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XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
Hi, I think that Cobalion is deserving of an analysis. Although often overlooked, Cobalion has good typing, which is now better with the introduction of Fairy-types, nice bulk, with the mediocore Special Defense now being able to get boosted thanks to Assault Vest, and Base 108 Speed is really nice. In addition to its good typing and stats, Cobalion has a variety of sets that it can nicely use. First, Cobalion can run a Swords Dance set with Swords Dance, Iron Head, Close Combat, and Stone Edge, or X-Scissor. After 1 boost, Cobalions Base 90 Attack gets boosted to high levels and with its bulk to back it up, makes Cobalion a fearsome physcial sweeper. I have some calcs done to help prove my point:
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 422-500 (112.8 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 856-1012 (211.8 - 250.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 175-207 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 362-428 (102.8 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
These are done with Jolly Cobalion
Next, Cobalion can run a strong Calm Mind set to both boost Special Attack and Special Defense at the same time. This set could consist of Calm Mind, Focus Blast, HP Ice, and Flash Cannon. Once again, here are some calcs.
+1 252 SpA Cobalion Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Garchomp: 320-380 (89.3 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Cobalion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Snorlax: 420-494 (80.1 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Cobalion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Snorlax: 560-660 (106.8 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Cobalion Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Whimsicott: 384-452 (118.8 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
There are done with Timid Cobalion
Also, Cobalion can still run a standard defensive and support set with Stealth Rocks, Thunder Wave, and two attacking moves. Thanks to Assault Vest, Cobalion can now run a scouting set with Volt Switch and 3 other attacking moves that would be a mixed set. Of course I see flaws in Cobalion but don't all Pokemon have their own as well? Also, I forgot to mention that having a 4x resistance to Stealth Rocks is a great addition. Yes I would definitely understand if it is rejected but I see Cobalion worth being on an OU team.
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 422-500 (112.8 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 856-1012 (211.8 - 250.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 175-207 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 362-428 (102.8 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
These are done with Jolly Cobalion
Next, Cobalion can run a strong Calm Mind set to both boost Special Attack and Special Defense at the same time. This set could consist of Calm Mind, Focus Blast, HP Ice, and Flash Cannon. Once again, here are some calcs.
+1 252 SpA Cobalion Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Garchomp: 320-380 (89.3 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Cobalion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Snorlax: 420-494 (80.1 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Cobalion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Snorlax: 560-660 (106.8 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Cobalion Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Whimsicott: 384-452 (118.8 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
There are done with Timid Cobalion
Also, Cobalion can still run a standard defensive and support set with Stealth Rocks, Thunder Wave, and two attacking moves. Thanks to Assault Vest, Cobalion can now run a scouting set with Volt Switch and 3 other attacking moves that would be a mixed set. Of course I see flaws in Cobalion but don't all Pokemon have their own as well? Also, I forgot to mention that having a 4x resistance to Stealth Rocks is a great addition. Yes I would definitely understand if it is rejected but I see Cobalion worth being on an OU team.
HypnoEmpire
Yokatta...
It does that much to Skarmory? Wow. It's nice how Cobalion can be a special or physical attacker. Slowbro walls Cobalion's physical set pretty well though, considering Slowbro's completely invested in HP and Def. Even X-Scissor fails to do much: +2 252 Atk Cobalion X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Blissey can't wall Cobalion's special set after +1 at all: +1 252 SpA Cobalion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 354-416 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. However, Slowking completely walls Cobalion's special set (from above): +1 252 SpA Cobalion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 70-83 (17.7 - 21%) -- possible 5HKO. I definitely agree that Cobalion would be great in OU, but it needs some partners to take out bulky water types. How about Mega Venusaur? It can easily OHKO or 2HKO most of the bulky waters with a good grass type move and can tank most attacks Cobalion are weak too (due to Thick Fat). Talonflame wrecks this, so it can be paired with Rotom-W to fill in the cracks. Good job on that Pokemasta77!
Pokemasta77
We'll think about it. So far, however, things aren't looking too hot since it fails against all of the S-ranked mons save for Charizard-Y.
We'll think about it. So far, however, things aren't looking too hot since it fails against all of the S-ranked mons save for Charizard-Y.
When considering Cobalion's viability, one should really compare it to Terrakion and Keldeo, which are much better attackers overall. Terrakion has a better STAB combination, and can run effectively anything Cobalion could want to run, but with better success. For example, +1 Terrakion will always 2HKO Skarmory and Slowbro with SR and the correct move. The only niche it has as a physical attacker is that it fares better against Fairy-types. As a CM-booster, it pales in comparison to Keldeo, who has better STABs and doesn't have to rely on Focus Blast. Base 90 Attack isn't ultimately that threatening, so Assault Vest is a mediocre choice. Thanks to good physical bulk, Cobalion might be able to pull off a support set, but it doesn't offer anything unique, and has trouble hitting hard. Pretty sceptic about Cobalion's viability.
Can Cincinno get an analysis? It's the only Skill Link user to abuse King's Rock as the others are better off with other items. It's pretty fast and can hax things to death. It also has a powerful rare STAB move in Tail Slap and a good movepool. But like Alakazam, it is too frail and weak to priority. Right now King's Rock Cincinno is THE threat to look out for in RU as RU has little priority and slow pokemon.
This is OU Analyses. Not RU Analyses. Know the difference.
Dread Arceus
total cockhead
We already have Cloyster for that. And if Cloyster's usually considered pretty bad, well...
I'd also agree to giving Cobalion an analysis. With Assault Vest, it is extremely bulky on both spectrums. But what sets it apart from other bulky offensive pokemon is that it is absolutely the best Bisharp counter. It annihilates Sharp with its STAB, takes Bisharp's STAB without a problem, and gains an attack boost whenever you can bait Bisharp into Knock Off. Cobalion is also useful as a fighting type that can actually beat Clefable and Sylveon, and as a Pokemon that can pivot away from slower Pokemon that would normally force it out.
TheManlyLadybug
Banned deucer.
Tiny nitpick, but move Shuckle from Unreserved to In Progress (it is being worked on by The Shellder Smuggler btw) so as not to stir up any confusion.
We've discussed Cobalion and it isn't happening. The main issue is that it's just too weak. The fact that it needs +2 to do half to Skarmory with Close Combat is pretty sad, when we have things like CB Terrakion that flat-out 2HKO it. It does half to Ferrothorn at +0. This is just sad. CM relies on a 70% accurate Focus Blast to do actual damage in its sweep. And lol, it doesn't even guaranteed OHKO a 4x weak Pokemon with HP Ice at +1. Boosting sets are relatively easy to wall and check offensively due to Cobalion's meager Special Defense and power. Assault Vest I've actually tried personally, it too suffers from being way too weak. It can barely kill anything, like:
252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 180-212 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
How much weaker can you get, unable to 2HKO Clefable with a STAB Iron Head. It's not like its special bulk with Assault Vest is even that good.
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Cobalion: 121-143 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 123-145 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And Latios's Psyshock comes very close to 2HKOing.
252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Cobalion: 126-148 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This is a Leftovers Thunderbolt from Thundurus. Not exactly the tallest order of attacks to tank for an AV Pokemon, but Cobalion is taking 40%. It just doesn't have the natural bulk nor the power to do an Assault Vest set well.
Cobalion has too many issues to function well in OU.
252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 180-212 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
How much weaker can you get, unable to 2HKO Clefable with a STAB Iron Head. It's not like its special bulk with Assault Vest is even that good.
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Cobalion: 121-143 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 123-145 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And Latios's Psyshock comes very close to 2HKOing.
252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Cobalion: 126-148 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This is a Leftovers Thunderbolt from Thundurus. Not exactly the tallest order of attacks to tank for an AV Pokemon, but Cobalion is taking 40%. It just doesn't have the natural bulk nor the power to do an Assault Vest set well.
Cobalion has too many issues to function well in OU.
I will be reserving toxicroak
Is Gallade any good? With the prevalence of dark type moves, Gallade will get a lot of Justifed boosts and may take the attack due to his good special bulk. Gallade also has an insane physical movepool, from Leaf Blade to Play Rough to Thunder Punch. I'm just suggesting.
Hopefully he's good.
Hopefully he's good.
You can use it, and it will be good, but it's outclassed pretty badly. :'(
Most Dark attacks are physical, which Gallade falls quickly to.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 312-368 (112.6 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It can absolutely never switch in to the Knock Offs that plague the metagame. Terrakion, Absol, and Lucario make much better Justified users, if only temporary for Absol.
Its physical movepool contains Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, Leaf Blade, Knock Off, X-Scissor, Earthquake, Shadow Sneak, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Drain Punch, and Dual Chop. I'll definitely admit this is exceptional.
However, as a specially defensive Fighting type, Conkeldurr is better. As a utility/bulky Psychic, Mega Gardevoir is better. And as a Psychic/Fighting Wallbreaker, Mega Medicham is better. I don't think it's worth accepting :'(
I'll take that as a no.You can use it, and it will be good, but it's outclassed pretty badly. :'(
Most Dark attacks are physical, which Gallade falls quickly to.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 312-368 (112.6 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It can absolutely never switch in to the Knock Offs that plague the metagame. Terrakion, Absol, and Lucario make much better Justified users, if only temporary for Absol.
Its physical movepool contains Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, Leaf Blade, Knock Off, X-Scissor, Earthquake, Shadow Sneak, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Drain Punch, and Dual Chop. I'll definitely admit this is exceptional.
However, as a specially defensive Fighting type, Conkeldurr is better. As a utility/bulky Psychic, Mega Gardevoir is better. And as a Psychic/Fighting Wallbreaker, Mega Medicham is better. I don't think it's worth accepting :'(
I'm not official, so not necessarily. But probably.
I know this was already rejected but I once used a specially defensive Delphox with Wish, Hypnosis, Protect, and Mystic Fire and it worked very well. It ate up Shadow Balls from a Life Orb Latios and made them do even less damage. It might be a bit outclassed by Heatran but it has a niche in Wish and Hypnosis, keeping the team up and running while shutting down threats to it such as Aegislash. It was pretty good, especially due to its unpredictability. In my experience it was good so I don't know how you can deal with that lol.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Conk wishes it had a second STAB to work with, and it also wishes it lacked a psychic weak. AV Gallade is actually really good in RU, though I imagine it would fall flat in OU I might be willing to give it a try.
Delphox is ass, though, it was rejected for a reaosn.
Delphox is ass, though, it was rejected for a reaosn.
Why would Seismitoad get an analysis? What niches does it have over Swampert?
Dread Arceus
total cockhead
Water Absorb, mainly. It allows it to come in on Water-type attacks like Azumarill's Waterfall and get up rocks for free. Of course, the main problem with this is that most the time you're relying on prediction to get you in safely, and hoping your opponent is locked in to/only has Water moves =/
Right now, I see no reason not to give Toxicroak an analysis. I've been using it on my new rain HO team and it's just sooo good at dealing damage, staying around forever, being a bastard in general and sometimes even revenge killing. I think the post in this thread posted by Sharpteeth is definitely a testament to how great Toxicroak is.
Let's not forget the fact that Talonflame is a common switch-in to Toxicroak, but it gets just OHKOed by Gunk Shot. A dead Talonflame is a good Talonflame.
Let's not forget the fact that Talonflame is a common switch-in to Toxicroak, but it gets just OHKOed by Gunk Shot. A dead Talonflame is a good Talonflame.
It's already been stated it's getting an analysis.