Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[procrastinat]

Its Scarf set is a wallbreaker because no wall bar Chansey/Blissey that doesn't resist Fire-type attacks really wants to take a Overheat to the face. And the pink blobs can get shut down by Trick. Some of those who resist Overheat have to fear its other STAB. For example, Slowbro and Tangrowth are sometimes seen in stall teams as they form a nice Regenerator core.

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252+ SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 374-444 (94.9 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Chandelure Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 584-690 (144.5 - 170.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Chandelure Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 876-1032 (216.8 - 255.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 494-584 (122.2 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 744-876 (184.1 - 216.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Oh, you think Quagsire can wall it? Let's see:

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252+ SpA Chandelure Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 664-784 (168.5 - 198.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even Shadow Ball kills it in 2 hits, meaning Quagsire can't really switch into Chandelure at all.

Now what about Gliscor?

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252+ SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 271-321 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 195-231 (55 - 65.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Chandelure Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 288-340 (81.3 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal <=== Chandelure can run HP Ice to threaten Dragonite, Salamence, Landorus and Gliscor)

Heatran:

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252+ SpA Chandelure Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 296-352 (76.6 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Chandelure Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 216-256 (55.9 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Chandelure Hidden Power Ground vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 296-352 (91.3 - 108.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Hippowdon:

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252+ SpA Chandelure Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 331-391 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Not even going to talk about Ferrothorn and Forretress.

I never said the SubSplit set gets past Mega Zard X - just that it has the potential to kill two Pokemon on a team with that set. It can catch Talonflame using Flare Blitz and set up a sub as the bird is forced to switch out. The reason it isn't outclassed by Gengar in my opinion is its access to Fire-type moves, which allow it to get past Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Mega Mawile and Skarmory with ease, its higher Special Attack and its ability.

I'm comparing Chandy to Zard Y and Volcarona for a simple reason - they are all Fire-type special nukes/sweepers.

I like how demonstrated chandelure's special wallbreaking power on primarily physical walls like quagsire, gliscor and hippowdon. Also, why are you using a modest nature on something that is supposed to be a revenge killer, and who the hell A. uses forretress and B. Would either keep it or ferrothorn in against a fire-type? Chandelure might be able to trick the blobs a choice item, but they still wall it to hell and back. Zard-X's rising popularity on stall also shuts down chandelure.
Also, how is chandelure KOing 2 pokemon? The situation as I see it is that chandelure comes in for free (not an easy thing to accomplish BTW) and sets up a sub as opponent switches out. Incoming pokemon breaks sub and chandelure KO's it. Next pokemon comes in and either threatens chandelure int switching out, or just kills chandelure. That's 1 pokemon gone, and a smart player won't easily let you get another sub up.

Gengar 2hko's both ferrothorn and skarm, and come very close against mawile if SR is applied. The only thing you mentioned that gengar can't get past is Mega-Scizor, who is wary of Gar's SubWisp set. Finally, If you are comparing chandy to Zard-Y, you might want to mention how Zard-Y almost completely eclipses it.

 

[mertyville]

Well, guess it is a good time to try out Calm Mind MegaZam or Azelf in OU again and see how they do.
The main thing that kept MegaZam from rising was Alakazam being stronger with Life Orb and to match up with the same damage output and speed MegaZam needed to run modest, however, Deoxys-S was outclassing on those parts thanks to higher base power moves, nasty plot (nobody cared but it was there anyways) and even more speed. Now Deoxys-S is no more, so...any thoughts on that?

 

[Karxrida]

Well, guess it is a good time to try out Calm Mind MegaZam or Azelf in OU again and see how they do.
The main thing that kept MegaZam from rising was Alakazam being stronger with Life Orb and to match up with the same damage output and speed MegaZam needed to run modest, however, Deoxys-S was outclassing on those parts thanks to higher base power moves, nasty plot (nobody cared but it was there anyways) and even more speed. Now Deoxys-S is no more, so...any thoughts on that?

That main thing that keeps MegaZam from rising is it being easy as fuck to revenge kill.

EDIT: Also, anything with 72 Base Speed at +1/Scarfed will outspeed you with a + nature since Zam runs Modest for UNLIMITED POWAH.

 

[Subject 18]

Quick update: I removed the both Deoxys formes from the rankings and the update will come when Alexwolf gets back.

 

[AM]

I really want to wait a bit before we nominate or move stuff up. They were banned just yesterday that's not really enough time to give a proper evaluation. I've been using Azelf lately but I'm going to wait on giving some reasons for nomination before we go crazy nominating or moving up every possible new lead lol

 

[Aragorn the King]

I like how demonstrated chandelure's special wallbreaking power on primarily physical walls like quagsire, gliscor and hippowdon. Also, why are you using a modest nature on something that is supposed to be a revenge killer, and who the hell A. uses forretress and B. Would either keep it or ferrothorn in against a fire-type? Chandelure might be able to trick the blobs a choice item, but they still wall it to hell and back. Zard-X's rising popularity on stall also shuts down chandelure.
Also, how is chandelure KOing 2 pokemon? The situation as I see it is that chandelure comes in for free (not an easy thing to accomplish BTW) and sets up a sub as opponent switches out. Incoming pokemon breaks sub and chandelure KO's it. Next pokemon comes in and either threatens chandelure int switching out, or just kills chandelure. That's 1 pokemon gone, and a smart player won't easily let you get another sub up.

Gengar 2hko's both ferrothorn and skarm, and come very close against mawile if SR is applied. The only thing you mentioned that gengar can't get past is Mega-Scizor, who is wary of Gar's SubWisp set. Finally, If you are comparing chandy to Zard-Y, you might want to mention how Zard-Y almost completely eclipses it.

Why are you guys talking about Scarf Chandelure? That set was rejected ages ago. The viable Chandelure sets are more bulky ones with a mixture of STABs, Substitute, Will-o-Wisp, and Taunt. Bulky sets are less deadweight against offensive teams, thanks to their ability to avoid being Pursuit trapped without leaving the opponent burned. Chandelure has two good abilities; one that gives it a third immunity and one that allows it to burn/attack a Pokemon behind a Substitute. Mega Mawile doesn't run Knock Off + Substitute on the same set, so Chandelure is a fantastic counter to Substitute sets, and works decently against SD sets. It walls Mega Charizard-Y, handles Mega Mawile, defensive Heatran, Ferrothorn, Venusaur and Clefable well and also be a phenomenal emergency check to Mawile, Bisharp, and Scizor. Most people run the Scarf set, so they Sucker Punch, not expecting a ever crippling WoW. I'd say that choice locked Ghost + Psychic types are unviable in today's metagame thanks to Pursuit, but thanks to two awesome abilities, a niche typing, decent Speed, and good STAB, Chandelure is a viable stallbreaker that is not deadweight. If you aren't convinced, check out alexwolf's post here. Now, as for a ranking, it's weak to Stealth Rock, five extremely common types, relies on mediocre bulk and Speed, and becomes rather easy to play against once you know it isn't the terrible Scarf set. (Seriously though, if you use Scarf Chandy and the opponent has Tyranitar, you've completely wasted a spot on your team.) I think a C+ move could be warranted, as it is effective. However, it faces many issues and competition from Gengar. C or C+ is good for it.

That main thing that keeps MegaZam from rising is it being easy as fuck to revenge kill.

Well, it isn't the easiest thing. It's far from bulky, but it actually is only OHKOd from full by two priority attacks: Sucker Punch and Brave Bird. Everything else it can take, so you must weaken it before rking it (unless you have Mawile, Bisharp, Absol, or Talonflame. In that case, Zam shouldn't even be out.) Then again, Zam struggles to get all moves that it wants: Psychic/Fighting coverage is amazing and Fire coverage is almost mandatory for Scizor. This leaves one move: Taunt is cool for leads and vs. Thundurus (if it tries to Twave you), Protect lets you beat Greninja starting as base Zam, Shadow Ball gives you coverage v. Psychic-types, and Dazzling Gleam lets an already Mega'd Zam RK Kingdra in the Rain. Personally I like Protect the best. However, I know you didn't suggest it, but I'll just say I don't think CM Zam is good.

I really want to wait a bit before we nominate or move stuff up. They were banned just yesterday that's not really enough time to give a proper evaluation. I've been using Azelf lately but I'm going to wait on giving some reasons for nomination before we go crazy nominating or moving up every possible new lead lol

I think it's fine if we don't nominate anything relating to a change in the Deos. Some changes should have been made before the bans and are still applicable now; some things haven't really changed. It's obvious Azelf needs to be ranked and that Klefki, Lass, and possibly Rose should go up, but I do agree we should wait a bit.

 

[Karxrida]

Why are you guys talking about Scarf Chandelure? That set was rejected ages ago. The viable Chandelure sets are more bulky ones with a mixture of STABs, Substitute, Will-o-Wisp, and Taunt. Bulky sets are less deadweight against offensive teams, thanks to their inability not to be Pursuit trapped without leaving the opponent burned. Chandelure has two good abilities; one that gives it a third immunity and one that allows it to burn/attack a Pokemon behind a Substitute. Mega Mawile doesn't run Knock Off + Substitute on the same set, so Chandelure is a fantastic counter to Substitute sets, and works decently against SD sets. It walls Mega Charizard-Y, handles Mega Mawile, defensive Heatran, Ferrothorn, Venusaur and Clefable well and also be a phenomenal emergency check to Mawile, Bisharp, and Scizor. Most people run the Scarf set, so they Sucker Punch, not expecting a ever crippling WoW. I'd say that choice locked Ghost + Psychic types are unviable in today's metagame thanks to Pursuit, but thanks to two awesome abilities, a niche typing, decent Speed, and good STAB, Chandelure is a viable stallbreaker that is not deadweight. If you aren't convinced, check out alexwolf's post here. Now, as for a ranking, it's weak to Stealth Rock, five extremely common types, relies on mediocre bulk and Speed, and becomes rather easy to play against once you know it isn't the terrible Scarf set. (Seriously though, if you use Scarf Chandy and the opponent has Tyranitar, you've completely wasted a spot on your team.) I think a C+ move could be warranted, as it is effective. However, it faces many issues and competition from Gengar. C or C+ is good for it.

Well, it isn't the easiest thing. It's far from bulky, but it actually is only OHKOd from full by two priority attacks: Sucker Punch and Brave Bird. Everything else it can take, so you must weaken it before rking it (unless you have Mawile, Bisharp, Absol, or Talonflame. In that case, Zam shouldn't even be out.) Then again, Zam struggles to get all moves that it wants: Psychic/Fighting coverage is amazing and Fire coverage is almost mandatory for Scizor. This leaves one move: Taunt is cool for leads and vs. Thundurus (if it tries to Twave you), Protect lets you beat Greninja starting as base Zam, Shadow Ball gives you coverage v. Psychic-types, and Dazzling Gleam lets an already Mega'd Zam RK Kingdra in the Rain. Personally I like Protect the best. However, I know you didn't suggest it, but I'll just say I don't think CM Zam is good.

I think it's fine if we don't nominate anything relating to a change in the Deos. Some changes should have been made before the bans and are still applicable now; some things haven't really changed. It's obvious Azelf needs to be ranked and that Klefki, Lass, and possibly Rose should go up, but I do agree we should wait a bit.

Losing Magic Guard means it takes SR damage whenever it switches in after MEvoing and some priority users like Azumarill aren't OHKO'd by Zam while they 2HKO back.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 169-201 (67.3 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 217-256 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 148-175 (58.9 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 163-192 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 229-271 (91.2 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 48 SpD Scizor: 204-240 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 334-394 (133 - 156.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 238-282 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (too lazy to look up standard Talonflame's set, but lol)

 

[Aragorn the King]

Losing Magic Guard means it takes SR damage whenever it switches in after MEvoing and some priority users like Azumarill aren't OHKO'd by Zam while they 2HKO back.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 169-201 (67.3 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 217-256 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 148-175 (58.9 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 163-192 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 229-271 (91.2 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 48 SpD Scizor: 204-240 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 334-394 (133 - 156.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 238-282 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (too lazy to look up standard Talonflame's set, but lol)

Well, to be fair, Zam should always be preserved to a point at which it won't have to switch out. CB Scizor is basically non existent, and Zam has HP Fire for it; it doesn't have to rely on Focus Miss. Also I said BBird was one of the only moves that could revenge kill Zam. Zam is supposed to clean when all of its checks are weakened (like Azumarill), and all Sucker Punch/Priority Brave Bird/fast Scarf users are dead.

Nevertheless it shouldn't be running Calm Mind and should only switch if absolutely necessarily. It usually wants to come it and clean, unless you use a Taunt lead version, which switches a lot. I don't like that set, but it is relatively common.

 

[Blizzardhail]

snip

M-Alakazam is a cleaner and wall breaker. If you don't clear out the things that revenge or threaten you, you can't clean up to opponent's team. For example DD Zard is near useless if it gets paralysed by Thundurus or revenged by Scarfchomp while at +1. Even an Azumarill at +6 can't clean if there's still a M-Venusaur on the opposing team.

 

[Karxrida]

M-Alakazam is a cleaner and wall breaker. If you don't clear out the things that revenge or threaten you, you can't clean up to opponent's team. For example DD Zard is near useless if it gets paralysed by Thundurus or revenged by Scarfchomp while at +1. Even an Azumarill at +6 can't clean if there's still a M-Venusaur on the opposing team.

The difference is you need like half of your opponent's team dead before you can get to cleaning. Other, better cleaners have a notable resistance to priority (such as Mega Ampharos, which resists Talonflame's BB, Azumarill's Aqua Jet and Scizor's Bullet Punch) while Mega Zam only resists 1 and the most common user, Breloom, is known to run a Sash so it can Spore stuff. Zam is scared out by too much and Trace is way too situational.

 

[Tressed]

The difference is you need like half of your opponent's team dead before you can get to cleaning. Other, better cleaners have a notable resistance to priority (such as Mega Ampharos, which resists Talonflame's BB, Azumarill's Aqua Jet and Scizor's Bullet Punch) while Mega Zam only resists 1 and the most common user, Breloom, is known to run a Sash so it can Spore stuff. Zam is scared out by too much and Trace is way too situational.

If we're being fair here, failing to provide any sort of damage on a common Sash mon is a failure on the player's part, and Spore is gonna shut down basically every sweeper in the game if it can get it off, so I wouldn't be giving Zam too much crap for that.
You're also missing that while Alakazam is frail as hell, it's also really, really fast. Mega Ampharos might be bulkier and have actual resistances, but it needs to get off an Agility before it can think about cleaning, and in that regard it's almost a setup sweeper. Alakazam only needs to get in and it can clean up so long as those problem mons are gone. Not to mention that while Zam is scared out by quite a few mons, it scares out a large number of mons as well, not unlike Greninja in a way.
Trace is situational, yep, but it can still be ridiculously good, especially when you consider you can force out and steal the abilities of Landorus-I, Greninja, Kyurem-B, Kabutops, Kingdra, Excadrill, and whatever other weird stuff you can come up with in the heat of the moment (Mega Venusaur, Porygon2, Heatran, Intimidate users, Regenerators, Natural Curers, Levitates, w/e). Situational is situational, you make use of it when you can, and I think you're greatly underselling Trace's virtues.

Don't even bother with CM though, Zam doesn't want it, nor does it need it. Run sub, Taunt, or coverage.

 

[procrastinat]

Just a thought, and I know someone said to wait awhile before suggesting changes based on the Deo's being banned, but Bisharp seems like it was hit very hard by their boot from OU. It's still really strong and since hazards themselves are going nowhere, I don't think it should drop too much if at all, but certainly should warrant some attention.

There were a few posts about moving Mega-Heracross to B+ that were lost in the celebration of the deo bans, and it seemed to have some support. What are your thoughts on that subject?

 

[MegaMogwai]

There were a few posts about moving Mega-Heracross to B+ that were lost in the celebration of the deo bans, and it seemed to have some support. What are your thoughts on that subject?

Mega Heracross is my favourite mega to use in OU.

Everytime this thing comes in on a defensive mon or something like Tyranitar, something is going to recieve a huge amount of damage. Not only does it dismantle stall, it can take on dangerous set up mons like Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, etc and proceed to OHKO them. With good team synergy and team mates that can take fly spam well this thing can punch some BIG holes into the opponents team (pin missile and close combat pack so much power it's RIDICULOUS). On top of that, paralysis support, even tailwind (which I have used a lot) can enable him to easily take out faster offensive threats.

This bug can deal so well with different playstyles and just deliver so much damage for a faster sweeper to clean things up late game. I find it to be extremely reliable, 3 attacks + SD is my favourite set to run atm (setting up on the likes of Landorus-T as they expect you to switch out leads to such solid momentum in your favor... it's great).

You can invest heavily in HP, or SPEED. That's all about preference.

I think it's a really solid mon and, in my opinion, deserves the B+ ranking (if not more).

On a side note, though this last statement should not be taken into consideration, if Aegislash get's banned, this thing will be even more of a threat due to the fact that it won't be forced to run EQ.

 

[AM]

Yeah I'm all in favor of M-Heracross moving to B+. It's pretty underrated and if we're looking at it from a ranking standpoint between B and B+, M-Heracross definitely fits under the category of B+ with others like M-Medicham and Zapdos.

 

[NeonNinja96]

With Diancie now legal, I think it should start off around A- or B+

 

[Durant]

With Diancie now legal, I think it should start off around A- or B+

Well it is just barely out for like a day or something so maybe it would be better to like test it a bit to see how good it is.

 

[Valmanway]

Okay guys, let's at least give Diancie a weeks worth of testing before deciding its viability ranking.

 

[Bizdis]

Mawile is a clear S rank Pokemon

Being even harder to switch into than Landorus is certainly a plus for it, and there are many reasons why Mawile is a more threatening sweeper than even the mighty Char X. We can agree that its strong typing, good priority, and massive attack makes it a great pokemon already, but I feel like that undersells it. For one, it can beat "good" switch ins such as Heatran by running focus punch, and it has a large variety of moves at its disposal to beat whatever might give your team trouble. Fire Fang, Knock Off, and Iron Head if you really want it are all options for the fourth moveslot. Due to its priority, it can bypass popular scarfers such as Garchomp after it has set up to +2 (which is actually quite easy, and I'll post some calcs in a sec), something Char X only wishes it could do. Furthermore, Thundurus appears to being used as some sort of omnicheck to stop sweepers, but paralysis does not stop necessarily stop Mawile, as +2 sucker punches are enough to OHKO pretty bulky mons:
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 344-405 (96 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Mawile can even jump around Aegislash's KS with Sucker Punch, and although it does not ohko it, it is enough to finish Aegislash off after prior damage, and Aegislash is guaranteed not to stop a Mawile sweep.

Anyway, there is more to it than even that. Mawile is a pretty strong mon in its own right, and many people argue against it being S rank because it can be burned. Well, Zard X requires Defog/Rapid Spin support, and nobody is disputing that is S rank. Plus, Mawile is not weak to hazards, but with Heal Bell/Healing Wish support, you can bypass that weakness - I admit it is not flawless.

There is one detail that I haven't even accounted for yet, and is that non-mega mawile gets intimidate, so when it mevos, it has a much easier time setting up, being able to even tank super effective STAB hits:
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 130 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 182-216 (66.6 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In this instance, you may not even want to keep Mawile in, or just go straight for the kill, but this calc is intended for a demonstration of the hits that it can take rather than the hits you're going to let it take.

So, in summary, Mawile is not overly vulnerable to hazards, has strong priority, is harder to switch into than Lando I, has its own built-in way of setting up on pokemon that you really wouldn't expect it to, which are all qualities that Char X lacks.

Mawile may not be the easiest pokemon to use, and it is certainly not anything like the mindless hazard stacking of DeoD/S. With this pokemon, you have to play carefully, but the results if you do so correctly are even more rewarding than using some of the S rank Pokemon - after Mawile is done breaking, the game might already be over.

 

[Salemance]

Mawile is a clear S rank Pokemon

Being even harder to switch into than Landorus is certainly a plus for it, and there are many reasons why Mawile is a more threatening sweeper than even the mighty Char X. We can agree that its strong typing, good priority, and massive attack makes it a great pokemon already, but I feel like that undersells it. For one, it can beat "good" switch ins such as Heatran by running focus punch, and it has a large variety of moves at its disposal to beat whatever might give your team trouble. Fire Fang, Knock Off, and Iron Head if you really want it are all options for the fourth moveslot. Due to its priority, it can bypass popular scarfers such as Garchomp after it has set up to +2 (which is actually quite easy, and I'll post some calcs in a sec), something Char X only wishes it could do. Furthermore, Thundurus appears to being used as some sort of omnicheck to stop sweepers, but paralysis does not stop necessarily stop Mawile, as +2 sucker punches are enough to OHKO pretty bulky mons:
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 344-405 (96 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Mawile can even jump around Aegislash's KS with Sucker Punch, and although it does not ohko it, it is enough to finish Aegislash off after prior damage, and Aegislash is guaranteed not to stop a Mawile sweep.

Anyway, there is more to it than even that. Mawile is a pretty strong mon in its own right, and many people argue against it being S rank because it can be burned. Well, Zard X requires Defog/Rapid Spin support, and nobody is disputing that is S rank. Plus, Mawile is not weak to hazards, but with Heal Bell/Healing Wish support, you can bypass that weakness - I admit it is not flawless.

There is one detail that I haven't even accounted for yet, and is that non-mega mawile gets intimidate, so when it mevos, it has a much easier time setting up, being able to even tank super effective STAB hits:
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 130 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 182-216 (66.6 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In this instance, you may not even want to keep Mawile in, or just go straight for the kill, but this calc is intended for a demonstration of the hits that it can take rather than the hits you're going to let it take.

So, in summary, Mawile is not overly vulnerable to hazards, has strong priority, is harder to switch into than Lando I, has its own built-in way of setting up on pokemon that you really wouldn't expect it to, which are all qualities that Char X lacks.

Mawile may not be the easiest pokemon to use, and it is certainly not anything like the mindless hazard stacking of DeoD/S. With this pokemon, you have to play carefully, but the results if you do so correctly are even more rewarding than using some of the S rank Pokemon - after Mawile is done breaking, the game might already be over.

If im right, Mega Maw is getting its fate decided tomorrow with the update by alex as its been discussed at great length already. Soon we'll see if your sentiments were shared by them or not :D


And on MegaCross moving up, I can see it as it faces the same issues with Mega Cham with its typing and bulk being fairly well in exchange for it have sub par speed (enough to beat the walls it want to break, but sub par non the less).

 

[Srn]

Fun fact about diancie:
If you run a crodiancie set (Rest/sleep talk/moonblast/calm mind) even Mega Gardevoir has to be modest to break through you 1v1.
A psyshock misses out on the 3hko after leftovers recovery, and after 1 cm the same follows for hyper voice :]]]]
That's some pretty impressive bulk frens.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Losing Magic Guard means it takes SR damage whenever it switches in after MEvoing and some priority users like Azumarill aren't OHKO'd by Zam while they 2HKO back.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 169-201 (67.3 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 217-256 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 148-175 (58.9 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 163-192 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 229-271 (91.2 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 48 SpD Scizor: 204-240 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 334-394 (133 - 156.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 238-282 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (too lazy to look up standard Talonflame's set, but lol)

Oh hey, you're using the wrong moves. Here's how it should be:

252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 274-324 (91.9 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Technician Mega Alakazam Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 648-764 (230.6 - 271.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Technician Mega Alakazam Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 488-576 (142.2 - 167.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 244-288 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sure, Mega Alakazam loses Magic Guard, but Trace can even get Magic Guard back and turn Mega Alakazam into a frightening sweeper. It's definitely gotten more room to shine with the banishment of Deoxys-S, but I'll dig up some of my old posts to illustrate my points.

 

[LZH14]

Fun fact about diancie:
If you run a crodiancie set (Rest/sleep talk/moonblast/calm mind) even Mega Gardevoir has to be modest to break through you 1v1.
A psyshock misses out on the 3hko after leftovers recovery, and after 1 cm the same follows for hyper voice :]]]]
That's some pretty impressive bulk frens.

shhhh we dont want them to know that yet

 

[doughboy]

shhhh we dont want them to know that yet

Sorry to burst the bubble with theorymon but I don't think it will catch on. Most endgame mono-attacking CM sweepers have few exploitable weaknesses. Look at Suicune and Clefable. Both of them have only 2 weaknesses. Steel and Poison are rare attacking types, as well as Grass. With only a few rare weaknesses, it is easier to get the CM snowball rolling as well as being harder to take down. Diance has a 4x weakness, and a weakness to common attacking type (Ground) that attacks the defensive side she does not boost (eg. Attacking its physical side with EQ).

 

[alexwolf]

i am back, but due to my stupid self forgetting my laptop's charger in the ship, i only have access to the interent from shitty nets with broken caps buttons. anyway, let's get to the update:

Tornadus-T: B ---> B+
Clefable: Stays in A+
Mega Mawile: A+ ---> S
Mega Aggron: Stays in C+
Alomomola: C ---> C+
Omastar: C ---> C+
Seismitoad: C ---> C+
Celebi: C- ---> C
Cresselia: C- ---> C
Exploud: C- ---> C
Gardevoir: C ---> C-
Moltres: D ---> C-
Dugtrio: C ---> C-
Thundurus-T: C+ ---> C-
Jirachi: C- ---> D
Reuniclus: C- ---> D
Toxicroak: C- ---> D

tornadus-t: excellent pivot and offensive pokemon that can wear down its checks and counters like no other thanks to u-turn + knock off + regenerator + great special bulk with assault vest. also checks many important pokemon such as landorus, aegislash, keldeo, mega venusaur, gengar, latios, and latias.

clefable: the biggest reason that clefable stays in a+ rank is how threatening it is to teams that don't have a hard check or counter to the cm magic guard flamethrower set. it can wear down most of its offensive checks with flamethrower (steel-types basically) and it can straight up sweep through teams without solid offensive answers to it. also, its versatility is amazing and definitely one of the main factors that made it stay in a+. here are the good sets clefable can run: magic guard cm clefable, unaware wish cm aromatherapy clefable, specially defensive magic guard stealth rock clefable, pure cleric physically defensive clefable. some of those sets may be somewhat similar, but they all fill different roles on a team and provide unique ways of support or sweeping abilities.

mega mawile: mega mawile can't be hard countered. mega mawile will always pull its weight when used correctly. mega mawile has very little flaws that need to be accounted for (its two weaknesses, wow, and special attackers that don't mind sucker punch). mega mawile excels at the role of wallbreaking. all those reasons make mega mawile a s rank threat.

alomomola: c+ is good enough for alomomola. it has great mixed bulk and can wall a decent amount pf all out attackers, while passing wishes without getting worn down thanks to regenerator. however, its weakness to set up sweepers and sub users is too big to let it go to b-, and means you have to devote at least three slots to cover the stuff that threaten alomomola.

mega aggron: the rock polish set is situationally useful but the competition with other mevos is real and prevents mega aggron from being worthwhile enough for b-. i haven't seen the defensive set used a lot lately but people don't seem to focus on it, so i am leaving it to c+ for now, but feel free to talk about its defensive sets if you want to see it go in b-.

omastar and seismitoad: both excellent swift swimmers that are better than the stuff in c rank. specs omastar is almost impossible to wall under rain and needs almost no prediction to use. the only thing that prevents omastar from going to b- is competition with kabutops for a team slot, which has the same typing and is overall a better swift swimmer. seismitoad is an excellent utility attacker that can check thundurus for rain teams, while having good power and decent coverage, and even being able to lure and weaken pokemon such as chansey with knock off.

celebi: just better than the pokemon in c- rank. both its specially defensive and np sets are decent and even though they need a lot of support to work, they do more work than the c- pokemon. natural cure, reliable recovery, baton pass to escape from pursuit users, and great special bulk allow celebi to check or counter a lot of important threats, such as thundurus, keldeo, azumarill, latios, latias, rotom-w, terrakion, and breloom. reliable recovery + natural cure make sure that celebi is much more reliable at checking the stuff it wants to and not getting worn down, unlike mega venusaur. and it can go offensive, unlike amoonguss, while being able to outspeed stuff and have way better staying power.

cresselia and exploud: trick room staples, and even though trick room teams or trick room cores are not great or anything, they are still good enough for c rank.

moltres: see agent gibbs's post, but basically moltres's specially defensive set checks quite a lot of important pokemon and can be an annoying pokemon to switch into, if you manage to keep sr off the field that is of course.
dugtrio: if the opponent doesn't have a pokemon that is very vital to remove, you are playing a 5 v 6 game. and dugtrio cannot trap a lot of ''vital'' pokemon, not to mention that dugtrio must be preserved in order to trap this single pokemon, making playing around it extremely easy. this is not gen 5 anymore dugtrio, where you could force the opponent to bring in their weather inducer and get trapped or play in unfavorable weather and get wrecked.

thundurus-t: completely outclassed by thundurus.

jirachi, reuniclus, and toxicroak: shitty pokemon that almost everyone agreed should be dropped to d rank and have almost no reason to be used competitively in ou.



other than a small nerf to ho teams thanks to the absence of deo-s and deo-d, i don't see their absence affecting the viability list drastically, so let's keep on discussing whatever we want for now. and here is me hoping aegislash won't get banned because then we will have to start the list from scratch (jk). finally, diancie won't be added yet, it will probably be added in a few days though.

 

[MegaMogwai]

What about Mega Heracross?