XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)

HypnoEmpire

Yokatta...
Yeah, I worked with what Machamp would work best at, and that is wiping out pokemon that don't resist Dynamic Punch. That's probably the only niche Machamp has in OU and is pretty much entirely out-classed by the likes of Conkeldurr. CyclicCompound, I enjoy writing, so don't worry about me writing a lot. I think I gave Machamp a little too much credit now that I look it over. And thanks Colonel M, I appreciate it.
 
The QC team has decided to give Shuckle an analysis due to its capabilities to reliably set up Sticky Web and Stealth Rock and prevent being set up on via Encore. Please know how this thing works if you plan on reserving it.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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I would like to see the skeleton before it is posted. Mainly to make sure we are on the same boat with Shuckle.
 

Dread Arceus

total cockhead
The QC team has decided to give Shuckle an analysis due to its capabilities to reliably set up Sticky Web and Stealth Rock and prevent being set up on via Encore. Please know how this thing works if you plan on reserving it.
Out of curiosity, how useful is Encore in reality? We're talking about a Poke that's so slow that -1 uninvested Conkeldurr actually outspeeds it.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Out of curiosity, how useful is Encore in reality? We're talking about a Poke that's so slow that -1 uninvested Conkeldurr actually outspeeds it.
it prevents set up. If the opponent thinks that Shuckle is a free Swords DAnce, they'll get encored and thus are easy to deal with. It can also encore Rapid Spin users making them very easy to spinblock.
 
Encoring Defog is actually cool too. Something like this could potentially happen:

Shuckle uses Sticky Web
Latias switches in
--
Latias uses Defog
Shuckle uses Encore


At this point, two things can happen:

Latias switches out
Shuckle uses Sticky Web


You still get Sticky Web down. Or:

Latias uses Defog
Shuckle uses Sticky Web
--
Switch into Bisharp
Latias uses Defog


A +2 Bisharp is yours if your opponent despises Sticky Web that much.

In summary, you get the advantage either way. That's the power of muthafukin shuckle nikka
 

HypnoEmpire

Yokatta...
I strongly think Hitmontop deserves an analysis this generation. One of the greatest toys Hitmontop got was an Assault Vest. Hitmontop with an Assault Vest makes him incredibly bulky, especially paired with intimidate as an ability. With this, Hitmontop just might be the bulkiest Rapid Spinner in the game. Hitmontop also has the ability to revenge kill opposing pokemon with low HP due to Sucker Punch, Bullet Punch, and Mach Punch for priority. Because of Assault Vest, Hitmontop can afford to invest more in Atk than he could last generation. If a team relies on hazard support (thus not wanting a defogger), then I would recommend Hitmontop!
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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I strongly think Hitmontop deserves an analysis this generation. One of the greatest toys Hitmontop got was an Assault Vest. Hitmontop with an Assault Vest makes him incredibly bulky, especially paired with intimidate as an ability. With this, Hitmontop just might be the bulkiest Rapid Spinner in the game. Hitmontop also has the ability to revenge kill opposing pokemon with low HP due to Sucker Punch, Bullet Punch, and Mach Punch for priority. Because of Assault Vest, Hitmontop can afford to invest more in Atk than he could last generation. If a team relies on hazard support (thus not wanting a defogger), then I would recommend Hitmontop!
Hitmontop has been blacklisted by the QC team as it is average inside and outside of theory.
 
The problem with Hitmontop is that, especially with Assault Vest, it can't touch Aegislash at all to spin. If it didn't have Assault Vest it could at least use Foresight, but with Aegislash everywhere, it's not an effective spinner. Even if you ran Foresight, you'd have a mediocre spinner at best. In terms of general bulk, you're better off with other Pokemon that have recovery and a better defensive typing. You're better off using Excadrill in most cases as a Rapid Spinner.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
top has EQ but you end up with a set like spin/eq/cc/? which is set up bait somthing fierce, toxic being the last option but at that you have a weak defensive poke with no healing and only a band aid in anti set up. I'd rather use donhpan I think.
 

HypnoEmpire

Yokatta...
Well, you gave very good points, and you're all very right about all of them. It seemed good to me (in theory, at least) but it is true that Aegislash is everywhere and it sucks for AV Hitmontop to not have lefties, recovery or foresight. I guess it can work out, but it needs a lot of support to perform well on a team.
 
Is Toxicroak completely unviable this gen? I know it took substantial nerfs with no more perma rain and all the flying types running around, but surely it has some merit to it. Is there any specific Pokemon in OU that 100% outclasses everything Toxicroak can do?

Off the top of my head Toxicroak is an excellent stop to certain water types and it's one of the few fighting types that are not bothered by fairies.
 
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Jukain

!_!
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Is Toxicroak completely unviable this gen? I know it took substantial nerfs with no more perma rain and all the flying types running around, but surely it has some merit to it. Is there any specific Pokemon in OU that 100% outclasses everything Toxicroak can do?

Off the top of my head Toxicroak is an excellent stop to certain water types and it's one of the few fighting types that are not bothered by fairies.
QC has been discussing this. Hang tight for a bit, there is considerable support (it's a yes from me at least, and a few others so far).
 


I noticed that Seismitoad hasn't been mentioned yet in this topic. While it's quite unpopular, I believe it has a solid niche in today's metagame as a Swift Swimmer on rain teams.

The most important thing Seismitoad brings to rain is a Thunder Wave immunity and a very solid offensive Thundurus switchin. Thundurus is a scary Pokémon for rain since Swift Swimmers rely on their speed to sweep and Prankster Thunder Wave shuts this down: it's the great equalizer, enabling offensive teams to stand their ground against a team archetype that would otherwise outpace and overpower them. Toad is respectably bulky on both sides of the spectrum and is only weak to the (very rare) Grass Knot; in the rain, Toad outspeeds and ohkos Thundurus with Hydro Pump, even w/o rocks.

Toad isn't just an electric resist on a stick, of course. His mixed bulk is respectable, similar to Kingdra's, and like Kingdra Seismitoad has no exploitable weaknesses to priority moves. In the rain, Seismitoad has enough speed to outpace every metagame-relevant threat, including Deoxys-S (though sadly he does need to run a Timid nature to reach this landmark), which is obviously a big deal for a sweeper that relies on high speed instead of priority. Toad's base 85 special attack seems low relative to other Swift Swimmers, but it's really not a huge deal- Life Orb, rain boosted STAB Hydro Pumps are incredibly powerful, even coming from a low base. What's more, Seismitoad has a respectable special movepool that includes great moves like Sludge Wave and Focus Blast. Hydro Pump + Sludge Wave 2hkos Azumarill, while Focus Blast cleanly 2hkos Ferrothorn- these two Pokémon are obviously incredibly important targets for rain teams, as their bulk and resistances can trouble other Swift Swimmers. A carefully played Toad can weaken or even outright KO these threats, making it easier for other Swift Swimmers to clean up.

Seismitoad isn't an amazing Pokémon and he should never be the first choice Swift Swimmer, but I feel he's a useful part of the rain offence toolkit. Thundurus-I is everywhere, and Seismitoad is the only Swift Swimmer immune to his Prankster T-Waves- the most common method of speed control in OU. While he has no standout stats, everything he has is good enough to allow him to function in OU, and as beefy electric types such as Raikou become increasingly common, Toad's niche is only going to become more useful.

The only set I'd be advocating is a Life Orb/Swift Swim sweeper. I don't feel as though Seismitoad has any real niche in OU this gen outside of this role, but I feel this niche is worth writing about.
 
QC has been discussing this. Hang tight for a bit, there is considerable support (it's a yes from me at least, and a few others so far).
I've been using pretty much nothing but offensive rain teams the past month, and I definitely would like to see Toxicroak get an analysis. I still think it has a viable role on rain teams, serving as a check to things like Keldeo, Sylveon, Azumarill, Chansey, Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur who can check or counter one or more of the viable Swift Swimmers. Furthermore, its immunity to Toxic, access to Drain Punch and passive recovery with Dry Skin and possible Black Sludge/lefties, as well as its key resistances can make it hard to wear down for these pokemon and it has no trouble switching into/checking them multiple times in a match.

While the Drizzle nerf was a severe blow to its viability, you can say the same for many things that flourished under rain but many people are seeing that rain teams are very powerful (albeit mostly due to Swift Swim Spam.) Talonflame is also a bummer, but on a rain team you often have a good answer to Talonflame in the form of Kabutops; KO Toxicroak, and Kabutops gets a free switch in and turn to boost which is usually game over if enough turns of rain remain. Toxicroak also gets Knock Off, and in a meta where the entire tier doesn't revolve around weather wars, some old counters like Jellicent have fallen from grace. It's Poison STAB is also more valuable with the introduction of Fairies, and unlike the special-based Sludge Bomb not many Fairies can take a Gunk Shot (except Mawile obviously.)

While not as pants-shittingly terrifying or borderline unstoppable as stuff like Kingdra or Kabutops in rain (not the fairest comparison: these are pokemon that would have likely been banned to ubers last gen were it not for the Drizzle+Swift Swim ban,) I still think it's viable in OU on an offensive rain team and warrants an analysis.

Just some thoughts for anyone on the QC team who are on the fence.
 
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No, just join #xyqc, it's a public channel, anyone is welcome to watch and we don't constantly discuss, but we could be discussing while you're there. Otherwise, people will make posts on the forums afterwards summarizing what came up and what changes should happen.

Edit @ below: It's an IRC channel. There's a sticky thread about it in this subforum.
 
No, just join #xyqc, it's a public channel, anyone is welcome to watch and we don't constantly discuss, but we could be discussing while you're there. Otherwise, people will make posts on the forums afterwards summarizing what came up and what changes should happen.
I don't even know what #xyqc is lol. Halp
 

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