You can use Ice Fang and Thunder Fang for a physical Boltbeam combo, so Dragon Claw isn't really that good. Tyrantrum doesn't learn Outrage either.
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Pokémon Tyrantrum
- Thread starter JSND
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Oh yeah, Tyrantrum is weak to Steel too. Damn Rock, why so many weaknesses?
The trick though is to have other Baton Pass targets besides Tyrantrum. Scolipede only needs 1 turn (the turn scizor switches in) to get to +2 Atk and +1 spe. Then, I haven't done the calcs but I would think a healthy scolipede could take a Bullet Punch and Pass Out to someone who can take Scizor on.
Point taken, but like I said, this thing HATES Scizor with a passion, and if a Scizor sets up on you then it's lights out.
Fire Fang is an option if you manage to survive that Bullet Punch.
moreso meant to point out that it could SD on the Pass, and there aren't many good recipients that can deal with scizor but not get countered by something else (most Scizor checks are either walls or special anyway).
EDIT: what I am saying is that you must run something to stop a +2 Scizor if you want to consider Tyrantrum (like volcarona or Magnezone).
It's a valid point, and I'd probably (off the top of my head) drop Crunch if I ran that set. I just prefer as much type/mon coverage as possible and outright attacking.
I just realized something...this is a total TTar clone. DD sets, bulky tanking sets (with rocks), and an eternal phobia of Scizor...but seriously, he is a beast, but outclassed by his predecessor in most ways (Megatar is bulkier and stronger, if not slightly slower).
They even share the first 5 letters of their names.
I think the only advantages TTrum has over TTar are Rock Head Smash and Strong Jaw Fangs. If you aren't using one of them, you should probably be using TTar.
With the examples you gave, he is a TTar clone because he is a rock type with DD, that's not a very compelling case lol. Sure they have a similar name, but Tyrantrum's name is more legitimate and makes more sense seeing as he is based on a Trex which is derived from the latin word for tyranny.
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Yea I pointed out in a previous post how MegaTtar seems to be a better version of this guy as he ties in speed and has superior bulk. That isn't to say Tyrantrum will not have his advantages as he doesn't need a Mega Stone slot and lacks a 4x weakness. On top of that Tyrantrum can run Banded sets which MegaTtar obviously cant. If you compare a Banded Tyrantrum to Ttar, he has certain avantages to distinguish himself like greater speed and the raw power of Banded Head Smash.
Aw, damn, I didn't want this thing to become a "Press Head Smash for luls and winz" Poke, but alas. I liked the coverage given by physical boltbeam + edgequake, but really, who am I kidding?
No recoil, DD boosted Life Orb STAB Head Smash coming from something that has something like 120 Atk?
GG, guys. If this thing gets passed a +2 Atk and +1 Spd and it manages to DD by itself it's game over. +3 Atk +2 Spd... *shudders*
No recoil, DD boosted Life Orb STAB Head Smash coming from something that has something like 120 Atk?
GG, guys. If this thing gets passed a +2 Atk and +1 Spd and it manages to DD by itself it's game over. +3 Atk +2 Spd... *shudders*
The fang set is still viable, me thinks. But yeah, even with just +1 from DD he's a monster, I think the calcs a bit back showed him 2HKOing basically everything except Hippowdon. I'm wondering how this guy would pair with Yzard since Yzard destroys physical walls that "stop" Tyrantrum. Especially if you switch Yzard into an earthquake from Hippowdon, thus taking away it's sandstorm and murdering it with a solar beam or forcing a switch.
So, if tyrantrum is a tyranitar clone, is assault vest a good choice for this beast?
I want to build a fang set and use tyrantrum as type coverage in my team and I think he could make a good use of assault vest, but my low experience in metagame could lead me wrong.
My other choice could be a scarfed set to outspeed things, but I think it could affect the versatility of the fangs. Some advice?
I want to build a fang set and use tyrantrum as type coverage in my team and I think he could make a good use of assault vest, but my low experience in metagame could lead me wrong.
My other choice could be a scarfed set to outspeed things, but I think it could affect the versatility of the fangs. Some advice?
Not trying to sound like a jerk here, but I think you need to look more closely at Tyrantrums vs Tyranitars stats, what Sandstorm does for Tyranitar, and how exactly Assault Vest works.
Short answer: No.
Outside of Head-Smashing-hilarity, I don't see Tyrantrum making OU. He's a very cool 'Mon, with some cool abilities. But he has too many weaknesses to usurp other 'Mons that do his job better. And before you Point to Tyranitar, Tyrantrum doesn't have the stats or weather effects that Tyranitar does.
Add Swords Dance+Baton Pass Blaziken/Scolipede to the mix and good luck with that
Can we not care for tiers for 1 minute and just use a pokemon you want? That's how I do it. I pick pokemon I like and to hell with the tiers. if you truely like a pokemon, you make it work the best way it can.
As for Assault vest, I brought that up a few pages ago and it seems to be a no-go. The set I will use once I can get EQ is:
(Adamant, Shell Bell)
Dragon Dance
Ice Fang
Fire Fang
Earthquake
After 1 DD he outspeeds most threats, and hits like a tank. Shell bell lets him heal a decent amount AND right after it attacks, unlike Leftovers which is at the end of the turn, letting him survive a bit longer. I didn't go with a STAB move because I wanted more SE coverage, plus Stone Edge Misses too much for me.
As for Assault vest, I brought that up a few pages ago and it seems to be a no-go. The set I will use once I can get EQ is:
(Adamant, Shell Bell)
Dragon Dance
Ice Fang
Fire Fang
Earthquake
After 1 DD he outspeeds most threats, and hits like a tank. Shell bell lets him heal a decent amount AND right after it attacks, unlike Leftovers which is at the end of the turn, letting him survive a bit longer. I didn't go with a STAB move because I wanted more SE coverage, plus Stone Edge Misses too much for me.
I'm really liking the sound of Scolipede batoning him x2 Attack and x1 speed, but it sounds like the general consensus around here is that this is a risky strategy due to Scizor's contant presence, especially as a lead.
Scolipede is Bug/Poison and is weak to Flying, Fire, Rock, and Psychic, two of those types Tyrantrum resists.
However, Tyrantrum's Steel/Dragon/Ice/Fighting/Ground Weaknesses don't exactly make it the best defensive switch in. Luckily, MegaCharY resists all but Dragon, which is neural.
Mega Charizard Y suffers against Rock/Electric/Water, although water can slightly be mitigated by Drought. Nonetheless, Charizard automatically requires a spinner, and who is that to be?
Possible Rapid Spin Candidates
Tentacruel - Tentacruel seems like a good idea, but shares a weakness with each of the above members, and being under the sun doesn't do it any favors.
Forretress - A fire x4 weakness under the sun is risky business, although it does resist or is neutrally damaged by all of the above mentioned weaknesses.
Sandslash - Included him because of Sand Rush and how much trouble both Hippowdon and Tyranitar could give to the above trio. However, Ice/Grass/Water...
Hitmontop - Intimidate is a nice plus, but having a psychic and flying weakness alongside Scolipede is an impediment.
Claydol - I included him just because he is UU. Ice, Grass, Water, Ghost, Dark, Bug.... yatta yatta, basically, No.
Excadrill(maybe) - If he returns from Ubers (I personally doubt it) he'd have to deal with Ground, Fighting, and Sun-boosted Fire weakness. Not ideal.
It seems Forretress, Sandslash, and Tentacruel are top contenders, but still weak options. So maybe this team won't care about hazards (if for some reason you aren't running a spikes set on Scolipede, which isn't completely necessary), maybe... Defog?
Possible Defog Candidates
Skarmory - Only weak to Fire and Electric, two types easily covered by Tyrantrum, or better, Char Y and his slightly buffed SpD
Scizor - Arguably better, but running Scizor as a defensive pokemon would be something very new
Mew (lol) - I just saw him as someone who could learn defog and wasn't weak to SR. I didn't even stop to think. Maybe good for utility or BPassing, so not so bad.
Flygon - Another dragon is a bad idea, but it does have levitate and a rock resistance, making it one of the safest things to throw in a nest of hazards.
Latias - Again with the dragons and levitate. Thing is, it works well with Charizard so it could be a decent choice
Shiftry - Saw this guy and went (SAYWHUUUUT). With Chlorophyll, and Nasty Plot he could also function as another special sweeper.
Empoleon - Ground/Electric/Fighting weaknesses can be mitigated out, and lack of worry nor reliance on the sun means he's a solid member.
Gliscor - Another ice weakness, but Ground and Electric immunity can be very helpful
Defog seems like a better option to run, especially since the trio above (Scolipede, Tyrantrum, Char Y) will hardly have much problem plowing through enemy teams. And the defog candidates seem much more type varied as well as utility useful as opposed to the rigid clear-then-hazard spinners.
So Scolipede, Tyrantrum, Char Y, one of the Defog users, (possibly another special sweeper) , (another wall or annoyer) seems like a pretty steady and strong team.
SO TYRANTRUM CAN BE OU OK?! (jk but in all seriousness, I went to ridiculous lengths to justify him on a team).
Scolipede is Bug/Poison and is weak to Flying, Fire, Rock, and Psychic, two of those types Tyrantrum resists.
However, Tyrantrum's Steel/Dragon/Ice/Fighting/Ground Weaknesses don't exactly make it the best defensive switch in. Luckily, MegaCharY resists all but Dragon, which is neural.
Mega Charizard Y suffers against Rock/Electric/Water, although water can slightly be mitigated by Drought. Nonetheless, Charizard automatically requires a spinner, and who is that to be?
Possible Rapid Spin Candidates
Tentacruel - Tentacruel seems like a good idea, but shares a weakness with each of the above members, and being under the sun doesn't do it any favors.
Forretress - A fire x4 weakness under the sun is risky business, although it does resist or is neutrally damaged by all of the above mentioned weaknesses.
Sandslash - Included him because of Sand Rush and how much trouble both Hippowdon and Tyranitar could give to the above trio. However, Ice/Grass/Water...
Hitmontop - Intimidate is a nice plus, but having a psychic and flying weakness alongside Scolipede is an impediment.
Claydol - I included him just because he is UU. Ice, Grass, Water, Ghost, Dark, Bug.... yatta yatta, basically, No.
Excadrill(maybe) - If he returns from Ubers (I personally doubt it) he'd have to deal with Ground, Fighting, and Sun-boosted Fire weakness. Not ideal.
It seems Forretress, Sandslash, and Tentacruel are top contenders, but still weak options. So maybe this team won't care about hazards (if for some reason you aren't running a spikes set on Scolipede, which isn't completely necessary), maybe... Defog?
Possible Defog Candidates
Skarmory - Only weak to Fire and Electric, two types easily covered by Tyrantrum, or better, Char Y and his slightly buffed SpD
Scizor - Arguably better, but running Scizor as a defensive pokemon would be something very new
Mew (lol) - I just saw him as someone who could learn defog and wasn't weak to SR. I didn't even stop to think. Maybe good for utility or BPassing, so not so bad.
Flygon - Another dragon is a bad idea, but it does have levitate and a rock resistance, making it one of the safest things to throw in a nest of hazards.
Latias - Again with the dragons and levitate. Thing is, it works well with Charizard so it could be a decent choice
Shiftry - Saw this guy and went (SAYWHUUUUT). With Chlorophyll, and Nasty Plot he could also function as another special sweeper.
Empoleon - Ground/Electric/Fighting weaknesses can be mitigated out, and lack of worry nor reliance on the sun means he's a solid member.
Gliscor - Another ice weakness, but Ground and Electric immunity can be very helpful
Defog seems like a better option to run, especially since the trio above (Scolipede, Tyrantrum, Char Y) will hardly have much problem plowing through enemy teams. And the defog candidates seem much more type varied as well as utility useful as opposed to the rigid clear-then-hazard spinners.
So Scolipede, Tyrantrum, Char Y, one of the Defog users, (possibly another special sweeper) , (another wall or annoyer) seems like a pretty steady and strong team.
SO TYRANTRUM CAN BE OU OK?! (jk but in all seriousness, I went to ridiculous lengths to justify him on a team).
You really wouldn't need to run Scizor as an outright defense pokemon, just use BP/U-Turn/Roost/Defog with Leftovers and have him be utility. I was just going to go the Haxorus route myself, put him in on something that REALLY doesn't want to deal with it, DD on the switch and use coverage (read: Head Smash) to either break holes in the team or outright sweep.
You forgot to mention Crobat as a Defog Candidate, its very fast, has access to taunt, and a handful of resistances, infiltrator is also a great ability to get past substitute users, not to mention the ability to just stop Substitute Seeding very effectively. I have been running one on Showdown and it works extremely well with the proper teammates.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Jolly Nature
252HP/2Atk/252Spe
Brave Bird
Roost
Taunt
Defog
Well this is a competitive battling forum so discussing tier predictions and viability is completely fine. Sure you can use what you want but what good does that get you if the Pokemon you use is complete dead weight. Im not saying this is the case for Tyrantrum. Although he doesn't look OU, he does look OU viable with the right support to eliminate his counters like Scizor. As for your set, I would really suggest Jolly, with LO if you want to make up for lost damage. This Gen introduced some very fast Pokemon like Greninja and Noivern who will still outspeed you after a DD boost and can easily take you out with an Icebeam or Draco Meteor respectively. Not to mention how risky it is tieing with Starmie and having a 50% chance of being killed by Icebeam.
Yeah, sorry, I was just getting tired of the T-tar vs Tryant talk. Mainly because we still can't be sure where pokemon are going to sit tier wise. At least not till December when the other pokemon start coming over.
I guess Jolly would make me faster, but the recoil with Life Orb is... not ideal for me... Plus my Tyrantrum I think has near excellent Attack and Speed. It would be a lot of work to breed for a Jolly(had a Adamant female so I used a Everstone)
I think even with Jolly you would have issues with those pokemon. I would personally proably switch to my fairy if they had Noivern out, and for Starmie and Greninja, Probably switch to my Helioptile.(sure doesn't resists Ice, but they wouldn't have SE attacks against it and his is a fast little devil)
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your argument. Sandstorm helps Tyrantrum out just as much as it helps Tyrannitar as they are both rock types, the only difference being that Tyrantrum can't auto set the weather on switch in. But that is not a problem as I was planning to run mine with Hippo anyways. Also, your argument that Tyrantrum has too many weaknesses to usurp another pokemon who does his job better is also flawed. Ttar has more weaknesses that Tyrantrum, including a dreaded 4x weakness to fighting. Also, Ttar's job is not the same as Tyrantrum's. Ttar doesn't get Head smash or Rock head. Ttar can pull off a sweep, but honestly, how often do you see that? Tyrantrum cannot even come close to pulling off the bulky sets that Ttar can. Because they're both rock types with Tyran in their names doesn't exactly mean they're comparable or meant for the same job. If you weren't comparing his weaknesses to Ttar, then ignore my last point :P
I will agree with you however that he might not make OU. I love this guy and I have him on my in-game team, but he does have too many flaws to be a consistent sweeper. And yes, Assault vest isn't a good idea on him. He lacks the raw power and speed, coupled with priority problems, to sweep without a choice band, choice scarf, or boosting move (as assault vest will prevent him from boosting)
Jolly 252 Tyrantrum has just enough speed to outspeed base 130 with 252+. So, no, he won't be getting outpaced by Greninja or Noivern after a DD, nor will he be speed tying with Starmie.
--EDIT--
Nvm, realized I misread your post. Your speed tiering was based on Tyrantrum not being Jolly, in which case you're correct.
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Ah so it can pass thoughs... Still, I got a powerful Adamant, so I am going to stick with that one... I'm attached to him
In regard to Tyrantrum's OU viability, I'd just like to point out that Strong Jaw pseudo-boltbeam sets won't make it.
StrongJaw EleFang Tyrantrum is essentially a physical SheerForce LO Nidoking... with lower speed. SheerForce LO Nidoking can't hack it in OU, believe me, I've tried, because he's too damn slow to ever get a shot off.
Maybe Tyrantrum has a bit more physical bulk than Nidoking, but with his defensive typing leaving him open to all sorts of special threats and a 59 bas SpDef, what the hell is the point?
Whether Rock Head sets have viability is another question. But I don't think we have much reason to be excited for StrongJaw EleFang unless you plan on playing UU.
StrongJaw EleFang Tyrantrum is essentially a physical SheerForce LO Nidoking... with lower speed. SheerForce LO Nidoking can't hack it in OU, believe me, I've tried, because he's too damn slow to ever get a shot off.
Maybe Tyrantrum has a bit more physical bulk than Nidoking, but with his defensive typing leaving him open to all sorts of special threats and a 59 bas SpDef, what the hell is the point?
Whether Rock Head sets have viability is another question. But I don't think we have much reason to be excited for StrongJaw EleFang unless you plan on playing UU.
In regard to Tyrantrum Rock Head sets, is it worth passing up Rock Polish/DD for Hone Claws, knowing Tyrantrum's going to be slow, and knowing spamming Rock Head leaves you with a harder hitting Stone Miss?
Or is the speed boost too important?
Or is the speed boost too important?
^ not to mention that the Fangs just don't cut it (as good enough coverage, imo). Would any of you use a Fang on a Poke that got STAB on it? No? Guessed so. Luxray was very poor when he didn't have anything else.
I also think Fire and Ice Fang are the most useful anyway, since you can hit the Steel/Bugs and Ferrothorn (who wall/threat you otherwise), and some other bulky Pokemon that are 4 times weak to Ice like Gliscor, Landorus T, etc(?)...
Personally I disagree with the Nidoking thing though. He was so strong and had really really good coverage and his typing isn't bad. He's not the best Poke but can certainly hold his own in OU. The only ones he can't touch at all are Chansey and Blissey. I've tried everything, it's impossible. Modest max spatk Life Orb strong STAB Earth Power does like 22 %... I've even tried using a physical move for them. Sadly he had no useful Fighting moves and even his boosted Poison Jab did nothing. Oh how I hate these blobs.
Well anyway, it's kinda difficult to use Tyrantrum. If you just go for full power with a band or a scarf it can be easier, with a DD set he does need someone to take care of Scizor first though, which is annoying.
I also think Fire and Ice Fang are the most useful anyway, since you can hit the Steel/Bugs and Ferrothorn (who wall/threat you otherwise), and some other bulky Pokemon that are 4 times weak to Ice like Gliscor, Landorus T, etc(?)...
Personally I disagree with the Nidoking thing though. He was so strong and had really really good coverage and his typing isn't bad. He's not the best Poke but can certainly hold his own in OU. The only ones he can't touch at all are Chansey and Blissey. I've tried everything, it's impossible. Modest max spatk Life Orb strong STAB Earth Power does like 22 %... I've even tried using a physical move for them. Sadly he had no useful Fighting moves and even his boosted Poison Jab did nothing. Oh how I hate these blobs.
Well anyway, it's kinda difficult to use Tyrantrum. If you just go for full power with a band or a scarf it can be easier, with a DD set he does need someone to take care of Scizor first though, which is annoying.
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