1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

VGC 2014 Rules

Discussion in 'VGC' started by RBG, Nov 22, 2013.

  1. Nido-Rus

    Nido-Rus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    24
    I'd actually been preparing for this, but this really puts a damper on my training.
    I really wanted to test out Togekiss. It was already a moster supporter, with absolutely amazing defences, and a 60% flinch chance coming off 120 Sp. Att. With its new new fairy typing, I thought it would now be at the top of VGC.
    But now, I can't use it. Nor can I use Breloom, my favorite sleep spammer.
    (;_;)
    With Fairy types, sludge wave might actually see some use.
  2. Pieman2906

    Pieman2906

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    5 Hours? try more like barely 1. I've churned out 12 perfects now, including some that needed egg moves, and most of those took between 1 and 2 hours to breed from scratch.

    There were two of 'em where the RNG screwed with me and it took more like 4 hours to get the perfect, but usually it takes a lot less.

    These safari dittos+ destiny knot are a real godsend.
  3. Shinkou

    Shinkou

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    64
    Well, there goes my favorite Excadrill & Friends team. Please tell me that they forgot to include that special Pokemon are banned, otherwise Mewtwo will be an asshole to deal with.
    scottklbrw likes this.
  4. Xloudman

    Xloudman

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    I like how the move tutor moves from gen 5 are going the way of the dinosaur. Breeding was such a chore in the older games that I wouldn't go back to do it just to get a specific move even if I had to. While I'm not personally against pokegen, I never used it so I was kind of at a disadvantage with facing legendaries like Cresselia because it is such a good support mon. On a related note, does anyone know when the locations of the regionals will be annoucned?
  5. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    Mountain Pokedex #1-147. Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde and Mewtwo are #148-151.
  6. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    They already have been.
  7. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke ᴵ ᶰᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵐᵒᶰˢᵗᵉʳ ᵗᵒ ᶜᶫᵒᵇᵇᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᴷᶦʳᵇʸ
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,443
    This seems alright, I suppose. Truth be told, I was hoping that they'd just restrict it to Pokemon bred or caught in the kalos Pokedex, but I'm not majorly disappointed at this. I'm just a bit afraid of the diversity staggering into something akin to that of VGC 2011. Let's hope the 300 extra pokemon keep it from getting that stale.

    The one big disappointment here is, of course, the lack of any cartridge environment to practice this. GBU doubles is alright, but then there's a bunch of extra stuff like Volcarona, Hitmontop, Togekiss, and Breloom to deal with. I'm hopeful they'll make this rule set the next seasonal ladder.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  8. KingWein

    KingWein

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    20
    I like the new rules. Though, I am a little confused as to no two Pokemon cannot have the same Pokedex #, are they referring to the National Dex or the Kalos Region Dex?

    I think we will see a lot of Gale Wing Talonflame whereas in Gen 5, almost everyone had that Cresselia, T-Tar, or at least one genie Pokemon (Therian or not) on their team. Hopefully, the team I have can kick some ass and take some names in the VGC.
  9. Xloudman

    Xloudman

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    For the January ones? I didn't see anything on the VGC website
  10. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
  11. Xloudman

    Xloudman

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    13
  12. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,544
    Added a list of currently legal mons to the OP for everyone's convenience.
  13. Pathos Prime

    Pathos Prime

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    This eliminates roughly 250 Pokemon from the tournament (including favorites like Blaziken, Excadrill, Breloom, Jellicent, and the Kami Trio), plus bans any Gen-V-or-earlier Move Tutor or TM move that can't be passed through breeding.

    So. What does this do for the metagame? Protean Greninja with Mat Block will be everywhere, with the only Pokemon in this metagame that learn Mach Punch are the useless Ledian and Conkeldurr IF Timburr still learns Mach Punch as an egg move. Stealth Rock will be nearly nonexistent since it's no longer available as a TM move, leaving most of its users Rock- and Ground-Types (which die quickly from STAB Greninja/Azumarill/Gyarados/Blastoise) or Ferrothorn which is risky to use due to its speed and 4x Fire weakness (Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, Moltres, Chandelure, etc.)

    Klefki and male Meowstic become the only Pranksters, with Klefki having the clear advantage in typing, stats, and movepool. Drizzle Politoed is legal, making Rain teams an option (even with nerfed weather only lasting 5 turns). In rain, Mega Ampharos becomes a nasty threat and, since Drizzle+Swift Swim isn't banned in VGC, we get to face the wrath of Choice Specs Golduck (170 base Speed, 142 base Sp.Atk), Choice Band Floatzel (a ridiculous 230 base Speed, 157 base Attack, Crunch, STAB Return and Waterfall, and Power-Up Punch), and Kingdra (170 base Speed and good all-around stats, plus Flash Cannon to deal with annoying Fairies). In lieu of Swift Swim, 135 BP Surf plus Poliwrath, Vaporeon, or Quagsire with Water Absorb hits both enemies for STAB damage while healing you. Storm Drain, sadly, isn't available.

    Toxicroak with Dry Skin heals up in rain as well, and even outside of rain, Fighting/Poison is a really good typing for this metagame, super-effectiving both annoying Steel- and Fairy-types, plus the large plethora of Grass-types. Skuntank may see some use as well, with its middling bulk mitigated somewhat by the fact that its only weakness (Ground) is weak in this metagame, with the prevalence of Greninja and Grass-types, and the only reliable Ground-type move the ally-hitting Earthquake. Skuntank can partner with a Steel-type (like, say, Aegislash) and soak the field in Poison with STAB Sludge Wave, or just STAB Poison Jab and Crunch with its respectable Attack stat. It can also learn Flamethrower and Explosion, so there's those too.

    Sand teams can be led by Sand Stream Mega Tyranitar, but without Excadrill to show up and kill everyone, the only available Sand Rusher is the too-slow-to-really-make-use-of-it Sandslash. Hail teams might see some use with Snow Warning Aurorus and Mega Abomasnow, but Talonflame and Mega Charizard will outspeed both and pick them apart.

    Trick Room teams gain Super Gourgeist, plus Mr. Mime and its brand-new Fairy typing. A Soundproofed Mr. Mime on a Trick Room team gains a nice partner in Scrappy Exploud and its STAB Boomburst.

    Mega Mawile and its horrifying 210 base Attack will be a staple on Trick Room teams, and with its decent defenses and very nice typing, might even see some use outside of Trick Room.

    Personally, I really like Exploud, but from the amount I've used him so far, Boomburst, even with Choice Specs, doesn't do as much damage as I'd hoped it would, thanks to Exploud's fairly mediocre Sp. Attack stat.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2013
    FruitsPunchSamurai likes this.
  14. Nido-Rus

    Nido-Rus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    24
    You forgot to account for Garchomp and its mega for sandstorm teams. It may be slightly unusual to run both t-tar and chomp, but normal chomp gets sand veil, which isn't banned in VGC, and mega gets sand-force, which'll definitely help to sweep. Mega-chomp might even be viable in TR teams, with a negative nature and 0 IVs.
    And yes, this IS in the wrong sub-forum. I think you should request a mod to create a VGC 2014 thread.
  15. FFchocobo

    FFchocobo

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    227
    So we cannot use kalos natives w/egg moves / tutor moves available only in previous gen?
  16. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    Trick Room shuts down Greninja. Since Mat Block is 0 priority, any Pokemon that can move before Greninja doesn't care..
    If it can be learned as an egg move in Gen VI, it is legal so long as that Pokemon was hatched in Gen VI. This includes some egg move combinations that are presently unavailable (Gengar + Disable for example).
  17. FFchocobo

    FFchocobo

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    227
    so another thing, since HA roselia is unavailable until pokebank, we can use HA roselia by using an HA roselia from pokebank as a parent?
  18. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Wi-Fi Commissioner

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,780
    You find Roselia in hordes and horde Pokemon can have their HA.
  19. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    The way I interpret it, any Pokemon that is Kalos-dex legal and has a released hidden ability is fair game, but again only if said Pokemon was caught in XY. Which means even Imposter Ditto is legal so long as it was caught in the Friend Safari.
  20. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke ᴵ ᶰᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵐᵒᶰˢᵗᵉʳ ᵗᵒ ᶜᶫᵒᵇᵇᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᴷᶦʳᵇʸ
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,443
    Pathos Prime, no offense, but I don't think your assessment of the new threats in this rule set is very accurate. I've not been able to play much GBU doubles thanks to school, but there are a lot of big echoing threats that I feel are what to really look out for. Garchomp, Talonflame, Rotom-W, Tyranitar, Scizor, MMawhile, and MKangaskhan are really common and really big threats that individually seem to just shut a lot of Pokemon down while doing there thing and plowing through whatever they come across.

    With respect to what I've seen in GBU doubles, I've not seen too much rain, which I imagine would be a lot harder to get going with Rotom-W, Tyranitar, and Talonflame being so common and big players like Cresselia and Thundurus-T gone. Probably the weirdest thing about this whole metagame so far is how physically oriented everything feels compared to how the last two VGC formats felt very specially focused. It's quite the change of pace and it feels like Intimidate users like Salamence and Gyarados are better than ever. Now let's just hope we get a better cartridge environment to play it in...
  21. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    I guess we outta put together a threat list and what Pokemon can fit what roles (Trick Room setters, Trick Room sweepers, Support, Rain, Sun, Sand, Snow, Goodstuff, etc).
  22. Goomy_Hat

    Goomy_Hat

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    My only nitpick is that if the format is meant to emphasize strategy, why isn't triple or rotation battle the standard?
  23. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    I wouldn't be opposed to a Triple battle VGC one year. The format is vastly underrepresented. Rotation battles though...not a big fan myself.
  24. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    152
    4vs4 Double Battles are the fastest competitive format. When you're running a large tournament, people being able to finish their games quickly is a virtue.
    Kriptini likes this.
  25. Eeyore

    Eeyore

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    116
    The rules also state any official event pokemon, which blaziken is

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 3)