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Media Yu-Gi-Oh discussion
- Thread starter Warped Worlds
- Start date
top 3 deck in the format are dino rabbit / inzektor and wind up .
dino rabbit is the most powerful one at the moment , usually a lagia and three/two backrows is game , and dolkka f*cks inzektors badly .
inzektor , well because destroying your stuff and plussing from it is ridiculous .
and wind up because they have that stupid turn one loop that leaves you with no hand if you don't open maxx C / veiler (and the deck can pretty much xyz spam every turn ) .
those are the main deck of the format , dark world can compete with them because they can main skill drain/deck devastation virus which really screw them badly .
tier 2/1.5 like karakuri and heros can compete but it's pretty hard to keep up with the crazy format atm .
dino rabbit is the most powerful one at the moment , usually a lagia and three/two backrows is game , and dolkka f*cks inzektors badly .
inzektor , well because destroying your stuff and plussing from it is ridiculous .
and wind up because they have that stupid turn one loop that leaves you with no hand if you don't open maxx C / veiler (and the deck can pretty much xyz spam every turn ) .
those are the main deck of the format , dark world can compete with them because they can main skill drain/deck devastation virus which really screw them badly .
tier 2/1.5 like karakuri and heros can compete but it's pretty hard to keep up with the crazy format atm .
i don't think wind-ups are that good tbh. yes, they have the hand loop but decklists are so fucking over prepared for windups these days its ridiculous. i mean think about it, everyone is maining triple maxx c with 1/2/3 veilers. that in itself is a bitch, and this is assuming you don't go second and have to deal with THREE fiendish chains in the main along with the solemn brigade. windups are one of those decks where if you shut down their normal summon before they "explode" they're kind of stuck in no mans land. not to mention factories/magicians can really clog up your hand, especially if they negate your sharks/rabbits with warnings before you can even get them off.
with that said though they're obviously still tier 1. it's just not a very good "meta" call for me. the guy that topped longbeach with windups mained with horn of the phantom beast proves my point. people expected his rabbits to banish themselves when attacked and he constantly plussed off of those plays with horns and eventually finished in the top 8.
as for whats good now. i'd say the tierlist is something along the lines of
tier 1: rabbit/inzektors/HEROs
tier 1.25: windups
tier 1.5: dark worlds
heros are amazing right now. just the fact that you have mained super polys to give laggia the big middle finger is awesome among other things like gemini sparks, skill drain, hero blast. the inzektor matchup is eh but with sparks flying around its not too bad. hero's are like the polar opposite to my description of windups. they aren't very strong in the broken play department as the most plussing you'll get is off stratos and well timed sparks, but it is so well equipped for the meta as it doesn't give two fucks about maxx-c/veiler and can fend off of the big name decks with skill drain. not to mention tking is not used as much as it was during the plant format so your dualities/ecalls are usually live.
with that said though they're obviously still tier 1. it's just not a very good "meta" call for me. the guy that topped longbeach with windups mained with horn of the phantom beast proves my point. people expected his rabbits to banish themselves when attacked and he constantly plussed off of those plays with horns and eventually finished in the top 8.
as for whats good now. i'd say the tierlist is something along the lines of
tier 1: rabbit/inzektors/HEROs
tier 1.25: windups
tier 1.5: dark worlds
heros are amazing right now. just the fact that you have mained super polys to give laggia the big middle finger is awesome among other things like gemini sparks, skill drain, hero blast. the inzektor matchup is eh but with sparks flying around its not too bad. hero's are like the polar opposite to my description of windups. they aren't very strong in the broken play department as the most plussing you'll get is off stratos and well timed sparks, but it is so well equipped for the meta as it doesn't give two fucks about maxx-c/veiler and can fend off of the big name decks with skill drain. not to mention tking is not used as much as it was during the plant format so your dualities/ecalls are usually live.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
I think that the fact that people are over preparing for Wind-ups by main-decking an inordinate amount of hand traps should highlight how broken they really are. The mentality they bring to the game - that you need to have certain cards in your deck to counter a devastating play - makes me think that the deck (or at least the loop) needs to be addressed more than anything else on the next banlist.
that would be a valid counterpoint if it wasnt for the fact that maxx c and veiler are both extremely good regardless against basically all decks in this meta. its not like anyone is maining neko mane king (or even siding for that matter :P). i do think wind-ups are every bit as good as inzektors/laggia/hero though, sorry attinoob.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
Yea, but the mentality of a first turn hand loop is one of the main reasons why people main triple Maxx "C". While the hand traps do come in handy against other tier 1 decks, they are more situational; Veiler doesn't do much vs. Dino Rabbit (outside of stopping Tour Guide) and Maxx "C" is usually just a 1-for-1 vs. Inzektors and doesn't stop their plays. With Plants gone, the only other deck that really competes with Wind-ups in terms of special summon spam is Karakuri, which don't have too many nasty first turn plays outside of Naturia Beast + Bureido or whatever.
If Hieratics and Inzektors are dominant in September, Veiler might still be popular even after the loop gets banned, especially if Konami eliminates ignition priority in the TCG and doesn't hit Tour Guide. Sadly, I've seen Hieratics OTK a couple times even while the opposing team was drawing with Maxx "C".
After the loop gets banned, (assuming the meta doesn't drastically change or another broken archetype comes out that necessitates the use of "C" or Veiler), I don't think hand traps will be quite as widespread as they are now.
If Hieratics and Inzektors are dominant in September, Veiler might still be popular even after the loop gets banned, especially if Konami eliminates ignition priority in the TCG and doesn't hit Tour Guide. Sadly, I've seen Hieratics OTK a couple times even while the opposing team was drawing with Maxx "C".
After the loop gets banned, (assuming the meta doesn't drastically change or another broken archetype comes out that necessitates the use of "C" or Veiler), I don't think hand traps will be quite as widespread as they are now.
I've been using Chain Disappearance and Chaos Hunter for over two months on DN, and they've proved to be great for handling Wind-Ups and Inzektors, and Dino-Rabbits respectively. Gozen Match handles all of them at once and Sams but as you'll all know, it's difficult to fit into a deck. All of them together tear up the top 3 decks in the game and they're really making me want to start playing Dark World again lol.
Deep Draw Dragon
Deck Total 42
Monsters (22)
Blue-Eyes White Dragon x3
Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon x3
Red-Eyes Wyvern x2
Totem Dragon x2
Light And Darkness Dragon x3
Prime Material Dragon x2
White Stone Of Legend x3
Debris Dragon x1
Masked Dragon x2
Decoy Dragon x1
Spells (14)
Monster Reborn x1
Heavy Storm x1
Mystical Space Typhoon x2
Future Fusion x1
Super Rejuvenation x2
Trade-In x3
Cards Of Consonance x3
Card Destruction x1
Traps (6)
Royal Decree x3
Reckless Greed x3
Topped 10 at regionals very consistent deck
Deck Total 42
Monsters (22)
Blue-Eyes White Dragon x3
Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon x3
Red-Eyes Wyvern x2
Totem Dragon x2
Light And Darkness Dragon x3
Prime Material Dragon x2
White Stone Of Legend x3
Debris Dragon x1
Masked Dragon x2
Decoy Dragon x1
Spells (14)
Monster Reborn x1
Heavy Storm x1
Mystical Space Typhoon x2
Future Fusion x1
Super Rejuvenation x2
Trade-In x3
Cards Of Consonance x3
Card Destruction x1
Traps (6)
Royal Decree x3
Reckless Greed x3
Topped 10 at regionals very consistent deck
I've been using lavals quite a bit on duelingnetwork. I must say they are pretty darn good, and Im running at a record of 15-1 with my current build. They swarm quite easily with rekindling. I cant wait for Card Car D, and Sweltering heat come out for tcg. Though I don't know how their success in ocg will translate in tcg.
Also finally The dark omni hero fusions coming out too. That will make Hero's even stronger too.
Also finally The dark omni hero fusions coming out too. That will make Hero's even stronger too.
I feel like making another of these posts.
Forbidden
Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning (fuck this card)
Card Destruction (Has the potential to be fucking ridiculous.)
Gateway of the Six (This card has always been broken, idk why they let it slip by for so long. Sams have a second Smoke Signal now, they really don't need to have this.)
Leviair the Sea Dragon (This has been playing havoc on the meta since nearly any deck can run it and it opens up too many doors for my liking. Perhaps not necessary with a TGU and Rabbit limitation.)
Monster Reborn (Broken. As. Fuck.)
Pot of Avarice (Tbh I think this is a better card than Pot of Greed.)
Limited
Inzektor Hornet (Seems obvious.)
Red-Eyes Metal Darkness Dragon (Nerf Hieraphtics or whatever the hell the romanization of the Holy Seal cards is.)
Rescue Rabbit (Fuck you Konami. Just... fuck you. That said the need for vanillas mitigates this enough to allow one copy.)
Snoww, Unlight of Dark World (DW Turbo is kind of ridiculous and hitting this lowers their consistency.)
Tour Guide From the Underworld (This has needed to happen for a long, long time...)
Tribe-Infecting Virus (I've been a proponent of unbanning this for a round for a while now.)
Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaighty (Three is just way too much for this.)
Wind-Up Rat (Even with Carrier limited this is probably still too good of a plus for Wind-Ups.)
Semi-Limited
Dragged Down into the Grave (I don't like hand-peaking cards and this is the better card to hit from a DW nerf standpoint since they still have triple Terraforming if they really feel like it for Gates.)
Jurrac Guaiba (Very good card, but should probably be restricted under the same reasoning as Tengu and Malicious.)
Reckless Greed (I think Long Beach proved beyond any doubt that any deck that can draw quickly can abuse the hell out of triple Reckless.)
The Transmigration Prophecy (Why not.)
Unlimited
Magical Stone Excavation (Why not.)
Primal Seed (BLS banned.)
Spore (Throw plants a bone.)
Forbidden
Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning (fuck this card)
Card Destruction (Has the potential to be fucking ridiculous.)
Gateway of the Six (This card has always been broken, idk why they let it slip by for so long. Sams have a second Smoke Signal now, they really don't need to have this.)
Leviair the Sea Dragon (This has been playing havoc on the meta since nearly any deck can run it and it opens up too many doors for my liking. Perhaps not necessary with a TGU and Rabbit limitation.)
Monster Reborn (Broken. As. Fuck.)
Pot of Avarice (Tbh I think this is a better card than Pot of Greed.)
Limited
Inzektor Hornet (Seems obvious.)
Red-Eyes Metal Darkness Dragon (Nerf Hieraphtics or whatever the hell the romanization of the Holy Seal cards is.)
Rescue Rabbit (Fuck you Konami. Just... fuck you. That said the need for vanillas mitigates this enough to allow one copy.)
Snoww, Unlight of Dark World (DW Turbo is kind of ridiculous and hitting this lowers their consistency.)
Tour Guide From the Underworld (This has needed to happen for a long, long time...)
Tribe-Infecting Virus (I've been a proponent of unbanning this for a round for a while now.)
Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaighty (Three is just way too much for this.)
Wind-Up Rat (Even with Carrier limited this is probably still too good of a plus for Wind-Ups.)
Semi-Limited
Dragged Down into the Grave (I don't like hand-peaking cards and this is the better card to hit from a DW nerf standpoint since they still have triple Terraforming if they really feel like it for Gates.)
Jurrac Guaiba (Very good card, but should probably be restricted under the same reasoning as Tengu and Malicious.)
Reckless Greed (I think Long Beach proved beyond any doubt that any deck that can draw quickly can abuse the hell out of triple Reckless.)
The Transmigration Prophecy (Why not.)
Unlimited
Magical Stone Excavation (Why not.)
Primal Seed (BLS banned.)
Spore (Throw plants a bone.)
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
There's really no point in limiting Tour Guide AND banning Leviair AND limiting Rescue Rabbit. Limiting Tour Guide should be enough to bog down the consistency of Dino Rabbit, seeing how that's the real problem card in this particular deck (and many others).
Also, hitting Guaiba is completely pointless. If it gets semi limited, people will just use Hydrogeddon.
Other than that, not bad. You hit Dark Worlds too hard though...banning Card Destruction should be enough to hinder their sackiness.
Also, hitting Guaiba is completely pointless. If it gets semi limited, people will just use Hydrogeddon.
Other than that, not bad. You hit Dark Worlds too hard though...banning Card Destruction should be enough to hinder their sackiness.
Limiting Tour Guide / banning Leviair mostly only lowers Rabbits' consistency mid-game (fewer and fewer Rabbit decks run Gold Sarcophagus it seems), not in the opening when it really counts. Rabbit needs to get nerfed regardless of how hard TGU is hit.
As for Hydrogeddon, I completely forgot about it, but it is a bit more situational since Guaiba's effect's wording lets it go off even if Guaiba dies / the killed monster doesn't go to the graveyard, which isn't true for Hydro afaik. (I could be wrong?) An acceptable alternative, in my opinion, to semi-limiting Jurrac Guaiba would be limiting Evolzar Laggia.
I want Card Destruction banned because it's a sacky card. Snoww, however, I feel is a necessary hit for hurting their consistency and staying power; I'll admit I wondered if I was a bit overzealous with a semi on Dragged and am probably flexible on removing that.
As for Hydrogeddon, I completely forgot about it, but it is a bit more situational since Guaiba's effect's wording lets it go off even if Guaiba dies / the killed monster doesn't go to the graveyard, which isn't true for Hydro afaik. (I could be wrong?) An acceptable alternative, in my opinion, to semi-limiting Jurrac Guaiba would be limiting Evolzar Laggia.
I want Card Destruction banned because it's a sacky card. Snoww, however, I feel is a necessary hit for hurting their consistency and staying power; I'll admit I wondered if I was a bit overzealous with a semi on Dragged and am probably flexible on removing that.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
Rabbit is a balanced card though. It requires you to clog up your deck with vanillas, can't be special summoned from the deck (to prevent Summoner Monk shenanigans), and can only be used once per turn. A hit to 2 would make some sense, but a limit is overkill in my view.
If Tour Guide is limited, the deck slows down a ton, as it would have to rely on drawing into Rabbit or its one copy of Tour Guide (which may have already been used to XYZ summon zenmaines or whatever) to get out the vanilla dinos. I really can't see the deck scraping past tier 2 if this change happens.
Also, as an avid player of Dark Worlds, I can say the deck has consistency issues, even with every card in its engine at 3. I don't think we need to nerf a solid tier 1.5 deck until it becomes problematic. However, I can say that Card Destruction is auto-win in many circumstances, and deserves a ban.
If Tour Guide is limited, the deck slows down a ton, as it would have to rely on drawing into Rabbit or its one copy of Tour Guide (which may have already been used to XYZ summon zenmaines or whatever) to get out the vanilla dinos. I really can't see the deck scraping past tier 2 if this change happens.
Also, as an avid player of Dark Worlds, I can say the deck has consistency issues, even with every card in its engine at 3. I don't think we need to nerf a solid tier 1.5 deck until it becomes problematic. However, I can say that Card Destruction is auto-win in many circumstances, and deserves a ban.
Cards in red, More than likely won't likely get touched. They sell packs, and until they milk them harder via reprinting (as tour guide soon will be). Then they more than likely wont all get hit.
To explain gateway breifly, six sam's have been announced to be getting an xyz so they won't touch gateway until the structure deck is dropped and they get moar fun (money) from sams.
Also If you want to break wind-ups. Hit Shark. Toss it two one. It ruins all consistency of wind-ups and turns them into karakuris which aren't bad but certainly not top teir. They will still be infuriating when they pitch your hand, but not worth crying over.
And they won't Ban all things broken. And with the next set everything perhaps outclassing what does already exist then they won't need to hit these guys. Since the release of XYS, the power creep of sets appears to be decreasing. Thus rendering the banlist alot less important.
I had some great fun with the first 2 or 3 card sets they released. Is it possible to start playing without understanding all the new cards and strategies, or do I have to spend some time understanding the metagame to avoid being destroyed?
DOWN WITH MIND CONTROL!
Taking your opponent's Utopia for free and summoning Utopia Ray is a dick move :(
Also, hitting Atum would be a better move than hitting REDMD. No need to obliterate every dragon deck in the world when there is another plausible solution.
Taking your opponent's Utopia for free and summoning Utopia Ray is a dick move :(
Also, hitting Atum would be a better move than hitting REDMD. No need to obliterate every dragon deck in the world when there is another plausible solution.
Come September its going to be interesting to see what happens with the banlist. I see the current big 3 getting a limit or two to lower consistency(though this should be obvious by then). Though I have this feeling there going to target one of the decks coming up to be top tier like Hero's, or Darkworld.
I dont see redeyes getting hit, and the most they'll ever probably do to it is semi-limit(very unprobable). I really don't see cards like monster reborn, and Card destruction getting banned for atleast a few formats
I dont see redeyes getting hit, and the most they'll ever probably do to it is semi-limit(very unprobable). I really don't see cards like monster reborn, and Card destruction getting banned for atleast a few formats
Not at all, the game is radically different. It would be like trying to go from casual R/B/Y player to competitive player now.
I love stealing utopia, so fun. But I do agree with all of that, mind control should go but leave red alone.
yup, leave red alone. but monster reborn needs togo so they'll bring DMoC back. favorite card of all time.
Using Konami logic, this is what I think the banlist would look like.
Banned:
Card Destruction
Gateway of the Six
Mind Control
Monster Reborn
Limited:
Dark Magician of Chaos
Inzektor Dragonfly
Hieratic Dragon King of Atum
Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
Semi-Limited:
Debris Dragon
Rescue Rabbit
Dragged Down into the Grave
Skill Drain
Unlimited:
Marshmallon
Summoner Monk
Level Limit Area B
Magical Stone Excavation
Explainations:
Card Destruction: Mostly a DW hit, since it allows them to do a lot of shenanigans in a single turn.
Gateway of the Six: WORST CARD DESIGN EVER I SWEA-anyway yeah the ability to make Shi En and Naturia Beast/Blade Armor Ninja IN A SINGLE TURN should not exist.
Mind Control: It wasn't bad card design at the time, but power creep has really made this card dumb.
Monster Reborn: We have 3 Call of the Haunted, which is a slower, more balanced version. Do we still need Reborn?
DMoC: Monster Reborn and Dimension Fusion would both be at 0, meaning it can't fetch those spells to re-summon itself over and over again, which I believe is the main reason it's still on the list.
Inzektor Dragonfly:Hornet would make more sense, but with the whole Zektkalibur Sword OTK flying around, Dragonfly is the one in need of being hit. Hell, I think Sword needs a hit too, just to make sure the OTK won't work at all.
Atum: Gets rid of the Hieratic OTK/Loop.
Wind-Up Carrier: Gets rid of the Wind-Up Hunter Loop.
Debris Dragon: With Plant Synchro completely dead, why couldn't this come back to two? It's a tuner with like 60 different restrictions on its own, and it could also promote Xyz's and stuff.
Rescue Rabbit: Rabbit is part of two relevant decks in the OCG (Gem-Knights and Dimension Laggia). This would be more of a consistency hit than anything.
Dragged Down Into the Grave: Again, a consistency hit for Dark Worlds (plus the whole hand peaking thing is kinda dumb).
Skill Drain: This is more of a guess than anything, but considering that the last 2 YCS's were won by decks that ran Skill Drain (2 Skill Drain decks made the top 4 in Long Beach), Konami MIGHT hit this one way or another.
The unlimitteds should be obvious. Summoner Monk for the promotion of Xyzs, and the other 3 shouldn't even be on the banlist anymore.
Banned:
Card Destruction
Gateway of the Six
Mind Control
Monster Reborn
Limited:
Dark Magician of Chaos
Inzektor Dragonfly
Hieratic Dragon King of Atum
Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
Semi-Limited:
Debris Dragon
Rescue Rabbit
Dragged Down into the Grave
Skill Drain
Unlimited:
Marshmallon
Summoner Monk
Level Limit Area B
Magical Stone Excavation
Explainations:
Card Destruction: Mostly a DW hit, since it allows them to do a lot of shenanigans in a single turn.
Gateway of the Six: WORST CARD DESIGN EVER I SWEA-anyway yeah the ability to make Shi En and Naturia Beast/Blade Armor Ninja IN A SINGLE TURN should not exist.
Mind Control: It wasn't bad card design at the time, but power creep has really made this card dumb.
Monster Reborn: We have 3 Call of the Haunted, which is a slower, more balanced version. Do we still need Reborn?
DMoC: Monster Reborn and Dimension Fusion would both be at 0, meaning it can't fetch those spells to re-summon itself over and over again, which I believe is the main reason it's still on the list.
Inzektor Dragonfly:Hornet would make more sense, but with the whole Zektkalibur Sword OTK flying around, Dragonfly is the one in need of being hit. Hell, I think Sword needs a hit too, just to make sure the OTK won't work at all.
Atum: Gets rid of the Hieratic OTK/Loop.
Wind-Up Carrier: Gets rid of the Wind-Up Hunter Loop.
Debris Dragon: With Plant Synchro completely dead, why couldn't this come back to two? It's a tuner with like 60 different restrictions on its own, and it could also promote Xyz's and stuff.
Rescue Rabbit: Rabbit is part of two relevant decks in the OCG (Gem-Knights and Dimension Laggia). This would be more of a consistency hit than anything.
Dragged Down Into the Grave: Again, a consistency hit for Dark Worlds (plus the whole hand peaking thing is kinda dumb).
Skill Drain: This is more of a guess than anything, but considering that the last 2 YCS's were won by decks that ran Skill Drain (2 Skill Drain decks made the top 4 in Long Beach), Konami MIGHT hit this one way or another.
The unlimitteds should be obvious. Summoner Monk for the promotion of Xyzs, and the other 3 shouldn't even be on the banlist anymore.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
Dino Rabbit still seems very powerful under that list. Rabbit players would just use some more cards to search out Rabbit (like Duality or Gold Sarc) to make up for the slight loss of consistency.
Also, Dragged Down to 2 is a pointless hit. It's not that great of a card, and hitting Card Destruction should be enough to stop the deck's sackiness.
But nice list overall. It might be too reasonable for Konami though...
Also, Dragged Down to 2 is a pointless hit. It's not that great of a card, and hitting Card Destruction should be enough to stop the deck's sackiness.
But nice list overall. It might be too reasonable for Konami though...
Steiner
Banned deucer.
Am I the only one who thinks putting Maxx "C" in the main really isn't a good idea? It's pretty useless against Hero and Inzektors and decent against Rabbit. The only match-up where it gives you a significant edge is against Wind-Ups, and even then you're still getting looped, so unless you have Gorz and draw into it, chances are Maxx "C" won't save you. In most of the scenarios where "C" is beneficial, I'd much rather Veiler the TGU/WU Rat/whatever instead of letting them keep summoning.
Zenmaighty isn't really the problem, it's Rat. Limiting or semi limiting rat will really cripple the loop. Same with Inzektor Dragonfly (although it's really Centipede that should get the limit imo). Hornet isn't the issue because when Grioll is released in May, it can pull off the same loop but instead XYZ for Tiras or Adreus.
But yeah, they need to damn well limit Rescue Rabbit. The deck's been dominating so many past YCS that it's become insane. It's worse than Plant Synchro in ways. >_>
But yeah, they need to damn well limit Rescue Rabbit. The deck's been dominating so many past YCS that it's become insane. It's worse than Plant Synchro in ways. >_>
