Considering some of the other stuff that's getting posted, Shiburodon shouldn't be up here. A weakness-less mixed attacker is hardly unusable. Not only does it have decent defenses and excellent offenses, but it's movepool is exemplary. For Special Sweeping it has Acid Bomb... for phazing it gets Dragon Tail--it's speed doesn't really matter with the negative priority. Oh, and it's one of the few viable users of double-scouting in the form of U-Turn + Volt Change.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)
- Thread starter Seven Deadly Sins
- Start date
None of these are very good arguments for Shiburodon. I can't see Acid Bomb being effective, it has no business phazing (not bulky enough), and what exactly is the benefit of "double-scouting"? I'm not saying that Shiburodon isn't usable, I frankly haven't used it so I have no idea (though I can't ever remember being threatened by an opposing one), but if you want it moved, provide some substance in your post.
Maybe instead of just throwing out random theorymon about what each "non-OU" pokemon has, people could try and demonstrate how they can out-perform the other pokemon that are contesting for that position on your team. Think logs, calculations, and comparisons.
SDS and the other mods are just going to ignore 90% of the posts in this thread, because the lack of thought and background work put into them just shows that the poster really doesn't care that much about their arguments, and they won't be taken seriously. If you're going to write a thread about a pokemon, I would hope you would have done a ton of work and testing with the pokemon anyways, so you may as well offer that support here.
And what's with all of these "crusaders", fighting for the OU-rights of each pokemon? The mods don't want every pokemon on the list to be crap, I'm sure they're happy to remove good pokemon from the list. Think of it as making points for an effective pokemon rather than fighting against some group of douches who hate your favourite pokemon and I'm sure you'll have more success.
Indeed it deserves an analysis. It has really good bulk, no weakness thanks to its ability which is similar to Spiritomb (despite the fact less immunities) and a movepool that's large enough to run a wide amount of effective sets. In case you don't think so, I'll write the analysis to prove we're right.
You're so right. A poke with so much speed that it at +1 still doesn't outspeed a lot of threats, only moderate defence and low special defense and a weakness to the most commen priority in the game should definitely get a OU analysis right now.
:0 ...sarcasm of above post aside, Feraligatr is also basically a better DDer than Crawdaunt in every way, even without STAB on Crunch. Encourage is a much better ability than Adaptability.
I'd like to second Shiribudon's removal; a weaknessless Poke with moderate bulk and a great movepool definitely deserves a spot on there. Coil, Dragon Tail, and its excellent offensive movepool are definitely noteworthy, and I think all its traits make it OU worthy for a set, if not the tier outright.
I also feel that non-DW Jalorda, while certainly not as good as DW Jalorda, Erufuun, or even Sceptile, has a couple of good niche things it can do... It is probably the best user of the Coil/Glare/Dragon Tail trio, due to its good defenses and its high speed letting it beat other phazers. I think that set, if nothing else (and I'm sure there're others that could be used too), would be a good one to use in OU.
Arbok also isn't half bad, with Glare's buff and Coil making it a decent tank and making STAB Gunk Shot pretty awesome (barring its already-godawful typing). Dunno if its fully OU worthy, but I think it's OU-usable, based on what I've heard about its usage.
Givin' the snakes some luff.
Agreeing with the sentiment on Arbok. Snake Coil and Sucker Punch suddenly make him worth considering on an OU team, now that he can effectively counter Roopushin as well as boost alongside him. He can also absorb T-spikes when facing stall and use Forry as setup fodder. I tried him out on the PO ladder and he wasn't half bad, though Skarmory and Hippowdon walled him pretty hard (as they do with many physical sweepers).
Crawdaunt is slow and frail, and incredibly outclassed by others at what it can do. It's "Adaptability/Dragon Dance" niche isn't enough to merit "OU" status.
I understand what they're saying now. Just because something CAN compete in OU doesn't mean that it SHOULD compete in OU. Right now we need to focus on writing the analyses for those Pokemon who can always find a place on an OU team, and don't need extra special care to bring in. Let the people do their jobs and get the OU established, bring things up to date, and then announce the UU/NU tiers. Then we can all have our say on the lesser Pokemon. Whether we like them or not, they are indeed lesser, and fight in their own tier. We'll have our chance to write about them when the time comes. Until then, we need to make the Moderator's jobs easier, and let them finish what can 100% legitimately compete in the OU environment.
The more time we spend arguing for Pokemon who truly do NOT belong in the OU environment, the more time it'll take the Moderators to tell us "No," and the longer we have to wait to write the UU/NU analyses.
I can't believe anyone is arguing the use of Arbok in OU. Sure, he COULD have use there, but he very, VERY clearly does NOT belong in OU.
It's statements like this that are pissing people off, and analyses like these that are only prolonging the time before developing a true UU environment.
Seriously? Arbok? Come on now.
Mebukijika's a very viable sun sweeper in OU. It deserves a write up, I wouldn't mind doing it.
I'll post multiple logs to prove my point of viability in OU.
I'll post multiple logs to prove my point of viability in OU.
Not to pry too much on the topic, but Weezing also has Stockpile, to change some of those 2HKOs into 3HKOs and 3HKOs into 4HKOs. And Clear Smog only removes the opponent's boosts. I'm not saying it's completely viable for OU, but it does have better options than what Delta 2777 mentioned.
Shibirudon is the one I'm thinking about right now. LOL NO WEAK is actually kinda cool, but the thing that really gets me is that it's packing a pretty neat offensive special movepool. Thunderbolt / Flamethrower / Grass Knot gets pretty awesome coverage, and Levitate is cool beans in general with Spikes and stuff around. Maybe something like Thunderbolt / Flamethrower / Grass Knot / Volt Change OR U-turn might be usable with a 252 HP / 252 SAtk spread. A Coil set with 252 HP / 252 SDef Sassy might be worth using too, though there are some nasty special attackers out there that can blow through 85/80 defenses, even with investment.
No to Arbok and Jaroda, though. Jaroda is completely outclassed by Erufuun and Sceptile as a SubSeeder, and Coil + Glare + Dragon Tail isn't actually that interesting. Arbok has terrible stats, an EQ weakness, and an ability that doesn't cut it when you simply can't switch into anything effectively.
No to Arbok and Jaroda, though. Jaroda is completely outclassed by Erufuun and Sceptile as a SubSeeder, and Coil + Glare + Dragon Tail isn't actually that interesting. Arbok has terrible stats, an EQ weakness, and an ability that doesn't cut it when you simply can't switch into anything effectively.
I am truly sorry that the thought of Arbok in OU angers you.
Actually, I really had to think about why I took Arbok off of my team and the one thing that really did it for me was Ground types. Even with Ice Fang, they're beating him just about every time they show up. Especially Hippowdon, Dory, Gliscor, and Rando. He's dead weight vs. any Sand team at all.
But I did enjoy setting up on Roopushin and Sucker Punching Shandera. ;)
Shibirudon is kind of sweet, 85/80/80 looks pretty bulky especially with no weaknesses when you consider Zapdos has around the same bulk. The thing is, Zapdos can only be considered bulky when Ev'd correctly, and its high SAtk means it can still score kills sometimes without investment. 100 base speed without investment is also pretty decent for a wall.
THEN you look at Shibirudon. Great mixed stats, but not great enough to do anything w/o sacrificing bulk. His speed is also abysmal. Lastly, don't forget Zapdos has instant recovery.
My point is, he can be a worse Zapdos, or a slower, slightly chunkier Electivire, useable in OU no doubt but not deserving a place there in the tier.
THEN you look at Shibirudon. Great mixed stats, but not great enough to do anything w/o sacrificing bulk. His speed is also abysmal. Lastly, don't forget Zapdos has instant recovery.
My point is, he can be a worse Zapdos, or a slower, slightly chunkier Electivire, useable in OU no doubt but not deserving a place there in the tier.
Why is Bibarel on this list? Inconsistent Bibarel is easily one of the current forces in the metagame.
Do we really need to specifically have Ditto on this list? It's not like the Ditto analyses is really all that different for each tier. Things will probably change when Eccentric becomes available, but for the moment, a Ditto analysis to me seems like just getting something easy out of the way.
Entei is something I hate to see on this list. However, having more Attack, Speed, and bulk than Arcanine, I could see a case made for an Entei OU analysis.
Exeggutor is one of many great chlorophyll sweepers, I don't see why this would be here.
Glalie with Inconsistent has been released, iirc. Simply because of the ubiquity of Inconsistent I could see it getting an OU analysis. It's also respectably bulky, having 80/80/80 defenses.
Huntail gets Shell Break and more offenses than Cloyster.
Magneton is a particular case of "it outclasses its evo with Evolution stone". At the cost of 5 SpA, it's faster and generally more effective offensively. An offensive Evolution Stone set is something I could easily see becoming more common than Magnezone.
Parasect is a beast wall in the rain. With him finally getting Leech Seed, I don't see why this is on the list.
I am unaware if Mischievous Heart Sableye has been released. If it has, however, it seems to me deserving of an analysis. Otherwise, it's still trash.
mebukijika is an amazing sun sweeper. With a good movepool, Nature Power now becoming Earthquake, and Wood Horn, it can generally rip through any walls that give something like Venusaur or Exeggutor problems.
Do we really need to specifically have Ditto on this list? It's not like the Ditto analyses is really all that different for each tier. Things will probably change when Eccentric becomes available, but for the moment, a Ditto analysis to me seems like just getting something easy out of the way.
Entei is something I hate to see on this list. However, having more Attack, Speed, and bulk than Arcanine, I could see a case made for an Entei OU analysis.
Exeggutor is one of many great chlorophyll sweepers, I don't see why this would be here.
Glalie with Inconsistent has been released, iirc. Simply because of the ubiquity of Inconsistent I could see it getting an OU analysis. It's also respectably bulky, having 80/80/80 defenses.
Huntail gets Shell Break and more offenses than Cloyster.
Magneton is a particular case of "it outclasses its evo with Evolution stone". At the cost of 5 SpA, it's faster and generally more effective offensively. An offensive Evolution Stone set is something I could easily see becoming more common than Magnezone.
Parasect is a beast wall in the rain. With him finally getting Leech Seed, I don't see why this is on the list.
I am unaware if Mischievous Heart Sableye has been released. If it has, however, it seems to me deserving of an analysis. Otherwise, it's still trash.
mebukijika is an amazing sun sweeper. With a good movepool, Nature Power now becoming Earthquake, and Wood Horn, it can generally rip through any walls that give something like Venusaur or Exeggutor problems.
This is probably because it relies on luck, which isn't something anyone is going to rely on.
Altaria deserves a mention! Let's see, we have Roost, Cotton Guard, Dragon Dance, Heal Bell, Outrage, Draco Meteor, Power Swamp! We have a monster on our hands and it deserves some dedication!
However, if odds are against me again, I would like to reserve it for UU discussion...which hasn't started yet so there's no point in reserving it here.
Draco Meteor and Power Swap - a set like DracM/Flamethrower/Power Swap/Cotton Guard could get insanely hard to take down without Toxicstall or Ice Beam available.
Nidoqueen seems a kind of questionable one to me. It's bulky enough it performed pretty well in 4th Gen's OU, and while it might not be nidoking, its encourage ability will still ensure that its Earth Power, Sludge Wave and Ice Beam will hit shit pretty hard. I could see a bulky support set along the lines of:
@Leftovers
Encourage
-Toxic Spikes (no SR sadly)
-Roar / Fire Blast
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
could perform pretty well in OU . . .
Then there are a few that obviously have fantastic dream world abilities on which we will just have to wait (lol,ditto)
@Leftovers
Encourage
-Toxic Spikes (no SR sadly)
-Roar / Fire Blast
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
could perform pretty well in OU . . .
Then there are a few that obviously have fantastic dream world abilities on which we will just have to wait (lol,ditto)
It's not, though, and it never has been at any point. I still see everyone and their mother using Magnezone. That Speed is just so insignificant when you consider Magnezone actually gets a say in what item it has, which can alone change what your Magnezone is capable of altogether.
Balloon? Cool, Doryuuzu trapper. Leftovers? Sub, Charge Beam, just existing for longer. Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, LO, Light Clay etc. If you want to know how many Zone has, you can read it in his 4th gen analyses on the front page. I mean, what are you getting with 70 base Speed that 60 won't do it for? Agiligross pre-Agility?
Not sure if this was mentioned already, but the Endeavor-Aron set actually has some merit; if you're not just doing fully evolved Pokemon, Lv. 1 Aron should definitely have one, though it should be pretty low priority-wise.
Typhlosion ScarfRuption definitely should have a mention, so that should be taken off the list.
Typhlosion ScarfRuption definitely should have a mention, so that should be taken off the list.
I think Bibarel really deserves an analysis.
Cue: Inconsistent.
Seriously, that DW ability(it has been released too) makes it from "lol" to seriously powerful.
Cue: Inconsistent.
Seriously, that DW ability(it has been released too) makes it from "lol" to seriously powerful.
Also, if he has a boosting move and Manaphy isn't running Ice Beam, it's just not beating him. I tried to beat him with my Tail Glow Manaphy running Energy Ball for coverage, but even +3 Energy Ball does less than half and he keeps healing from the Rain. :/
I already wrote one. Feel free to leave comments on it though. You can find the link in my sig.