What makes a Pokémon fun to use in-game?

[Codraroll]

With the recent event in Pokémon Go, featuring Nidoran-F absolutely everywhere, I just had a thought... we haven't really seen anything like the Nidos ever since Gen I, have we? I figure this thread is the right place for my musings.

For those who don't remember, the Nidoran are available very early in RBY. In RB, they are found on Route 22, just west of Cerulean City, while in Yellow they are found on Route 2. Both versions of Nidoran are like cute little bunnies at first, but they quickly evolve into something more menacing, and may again be evolved with a Moon Stone, which can be found as early as Mt. Moon. This lets you have them reach their final evolution as early as level 16 if you so wish.

Nidoking and Nidoqueen are undeniably quite badass designs. The little bunnies grow into rhino porcupines, and then into full-blown kaiju. Their level-up movepools are as barren as ...Gen I level-up movepools, but they have amazingly wide TM compatibility. You can throw a Moon Stone and any TMs you come across in the Nidos' general direction, and they'll turn into powerhouses that can easily form the backbone of your team. For early-game Pokémon, the Nidos are pretty powerful if you give them the investment, and it's accentuated by their kick-ass designs.

However, their stats aren't quite end-game-worthy. Nidoking's Attack ties with Seaking's, and the duo have a Special stat on par with Oddish, and are outsped by 'mons such as Meowth or Poliwag. They are definitely all-rounders as far as stats go, but don't really excel in any of them. By the end of your journey, the Nido monarchs will definitely lose their luster a little. They are king and queen of the early mid-game, but in the long run there are definitely some stronger options to explore. In that sense, they are almost like souped-up versions of Butterfree and Beedrill, who get strong quickly but also out-shined quickly. They won't hit obsolescence quite as hard as the early-game bugs, but they definitely soar above and then plunge below the power curve in a similar fashion.

So yeah, their shtick seems to be early availability -> can be fully evolved early (with investment) -> massively powerful (and cool!), but will be obsolete later on. Have we had any 'mons like that ever since? RSE Lotad/Seedot are also early stone evolutions, but their evolution stones are available way, way after their reach their second-stage evolution levels. Jigglypuff/Clefairy are other examples from RBY, of course, but only two-stage, and I don't think they behave like that in any later game. In Platinum, you can have a Probopass on your hands at level 15, but it won't exactly flatten the mid-game like the Nidos do (same with SMUSUM Blissey). And most other three-stage evolutions tend to require high levels to evolve. Are there any other examples I've overlooked?

EDIT: Upon some more thinking, I remembered that the "investment" part of Nidoran's properties isn't as viable any more, as the investment it needed in RBY came in the form of single-use items of limited availability. With TMs now being infinite use, there's no sacrifice in using them anymore, and even Moon Stones can be farmed. So I guess Nidoran's behaviour is not as easy to repeat nowadays, since the games rarely have any limited-use, limited-availability elements any more.

 

[Worldie]

Well the issue is, that sort of things happened mostly due to how unbalanced / unexplored the movesets and TM availability of gen 1-2 (and 3 to some extend) were.

A pokemon that was moderately fast and had a wide enough moveset could easily in those games just 1v6 the entire game due to being able to hit basically everything supereffectively.

The addition of more and more dualtypes to the arsenals of gym leaders, on top of more balanced movesets and bigger TM distribution, on top of the gen 4 phisical/special split made those cases significantly more difficult to happen.

I can't really think of a Pokemon that really can reach the gen 1 nido scenario in gen 6 or 7. Even beasts like USUM Hawlucka can't 1v6 *everything* on their own.

 

[stage7_4]

The Whismur line comes sort of close, at least in concept. Normal type, learns a ton of TMs, comparable stats to the Nidoran lines.

This is more pronounced in ORAS, as Whismur comes before the first gym, starts with the really powerful (at the time) Uproar move, and can be taught the supermove Boomburst in the late-game stages to anchor its viability just a little bit longer. They even gave it the elemental fangs too, not that you'd use them over surf, overheat, ice beam and other TMs.

But it's not a perfect transition. For one all the ORAS innovations come from Gen 6, so original Gen 3 Whismur was fine but underwhelming. That and it doesn't evolve as fast as the Nidorans, into Loudred at 20 and Exploud at a really high 40 (for a 3-stage normal type).

That and even though it's fun to spam Uproar on early game trainers, the first 3 gyms are there to punish you for relying on it as Roxane and Wattson will resist normal (mostly) and Brawly is super-effective against you.

So Whismur has a much slower start than the Nidoran lines, but perhaps stays relevant a bit longer in the end-game with Boomburst. Not that much better, but decent.

 

[Merritt]

Gen 3 Whismur is outstandingly terrible and definitely doesn't work for this category. Keep in mind that Gen 3 Uproar is 50 BP, and that Loudred still isn't particularly strong. Due to the higher power of Headbutt vs Uproar, Zigzagoon is actually a significantly better early game mon for Normal type damage - even on evolution Linoone outpaces Loudred until the Strength HM because Headbutt still has more BP than Uproar or the level 25 Stomp. Even after getting Strength, Loudred is exactly 1 base attack stronger than Linoone, not exactly particularly amazing.

Loudred (and Exploud) actually start coming into their own at the start of lategame, when Loudred finally evolves at level 40, unless time is spent much earlier grinding for Game Corner TMs, since it's actually rather potent with its useful TM movepool - mostly Ice Beam and Flamethrower. The issue for Loudred is that by the time the free Ice Beam comes around Loudred has fallen off pretty well in terms of stats. It's slow, it's not particularly bulky, it's not very strong. It's only when Loudred becomes Exploud and improves its stats that it can actually make use of its good TM movepool. I mean Whismur in general is just kind of terrible in RSE, what with its awful matchup against all three of the early gyms.

Gen 6 Whismur, from what I remember, isn't actually all that much better, since it's got to wait until it's well into the Loudred stage for the 90 BP Uproar, but that at least makes Loudred itself alright. Access to Surf is a nice addition to Exploud though Loudred doesn't get it. From what I remember of the I think one time I used Whismur (I've played a lot more RSE than ORAS), it was still at its best in the early lategame Exploud stage - although it definitely got a big jump at Boomburst right before the league.

If I had to pick a RSE mon to fit this category I'd probably go with Gyarados, but maybe Torkoal or Seviper.

Gyarados fits the "early availability -> can be fully evolved early (with investment) -> massively powerful (and cool!), but will be obsolete later on" rather well in RSE, although obviously Magikarp is somewhat worse than Nidoran. Gyarados itself is incredibly strong with Strength after gym 3, but does kind of fall off lategame due to its lack of physical STAB moves. Earthquake can help keep it somewhat more relevant than RBY attacker nido, but obviously Horn Drill lets Nidoking participate lategame too.

Torkoal actually has very solid stats for when it joins, although it (and Seviper) are really stretching the definition of early availability. A very quick Body Slam and Overheat not too long after turn it into a fairly potent attacker, only aided by Flamethrower not too far off. It does fall off very hard lategame, with terrible matchups against almost everything after the 6th gyms, which is worse than the nidos.

Seviper is pretty much the same boat as Torkoal, only it's stronger and not as slow in exchange for worse bulk. I think that aside from the significantly worse availability of Seviper, it's actually a decent comparison to the nidos, as it has a surprisingly wide TM movepool, is competent both physically and specially, and has largely ok matchups for most of the game, with some of the later stuff being pretty poor overall.

 

[Miss Cottonee]

Well the issue is, that sort of things happened mostly due to how unbalanced / unexplored the movesets and TM availability of gen 1-2 (and 3 to some extend) were.

I have to agree with you on this! In gen 1 you get a lot of ridiculous TMs and if you happen to have a Pokémon that can learn a lot of them (such as the Nidos, Gyarados, Clefable) they outclass almost everything. I mean, before the 4th Gym, you have access to Rock Slide, Ice Beam, Horn Drill, Dig (100BP), Double-Edge, Body Slam, Psychic, Thunderbolt... and the list goes on. However, I didn't find the TM distribution of Gen 3 that overwhelming. The theoretical Game Corner prices are the most powerful, but you'll have too less money to buy it early on and grinding at the slot machines is almost impossible. Aside from that, the first powerful TM you'll get is Overheat, and I think all higher BP moves are available from the point you get Surf and onwards. As I played this gen for eternity, I find the options a bit limited, actually.

In the vein of what Merritt says about Gyarados in RSE, I've had the same experience with Breloom and Hariyama. Despite their low base power attacks, they were so strong early on. You could evolve Makuhita and Shroomish as soon as you got to Slateport, and they both were pretty okay to start with. Makuhita's Vital Throw at 13 is quite a thing. But the point is, both Pokémon were powerful enough to use low base power moves like Mach Punch and Fake Out/Arm Thrust effectively. Like Gyarados, they can both learn Strength too. As they progress, they suffer from the same fate, because there aren't many TMs to spice them up mid game. Luckily Breloom learns Sky Uppercut, but Hariyama has to wait for reliable moves until Brick Break/Earthquake are available. Anyway, the "being obsolete later on" label doesn't entirely fit for them as Fighting is one fo the best types to beat the Elite Four with.

 

[adman2]

Something weak with a silly appearance makes for fun solo runs. That's why I picked Jigglypuff for Fire Red! Jigglypuff also has a good selection of TMs to prevent its moveset from becoming stale.

Sometimes a Pokemon with a smaller movepool can be interesting too. Pachirisu required me to use Substitute when fighting Grass types. When you have to use nothing but half damage moves with abysmal attacking stats, Leech Seed can be one of the deadliest moves in the game. So Substitute was my way of dealing with that. (Another Smogonite suggested that to me in my solo run thread. I didn't come up with that tactic on my own!)

Challenges like solo Caterpie may be funny to read about or watch, though it sounds too repetitive for me to want to play that way. I like to avoid excessive level grinding on wild Pokemon if possible.

If I ever do a Johto solo run, I'll be sure to use a Grass type due to how much the region hates them.

 

[bdt2002]

With most people, they either use top-tier mons or just use their favorites that they like for whatever reason. For me, though, the deciding factor is a combination of those, but the impact a Pokémon has had on me is a HUGE factor. I'm a big advocate for DS (and Wii) nostalgia from back in the glory days, and Pokémon that have changed my life through those games are among my top favorites. Don't even get me started on Pokémon SoulSilver...

 

[Caramel Prisoner]

With most people, they either use top-tier mons or just use their favorites that they like for whatever reason. For me, though, the deciding factor is a combination of those, but the impact a Pokémon has had on me is a HUGE factor. I'm a big advocate for DS (and Wii) nostalgia from back in the glory days, and Pokémon that have changed my life through those games are among my top favorites. Don't even get me started on Pokémon SoulSilver...

Care to elaborate? I'm interested.

 

[bdt2002]

Care to elaborate? I'm interested.

You mean the thing about SoulSilver? Or something else entirely? Either way, the idea is that some Pokémon from the older games have left an impact on me, the most major one being Totodile in SoulSilver all the way back in 2010-2011. Since then, I've used a Totodile in every game I possibly can. I would have even used one in Sun via Island Scan had I not chosen Popplio.

 

[Mimas]

I usually create teams where each Pokémon will be complementing the other, regardless of which Pokémon it is, I just want it to do my needs, use an HM for example, or even gain prominence in some gym or team four.

 

[Pikachu50]

They look great, they are shiny, they do what you need done, or they are just plain awesome. That is what I can think of for why off the top of my head.
They look awful, they have very dull coloring, they don't do anything you need them to, or they just plain suck. That is basically the opposite of my why use it list, but hey it is what I can think of for why not off the top of my head. It just isn't very fun to use if the Pokemon if it doesn't help you any.

 

[Pikachu50]

It is able to heal other Pokemon (like Chansey and Gardevoir with Heal Pulse (or for Chansey with soft-boiled before gen 7))
You literally only have to use healing items on 1 Pokemon outside of battle and can use soft-boiled to heal the rest. It was a lot of fun having Chansey/Blissey heal the rest of my team in my opinion. (it also saved me a good bit of money as I only had to use healing items on Chansey/Blissey)

 

[Rarycaris]

I'm one of the rare people who likes using legendaries. It feels good going around and collecting the strongest creatures in the land to use in my quest, and I'm mostly an ubers player so it helps prepare me for competitive play in a way that standard mons don't.

My favourite playthrough I've ever done is when I got all five Dream Radar ubers at level 5 and used them along with Serperior for my Black 2 Challenge Mode playthrough. (I chose Serperior because it didn't share a typing with the gen 4 mascots and because it's the only one that can learn all the HMs they don't, but eventually replaced it with Zekrom.) Sure, they had really bad movepools, but that was part of the fun, along with doing something that completely upended the game's expectations. I RNG'd them for optimal natures and perfect IVs, for competitive use, and by the time I'd climbed to the top of Black Tower and White Treehollow they were at their full power.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'm one of the rare people who likes using legendaries. It feels good going around and collecting the strongest creatures in the land to use in my quest, and I'm mostly an ubers player so it helps prepare me for competitive play in a way that standard mons don't.

If I could fit the Legendary onto my team I'm not against using it. For example in my Diamond version I used Manaphy on my team as I needed a Water-type (and later I did use Dialga going through the Elite Four because, eh, why not). I also used the "welfare" Latias in my Alpha Sapphire cause I had room for a Dragon/Psychic-type and if I was going to use it as a taxi might as well also have it on my team.

My favourite playthrough I've ever done is when I got all five Dream Radar ubers at level 5 and used them along with Serperior for my Black 2 Challenge Mode playthrough. (I chose Serperior because it didn't share a typing with the gen 4 mascots and because it's the only one that can learn all the HMs they don't, but eventually replaced it with Zekrom.) Sure, they had really bad movepools, but that was part of the fun, along with doing something that completely upended the game's expectations. I RNG'd them for optimal natures and perfect IVs, for competitive use, and by the time I'd climbed to the top of Black Tower and White Treehollow they were at their full power.

Well Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina don't have that bad of a level movepool. At level 6 they have two decent STAB moves, and though the next isn't till 24 (except Giratina who gets its next at 19 and its Shadow Sneak they could come in handy), in-between they get nice coverage options with Ancient Power, Slash, and then Power Gem (for Dialga & Palkia). And then at 24 Palkia gets Aqua Tail which sets it for until you get Surf. All of them then get Dragon Claw at 28. So overall your good with the Spacetime Dragons.

But then we come to Lugia and Ho-Oh, and, yeesh. When they start they only have Weather Ball. Now they do get Gust at Level 6 for a meh STAB... and then they have to wait till Level 15. Yeesh. That said, at 15 Ho-Oh gets BRAVE BIRD and Lugia gets DRAGON RUSH. So, yeah, I think starting then they start having a better time. Lugia especially as at 23 it gets Extrasensory (and Ho-Oh but Lugia gets STAB from it). Sadly Ho-Oh needs to wait till 37 to get any Fire-type attack.

Also all this disregards TMs and HMs which they can learn a lot of.

However I can understand the feeling as in my Ultra Moon version I trained up both a Bagon and Beldum. Humble beginnings, but well worth it in the end as Salamence was an offense beast and nothing was able to scratch my Metagross (who saved me when battling Ultra Necrozma). If I were more into special playthroughs I'd actually think doing one where I start with a team of the pseudo Legendaries (also wouldn't mind an Eeveelution run, I think it's possible to get all of them at Level 5).

 

[Pikachu50]

Well I do like using those Pokemon with exclusive moves that aren't event exclusives (but rather the Pokemon can only learn it in a certain generation)
A portion of the time they are actually decent or helpful

 

[Ikey]

Weird forgettable pokemon are always fun to use

 

[Frostflower]

When I play the game for the first time, I use cool looking Pokemon while trying to maintain decent type balance. On replays, I use Pokemon I've never used before, or haven't used in a long while.

 

[PrisonInmate]

I tend to enjoy using pokemon that I think look cool in-game.

 

[innisfree]

Personally, when playing in game I tend to prioritize mons that can be caught early, have designs I like, decent enough stats + moves to make them usable, and have at least a few decent matchups vs either gym leaders or certain trainer classes which appear frequently in the game. I don't like using mons that have no role which they perform better than the rest of my party, because I find myself only sending them out to level them up and not because they're the most useful mon for that scenario. For example, I recently played through Fire Red with a Nidoqueen on my team, and I felt like it was completely outclassed by the rest of my party after about 4 badges or so. It was pretty boring to use because if I were to always choose the most efficient mon to use while battling I would legitimately never send out Nidoqueen, but I had to so it didn't become underleveled. I also don't like mons that evolve super late because by the time you have the final form you're basically done with the game.

 

[PsychicAcademic]

This is menial, but there's something tickling about running a male Primarina (I didn't want to waste time in SR for female starter). Probably because I keep thinking it's a girl. With it being solid pick in vanilla SuMn....

Yeah, that one blue Mars symbol really made it different from other starters in my other Mon story runs, especially since in USun I did get female Prima.

 

[Coronis]

I generally try to go into each new game as blind as possible, and pick designs I like. Unfortunately I do seem to become a bit set and repetitive with my mon choices but eh, they’re my faves for a reason. Have also done some alternate runs including a full pseudo run. (i don’t remember it that well but I think someone had Dragon Rage early and that was a big fall back in early game. Mid game dragged a bit but late game was so fun and dominant)

 

[Kurona]

I generally try to go into each new game as blind as possible, and pick designs I like. Unfortunately I do seem to become a bit set and repetitive with my mon choices but eh, they’re my faves for a reason. Have also done some alternate runs including a full pseudo run. (i don’t remember it that well but I think someone had Dragon Rage early and that was a big fall back in early game. Mid game dragged a bit but late game was so fun and dominant)

Which game was that? Because I definitely remember having that same experience with Dratini in Heartgold

 

[Jerry the great]

I personally mostly only use Pokemon in game that are some of my favorites (yes even in challenge based runs, I'll just use my favorites I can choose from). Of course though, since loads of my favorites tend to not be the best gameplay wise, it limits my options, which allows for extra challenge. Yeah I just play with my favorites, rather than stuff that's actually good. I play that way because
#1: I want to be able to see my favorites at all times because favoritism
#2: It generally allows for more challenge

Trust me, I even go as far as fighting Black and White's first gym without the elemental monkey, simply because I don't care for them. Granted, it does make things suck, but I'll just grind a Lillipup to level 16, have potions ready, and use my starter for their Lillipup.

Of course though, I have one other core aspect that makes Pokemon fun for me to use: How hard they are to obtain. Trust me, I will do anything I can to get Pokemon hard to obtain to use for an entire playthrough, good or not. Such may include the game corner porygon from gen 1, Bagon in the gen 7 games, Deino in the gen 8 games, ect. Generally speaking, what makes Pokemon fun for me to use is if they are very hard to obtain, or I personally just really liked them. Pokemon that are a mix of both (such as Tauros in gen 1) I will waste hours or even days on just trying to obtain. Because I find them that fun to have on my team.

 

[Coronis]

Which game was that? Because I definitely remember having that same experience with Dratini in Heartgold

It may have been HG, Platinum or something Gen 7, still a bit fuzzy on the details but those were the games I replayed the most.

 

[WaffleTitan]

It may have been HG, Platinum or something Gen 7, still a bit fuzzy on the details but those were the games I replayed the most.

I believe platinum had access to gible with dragon rage pretty early, so probably was that. lil shark boi was the best in that game!