XY Sky Battles

[Temporaryanonymous]

Since the month is almost over, and pokebank is out, I wanted to share my thoughts and team about this meta. This was definitely a pretty fun (if centralizing) meta. One of the first things I've noticed in this meta was that it was pretty specially based. Another interesting thing to note is that the speed tiers are quite funny here, with 100 being very desirable. Stealth rock is also a pretty powerful move in the meta. As a whole, here are the pokemon I think really stood out:

Aerodactyl. This thing is just a beast with a blistering 130spe, a decent 105 attack, and a potential to mega evolve. There really should be two sets used on this. Either a sashed lead meaning to set up stealth rock and/or deal damage, or a mega evo that uses hone claws and elemental fangs (ice and electric are really good). The main downside is that it's not that sturdy, and anything scarfed will outspeed it as this will rarely carry scarf.

Yanmega. This thing gets faster and faster, making it very hard to revenge kill. Yanmega also carries giga drain to take care of Rotom-w. It has a weakness to rocks and can't really hit some things like Zapdos or Togekiss, but it's good nonetheless.

Flygon. An electric immunity in this tier is great, and it also gets U-turn and Stone edge. The only thing worrying about it is a 4x weakness to ice. It has a great 100atk and 100spe.

Rotom. This thing is probably #1 usage in sky battles. Without a weakness to electric moves, a resistance to ice moves, will-o-wisp, electric STAB, hydro pump to hit ground types, and great defenses, this thing is the core of many teams.

Zapdos. Sitting at the nice 100 speed tier, Zapdos carries a very powerful 125spA stat and decent coverage moves. Volt switch, thunderbolt/discharge, heat wave, and hp ice rounds out its moveset, and a LO, scarf, specs, or even agility set make this one of the most dangerous threats in the tier.

Togekiss. Great defensive stats, reliable recovery, and paraflinch. Togekiss has a decent fairy typing and really good stats and with thunder wave and air slash or dazzling gleam, it can rip apart teams. It's vulnerable to electric types like Rotom and Zapdos, so make sure those are out of the way before Togekiss can do anything.

Gliscor. Very physically defensive, reliable healing, and can set up and remove hazards. Definitely more of a support pokemon (though offensive variants are possible), but it really has to watch out for HP ice or other ice moves.

Cryogonal. This thing has 105 speed and thus, can outspeed other popular pokemon like Charizard or Zapdos that sit at 100. Cryogonal is decently bulky in the special department, and also carries freeze dry, a way to hit Rotom-w.

Bronzong. It has a decent defensive type, and can act as support with hypnosis and stealth rock.

Xatu. It's the only thing in this tier that can bounce back hazards. This means a lot, and it's a decent support pokemon with status, momentum, damage, or screens.

Skarmory. Very bulky defense, can set up stealth rock, phaze, heal, and also defog. It's just that in a meta where most things carry electric moves, it's not as great as it is in regular OU.

Talonflame. Keep rocks away from this guy, and priority brave bird will still get you places.

Charizard. Gen one's time to shine! Charizard sits at a nice 100 speed tier, and if it weren't for the 4x weakness to rocks, it'd probably be the most used. Charizard X gets a very powerful flare blitz, thunder punch, dragon claw, and dragon dance, pushing its speed all the way to scarfed Zapdos. Charizard Y on the other hand, gets powerful sun boosted STAB, and solarbeam can pick off slightly weakened Rotom-w.

Here's the team I used (complete with silly nicknames). It got 24 wins and 4 losses.

Hide

I'm the best okay (Charizard) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Thunder Punch

Raging against machine (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

wow whoa much wise (Xatu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
- Night Shade

Sipper of beds (Zapdos) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Heat Wave

Badness cube (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 Def / 244 HP / 16 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang
- Protect

Toge (Togekiss) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder Wave
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Dazzling Gleam

A breakdown of all the pokemon I chose and why:

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Charizard - This is my physical sweeper. If it can come in without rocks, and set up a dragon dance, it can deal some damage. At +1, flare blitz is guaranteed to either kill skarmory, or drop it down to 1hp (even without the attack boost, flare blitz cleaves off over 80% of 252hp 232+def Skarmory's hp). +1 Dragon claw is a guaranteed 2hko on non physically defensive variants of Rotom-w, and the dragon typing Charizard gets lets it be neutral to water and to resist electric, while also not having a wow burn hazard. With just one dragon dance, Charizard X can also guarantee a kill against 252hp Togekiss. Definitely a very potent sweeper.

Rotom - Bulk, bulk, bulk. This pokemon is the epitome of bulk. It can burn physical attackers and use volt switch to gather momentum, and even hit ground types with a hydro pump. With just 4 spA evs, a hydro pump has a 31% to 1hko Gliscor. Rotom also counters Togekiss in resisting flying, and being immune to thunder wave. This is one half of my defensive core (alongside Gliscor)

Xatu - A way to deflect stealth rock is highly appreciated, and Xatu also supports with night shade, spreading paralysis, and having a slow U-turn to keep momentum. The given EVs make it physically defensive in that it can survive the onslaught of the (mostly physical) rock setters. The given EVs virtually ensure that it cannot be 1hko'd by any physical attack, and it can roost off damage or cripple the opponent. Another great reason I have this is because of the fact that I make use of fast volt-switches, so I can deal damage to a lead, and then bounce back rocks. Xatu is even more pivotal on my team since I do not personally carry a spinner or defogger, so I must use Xatu to either block or reflect stones.

Zapdos - A late game sweeper, scarfed zapdos can also function as a lead or scout and can be paired with Xatu, Gliscor, or Rotom-w when pulling a fast volt switch. HP ice is a 1hko on Gliscor, and thunderbolt does enough to 2hko most of the tier. The biggest advantage Zapdos has is that if the opponent does not know it's a scarf, it can just rip apart teams. Heat wave is for Bronzong, but thunderbolt, volt switch, and hp ice are the real big players here.

Gliscor - The physically defensive alternative to Rotom-w. Gliscor can set up rocks, recover reliably, and have some sort of offensive presence. Toxic and defog are also options, but Gliscor's real bulk comes when it can live Mega charizard X's boosted(!) attacks, recover, and hit back with stone edge.

Togekiss - Togekiss is another late game cleaner, and should only really be used when Zapdos and Rotom-w are gone so it can paraflinch. Dazzling gleam is usually an emergency option reserved for hitting dragons or Zapdos or Rotom-w. Dazzling gleam from modest 252 Togekiss 2hkos Zapdos and 4hkos Rotom-w, but Togekiss really appreciates having those electric types removed first.

 

[aVocado]

Will this continue to be an official ladder/tier on PS? If so, then thats fucking awesome. I love this. Much better than the broken OU atm.

 

[Loudo]

I think it should. The beauty of Sky Battle and Inverse Battle is that they are official metagames.
(By the way, it would be totally awesome if we could get a more fitting background for Sky Battles.)

Any impression on the new post-Pokébank Pokémon available?
The new Levitators look like the most significant additions: the pixie trio, Cresselia, Claydol, Eelektross, Mismagius.
EDIT: Oh, and Thundurus. Zapdos seems kind of obsolete now.

 

[Temporaryanonymous]

I don't think I'd really enjoy post pokebank as it introduces all the gen 4 legends and the genies. Thundurus-therian will probably break the metagame in half with an astounding 101 speed tier, a powerful 145spA, and volt absorb, making it immune to and able to easily switch into electric attacks. It's like Zapdos but better in every way.

 

[Loudo]

By the way...

SPEED TIERS

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160: Ninjask

150: Aerodactyl (Mega)

130: Aerodactyl, Crobat

126: Talonflame

125: Swellow

123: Noivern

121: Tornadus (Therian)

115: Azelf

114: Swoobat

111: Thundurus (Incarnate), Tornadus (Incarnate)

110: Archeops, Jumpluff

105: Cryogonal, Mismagius, Scyther

103: Emolga

101: Landorus (Incarnate), Pidgeot, Thundurus (Therian)

100: Charizard, Fearow, Flygon, Salamence, Staraptor, Zapdos

98: Hydreigon, Swanna

97: Sigilyph

95: Gliscor, Haunter, Mesprit, Xatu, Yanmega

93: Unfezant

91: Landorus (Therian), Rotom (Normal)

90: Moltres

89: Vivillon

86: Rotom (Alternate)

85: Articuno, Cresselia, Ledian

81: Gyarados

80: Altaria, Braviary, Dragonite, Drifblim, Mandibuzz, Uxie, Togekiss

75: Claydol

71: Honchkrow

70: Butterfree, Lunatone, Mantine, Noctowl, Skarmory, Solrock

66: Mothim

65: Beautifly, Chimecho, Pelipper

60: Masquerain, Weezing

51: Tropius

50: Eelektross

48: Unown

46: Carnivire

40: Vespiquen

33: Bronzong

25: Duskull

Can anyone confirm if Landorus-T and Shaymin-S are legal in Sky Battles? Their sprites were grounded in the last generation.

 

[adman2]

Here's some thoughts of mine after playing a bunch of (mostly successful) Sky Battles on my first day on Pokemon Showdown:

Gyarados: USE IT! The Bulky Dragon Dancing set is good in particular. Since Substitute is not available, I use Ice Fang instead to take out Dragons and such. Use your Mega Slot for Mega Gyarados if at all possible.

Talonflame: Good revenge killer, but it mainly sits around when it's not doing that. The fast Pokemon common in the tier and the relative lack of Fighting, Grass, and Bug types hurt it.

Flygon: I love Scarfed Flygon, but ThunderPunch is for chumps (it can't even one-shot Aerodactyl, if I remember correctly, after one unfortunate attempt of mine). I see surprisingly few Togekiss, so Outrage isn't suicide. It also resists Stealth Rock, which is always welcome in a tier so vulnerable to it.

Rotom: Rotom is everywhere, but oddly enough the refrigerator is the most common form. I use a physically bulky set, though I may consider changing it to a faster variant or something.

Vivillon: I see it on occasion from players who want a Volcarona substitute, but it's kind of crummy here. It's usually used with Focus Sash.

Skarmory: I like specially defensive Skarmory. It's still great for walling physical attacks, but special moves seem to be more popular with the absence of most of the common special walls.

Latios: Latios is quite a threat without pesky Fairies or special walls to block its path. Always be sure to account for it when building teams.

Aerodactyl: It's fast and its Stone Edge can take out a lot of things. Consider Taunt and Tailwind if you want a supporting role for it.

Charizard: Charizard Y is more common than X, and I don't know why. Not many teams running Y benefit from the sun all that much. Many of sun's abusers are banned from Sky Battles, and not all that many of the Pokemon that are allowed are weak to Water.

Stealth Rock: Bring it on every team you can, and use it as soon as possible. I haven't seen Defog used all that often. Unless the team has Crobat or Mandibuzz, you shouldn't have too many problems.

 

[Hiryunix]

omfg.... Eelektross in sky battles I knew the eel would be awesome one day.
I can see it wrecking house with something like this.

Eelektross @ assualt vest
nature: bold
252 hp/ 252 def/ 4 spa
voltswitch
dragon tail
flamethrower
acid spray

The point of this set is to be a defensive pivot.
Volt switch allows for some massive damage and letting you switch in a faster pokemon.
Dragon tail is great for taking care of SD gliscor and DD gyrados.
flamethrower can hit pokes like cyroganal and yanmega.
acid spray to lower some stats before either they naturally switch or I switch.

 

[aVocado]

I never considered running Rotom-Fridge.. it's an awesome idea, Rotom-W was my natural selection because of it's neutrality to SR and the fac tthat it resists Ice.

I've been having success with Scarf Flygon, it's pretty amazing as a revenge-killer, it's not a banded adamant priority brave bird spammer like talonflame, but it resists SR, immune to electric, and has a fast Outrage/Stone Edge which are useful as shit. The only problem is that I don't know what to run in the 4th slot; currently I'm running ThunderPunch but usually never needed to use it... if only it could learn Ice Punch..

And mother of god, DD Mence is amazing. Grab one DD, moxie as an ability, and depending on whether Outrage hits twice or thrice, you're guaranteed 2-3 kills unless you're revenged by CB talonflame or something. It's pretty amazing. I run Salamence @ Yache Berry, Moxie, DD/Outrage/Stone Edge/Fire Blast with a Hasty nature.

Anyway, how does one deal with the genies? They're pretty annoying, especially Thundurus-T. That, and choice Lati@s. They're annoying as fuck and really hard to deal with.

 

[adman2]

I never had a ton of problems with the genies, since they die pretty quickly to Rock moves. Latios and Latias are more annoying. I use Togekiss to counter them, since it has pretty good Special Defense for the tier. Cresselia can also take hits well.

EDIT: Beware of Thunder Wave.

 

[aVocado]

I originally had Togekiss on my team, but I replaced it with Cryogonal now and it's much more effective. Togekiss was pretty useless on my team, and I just had her there because it's the first thing that came to my mind, so it was very replaceable. And it was never a good Lati@s switch in as they always spam Ice Beam or Tbolt, which is a 2HKO.

The Cryo set I use is this:

Cryogonal @ Life Orb
248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid
- Freeze Dry
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Freeze Dry is replaceable I gotta admit, but hitting Rotom-w and Gyarados for x2 and x4 respectively is pretty nice. I had HP Rock over Rapid Spin and used Skarmory as a Defogger, but I replaced Defog on Skarm for Taunt because I found myself in Skarm vs. Skarm situations pretty often, and Taunt helps me render their Skarm useless for a few turns or force a switch, which is when Whirlwind comes in play :3

Cryogonal now is pretty much my only reliable switch-in against Lati@s and all 3 genies, as it outspeeds the genies bar Thundurus-I and Tornadus, and KOs them. While mostly not caring about anything Lati@s throws at it.

 

[adman2]

Cryogonal is surprisingly bulky on the special side, as I've found out the hard way. Good thinking, Arikado!

As for Freeze Dry, it's not like Cryogonal has a lot of options in its move puddle! :)

*Steals set. . .mostly*

 

[Itsame]

Mega Gyarados seems like it could be a premier physical sweeper in this meta, as well a good eliminator of common mons, or even a wall. He's pretty bulky with 95/109/130 defenses. It seems to me that he's an AMAZING all-purpose mon here. I personally have been using a set-up sweeper set as follows:

Gyarados@Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Dragon Dance
Crunch/Ice Fang
Stone Edge
Waterfall

The basic idea here is to switch in, intimidate for a little bulk, mega up, and dragon dance if needed. I can't really decide whether I like Crunch or Ice Fang better. Crunch can take out things like Bronzong fairly easily, but Ice Fang gives added insurance against the Dragon-types that run rampant. As for Waterfall, I may or may not replace it with Aqua Tail, but for now, the flinch chance of Waterfall has saved me more than once.

 

[aVocado]

Regular RestTalk Gyarados is -much- more threatening IMO. The tier has enough Dragon Dance sweepers already, with Salamence and Dragonite. RestTalk Gyarados is a huge pain in the ass and can shuffle teams with Dragon Tail.

MeGyarados is bulky yes but it doesn't have leftovers recovery, sadly. And it needs it. It also loses Intimidate for a pretty useless ability in Sky Battles.

If you want to go for a DD Gyarados though, Adamant should be used, especially if it's mega. It can afford being outsped by Aerodactyl at +1, while the extra power is needed imo.

 

[adman2]

I've only ever seen Mega Gyarados, but the RestTalk sounds interesting. Stealth Rock sounds like a pain given how common it is.

 

[Loudo]

While Cryogonal is amazing, its Defense is so horrible that it gets OHKOed by Lati@s's Psyshock. I wouldn't consider it a reliable switch-in.

RestTalk Gyarados is pretty good. The main problem with it is that Electric attacks are everywhere.

Rotom-H is also pretty decent and is a good alternative to Rotom-F. They both resist Electric and Ice and are weak to Rock.
While Ice is a better offensive type than Fire, Overheat is a better attack than Blizzard. Rotom-H fares better against a few threats like Cryogonal, Eelektross, Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, and (of course) Rotom-F, while Rotom-F fares better against Rotom-W and special Dragons (physical Dragons are probably going to get burned anyway).

 

[aVocado]

It's honestly the only decent Lati@s switch in that I can think of. Togekiss is 2HKO'd by BoltBeam, SpD Skarmory is just pathetic, and Rotom-w can barely take them on. What else is there?

I've only ever seen Mega Gyarados, but the RestTalk sounds interesting. Stealth Rock sounds like a pain given how common it is.

I've ran up against quite a few Gyarados and MeGyarados, and RestTalk was always the most annoying to take down. But yes, the downside is that it's indeed x4 weak to Electric in general, and especially Volt Switch.

 

[Loudo]

Cresselia is pretty much the only Pokémon that is garanteed to survive any 2 attack combination Lati@s may use, even against Choice Specs and with Stealth Rocks on.
Bronzong fares well against anything weaker than Life Orb Shadow Ball.

I can't think of anything else.

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

Mega Gyarados seems like it could be a premier physical sweeper in this meta, as well a good eliminator of common mons, or even a wall. He's pretty bulky with 95/109/130 defenses. It seems to me that he's an AMAZING all-purpose mon here. I personally have been using a set-up sweeper set as follows:

Gyarados@Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Dragon Dance
Crunch/Ice Fang
Stone Edge
Waterfall

The basic idea here is to switch in, intimidate for a little bulk, mega up, and dragon dance if needed. I can't really decide whether I like Crunch or Ice Fang better. Crunch can take out things like Bronzong fairly easily, but Ice Fang gives added insurance against the Dragon-types that run rampant. As for Waterfall, I may or may not replace it with Aqua Tail, but for now, the flinch chance of Waterfall has saved me more than once.

Id run Ice Fang, as Gyarados can't learn Crunch.

 

[adman2]

I've experimented with Payback on Mega Gyarados before, and it's okay for Latios and Latias. It can also hit Cresselia a bit if you want to. Cresselia is so annoying to fight when it appears, but few people use it. . .

 

[aVocado]

Yeah, I've ran up against a Parafusion Cress with T-Wave, Swagger, Ice Beam and Psychic. She was so fucking annoying it was unbelievable. Couldn't have taken her out if it wasn't for some smart playing + VoltTurning..

 

[aVocado]

So, I just realized that Antar pulls even Sky Battles usage data, and since mods get pissed if we post about anything there, discussing it here would be better.

Aerodactyl is #1 which is really weird imo. I haven't seen it much on my days in the ladder.. but then again, I'm still provisional... The others don't strike me as odd at all but I'm surprised Lati@s and Thundurus aren't that high in usage.. not even top 10. they're clearly the most dangerous sweepers in the metagame.

Hydreigon is also pretty high and for good reason, motherfucker is good. I have no idea why people use Dragonite though; I much rather DDMoxieMence. Give it Yache Berry for the random HP Ices, and it can often pull off 2 DDs.

I'm also kind of surprised by Staraptor's place, it kinda sucks..

And Thundurus is #34, wow. Sure it's weak to 3 of the most common attacking types, but it's still got one of the best speed tiers in the metagame and a seriously strong Thunderbolt. It's only outsped by Aerodactyl and Crobat, and it resists Talon's Brave Bird. I don't know why it's not being used more.

 

[Loudo]

Arikado, remember, those are the December usage stats.
Post-Pokébank stuff like Lati@s and Thundurus was only allowed in the last 5 days or so of the month.

 

[aVocado]

Arikado, remember, those are the December usage stats.
Post-Pokébank stuff like Lati@s and Thundurus was only allowed in the last 5 days or so of the month.

Oh, really? I thought it would allow Pokebank 'mons just like how we had a Pokebank OU tier before it was released.

Oh well, that blows :p

 

[adman2]

I tested RestTalk Gyarados. It is pretty good, but Stealth Rock will wear it down quickly without support.

I fought a guy just now who only used Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres. He didn't seem like he was joking in the chat. . .

 

[aVocado]

Don't diss articuno, dude. Motherfucker is seriously hard to take down if you're not prepared for it. It fucked me up with Ice Shard before. Yes, Ice Shard. Especially since I run 2 dragons in my team(DD MoxieMence and Scarf Flygon).

It also forced me to draw out Talonflame and killed it with AncientPower...

Might be just that my team's not prepared for it, or I misplayed.. but it's a fact that it's hard to take down, even with the x4 weakness to SR. ._.