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Ubers CCAT 2: Runway is Clear, You are Free to Land [Step 4 - Playtesting]

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by bojangles, Feb 10, 2012.

?

What's the next teammate?

Poll closed May 16, 2012.
  1. Jirachi

    12.5%
  2. Cobalion

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Darkrai

    12.5%
  4. Blaziken

    50.0%
  5. Deoxys-A

    12.5%
  6. Choice Scarf Heatran

    12.5%
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  1. Bossness

    Bossness

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    What I am not liking about the poll is the low number of votes. This CCAT has been inactive for quite a while. In fact, it has been more inactive than the last one. We should wait until at least 10 votes have been made for one pokemon before moving on to the next stage. I mean I already stated why Deoxys-A works well for the team but due to the lack of discussion, it is being ignored.
  2. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    I am sorry for my inactivity with this CCAT, I am flood with work. As for the number of votes, that's something I cannot control. I am doing my best motivating you guys, and it saddens me it's not working so far. However, we only got 1 to go, and the team looks pretty great already! I am going to nominate Choice Scarf Jirachi:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serence Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - U-turn
    - Trick

    Checks Extreme Killer Arceus and Rayquaza with FlinchHax and Ice Punch, respectively. Can also trouble stall with Trick, shutting down Pokemon such as Giratina, Tentacruel, Ferrothorn, and such. U-turn allows us to send in Reshiram safely, which can set up and tear teams apart. Groudon will often switch into this Jirachi, and as we U-turn and send in Reshiram, it will have to switch out or take tons of damage from Blue Flare. This also patches up weaknesses to Deoxys-A, Mewtwo, and Darkrai, while still maintaining some offense.
  3. Bossness

    Bossness

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    85.5% - 101.4% - Ice Punch againts Rayquaza. No hazards = 100% Rayquaza. Problem CCAT? Well, yes, yes, yes! yes! yes!......Revenging Mewtwo and Darkrai is something Blaziken can do by itself. I nominated Deoxys-A because it wins lead matchups 100% of the time and its focus sash stays intact(i.e at1 hp) throughout the match. In team preview, I place my Deoxys-A in the last slot and when I lead, they think that its the Life Orb Attacker and immediately go for the KO instead of setting up hazards. The only problem this team has now is the weakness to Physical Attackers. Cresselia could help solve the Problem. Heatran did a much better job at revenging Extremekiller Arceus. Other possible nominees include - Terrakion. During my testing with terrakion I noticed that the substitue swords dance set beats Giratina but Reshiram can handle Giratina anyway. Blaziken was often useless because there is nothing it can set up on. Am I the only one playtesting with this team? I believe so.

    EDIT: After playtesting a bit more, Blaziken has proven to work time and time again. The last team member should be standard choice scarf terrakion.
  4. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Yeah, Choice Scarf Heatran looks to be a good fit for now. It's a shame that we can't revenge Rayquaza with it, but Water Arceus and Groudon should be bulky enough to take a hit from it and then paralyse it with Thunder Wave (if not, we can always shift some EVs from Attack into Defense). It can revenge Extremekiller relatively well in the sun, but its other major attraction is the fact that we can beat Ho-oh with it, who absolutely murders this team even harder than Kyogre does, and that's saying something.

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Overheat
    - Hidden Power Rock
    - Flamethrower
    - Dragon Pulse
  5. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    I expect more nominations for the last Pokemon of this CCAT! Let's finish this up guys!
  6. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Life Orb Terrakion works well. As we are using no hazards, we need that extra power to KO extremekiller arceus. BTW its frustating to see groudon do 97% to an arceus with +2 swords dance. In those times I really wished that it had taken some residual damage. I also would like to say that Xatu and Arceus Water slows the team down. We were supposed to be doing sun offense right? Groudon rarely puts swords dance to good use. I would rather use Protect to scout Choiced Kyogre's move - this is not going to happen. End of rant.

    Life Orb Terrakion gets my vote.
    Groudon should use protect. I have logs where protects comes in handy multiple times - too bad i cant find them. Protect helps against kyogre and rayquaza and also gives groudon some extra recovery.

    I will create a new alt and see how far I can get with this team.
    (23:25:38) ┬▒Porygon: Your rank in Wifi Ubers is 54/36839 [1480 points / 1941 battles]! My current ranking with my 2nd account - TestAnik. Note that this is on the PO server where I play because I dont have the patience to wait all day to find a battle on the smogon server. Will be using the alt FC BarReshiram.
    Update: May I just voice my opinion? This team has trouble with Focus sash Darkrai as we have no hazards. Reshiram sucks! Blaziken sweeps better. I dont like the lack of activity. I feel like I am talking to myself.
  7. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Okay, because we only have 3 nominations, the last vote will be manual:
    • Choice Scarf Jirachi
    • Choice Scarf Heatran
    • Life Orb Terrakion

    Post your vote, in this order:
    1st place: 3 points
    2nd place: 2 points
    3rd place: 1 point

    My vote is:
    Choice Scarf Jirachi
    Life Orb Terrakion
    Choice Scarf Heatran



    Let's go boys!
  8. dragonboy52

    dragonboy52
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    Life Orb Terrakion
    Choice Scarf Heatran

    Choice Scarf Jirachi
  9. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Life Orb Terrakion
    Choice Scarf Heatran
    Choice Scarf Jirachi
    I dont like choiced pokes and I have found jirachi to be quite useless.
  10. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Choice Scarf Heatran
    Life Orb Terrakion
    Choice Scarf Jirachi


    Shrang convinced me otherwise :v
  11. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Choice Scarf Heatran
    Life Orb Terrakion
    Choice Scarf Jirachi
  12. Darkaxis

    Darkaxis

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    Choice Scarf Heatran
    Life Orb Terrakion
    Choice Scarf Jirachi
  13. Dat Win

    Dat Win

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    Im not fond if Scarf Heatran, so

    Life Orb Terrakion
    Choice Scarf Jirachi
    CHoice Scarf Heatran
  14. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

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    Heatran
    Jirachi
    Terrakion
  15. locoghoul

    locoghoul Banned deucer.

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    LO terrakion






    scarf heatran



    scarf jirachi


    IMO, scarf jirachi and (to a lesser extent) heatran are thrash.

    EDIT: How does it "check" Arceus with flinchhax lol. +2 Silk Scarf Arceus does 47.4% - 56.1% to scarf Jirachi. Solid 2HKO with any hazards (ok not tspikes). LO does 50% min
  16. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

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    LO Terrakion doesnt really check Extremekiller anyway, as a solid majority of them run max speed.
  17. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Solid Majority? Dont think so. Only 15% use jolly nature. The reason why people dont run max speed is because a jolly nature is required - this means that the frailer mons like mewtwo and palkia will have a chance to survive a +2 extremespeed. BTW if Arceus is at 80% health, they always extremespeed on terrakion as they believe its scarfed. Unless Terrakion suffers life orb recoil earlier in the match, the oppoent thinks that its scarf.
    252Atk Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 4HP/0Def Multitype Arceus (Neutral): 87% - 103% (336 - 396 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 23% chance to OHKO.
    This is Jolly Arceus, if it takes even minimal damge,such as from Xatu's U-turn or takes life orb recoil, it KOs with close combat. So when its life orb terrakion vs arceus and arceus is jolly, they always use extremespeed.
    Now calculation with life orb compared to choice scarf:
    252Atk Life Orb Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Multitype Arceus (Neutral): 97% - 115% (434 - 512 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 87% chance to OHKO.
    252Atk Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Multitype Arceus (Neutral): 75% - 89% (336 - 396 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    This is the bulkiest set that extremekiller arceus runs. So when arceus uses a bulky spread, it normally uses earthquake thinking it survives the close combat only to be outspeed and KOed.
    Now you may tell me that maybe jolly Arceus will use earthquake vs terrakion etc etc.
    This is based on my experience of course so if you disagree, please show some logs. My logs are all messed up and I of course have over 500 battles saved so I cant find them. BTW I dont understand why some of my logs arent saved.
  18. locoghoul

    locoghoul Banned deucer.

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    My post didn't imply it did (although it kinda does now that I think about it), it just merely replied the original posting of scarf Jirachi checking Extremekiller and Ray (it does check Ray btw). Like I said, it doesn't really check Extremekiller Arceus.
  19. Bossness

    Bossness

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    85.5% - 101.4% with ice punch - not much of a check since this team has no hazards. Jirachi will have to sacrifice itself to kill Rayquaza most of the time. I found scarf jirachi and heatran to be underwhelming. I mean what do they revenge? Blaziken can revenge mewtwo and darkrai and so I found them to be redundant. After heatran uses overheat, it finds itself facing Kyogre or a dangerous set-up sweeper. Terrakion works well with Blaziken. When Arceus comes in to revenge with extremspeed, you can switch to terrakion and threaten arceus with close combat.
  20. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

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    What does LO Terrakion do for this team other than check (adamant) Ekiller? Heatran can also switch into extremespeed and threaten any arceus wanting to revenge blaziken out. After Terrakion has killed something its also easy pickings for scarf-ogre. Everything you said about Heatran also applies to Terrakion.

    Blaziken and Terrakion also dont work well together, as they are both walled to hell and back by Giratina. We have reshiram, yes, but obvious switch is obvious and Giratina can just hit Reshi for major damage with dragon tail.
  21. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    While you do have a point, CottonPuff, I have been thinking recently of using a SubSD Terrakion, in case it gets chosen. It can lure in and weaken Giratina with +2 Stone Edge, and can make it set up fodder with Substitute. It also really enjoys the paralysis support from Wtaer Arceus and Groudon, so it might be a good pick for the team.
  22. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

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    SubSD Terrakion sounds like more of a team player; however, I still feel we are going to need a solid scarfer :/. We can't rely on blaziken to revenge kill everything, especially the likes of DD Rayquaza, who poses a threat to this team. I think im gonna suggest palkia next, as it revenges Ray and is a backup switchin for Kyogre (something our team should have, in case we mispredict with waterceus) SubSD Terrakion sounds cool though, I really need to try that out sometime :3
  23. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Arceus does not revenge Blaziken. The only Arceus that revenges Reshiram and Blaziken is ExtremeKiller. When that happens you can switch to Terrakion and then gain momentum again and start another sweep from there. Life Orb Terrakion uses rock polish and swords dance. Let me show you two things:
    252Atk Life Orb Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 4HP/0Def Kyogre (Neutral): 80% - 95% (276 - 327 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.---> We can hit it on the switch. It doesnt normally switch in but comes in to revenge. If rock polish has been used, you outspeed and hit it.
    252Atk Life Orb +2 Terrakion (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 4HP/0Def Levitate Giratina (Neutral): 95% - 112% (423 - 498 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 74% chance to OHKO. This is Giratina-O. I have done this many times. Giratina-O switches in like a boss only to get smashed by this. The way to achive this is to threaten out Extremekiller/Dialga/Ferrothorn.

    Now Giratina. It poses absolutely no threat to this team. Xatu walls it well with reflect. In a real match all it does is dragon tail which has 16 pp and it can be stalled out with roost and protect from Blaziken. If Dragon Tail brings out Reshiram, Giratina and the team is in trouble.

    While it looks good on paper, I really dislike the idea of subSD Terrakion. There are some cases where you would want to have Rock Polish such as against -2 scarf dialga. Also the subSD beats Giratina which I have already mentioned in one of my previous post but the problem is that Terrakion will end up at 5%(3 subs+2 rounds of LO recoil)- of course you have the option of using leftovers but then its not LIFE ORB, and wont be able to check anything anymore. DD ray is not a threat when you look at the team. It cant set on anything, Xatu sets up reflect as it uses DD, Water Arceus and Groudon uses T-wave, Reshiram outright kills if its bold enough to set up. Blaziken does over 80% with +2 Hi Jump Kick and of course unless they see life orb recoil on terrakion, they think its scarf and switch out. BTW if its Kyogre vs Water Arceus at 70%, i always use Grass Knot. Why? Even though I know it has thunder, that hit with Grass Knot will mean that Kyogre cant switch in on anything anymore. I have already played with this team and havent had a problem with these two.
  24. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Which Scarf Dialga exactly? Does are literally non-existant. Plus, we have paralysis support, and that's a key point for our team. It helps both Blaziken and Reshiram set up, so I don't see why won't it help Terrakion. And I know from experience (sam ur great) I've had with it, it's really really dangerous when it has grabbed its Swords Dance boost.
  25. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

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    I was talking about Extremekiller. You forget how hard it is for Terrakion to set-up. First of all, Arceus can usually survive the CC, and KO back with earthquake/ brick break. Terrakion can not "set-up for free" against Arceus.

    I still stand by my last argument. Exactly how do Blaziken and Terrakion synergize well? The only thing they do for each other is that Terrakion defeats arceus for blaziken, which I already addressed. And Terrakion in no way possible can defeat Giratina, unless running subSD. Giratina survives the +2 stone edge, and then burns/phazes it. Its also bad to assume that Terrakion has a SD under its belt, because chances are it won't. It is way too frail by uber standards to set-up as easily as you assume.
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