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XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)
- Thread starter Ace Emerald
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sleep powder, spikes roserade is one of the best hazard setters and pokemon in general at the moment. It checks or counters almost all of the water types in uu (slowbro never seem to run psyshock any more). My only concern aboput it is that it NEEDS to run life orb to secure more kos, which between switching into scalds and non stab icebeams does wear it down quickly. in conjunction with this, sleep powder and leafstorm tend to miss at the worst of times
Any other good defiant/competitive pokemon to take advantage of defog/sticky web now that bisharp's gone?
Milotic or Empoleon maybe?
Both of the above are specially attacking 'mons. However, Primeape, Purugly and Braviary are physical; consider them! (braviary is by far the best of those).
braviary is very good. you could run a choice scarf or band and basically net a kill.
Empoleon could run a sd set with aqua jet drill peck and metal claw but its pretty meh.
A decent alternative could be defiant tornadus. It has a usable atk stat access to bulk up, acrobatics, superpower and knock off. You could run lum berry to stop against status and boost acrobatics. Those 3 moves give flawless coverage and the speed stat is so ideal. Eing faster than terrakion, mienshao, haxorus, hydreigon and most megas (abandon all hope against aerodactylband manectric)
The problem is that bisharp was the perfect latias defog counter. It doesnt give a lick against dragon and psychic moves, it didnt care about hp fighting or fire since it has access to sucker punch. It could play mind games with pursuit too.
Empoleon is similar in the vain of defensive typing like bisharp, but tornadus can take on the offensive nature like bisharp.
Purugly primeape and braviary have no business switching in on latias unless you want to try a band scarf braviary, but staraptor is faster and hits much harder.
milotic could be a decent competitive user. as a bulky sweeper (its speed isnt too terrible either) it could switch into a defog or sticky web and prepare to smash
Milotic has competitive which is the SpA version of defiant. Point taken about empoleon, though he still has 86 Atk, waterfall, EQ, rock slide, knock off
The problem with Braviary and Tornadus is that they aren't affected by sticky web so they can't get the boosts off of that. Though at least they've got the movepools to work with countering defog
Ok so maybe I'll get a little flak for this but I've been using Specs Jolteon recently and I've found it to actually be an overall really solid 'mon. It doesn't have great coverage but it's a lot stronger than Manectric and it has Baton Pass, which allows it to get stuff like Keldeo in for free as the opponent goes to a Ground-type. Often I'll find I weaken the opposing team throughout the game and then just clean up with a blazingly fast specs Thunderbolt. It's not bulky but it has just enough durability to eat a couple of weaker priority moves if it needs to (such as Weavile Ice Shard) and just enough power to clean up a team that's take a few hits. Being able to outrun stuff like Tornadus-T and Keldeo/Terrakion is really useful in my experience, especially because it has enough special bulk that it can actually switch into a Hurricane relatively comfortably. It's not something that looks like it would shine compared to the titans currently infesting the tier but when I've played it well it feels like it's contributing to every victory.
Braviary doesn't face a viability problem. It faces an outclassed problem. Sure, you could use it as a Band/Scarf 'mon over Staraptor, but the only time Braviary is going to be better than Staraptor is in the presence of Defog users. Otherwise, Staraptor is much faster (huge because its fast enough to outspeed other Scarfers such as Heracross and Darmanitan while also outspeeding +1 Haxorus and +1 Zygarde) and is stronger on average thanks to Reckless. Braviary may have better bulk than Staraptor, but this is counteracted by the fact that both use Brave Bird as their main STAB move.
FastFlygon, I actually like Specs Jolteon. In fact, I was using it with Scarf Staraptor before Deo-S was banned from the tier, and I like it quite a bit. Base 130 Speed is amazing and is faster than most of the unboosted metagame. It definitely has issues with Ground- and Dragon-types thanks to the HP nerf, but it can break down most physical walls and clean up with a fast, strong Thunderbolt once special walls and Electric-type resists are removed and/or weakened. Hard to use over Mega Manectric as Jolteon doesn't provide as much team support, but it doesn't use up the mega slot and it has better stats all around before Manectric Mega Evolves.
FastFlygon, I actually like Specs Jolteon. In fact, I was using it with Scarf Staraptor before Deo-S was banned from the tier, and I like it quite a bit. Base 130 Speed is amazing and is faster than most of the unboosted metagame. It definitely has issues with Ground- and Dragon-types thanks to the HP nerf, but it can break down most physical walls and clean up with a fast, strong Thunderbolt once special walls and Electric-type resists are removed and/or weakened. Hard to use over Mega Manectric as Jolteon doesn't provide as much team support, but it doesn't use up the mega slot and it has better stats all around before Manectric Mega Evolves.
I really don't think most of these Defiant and Competitive Pokemon can fill the gap that Bisharp left. First, it was grounded so Sticky Web was a guaranteed Defiant Boost. Tornadus and Braviary not only can't capitalize on that, but they're weak to Stealth Rock, limiting there switch ins to a quarter of Bisharp's, so even switching in on a Defog means they're potentially taking Rocks damage. Second, even on something like Primeape which is grounded and resistant to Rock, they don't have STAB Sucker Punch off 125 base Attack to mitigate a Sticky Web speed drop. Bisharp was a perfect storm like Blaziken that you can mimic but will ultimately be impossible to replace.
Competitive Milotic is a cool bulky attacker but it physically cannot threaten a sweep or dismantle a team like Bisharp could.
Competitive Milotic is a cool bulky attacker but it physically cannot threaten a sweep or dismantle a team like Bisharp could.
Honchcrow has priority STAB Sucker Punch, STAB pursuit and the same Superpower Brave Bird coverage as Braviary. Right now, with Jirachi in UU, Honchcrow can Sucker Punch Iron Head or Pursuit U-Turn. Band Honchrow can also massively damage bulky threats such as Suicune, Shaymin, and Dusklops.
I've been considering Primeape myself and want to test it sometime. It has a great movepool and decent stats to work with. What does anyone think of a scarf set? Sticky web wouldn't affect his speed, it would just lock him in for no reason. +2 attack close combats off of 105 attack would hurt though, and if not on sticky web but on defog, he would have +2 attack and +1 speed to stone edge the flyer who defogged. It has dual chop or night slash for latias. I think it certainly has viability
Don't forget U-Turn, which is arguably Primeape's greatest asset, as it allows him to wear down opposing fighting switchins while possibly bringing in a check to them. And I'm not even talking about how much damage it does to psychic types.
Also I'm worried about Ape's power if scarfed, I've been underwhelmed numerous times while using it in NU. I fear it might be dead weight if he doesn't grab the Defiant boost.
Also I'm worried about Ape's power if scarfed, I've been underwhelmed numerous times while using it in NU. I fear it might be dead weight if he doesn't grab the Defiant boost.
The only Defiant/Competitive user I'd personally use would be Milotic. I don't want it to flying type, since it can't then abuse Sticky Web, so Braviary, Thundurus and others are out; and the only other Defiant/Competitive user that's not Empoleon (competitive when) or junk like Purugly, or is junk without a different better ability (Gothitelle) is Primeape and Milotic. Primeape can't really abuse Defog since switching into Latias is a huge gamble for Primeape. The Latias user could predict your switch (why else would you be using Primeape) and demolish you with Psyshock/Psychic. Milotic can switch into any of Latias' attacks, even if it has Thunderbolt, and beat it 1v1 with Ice Beam.
The Elder Fish (Milotic) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump
- Recover
- something else
If you're going to use Competitive Milotic, that's what I'd use.
+2 252+ SpA Expert Belt Milotic Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 343-406 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Expert Belt Milotic Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 257-305 (70.6 - 83.7%)
0 SpA Latias Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 116-138 (29.4 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latias Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 146-172 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
However, Milotic is slow, and unlike Bisharp it doesn't have any priority attacks. Bisharp's Knock Off also does way, way more damage, and it had Pursuit so Latias couldn't always escape. I don't think there's anything that can replace Bisharp, everything else is either flying and not affected by sticky web, would greatly prefer a different ability, is complete shit, or can't beat the best defogger in the tier. Milotic is probably the best bet, unless you specifically want to abuse defog and not also Sticky Web, in which case the fliers could also be good.
The Elder Fish (Milotic) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump
- Recover
- something else
If you're going to use Competitive Milotic, that's what I'd use.
+2 252+ SpA Expert Belt Milotic Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 343-406 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Expert Belt Milotic Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 257-305 (70.6 - 83.7%)
0 SpA Latias Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 116-138 (29.4 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latias Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 146-172 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
However, Milotic is slow, and unlike Bisharp it doesn't have any priority attacks. Bisharp's Knock Off also does way, way more damage, and it had Pursuit so Latias couldn't always escape. I don't think there's anything that can replace Bisharp, everything else is either flying and not affected by sticky web, would greatly prefer a different ability, is complete shit, or can't beat the best defogger in the tier. Milotic is probably the best bet, unless you specifically want to abuse defog and not also Sticky Web, in which case the fliers could also be good.
Yeah there isn't much that is as good as Bisharp when it comes to Defiant/Competitive. The problem with Primeape is that beyond Defiant, Mienshao outclasses Primeape in practically every way; it has more power and Speed along with a passable Special Attack to run the odd special move, so it can do most of what Primeape does, but more. Aside from that, Primeape is also kinda weak without a Defiant boost, as from my experiences with it in RU last gen have shown that it can't KO extremely bulky targets, unless it runs a CB. So yeah, in terms of Defiant, Bisharp was indeed quite unique, even though it was kinda overpowered.
As for that Milotic set, the best bet for the last slot would probably be something like Hidden Power Grass, since the move is useful to deal some sort of damage to Water-types like Slowbro, and I think HP Grass is rather non negotiabe tbh.
As for that Milotic set, the best bet for the last slot would probably be something like Hidden Power Grass, since the move is useful to deal some sort of damage to Water-types like Slowbro, and I think HP Grass is rather non negotiabe tbh.
well do we really need a defiant replacement is a good question. weavile can make a good SD knock off user and braviary has a bit more bulk. nothing will ever be exactly like bisharp, but a braviary weavile core might work
There's something I'm confused about.
But here we stand with four BL mons.
well it is coming out of its beta phase so it isnt really "UU Beta" anymore
They changed their mind.
Also he have seven BL mons (Deo-D, Deo-S, KyuB, Manaphy, Scolipede, Landorus, Thundurus-T) and one banned item (Heracronite.)
I wish people would read the posts linked in the OP.
Anyway, a few more things just got sent to BL now that the vote has concluded.
Here's the list of the items we voted on and the total of "ban" votes out of 12.
Chandelure - 2
Chansey - 2
Diggersby - 3
Gardevoirite - 5
Haxorus - 1
Hydreigon - 3
Jirachi - 3
Keldeo - 1
Medichamite - 5
Knock Off - 3
Staraptor - 10
Terrakion - 11
Wobbuffet - 12
So Wobbuffet was banned unanimously, Terrakion and Staraptor nearly so, and Medichamite and Gardevoirite were barely spared.
Expect the next round of bans in about a week or a week and a half.
That is all.
Anyway, a few more things just got sent to BL now that the vote has concluded.
Here's the list of the items we voted on and the total of "ban" votes out of 12.
Chandelure - 2
Chansey - 2
Diggersby - 3
Gardevoirite - 5
Haxorus - 1
Hydreigon - 3
Jirachi - 3
Keldeo - 1
Medichamite - 5
Knock Off - 3
Staraptor - 10
Terrakion - 11
Wobbuffet - 12
So Wobbuffet was banned unanimously, Terrakion and Staraptor nearly so, and Medichamite and Gardevoirite were barely spared.
Expect the next round of bans in about a week or a week and a half.
That is all.
Hmm, though I do agree with the Terrakion banning, I am a little suprised with the Wobbuffet banning. Though all around annoying, I never really saw it as a threat since it was pretty Underused (No pun intended). It died to common Pokemon, such as Band Victini, and Scarf Darmanitan, and why would you let something weak to it get trapped in the first place. With any good prediction you could beat it, but I suppose it required the use of rather obscure Pokemon such as Honchrow. (which I run anyways)
TPO3
Never practice; Always perform.
Rip in peace pigeon.
I'm also rather surprised at the Wobuffet ban, although I do agree with it. I didn't realize it was up for discussion. If you don't mind me asking, why is Chandelure up for voting? I don't disagree, but I'm curious to see what the reasoning behind it is. Last gen a couple of people wanted it out because there was only ~1 safe switchin for it in the tier, but I figured this year there was quite a few more, as well as more checks than there already were last gen. So I'm just kind of curious.
Also without Scolipede and Deo-D, what have people been using for spikers? Roserade and Qwilfish are things, but is there anything else?
I'm also rather surprised at the Wobuffet ban, although I do agree with it. I didn't realize it was up for discussion. If you don't mind me asking, why is Chandelure up for voting? I don't disagree, but I'm curious to see what the reasoning behind it is. Last gen a couple of people wanted it out because there was only ~1 safe switchin for it in the tier, but I figured this year there was quite a few more, as well as more checks than there already were last gen. So I'm just kind of curious.
Also without Scolipede and Deo-D, what have people been using for spikers? Roserade and Qwilfish are things, but is there anything else?
Terrakion is banned from UU? That's nonsense!
(said nobody ever.)
Kinda surprised about Staraptor and Wobbuffet but I guess I can see it. I'm glad we didn't lose anything else yet, though.
And sorry about missing Post 32 earlier. xD
(said nobody ever.)
Kinda surprised about Staraptor and Wobbuffet but I guess I can see it. I'm glad we didn't lose anything else yet, though.
And sorry about missing Post 32 earlier. xD
Medichamite seems pretty viable in OU if you ask me. The thing hits so hard, I end up 2HKOing 2 Pokemon before Medicham gets KOd itself.
Especially with High Jump Kick
Especially with High Jump Kick
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