furthermore, if your Snatch-user starts the match non-adjacent to the Tailwind/Taunt user, you can steal Tailwind, but they can't Taunt you. Going on Theorymon alone, I'd say this equation comes down on the side of Snatch.

    Oh man, I can see it now. Forget Intimidate/Fake Out/Escape Button Hitmontop. I'm gonna use an Intimidate/Snatch/Escape Button Arbok.
  17. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Oh god. Zoroark with Snatch masquerading as something noone would ever Taunt sounds hilariously brilliant.

    You're right about TW though now I think about it. Moreover, if they do use their turn to Taunt you, chances are you have something which can fairly easily OHKO it that turn (as long as you avoid FO) - or in the case of Whim who is bulkier, since pretty much all usable flying moves hit anywhere on the field.

    Hmmm, sleep moves are rare in doubles when playing with the clause, but without it I can imagine that being amazing - sleeping the foes team rather than your own XD.


    Anyway, some things I've been thinking about: Rage/Anger Powder or whatever the move is Tangrowth works well with Sun (though Sun<TW) since it becomes the fastest user of the move in the game, beating all FO users too.

    Really wanna utilise a NP Luke with Dark Pulse/Aura Sphere/Vacuum Wave or Dragon Pulse - having awesome power but the ability to hit anywhere on the field as well (or nice priority). Seems like it'd work quite nicely with TW and/or a Follow Me user.

    And lastly, I think Screens are possibly undervalued in Triples. Halving all incoming damage from one side is invaluable, you may only need LS if you pack intimidate abusers, 5 turns is a reasonable amount in doubles, Brick Break is nowhere to be seen, and a ton of pokes can learn the moves and fire them off unexpectedly. With spread moves already being weakened, it seems like a screen would be very useful in making them pretty much ineffective, and combined with follow me could give your mons some great opportunities to setup or just stay alive really.
  18. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    Dark Void and Spore can't be stolen by Snatch.

    Keep in mind that screens only halve damage if you have one Pokemon on your side of the field. In 4th gen, they reduced damage to 2/3 if you had two Pokemon. I'm guessing it's still 2/3 if you have three, but nobody's tested it yet to my knowledge.

    Still, they are very powerful. I've seen them used to great effect. You'd think Triples would be even more fast-paced than Doubles, but with the sheer number of things you can do in a single turn to mitigate damage, it hasn't worked out that way.
  19. Virizion

    Virizion

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    Really? It must've been something else I stole then, either that or Snatch works different for PBR, cuz I swear I remember stealing Dark Voids somehow.. Maybe it was Magic Coat, not Snatch. Whatever it was, it worked awesomely, with all the Uber-abusers running around relying on Darkrai.

    It did steal Blissey Softboileds then Taunted them though. I used to run Psycho Boost on it cuz it needs all the power it can get, but I deleted it for Safeguard. Now, its moveset is Taunt/Snatch/T-Wave/Safeguard, it's pretty good, I've been wanting to try it in a Standard battle.

    Anyways, it was hilarious bouncing back Dark Void, then them disconnecting right after.

    However, if I were to create a Triples team, what strategy should I use? Like, what's the "best" overall strategy? I only have a suckish Sandstorm team right now :L

    EDIT: A Triples battle for Random Matchup, not Standard, so no Kyurem/Deoxys :P
  20. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    I was trying to think of other combos like the Weavile with Justice heart users and I thought of a few alternatives I think...

    Skill link Cincinno (when it is released) using bullet seed on Azumarril with Sap Sipper (wow what a bad name, herbivore was better)?

    Puts Azumarril at 763 attack if all 5 hits hit.

    The other option I thought of is using Kabutops with Weak Armor and having a Sneasel, or a Girafarig use Double Hit on him. Raising his speed by double.

    I don't play multi battles often but I figure if you use Sneasel or Girafarig you can probably get a double hit off on Kabutops because they have inner focus and can not get flinched by fake out. If in some way Kabutops can set up a swords dance and get hit twice he will have +2/+2.

    These are probably way too situational, but I figured it might be kind of fun. I personally run a weak armor Kabutops on my drizzle team who runs focus sash and swords dance and aqua jet, and he does fairly awesome.

    EDIT: In addition to this... what if Kabutops used protect and another pokemon on your team used FEINT on him, which goes through protect yet defends him against enemies...?
  21. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Just done some preliminary testing for my theorymonned Bulky SurfSpam team. My god is it fun, and not only that but it works too, from what I've seen (not played TR yet but anyway). People just cannot get past the epic passive recovery you have, as well as the massive bulk not running max SpAtk and instead running HP or defences EVs rather than any Spe at all (there's only about 60 Spe EVs on the team total) gives you.

    You need a reasonable amount of team support - Feint in particular to break Wide Guard as well as ways past the various water immune mons, but at first glance, this definitely seems like it could work well. Screens have been working out nicely too, even without Light Clay, which is pretty awesome.

    If only anything with Volt Absorb/Motor Drive learned Submerge so I could hit Grounds I'd try the same with Discharge spam...

    EDIT @ RaRa: I have a feeling Feint breaks protect - so other mons would be able to hit Kabutops too. If not, then awesome, however.

    Second edit: HOLY CRAP Seaking gets Soak and Lightningrod...... :DDD
  22. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
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    Heh, yeah, I was going to mention that. Seaking finally comes into its own.

    Your SurfSpam team sounds pretty nice. You're using Dry Skin Toxicroak for Feint, I assume? Or is there another Surf-immune user I'm forgetting?
  23. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Yeah, nothing else gets it unfortunately who is immune to water. I was shocked to learn that absolutely nothing released with Water Absorb gets Screens - but fortunately I remembered Telepathy now exists. Also a shame Rain Dish doesn't do the same as Dry Skin as well - Ludicolo would be invaluable for Fake Out and Grass/Elec neutrality :\.

    But yeah seems to be doing reasonably well VS the common doubles team, Screens, auto recovery (almost) and defensive EVs really make the difference in staying alive longer than the opposing team, whilst wearing them away with repeated surfs along with the odd coverage move.
  24. Virizion

    Virizion

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    But Ludi 4x resists Water, so your Surfs will be doing next to nothing to him (not sure about in rain however)
  25. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Or, instead of a Mental Herb Ghost setting TR, you could use Inner Focus Girafarig. Girafarig also can learn Beat Up.

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