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Ubers CCAT 2: Runway is Clear, You are Free to Land [Step 4 - Playtesting]

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by bojangles, Feb 10, 2012.

?

What's the next teammate?

Poll closed May 16, 2012.
  1. Jirachi

    12.5%
  2. Cobalion

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Darkrai

    12.5%
  4. Blaziken

    50.0%
  5. Deoxys-A

    12.5%
  6. Choice Scarf Heatran

    12.5%
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  1. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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    I can understand that Water Arceus has good synergy with Groudon, but I would say that Palkia has better overall syngery. Groudon resists Rock, Poison and is immune to Electric. It is weak to Grass, Water and Ice.

    Grass: Water Arceus (x2 damage), Palkia (x1)
    Water: Water Arceus (x0.5 damage), Palkia (x0.25)
    Ice: Water Arceus (x0.5 damage), Palkia (x1)

    As we can see from above, Palkia is not weak to any of Groudon's weaknessess and resists Water more than Arceus. Also Palkia is only neutral to Thunder, which hits Water Arceus extremely hard from Kyogre.

    Both Palkia and Arceus hate switching into Thunder, but for Palkia it is less of a problem so we won't always have to rely on Groudon taking the hit (and rely on our opponent not predicting the switch).

    Palkia's only weakness is Dragon. Although Special Dragon-type attacks will kill Groudon and Palkia, physical ones would do less to Groudon thanks to its bulk and defensive EVs.

    tl;dr

    Palkia is great in Rain and Sun (as opposed to Water Arceus who is only good in Rain, really), has higher offensive stats, better synergy and is one of only four Kyogre counters listed in The Smog No18.
  2. gookie

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    lol, what here do you not understand - here is the basic game plan for how to beat this team at the moment

    Kyogre active --> Water Spout (no prediction needed)
    Palkia switch takes roughly 33%
    Kyogre can switch out whilst Palkia does whatever
    this can repeat whilst Kyogre takes 0 damage from any form of entry hazard whilst Palkia faces death on the the third switch in if Stealth Rock is up. Palkia has a chance to straight up die on the second switch in if Kyogre is Choice Specs, regardless of hazards.

    also your point about type synergy is really irrelevant since we're talking about vs a Kyogre scenario, and it only uses Ice, Electric, and Water-type moves - Palkia resists one of those, Arceus Water resists two.

    I feel like a broken tape recorder saying this, but please take the time to read both barry and my posts. Kyogre doesn't NEED to predict to beat Palkia + Groudon when there is no Stealth Rock, it does if it wants to beat Arceus Water, and even then it will be hard pressed to do so since Scarf Thunder does only 45.9% - 54.5% to 252 / 240 Calm Arceus Water.

    in this case there is no tl;dr because i sincerely hope you do
  3. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
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    Yeah, Palkia can't really work as a Kyogre counter on this team because it lacks hazards, so you need something that can't be slowly worn down while Kyogre switches out after every time it hits its "counter". Water Arceus seems like a good option with Recover, but I think the following should also be considered:

    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock
    - Recover

    Latias is really only threatened by Choice Specs Ice Beam, Choice Scarf Ice Beam doesn't 2HKO even with Modest and Stealth Rock. Choice Specs full power Water Spout also 2HKOes, but if you come in on the first one, and first Psyshock / Thunder, you won't be so you can Recover the damage off. Latias has several advantages over Water Arceus:
    • Its main STAB isn't weakened in sun.
      Defensive Calm Mind Arceus is cool and all, but with the sun weakening its STAB move, and usually its only attacking move it has some problems offensively. In the sun, almost anything not weak to Water can come in and set up on you. For example, Blaziken, who is really frail for Uber standards and also weak to Surf, isn't even KOed and can set up a Swords Dance on Arceus and punch a hole in this team. Arceus will also leave a lot of common to set up hazards, such as Tentacruel and Forretress, which can really harm this team. I don't think this team is able to use a Rapid Spinner, as the only one that is even viable on sun teams imo—Forretress—doesn't work on this team with hazards not being allowed.
    • Latias leaves room for another Arceus form.
      This is useful. Water Arceus is a good Kyogre counter, but by using it this team doesn't have room for another, better Arceus form such as Normal, Steel, or Ghost anymore.
    • Latias is immune to Spikes, and more importantly Toxic Spikes.
      As I mentioned before, this team will very likely not use a Rapid Spinner. Now look at one of Kyogre's most common teammates, Tentacruel. If Tentacruel manages to set up two layers of Toxic Spikes, Arceus will be very crippled and unable to counter Kyogre anymore, especially considering it doesn't have access to Leftovers recovery. Refresh is an option, I know, but it will have to use Recover first most of the time, and if the opponent then switches to something that forces out Arceus you will still be statused. Also, if you do use Refresh instead, you will be forced out without being able to Recover and you will just be statused the next time you switch in. Spikes from the likes of Ferrothorn and Skarmory will also damage Arceus, but not Latias, which is also an advantage.

    Latias has several options in the third slot. Psyshock is the best in my opinion, as it works regardless of weather, and it's also the best at beating other Calm Mind users, including Calm Mind Kyogre who might be a little troublesome for Latias to Calm Mind war with. Thunder is still a good option though, hitting Kyogre hard, as well as Steel-types bar Ferrothorn at least neutrally. Unfortunately it's rather ineffective in sun, so Grass Knot is also a good option for hitting Kyogre, as well as opposing Groudon.

    Anyways, as I mentioned before you will need to pair this Latias with something that can take Ice Beam easily. Now, what can take an Ice Beam easlily, pairs well with Latias, and is good on sun teams?

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Flamethrower

    Oh right, Heatran! This thing is great, as it provides multiple great resistances, such as Dragon, Ice, and Fire. It also counters several very powerful Pokemon, including Ho-Oh, Ferrothorn, and stall teams in general. Taunt and Toxic is a great combination, as it removes any stall problems this team might have, with Taunt preventing the opposing Pokemon from recovering, while Toxic wears them down fast. Toxic is also great for hitting Kyogre switching in, neutering its Water Spout and making it much easier to deal with in general. Roar is on there because it can phaze out Pokemon that can deal with Heatran, such as a Garchomp switching or something similar. However, with this team lacking entry hazards, Hidden Power Rock is also a good option, as it makes it easier to take down SubRoost Ho-Oh. Flamethrower is in the last slot, as in sun it can do cool stuff like 3HKO Lugia. Lava Plume is still an option though, as burning Garchomp or Rayquaza switching in can be very useful.
  4. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    I think you guys overlooked one advantage that Palkia has. While I do agree that Water Arceus or Latias would fit much better due to their ability to tank hits better with Recover, Palkia is one of the best lures to Chansey and Blissey, which greatly annoy Reshiram on its sweep if they're at full health. I'm not rejecting Latias or Water Arceus, in fact I like those suggestions, but I'd just like to put this set up:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Palkia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 100 Atk / 156 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Spacial Rend
    - Thunder / Fire Blast
  5. gookie

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    The new poll will be up shortly; a lot of options which I deemed unsuitable were removed. This selection should largely focus on being a Kyogre check, and although there are Pokemon in there that are not, I included them largely for completeness' sake.

    I would HIGHLY encourage all you potential voters to remember that voting for two 'mons is largely counter-productive as only one can 'win' the poll, so to speak.

    I also encourage you all to read the posts 67-78 to make an informed decision when voting for your next team mate.

    Also, whilst Latias is pretty cool remember that is straight up rocked by Specs Ogre. It also hits like a leukaemic 9 year old and courtesy of it not being able to afford any speed investment is outsped by a lot of shit. It is nice that it is immune to Spikes and Tspikes, however. Also checks Fighting Arceus, yay.
  6. gookie

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    to all of you voting for palkia i encourage you to hop into a game vs a well played specs ogre with no hazards on your opponents field
  7. gookie

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    It is decided! Arceus Water will be out next team mate. Now is the time to discuss sets, but honestly I think that specially defensive with either Thunder Wave or Grass Knot to cripple Kyogre will be our best bet :).

    Post away
  8. Sound

    Sound

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    It's okay if I jump in at this point, right? Since the numbers on the poll show that the people following this thread aren't the same number posting.

    Isn't the choice obvious in regards to the last move for the specially defensive set? While Thunder Wave will cripple Kyogre, the main issue is the fact that we still can't reliably kill it. If I'm reading the posts correctly, we aren't worried about its revenge killing cababilities. We're worried about 2 things; the rain it brings, and the raw power it can unleash on this team. Paralysis doesn't help at all with the first, while the second is only helped with a shaky chance of parahax.

    Grass Knot, in my opinion, is the superior choice. Kyogre doesn't have access to reliable healing, so that damage is their to stay. An un-invested Grass Knot (it was a pain to calculate, given that the weight mechanic isn't included on the one I use) will do between 44-52% on a Kyogre with 4 HP. Even if the Kyogre has 252 HP, we're still doing 37-44%. Wear it down a little with attacks when it switches in, strike back when the iron is hot. I.E. When it's in KO range. This, in my opinion, would be a good solution to the Kyogre problem.
  9. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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    My attempt to push Palkia failed... However, I am willing to convert to Water-Arceus! (damn you Poppy and your stupid logic...)

    And here's the set I'm proposing (and why):

    After doing some damage calcs I came to the conclusion that Water-Arceus, even with Max HP / SpD with a +Special Defense nature, still couldn't reliably counter Choice Specs Kyogre but was a good check against Scarf variants. This was because, as Poppy pointed out with Palkia, SpecsOgre could just fire off a Water Spout and then switch out to avoid taking damage. Or Kyogre could just attack again knowing that I could do nothing (as a Modest Ogre with 252 in Speed is just faster than a minimum investment Arceus). Therefore I went for a slightly altered spread of: 236 HP / 252 SpD / 16 Spe. This lets me outspeed all Modest non-scarfed Ogres and hit them with Grass Knot to reduce Water Spout's damage. All other attacks (barring Thunder) do relatively little, therefore Arceus can just Recover in Kyogre's face and Grass Knot it for the possible 2HKO when it wants (Grass Knot does 44.6% - 52.8%). Scarf Kyogres outspeeding Arceus are a non-issue because they do very little damage (again, barring Thunder) so taking two attacks isn't a problem for W-Arceus.

    The only worry I had with the set was that it would end up a bit too Kyogre specific (Groudon was above Kyogre in the last 1337 stats...). However, it does have it's merits against other threats. For example, it is a good check to the aformentioned Groudon; it can take it out with Grass Knot or burn it with Will-O-Wisp. This also does well against Extremekiller Arceus thanks to its ability to burn it and its good physical bulk.

    This set does have some problems, though. BU Dialga can easily come in on this set and grab some boosts considering it's good SpD and the fact that it doesn't mind being burned due to Rest. Manaphy in rain annhilates this set because it takes pitiful damage from Grass Knot and Surf and has Hydration (and usually rest) to deal with Burns. Thankfully Groudon can counter the former thanks to its good Defense and can remove the latters rain with Drought (although it is in no way a counter, or a check).

    So here's the set:

    [​IMG]
    Arceus @ Splash Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpD / 16 Spe
    Calm Nature
    -Grass Knot
    -Recover
    -Thunder Wave
    -Surf (more PP>+5 base power)

    Here are the calcs if you care: (With Water Spout, all are assuming full health on Kyogre.) All the calcs are rounded to the nearest 0.1%

    Show Hide


    Choice Specs Modest Kyogre
    Water Spout vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 48.4% - 57%
    Surf vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 30.7% - 36.1%
    Ice Beam vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 13.6% - 16.1%
    Thunder vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 69.6% - 81.8%

    Choice Specs Timid Kyogre
    Water Spout vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus:43.7% - 51.4%
    Surf vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 28% - 33%
    Ice Beam vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 12.5% - 14.8%
    Thunder vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 63.2% - 74.6%

    Choice Scarf Modest Kyogre
    Water Spout vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 32% - 37.8%
    Surf vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 20.1% - 23.7%
    Ice Beam vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 9.1% - 10.7%
    Thunder vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 46.4 - 54.6%

    Choice Scarf Timid Kyogre
    Water Spout vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 29.4% - 34.8%
    Surf vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 18.4% - 21.8%
    Ice Beam vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 8.2% - 9.8%
    Thunder vs 252 / 252+ Water-Arceus: 42.3 - 50%

  10. gookie

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    Tbh, there really is very little flexibility in the set we're going to use, Water Arceus will need to run Recover, Grass Knot, Status, Roar / Judgment or Surf. For this reason we're going to skip over the set voting stage and just head straight into the next team mate stage.

    I know this may seem a little silly, but hear me out, I propose Xatu. Xatu, as one of the two usable Magic Mirror pokemon has better defensive stats, better typing, and access to U-turn. Why Xatu?

    Well, as a team with no hazards and little immediate offensive presence from our weather summoner we NEED a way to repel the countless hazards that are going to litter our side of the field. Xatu can also provide nice dual screens support and switch into Ferrothorn all day.

    What say ye, ubers?
  11. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    [​IMG] In Xatu we trust. [​IMG]

    But yeah, it's a great addition to a no-hazards team, plus it's a great counter to Stall!
  12. NTT

    NTT

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    I was thinking about suggesting a MB user for the next member too =P Given Reshiram's susceptibility to both types of spikes as well as being SR weak, either MB or a spinner would be worth having, with the former being arguably more effective. Xatu, as mentioned above, is the better choice with access to (reliable) instant recovery and U-Turn for maintaining momentum.
  13. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Okay, I will be taking over this CCAT and finish it up. We have not got other nominations besides Xatu yet, therefore I will leave this stage up for another 24 hours. You have until then to suggest more teammates, or support Xatu. Once I see there are enough Xatu supporters, I will close the voting, and we will move on to the next teammate!
  14. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    CLOSED. Xatu is our next teammate!


    <img src="http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/178.gif" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[&#x200B;IMG]" /> (open)
    Xatu (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Roost
    - U-turn / Toxic


    This is a great addition to the team in my opinion. Breaks stall, bounces back hazards, and can use Dual Screens to grant Reshiram more oppurtunities to set up.

    But, I think we're lacking a Dragon resist. It's such a common type in Ubers, so we must have that covered. Therefore, I am going to recommend Jirachi:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serence Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Iron Head
    - Protect / U-turn
    - Body Slam / Thunder Wave

    Synergizes greatly with Thunder Wave Groudon (doesn't need to use it again) and can just flinch to death, counters Mewtwo like a boss, and spreads Wish. Protect is the prior option over U-turn because we want to keep Jirachi alive the longest! The choice between Body Slam is up to us; do we want to risk not landing a paralyze, or do we want to have a shot at paralyzing Ground-types?
  15. NTT

    NTT

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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest exploring Cobalion. Jirachi is obviously an excellent choice in Ubers, but I'd personally like to see a steel type with more physical bulk while still being able to act as an offensive threat. That Jirachi set is 2HKO'd by standard DDQuaza's Outrage, for example, at +1 after any sort of entry hazard damage, including the resisted SR. Cobalion can be configured to take such hits a lot better with similar or less EV investment. It also has that awesome base 108 Spe and decent mixed offensive stats, a great suite of boosting moves and the attacking movepool to make use of them, priority, Volt Switch, status and Taunt. I know we have Groudon for tanking physical hits, but I still think Cobalion could be a worth looking into.
  16. gookie

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    No Cobalion.

    Low special defense, no reliable recovery, low attacking stats.

    No Jirachi.

    Wrong direction, we're meant to be using offense, if you aim to just absorb hits all day with no hazard support this team isn't going to get anywhere.

    I propose a

    Darkrai @ Life Orb
    Trait: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Dark Void
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast

    the Leftovers and Focus Sash darkrai the dominate the metagame may make the opponent slip up, Dialga is easy wrecked by this set, even Ho-Oh takes almost 70% from + 2 Dark Pulse. This team needs more offense, and a way to reliably handle more Dialga (Groudon is pummelled by Draco Meteor) and prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock and Darkrai fits the bill perfectly.
  17. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
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    [​IMG]
    Blaziken @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Flare Blitz
    - Protect

    Blaziken is a big boss in Ubers. I agree with Poppy about going on the offense, and Blaziken is one of the best options for that for any sun team. It also works well with Reshiram, as it can take on Chansey, Blissey, or Tyranitar easily. Blaziken also does a good job at severely weakening Reshiram's counters, as Ho-Oh and Kyogre both switch in on Blaziken quite often but take a ton from a boosted Flare Blitz or Hi Jump Kick, leaving Reshiram able to sweep with those weakened / KOed. (Kyogre takes 83% - 98% from unboosted Hi Jump Kick, Ho-Oh takes 70% - 83% from +2 Hi Jump Kick and 98% - 115% from +2 Flare Blitz.)
  18. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Deoxys-A @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Shadow Ball
    - Superpower
    - Psycho Boost
    I would like to suggest deoxys-a. Mild nature is used so that the combination of psycho boost and extremespeed kos lead kyogres. It can take on any lead and always come out on top. In team preview it is made to look like the life orb attacker to play mind games with the opponent. It takes out all the faster threats that reshiram has to deal with such as palkia and scarf kyogre. With Xatu's support it is likely that this will not die to entry hazards after that sash is used.
  19. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Why is this place so inactive? Why doesnt anyone post? At this rate it will wind up like the last CCAT. Anyways the team i am using is this:
    Show Hide

    Gengar (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Disable

    Deoxys-A @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Shadow Ball
    - Superpower
    - Psycho Boost

    Xatu (M) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Roost
    - U-turn
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen

    Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 SDef / 16 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Grass Knot
    - Roar
    - Recover

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 108 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance

    Reshiram @ Life Orb
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Blue Flare
    - Draco Meteor
    - Outrage
    - Flame Charge
  20. Pancham

    Pancham

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    I'd have to agree with this, however, we need a dragon resist in Ubers. Every team has at least one dragon. If we don't have anything to sponge Ourages, Meteors, etc. we're going to stomped on. I propose:

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Flash Fire
    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Overheat
    -Earth Power
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Hidden Power Rock

    Heatran takes dragon moves like a beast, loves having a sun-boosted Overheat to kill everything with, it even comes extremely close to killing 252/4 Groudon, and with a Choice Scarf, it hits a fantastic 417 Spe, outspeeding even Timid Mewtwo.

    Damage Calcs (open)
    252/252 Timid Heatran Overheat vs. 252/4 Adamant Groudon: 92.33% - 105.66% (373 - 439 HP) (50% to OHKO)
    252/252 Timid Heatran Overheat vs. 252/200 Modest Dialga: 69.8% - 82.43% (282 - 333 HP)
    252/252 Timid Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 4/0 Timid Palkia: 52.8% - 62.11% (170 - 200 HP)
    252/252 Timid Heatran Hidden Power Rock vs. 192/76 Adamant Ho-Oh: 50.87% - 59.85% (204 - 240 HP) (OHKOs if Xatu Magic Bounces SR)
    252/252 Timid Heatran Overheat vs. 252/0 Timid Arceus-Steel: 100% chance to OHKO
  21. Euler

    Euler

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    Well, obviously every Ubers team (except from maybe Hyper Offense or so) needs a Steeltype.
    While Jirachi can't wall shit in the sun (neither Mewtu nor most of the Dragons since you can't switch in all day long without risking a Fireblast (and Jirachi is generally relatively defensiv)) and Cobalion simply doesn't sponge all the special moves without recovery (and Ferrothorn is also to slow / stally), I also think, Heatran is a nice choice for the current team.
    About the set I'm not quite sure since SR would also prove helpful (you can't relay on Xatu bouncing them back), but it isn't yet about this.
  22. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Guys, the next poll will be up shortly, voting for our fifth teammate! You have 48 hours to do so, keep it up guys! We're two steps from finishing!
  23. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
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    For those of you nominating heatran: I have updated the team with heatran over Gengar. And from my experience it doesnt help too much. It revenges darkrai and Mewtwo but thats about it. And the dragon attacks issue is not actually a problem. Water arceus takes draco meteor all day. And most of the time Outrage is seen on the slower dragons. While looking through Xatu's movelist, I found one interesting option - thunder wave. A lot of things like to switch in on Xatu so thunder wave really helps there. However we will have to forgo a screen in order to do so. The other option is to use a set like - wish/protect/thunder wave/u-turn. That solves xatu's problem of being set-up bait. However, I sometimes do wish i had the screens instead. Like I already said - we are not in need of a special wall - Arceus-Water does all the special walling it needs to do. Our problem lies with taking powerful outrages from the likes of Rayquaza and Zekrom - Groudon cannot take them on repeatedly. So i suggest adding something like Cressilia. It can help in walling physical threats as well as giving Reshiram another chance to sweep.
    Also, I would like everyone to know that Lead Deoxys-A has been working great for this team. Due to Xatu's presence and the team's offensive pressure, it is likely that Deoxys-A will not die to hazard damage. Its also great for taking out lead Kyogres.

    So the nominees are - a) Deoxys-A, b) Cressilia.

    The last team member can be anything. Scarfed Darkrai, Zekrom, Palkia, or any other scarfer that fits well.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention that by using protect on Xatu, we can scout Scarfed Kyogre's move and switch to the appropriate check. Groudon Takes Thunder, Arceus-Water takes Water Spout while Arceus-Water or Cresselia can take Ice beam.
    EDIT 2: I also forgot to mention that with Deoxys-A+Xatu, this team is a complete stop to smashpass. Scenario: Smeargle uses Shell Smash as Xatu switches in. Smeargle Baton Passes while Xatu U-turns to Deoxys-A. All the recipients die to Deoxys-A's attacks at -1 or by the combination of (Attack)+Extremespeed.
  24. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Okay guys, poll is up, let's go!
  25. Metal Bagon

    Metal Bagon

    Joined:
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    I think we have a pretty outstanding result in the poll. Should we move onto the stage?
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