He might be able to OHKO Scizor with the berry and SR, but there is no way that he'll be able to OHKO Mega Scizor even with SR support (The Berry makes you lose 30% of your damage). Using an item to kill one counter 50% of the time in the optimal scenario is gimmicky at best. Unless of course you are talking about using Fire Fang, which may be possible (I don't have the calcs for that), but it still feels really gimmicky. I think I'd much prefer to simply switch to Charizard or something else that can handle the bullet punch and possibly set up after forcing Scizor to switch.
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Pokémon Tyrantrum
- Thread starter JSND
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DD Tyranitar sometimes ran Babiri in the past as well.
I didn't claim it's the optimal item in all situations.
But it can be nice surprise especially if you have something else that likes Scizor gone.
Tyrantrum is just threatening enough at +1/+1 to encourage Scizor to Bullet Punch if it comes in.
So maybe it could function as a lure to draw Scizor out like a hooked fish.
Just one possibility.
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I think it should be noted that both of Tyrantrum's abilities seem very useful. This means that it will be harder for the opponent to predict what set you will be using. Not to mention, both abilities can work well with many items such as life orb, choice band, choice scarf, etc. I believe that this will be the key to Tyrantrum's success.
I think the one agreeable statement that can be said for Tyrantrum is it's frustratingly low Special Defense and Speed. One or the other should have been slightly better. I don't think making him a base 80 or even 85 in either of the stats would have been a stretch. Of course this is just to complain for OU viability but it reminds strongly of Luxray, who got base 70 speed... really?
Idea for a mini thread - Stats That Make Your Head Spin or Stats That Make You Wonder What GameFreak Was Thinking...
Idea for a mini thread - Stats That Make Your Head Spin or Stats That Make You Wonder What GameFreak Was Thinking...
well Tyrantrum DOES have dragon dance. Plus there is the factor of supporting him with sticky web.
Haha yeah, I know. I often internally get ticked that a pokemon doesn't have the stats to make it OU. But then again, if every pokemon was OU capable, then no one would be OU really. It'd just be one gigantic viable tier.
Sticky Web, Tailwind, Dragon Dance, Rock Polish, etc. all good options.
Also, it would seem that Yzard pairs well with this guy, and both of them can really use tailwind or sticky web. Yzard can run tailwind, or you can use Galvantula, or both.
But would that really be so bad? I think I rather enjoy the idea of not seeing a politoed, tyranitar, scizor or rotom-w in every single battle.
Yeah I've been trying to work out a team that uses Scolipede, Yzard, and Tyrantrum as an offensive core. I think I have a gigantic post earlier in this thread concerning this.
You didn't read everything I said, and I don't feel like repeating myself for like the fifth time.
Oh, I'm not assuming any Head Smash recoil (with that recoil it's definitely going down in 1-2 hits, lol). I'm just not assuming that you will be able to set up for free. So while you DD you get hit, which won't leave that many HP so Life Orb recoil will kill you in like after 1-3 hits.
Even if your opponent switches immediately. Most of them have a Scizor who is just waiting for you to do nothing offensive and then OHKO you with a Bullet Punch. And if you already got hit then like many priority moves will end it for Tyrantrum. Not to mention scarfers. You never know if they are or not. Suddenly you die. Welp.
[ What I'm trying to say here is that Life Orb isn't that ideal if you're using a DD set ]
Also just think of this:
A TRex has lower attack than a Crab (albeit with a giant claw), a little Fox thing (Flareon), a fighting guy with 4 arms, a bear, some bugs, a not even fully evolved rhyno, and many other things. If you weren't disappointed with his attack when it was found out then I don't know... as for me I definitely expected 140+ for it. Why? Well, Archeops ist just an ancient bird thing, surely a freaking TRex would be stronger than that, and all the others I listed above?!
And it's not just the "logically stronger" thing, like I said his moves probably won't be that strong (besides Head Smash). You want something fast and strong, immediately, because most of the time you will be forced out from priority since he's a Rock type. He will have a difficult time doing much even if he gets the turn to set up. And mostly he'll be good because of Head Smash (which is like I already said 100s of times, really strong, because it has such high BP, not because of his 121 base attack; although at least it's stronger than Aggron and Relicanth...).
While I did hope for ~base 80 speed, 71 is still decent enough.
I'm happy that he actually does just have enough speed. I train many things up to 264 speed, because you need to outspeed Breloom (or else you'll lose like 2 Pokemon because one gets put to sleep and the other gets a really really strong hit or has to deal with the 2nd most annoying thing after sleep: a substitute; though thankfully sleep did get nerfed...). And after a +1 speed you'll outspeed base 130s, which is pretty good.
Definitely agree that his low SpD is disappointing, which will likely hold him down quite a bit... :/
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The pseudo BST of 600 was wasted on Goodra. I know Goodra is a good pokemon, but it doesn't at all radiate a pseudo presence. I feel like even metagross, the pseudo with the most difficulty standing out, does a better job than Goodra.
Tyrantrum would've been a cool pseudo, but then he'd have to be obtainable in a way other than as a fossil.
As with any other pokemon, you're just going to have to work around his faults, I guess.
I'm definitely on the disappointed stats train with you guys. He's basically a more agile groudon appearance wise, so why not 160 95 attack and speed? I believe though that Gamefreak for tradition's sake keep the fossils at low BSTs. What's cradily's highest stat like 107?
The fossils are obtaineble fairly early on in the games so they don't want to allow a mon able to OHKO it's way through the elite four at level 50, which is just rotten for competitive play.
Again though, note the freak in Gamefreak. Lol
The fossils are obtaineble fairly early on in the games so they don't want to allow a mon able to OHKO it's way through the elite four at level 50, which is just rotten for competitive play.
Again though, note the freak in Gamefreak. Lol
Well any good player would not bring in a Pokemon to sweep if his counters are not yet eliminated first. Of course you want to get rid of those pesky scarfers and priority users especially Scizor before you bring this guy in. I mean what good player would try to sweep with a Lucario lacking Crunch if Jellicent was still alive last Gen. And judging from my battles it seems that scarfers have diminished greatly as a necessity for teams with the main one being Genesect. And setting up on him isn't too difficult as some neutral physical hits do leave him with over 40% allowing for 5 hits which is essentially enough to sweep if you have taken down his counters. Not to mention with Talonflames popularity how easy it will be to find a set up fodder. Sandstorm does a good job at helping him take some special hits from more defensively oriented Pokemon as well. Of course its not the easiest set up but its not impossible if you know how to play. There really is no use bringing in logic to argue his attack stat. This is GameFreak we are talking about. Of course his attack is a little underwhelming for his design but maybe GameFreak feared a powerful recoiless Head Smasher needed some limits. There a lot of Pokemon that we wished would have turned out differently like Hydreigon who desperately wishes he had those 2 extra Base States in his HP in his Speed but there is no use complaining about it now. Also it seems like GameFreak is no longer against buffing Pokemon, so dont rule out the possibility of Tyrantrum getting buffs to his Atk, Spe, or Special Defense in the future because that is possible. Not to mention the possibility of a Mega Evolution when they decide to give 6th Gen some in the future. The point is, like I said numerous times, there is potential in Tyrantrum if you know how to use him right. If you don't then just don't use him and stop complaining about what could have been. Its over, this is what we got, deal with it for now and just hope he gets buffed in the future if it makes you feel any better.
Until they start using Will O Wisp... and getting rid of all the counters isn't as easy as you make it out to be, not to mention you might not know what else is scarfed.
Yup, they should've given him a different thing than trying to copy Rampardos again.
I'm not really complaining, I'm just saying that his base attack isn't that good. The new fossils BST is kinda high though. ~25 points higher than all the other fossils except for Archeops who is blessed with an awesome ability...
This whole thing got brought up by me just saying that his attacks (besides Head Smash) won't be that strong because his base attack isn't that high, and that he will have trouble to find opportunities to set up (I'm not saying there aren't any Pokemon who can't do much to him, but there are things like Scizor who OHKO him unless he runs like ~100 defense EVs which he can't really effort unless you run a defensive set...). He has trouble finding the use after his setup, since he'll somewhat easily be forced to switch out again.
That's why I said a choiced set is probably easier to use, so you can hit hard/or is pretty fast right off the bat then switch him out when stuff that stops/kills him appears.
Ok, you are entitled to your opinion on Tyrantrum and I respect that but what you have been filling up the past few posts on this thread does sound a lot like complaining. So how about we just move on the discussion. If you think he is weak then fine think that. Ill think what I think and everyone else think what they think. I was just trying to end post upon post of the same subject. Lets agree to disagree and move on.
I have noticed something very interesting while playing Showdown and watching Wifi Battles for X and Y on Youtube. It seems that GameFreak has slightly changed X and Y Wifi Battles in that Pokemon are now set to level 50 while they were previously set to level 100. Well after doing some quick calculations on how this can affect speed tiers, I found out something interesting concerning Tyrantrum. We all know that at lvl 100 Tyrantrum reaches enough speed to speed tie with base 115's after a DD with an Adamant Nature. However this is changed at level 50. While lvl 50's like Starmie reach a maximum speed of 183, Adamant Tyrantrum reaches a max speed of 123. What this means is that on wifi battles, a +1 Tyrantrum with an Adamant nature will outspeed base 115's by 1 point reaching a speed of 184. This makes running Adamant all the more viable as only a few threats exceed that speed tier notably Greninja, Noivern, Alakazam, and base 130's. While the Jolly Nature has the advantage of out speeding these, I think this opens Adamant Tyrantrum as a viable option as it too is able to pass a crucial speed tier. This makes me wonder what other Pokemon will reach a crucial benchmark with boosting moves? And will Showdown accommodate this generations changes by making its simulator set Pokemon lvls to 50?
They've already voted and decided to leave it at lvl 100 for a handful of reasons.
Yeah I just found that. But it seems their major reasons were tradition and the ability to use lvl 1s for FEAR strategies. Doesnt seem like a lot to me. Someone even posted how the viability of lower BST Pokemon could move up with lvl50 standards. But, its no big deal considering how only a few Pokemon are affected by this. People will just have to know the difference between a lvl 50 Pokemon in comparison to its lvl 100 counterpart, especially when boosting speed/ using a scarf because thats where it seems to matter most.
Level 100 battles are still entirely possible on Wifi.
There weren't any calculations that prove anything I said wrong as far as I know.
For a rock head set:
Tyrantrum
Lum berry
Rock head
Head smash
Dragon Dance
EQ
?
Idk what gives good coverage without strong jaw. I guess dragon claw is a good secondary STAB but only hits garchomp and that new guy Zygard? harder right? Fangs seem too weak without strong jaw and everything else is weaker than head smash.
Also I use lum berry to set up on things who rely on status to bring Tyrantrum down.
Tyrantrum
Lum berry
Rock head
Head smash
Dragon Dance
EQ
?
Idk what gives good coverage without strong jaw. I guess dragon claw is a good secondary STAB but only hits garchomp and that new guy Zygard? harder right? Fangs seem too weak without strong jaw and everything else is weaker than head smash.
Also I use lum berry to set up on things who rely on status to bring Tyrantrum down.
Other reasons include the fact that you don't have to change your EV spread based on whether your IV is even or odd (which IS relevant because of Hidden Power) and that the "4 EVs = 1 stat point" thing that almost everyone in the Pokemon fandom knows is not true and FAR more complicated at Lv. 50.
There were also concerns with an across-the-board power creep, complications with EV spreads, and changes in speed tiers. That last one is actually pretty relevant to Tyrantrum as its base 71 speed gives it some cool advantages over the Pokemon at just one base point lower. At +1, it outspeeds positive base 130s, which base 70s fail to do. Should you find the opportunity to get up to +2 with Dragon Dance, you can also outspeed even Scarf Latios, which base 70s are also unable to do. At level 50, base 70s now outspeed those targets at the appropriate boost number by a single point. While it doesn't necessarily make Tyrantrum any worse, it does take away one of the little advantages that made it stand out.
So guys, I have a few calculation questions for you.
Let's assume that I'm using Yzard. The enemy sends in Assault Vest TTar and attempts a Stone Edge. I send out Tyrantrum and resist the hit.
Now, the calcs:
How much damage would Stone Edge do to Tyrantrum?
Is there any way to OHKO TTar without boosting via Head Smash/Earthquake? If so, what is required?
If I fail to OHKO TTar, how much will he do with Superpower? How about with Low Kick?
What I'm thinking is that if Tyrantrum can OHKO TTar with Earthquake, or at least 2HKO it and live after Superpower/Lowkick, then he could be a great check. If TTar switches out, well he just gave your Tyrantrum a 50% SpD boost (Almost to 90 SpD before nature/EVs/IVs). If he doesn't switch and gets OHKO'd or 2HKO'd then the enemy just lost a pokemon AND gave Tyrantrum the 50% SS boost.
Thanks in advance for the calcs.
Let's assume that I'm using Yzard. The enemy sends in Assault Vest TTar and attempts a Stone Edge. I send out Tyrantrum and resist the hit.
Now, the calcs:
How much damage would Stone Edge do to Tyrantrum?
Is there any way to OHKO TTar without boosting via Head Smash/Earthquake? If so, what is required?
If I fail to OHKO TTar, how much will he do with Superpower? How about with Low Kick?
What I'm thinking is that if Tyrantrum can OHKO TTar with Earthquake, or at least 2HKO it and live after Superpower/Lowkick, then he could be a great check. If TTar switches out, well he just gave your Tyrantrum a 50% SpD boost (Almost to 90 SpD before nature/EVs/IVs). If he doesn't switch and gets OHKO'd or 2HKO'd then the enemy just lost a pokemon AND gave Tyrantrum the 50% SS boost.
Thanks in advance for the calcs.
Why not babiri berry on this thing to not get killed by scizors and lukes bullet punches? It seems logical to me on the rock polish set.
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