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CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Syclant Testing

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Eric, imho your final spread just doesn't have any staying power. I've tested a set like that when syclant was first available for testing, and having a SR weak, Life Orb, and god knows what else eating at your HP means you die incredibly soon. Not only that but it relies on pure prediction to get those crucial 2HKO's, so you'll be switching out whenever you get it wrong.

The first set i sugested has F sash and mountineer as options, so the passive damage can be lowerd, its got more surviveability than the set in the analysis and it takes better advantage of the tail glow boost.

for the second set i simply removed tail glow and added in some options to replace it, i also added X-sissor as an option over bug buzz as you may have higher attack than sp. attack (depending on evs), a mixed ant without Tail Glow is quite viable.
 
if any one needs the original 1st frame syclant sprite here it is :

CyzirbugbroughttolifebyKoA.png
 
Ive been trying Syclant and I've come to realize Timid on Choice Specs is a requirement. Slower Pokemon running +Speed Natures have screwed me over a couple times :|
 
Syclant is an absolute terror after a tail glow, please get rid of tial glow and give something like a special dragon dance, or growth
 
Syclant is just fragile. Hit it with a fire or rock attack, and it goes down. If you let it get off a Tail Glow, then either A. Your opponent has taken out your counters, which is the point of the game, or B. You played so badly that your opponent took advantage you, again, what an opponent is supposed to do. Yes, Syclant can take down teams, but if you're prepared for it, it'll go down easy enough.
 
Syclant is an absolute terror after a tail glow, please get rid of tial glow and give something like a special dragon dance, or growth

Please, please, please post a warstory backing this up. I've been searching the battle logs for proof of this. Enough people are saying it, that I'm inclined to believe it's true. But, no one is posting any evidence, which makes me wonder if the critics are all still playing theorymon. There are way too many battles each day for me to scan all of them. So, I'm searching for a needle in a haystack. If you've had a battle you can remember that supports your claim, I will gladly send you the log (if you didn't save it) so you can edit a warstory post.
 
ok ill go run through a team and save the log, i might have one kicking around though..


EDIT : here, please note that suicune had about 92% health and SR hurt it

Viashino_wizard switched in Happy Gilmore (lvl 100 Forretress ?).
Pointed stones dug into Happy Gilmore.
Happy Gilmore lost 12% of its health.
Syclant used Tail Glow.
Syclant's special attack was sharply raised.
Happy Gilmore's leftovers restored its health a little!
Happy Gilmore restored 6% of its health.
---
Syclant used Focus Blast.
Happy Gilmore lost 156% of its health.
Viashino_wizard's Happy Gilmore fainted.
Syclant lost 10% of its health.
---
Viashino_wizard switched in Li'l Cruton (lvl 100 Celebi).
Li'l Cruton was badly poisoned!
Li'l Cruton was badly poisoned by the Toxic Spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Li'l Cruton.
Li'l Cruton lost 12% of its health.
Syclant used Bug Buzz.
It's super effective!
Li'l Cruton lost 354% of its health.
Viashino_wizard's Li'l Cruton fainted.
Syclant lost 10% of its health.
---
Viashino_wizard switched in Shear Madness (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Shear Madness.
Shear Madness lost 12% of its health.
Syclant used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
Shear Madness lost 697% of its health.
Viashino_wizard's Shear Madness fainted.
Syclant lost 10% of its health.
-----
Viashino_wizard switched in Final Hour (lvl 100 Suicune).
Final Hour is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Final Hour.
Final Hour lost 12% of its health.
Syclant used Bug Buzz.
Final Hour lost 80% of its health.
Viashino_wizard's Final Hour fainted.
porky wins!

ran through a team, maybe not too beastly but ill get more.
 
That's not really proof. Azelf and Infernape could have done the exact same thing. That team just didn't have any Special Defense.
 
---
IkeAndTina switched in Intense Demonic Attacks (lvl 100 Syclant ?).
Intense Demonic Attacks used Bug Buzz.
Milotic lost 43% of its health.
Razputin's Milotic fainted.

Revenge kill on Milotic.
---
Razputin switched in Syclant (lvl 100 Syclant ?).
Syclant is a Mountaineer and avoided the floating stones!
Intense Demonic Attacks used Bug Buzz.
Syclant lost 58% of its health.
Razputin's Syclant fainted.

I believe his Syclant was at 58%
---
Razputin switched in Dugtrio (lvl 100 Dugtrio ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dugtrio.
Dugtrio lost 6% of its health.
IkeAndTina: Did you install it right?
Dugtrio used Sucker Punch.
Intense Demonic Attacks lost 52% of its health.
Intense Demonic Attacks used Bug Buzz.
Dugtrio lost 73% of its health.
Razputin's Dugtrio fainted.
IkeAndTina wins!
Syclant is an absolute beast! Compound Eyes + Choice Specs + STAB'ed Blizzard / Bug Buzz = Victory.

I'm running a Timid with 6 Hp/ 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe to outspeed all Base 120 with +Natures. Fuck yeah SpecsAnt!

Note: This log doesn't prove how it pwns. Just the only documented piece of me using it.
 
really? celebi, and suicune dont have special defense?

is 100 hp, 100 or 115 base sdef not much?


And fyi, with SR up a tail glowed focus blast can 1 hit ko blissey.

so if a team with celebi, suicune, gliscor, forry, blissey and snorlax cant beat syclant its quite powerful.
 
ok ill go run through a team and save the log, i might have one kicking around though..


EDIT : here, please note that suicune had about 92% health and SR hurt it

Viashino_wizard switched in Happy Gilmore (lvl 100 Forretress ?).
Pointed stones dug into Happy Gilmore.
Happy Gilmore lost 12% of its health.
Syclant used Tail Glow.
Syclant's special attack was sharply raised.
Happy Gilmore's leftovers restored its health a little!
Happy Gilmore restored 6% of its health.
I think the problem here is that Syclant got a free turn to Tail Glow. What was out that switched out for Forretress? Was it something that could have attacked it and done decent damage? If so, I'd call that bad play on the opponent's part. If not, then good play on your part.

I don't see any overpowered-ness, except maybe the Suicune kill, but I'm not a Suicune expert so I don't know if that's overpowered or not.
 
really? celebi, and suicune dont have special defense?

is 100 hp, 100 or 115 base sdef not much?


And fyi, with SR up a tail glowed focus blast can 1 hit ko blissey.

so if a team with celebi, suicune, gliscor, forry, blissey and snorlax cant beat syclant its quite powerful.

MixApe also beats that team.

And no, if you get hit on a 4x weak or focus on your Defense, those numbers aren't enough to take special hits. Not anymore anyway. Why do you think people use SpD EV's on their Blisseys these days?
 
Tsukikage pointed to a situation where he thinks Mountaineer should have kicked in. Here's the battle log snippet:

(20:27:35) Zech sent out Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
(20:27:35) tsukikage sent out Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
(20:27:35) Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
(20:27:35) A sandstorm brewed!
(20:27:46) Jolteon used Thunderbolt.
(20:27:46) Tyranitar lost 49% of its health.
(20:27:46) Tyranitar used Earthquake.
(20:27:46) It's super effective!
(20:27:46) Jolteon lost 100% of its health.
(20:27:46) Zech's Jolteon fainted.
(20:27:46) The sandstorm rages.
(20:27:46) ---
(20:27:53) Zech switched in Charizard (lvl 100 Charizard ?).
(20:27:56) Charizard used Brick Break.
(20:27:56) It's super effective!
(20:27:56) Tyranitar lost 51% of its health.
(20:27:56) tsukikage's Tyranitar fainted.
(20:27:56) The sandstorm rages.
(20:27:56) Charizard is buffetted by the sandstorm!
(20:27:56) Charizard lost 6% of its health.
(20:27:56) ---
(20:28:07) tsukikage switched in Garchomp (lvl 100 Garchomp ?).
(20:28:14) Zech switched in Syclant (lvl 100 Syclant ?).
(20:28:14) Garchomp used Stone Edge.
(20:28:14) It's super effective!
(20:28:14) Syclant lost 100% of its health.
(20:28:14) Syclant hung on using its Focus Sash!
(20:28:14) The sandstorm rages.
(20:28:14) Syclant is buffetted by the sandstorm!
(20:28:14) Syclant lost 0% of its health.
(20:28:14) Zech's Syclant fainted.
(20:28:14) ---
(20:28:21) Zech: Ouch :]
(20:28:31) Zech switched in Steelix (lvl 100 Steelix ?).
(20:28:35) tsukikage: no Mountaineer?
(20:28:41) Zech: Yeah
(20:28:43) Zech: Mountaineer
(20:28:46) Zech: :/
(20:28:49) Zech: I think
(20:28:49) Zech: .
(20:29:14) Zech: Yeah..
(20:29:15) Zech: :/

In the code, this is recognized as a double-switch and Mountaineer doesn't apply. If both sides switch simultaneously, and one side uses a Rock move as it's first move against Syclant -- it hits. This code was intentionally added after early Syclant testing revealed that in situations like post-explosion, Syclant was granted a full turn of Rock immunity.

I'll be happy to change this, if others feel I implemented Mountaineer wrong. Opinions?
 
i remember that test, my forretress exploded and then i killed syclant with stone edge. imo mountaineer shouldnt kick in on double switches. if you switch in syclant while your opponent sends in something with a rock move, you should get out regardless, not think "oh mountaineer will save me". Thats just bad prediction. Anyways, even WITH mountaineer, the next attack your dead.
 
IMO it's working fine. You shouldn't have two turns of rock immunity. Mountaineer only grants immunity on the switch in turn. If it's a double switch then the turn ends, it does not continue on. It only seems like it should thanks to Shoddys absence of a new line when pokes are brought in after death.
 
What that looks like is that Garchomp was sent in after the TTar KO, and Syclant was switched in to absorb the Stone Edge.

It seems like Moutaineer should have activated then.
 
Syclant is an absolute terror after a tail glow, please get rid of tial glow and give something like a special dragon dance, or growth
Infernape after a bulk up /calm mind / nasty plot / swords dance is deadly.

We would get rid of all those stat up moves. =P
 
A constructive critique of Syclant in hope of further improving it's design.

!-Warning, very long post. Warning-!

(I apologize in advance for an spelling and grammatical errors. Also, sorry for the wordiness; I got a bit carried away.)

A constructive critique of Syclant in hope of further improving it's design.

First, I want to say good job and well done to everybody who has put work into this guy. The sprites look awesome and like a real Pokemon. The theme is top notch as well. Conceptually, I love it (mostly... see below)!

That said, there are some major flaws in his design, which I will outline below. I am doing this because I very much want to see this project succeed and sometimes a heavy dose of constructive criticism is what is needed for success. It is a good sign, actually, because if you can't find anything wrong with a design right out of the bag you aren't looking hard enough. I'm not the type to say "Good enough," I strive for doing my best, and then I try to do better. This is what is needed to design a custom Pokemon that not only the community will embrace, but perhaps beyond this community as well. Pay extra heed if you want this guy to actually be taken seriously by Nintendo, or in any official fashion. It would need to be better designed than most any Pokemon designed by Gamefreak to have them even look at it.

I. Stats: People like big numbers. Big numbers in offensive stats (attack, sp.attack, speed) doubly so. Besides appealing to the 10 year old kid in all of us they make a Pokemon very appealing for competitive play. But when designing a Pokemon, bigger does not always equal better. A Pokemon can be competitive without having a really high stat total (look at Skarmory), but more importantly a Pokemon doesn't need to be a huge competitive threat to be an interesting, well designed Pokemon. For example, Psyduck is a great, interesting Pokemon design (as is Golduck), but they have never been top of the line competitive, even in UU. Stop for a moment; don't think about what you want for Syclant -- think about what would Syclant be like if he was actually in a Pokemon game. How would Gamefreak distribute his stats given his flavor? WWGFD? :P I'm not saying we should make his stats like Golduck, or that we shouldn't make him fun and original, but if you can't stand Golduck's stats because they are too mediocre, then you might not be in the right mindset to design a professional-quality Pokemon. I'm also not discouraging originality and creativity when designing Pokemon by any means -- but like any art or design, it's all about balancing originality with practicality -- wielding creativity with utmost precision and expertise. It's a very tricky task to walk the line between "too boring" and "too out there."

The biggest, stand out problem with Syclant's stats, comes down to the simple fact that he is a bug type, unfortunately. Ice as a type is generally quite unrestrictive as far as stats, so it comes down to bug. I'm not going to take the time to average the stats of all the fully evolved bugs in Pokemon, but I imagine it would be somewhere in the low 400s. Almost all bugs are either really bad stats-wise (below 400 total) or really average (450-500ish). The highest base stat total seen on a bug Pokemon (not counting Arceus) is Yanmega, with a grand total of 515. After that things drop quickly, the all-mighty Shuckle (505), Heracross/Scizor/Scyther/Pinsir (500), Armaldo (495)... Forretress (465)... all the way down to Ninjask at 456, which is the lowest total seen commonly in competative play. Note that Heracross, one of the top competative Pokemon, doesn't have a particularly high stat total. Now look Syclant's 555 total -- it just doesn't fit aesthetically with the others. This is not the stat total for a bug Pokemon, legendaries excluded. In fact, 555 is tied with Arcanine for highest total of all non-legendary/uber pokemon, Slaking excluded. I don't like arbitrary limits, but anything over 525 starts to look too artificially inflated just because you want this guy to be top tier. Pokemon need a reason behind having high stats beyond the desire to make a powerful Pokemon. Syclant is quite dangerous looking, so given his bug typing and overall look/feel/style/story I'd peg Syclant between 500 and 525 stat total, probably 515 as a design brother to Yangmega, the Mega Bug Pokemon.

Please realize that all of the above has nothing to do with whether Syclant is or isn't overpowered in his current form. Stat balancing for competitive play is a whole separate issue.

Looking at each stat individually, I find speed to be the most overinflated stat on Syclant. Bug Pokemon should never be faster than Scyther unless they have a really good reason. Syclant doesn't look or feel like it should be faster than Scyther, possibly the same speed, but no faster. His Physical attack is just about right, but his Special attack is a little too high. I like the original idea of a Bug Pokemon that can attack well from both sides of the spectrum, but his high Special Attack and high speed give too much overlap with Yanmega. Special attack around 90-100 would be more appropriate and original, while still allowing decent returns from Tail Glow. His already low defenses most likely will need to be cut as well to balance the higher values in both attack; thus is the cost of being a mixed attacker.

So, given the above, something like 70/ 116/ 68/ 96/ 60/ 105 would be a good spread, in my arbitrary opinion. There can still be a lot of variance with the stats of course, so by no means am I saying my opinion on how the stats should be are the gospel, just that his stats needs some fixing and this is why, and this is what I would do to fix them.

II. Ability: I look at the abilities and all I can think is no, just no. The stats make me queasy, but the abilities make me mad. Ok, not mad, but they have numerous issues. First and foremost, neither of them fit the concept of a Ice/Bug Pokemon. Mountaineer is certainly an interesting design idea, but this is the wrong Pokemon for it. Mountaineer seems mostly slapped on there arbitrarily for the same reason people like putting Levitate on Fire/Electric made-up-mons, and the same reason Syclant's speed is just 1 point higher than Dugtrio's. It's bad design, and it's not professional or creative.

Now, Compound Eyes isn't horrible, but there are much better choices, premade or not, considering all the sprites indicate that it does not in fact even have Compound Eyes. I know it's an ant, and ant's (like all insects) have compound eyes, but that alone is a poor reason to give it compound eyes. I again feel like this ability was tacked on to make Blizzard into pwnsauce. Which is - again - bad design. Look at Butterfree and Venonat, they both have absolutely huge eyes. The other users of compound eyes, Nincada and Yanma, have smaller but still very buggy eyes. Sycant has small eyes with pupils, which is great -- I love his look -- but compound eyes he has not. Additionally, compound eyes is a very powerful ability that is only given to very weak and/or unevolved Pokemon.

I'm not going to even suggest what Syclant's ability should be, because I think the community should decide and I haven't gotten any immediate inspirations for it. But I know we can do better.

III. Move Pool: The move pool is important both as a flavor choice and a game balance choice. What moves a Pokemon learns is an interesting thing; they are usually logical choices, but sometimes moves you think would be a shoo-in for a specific Pokemon aren't learn at all, and moves that seem like really bad choices for said Pokemon are there instead. I think part of this is translation issues and part of it is to make move pools not seem stale and boring. However, this issue of wtfmovepool is mostly gone in recent generations and things have started to make a lot more sense. With an increased number of moves in existence Pokemon can have variety without sacrificing flavor.

So, Syclant's move pool is overall not bad at all, but there are a few questionable choices. Right off the bat Fire Fang, Superpower and Earth Power jump out at me as big NO!s. I don't know if Fire Fang is an error and it should be Ice Fang, but giving a Pokemon 4x weak to Fire and Fire move is a big no for flavor and balance reasons. The only Pokemon that learn Fire Fang and are weak to fire are Steelix and Mawile, both steel type and both only 2x weak. Superpower and Earth Power make very little sense to me, and considering that they are both moves only learned by a small number of Pokemon we should be very cautious when deciding if Syclant should learn it. I see nothing about Syclant that indicates it should get these moves in any way. They are off-flavor choices only put in to give him uncharacteristic type coverage for a Bug or Ice. Brick break is already there for fighting type, and it makes sense. Hidden power should probably be a necessity for Syclant to get good special coverage.

Other moves that I think are debatable but can probably stay are: Bug Buzz (no buzzy wings?), Taunt, Light Screen, Reflect, Roost, Focus Blast, Drain Punch, Stone Edge, Crunch, Tail Glow. The ones in bold seem particularly unthematic and only added to increase is type coverage without concern for if it is the right move for Syclant. However, I can see at least a vague argument for why it should learn them. Tail Glow is interesting, and I think it makes perfect sense; I don't think it's overpowering if the stats are addressed.

The only addition I can think of off the top of my head is Ice Fang.

IV. In Conclusion: Syclant is a great concept and overall the design is very good -- but it can be better, and I don't think we should call it done until we feel it could hypothetically exist in one of the Pokemon games seamlessly. I love the idea of designing a Pokemon as a community. It's so much better than any designs I have come up with on my own.

A lot of my criticisms for Syclant are probably a result of the voting process favoring the immediate oomph -- trying to make really powerful Pokemon, rather than a really well designed Pokemon. Yes, you can most certainly have both, but it is unlikely for Syclant, given it's unique yet defensively weak typing. As the first custom Pokemon design, it shouldn't necessarily strive to be a top tier Pokemon, but rather a balanced and interesting Pokemon that's fun to use. Perhaps later designs can explore more powerful options. I think the place for Syclant will be one of those BL Pokemon that can be still used to great effect by a skillful player on the right OU team.

Thanks for reading. :)

[/walloftext]
 
A few things the above poster should know:

#1 It was decided right from the get-go that the pokemon was going to be top tier OU. And it was designed such. Not "Oh this looks awesome lets just randomly give it abillion atk yeah"

#2 That this Pokemon would be a mixed sweeper was decided before his stat spread, so Satk had to be on par with Atk. Thus it is slightly lowered. When you start going back on your decisions based on the result of the latest poll it causes a lot of problems. Expecially when you're making decisions in a big group like we were, needing a poll for everything major t be fairly decided. Our decisions are supposed to be made based on the past polls, not changed because of future ones.

#3 if the server proved that Syclant was broken then we would have fixed it. We've done extencive testing and have yet to prove that it is broken. If and when it is proven then the first thing to go would be Tail Glow. Then perhaps base stats. You can't expect to make something the OU level that we predetermined Syclant would be and put it on par with the UU Scyther tbh.

#4 Again, predetermined OU. We needed an ability that would stop SR damage to keep this Pokemon in the OU game. Apart from the fact that this pokemon lives in the tip tops of Snowy Mountains, Pokemon does not have to make sence. It's a fact that we've discussed about a bagilion times around here. Blissey gets Rock Climb. Lickitung doesn't have Lick on one gen. Does any of this detract from the game? No it does not.

#5 CoupoundEyes. If you were to look at the original comcept art for Syclant courtesy of Cyzir you would notice it has multiple smaller eyes on the top of it's head. Now this much detail may not have been able to be put into the sprite but the Trait poll comes right after the Art poll, so there could have been no way of knowing this. Again, Pokemon does not have to make sence.

#6 Again, Pokemon are allowed to have moves of the type they are weak to. This Pokemon does not benefit (ingame) from another Ice Type move. Fire Fang ads flavour and makes it interesting, while having no impact whatsoever on it's battling capabilities.

#7 We did nemerous polls for what moves to exclude from it's movepool. Were you there for any of them? No?, kthanxbai. Any of those moves could be argued for. Betterfree gets Roost. This Pokemon lives in the Mountains and that is why it can use Stone Edge. There are valid arguments for all of those moves when you know the whole story, which you obviously do not.

So if you think you can do a better job then we urge you to participate in the current Create a Pokemon. But as it is you're attempting to change decisions that were set in stone a long time ago by a huge group of people, all of which seem somewhat attached to Syclant. And in a post that many will interpret as an attack on either Syclant, their decisions, or the decision making process itself, and that's not going to go down well.

EDIT: Oh yeah like Time Mage said this Pokemon may turn out not to even be OU, but BL. We'll have to wait and see. Obviously it's almost impossible to find accurate usage statistics but I know many people who have come to our server as an alternative to the official and are staying despite Syclant, because they do not find it a thread. So please, I urge you to come onto out server and test Syclant out for yourself.
 
Many of those criticisms were mine as well (and some still are, like the cheap 121 Speed), but you have to consider that:

a) It's designed by the community, and everything, from stats to abilities, is polled.

b) In practice, Syclant is surprisingly NOT overpowered. And the guy who's telling you this was one very worried about its possible uberness. We'll need more battles, better battlers, and a metagame not so centered around countering Syclant (It's inevitable on Syclant's server) to gauge it corrctly, but so far, nothing is indicating it's too powerful.

c) This is firstly designed to be competitive, not to be sent to Nintendo. If, when sent, it is accepted, that's a bonus, but not the main goal. So, if we feel that Bug Pokémon deserve at least one high-BST representative in OU, we should make it.

d) Check out the second project: I think it's being better, overall.
 
A few things the above poster should know:

#1 It was decided right from the get-go that the pokemon was going to be top tier OU. And it was designed such. Not "Oh this looks awesome lets just randomly give it abillion atk yeah"

If you read my entire post you would know that I am well aware it was determined by a poll. I did in fact gone back to read all of the polls before I posted. I stated I really like the design and I think what the poll produced is a great start for Pokemon design. I do, however, believe that that design can be further improved on by the community. My above post was to try to further it's development. I only had the interest of creating the best Pokemon possible when I posted. I think it is very naive to assume that now that the polls are done nothing can/should be changed.

#2 That this Pokemon would be a mixed sweeper was decided before his stat spread, so Satk had to be on par with Atk. Thus it is slightly lowered. When you start going back on your decisions based on the result of the latest poll it causes a lot of problems. Expecially when you're making decisions in a big group like we were, needing a poll for everything major t be fairly decided. Our decisions are supposed to be made based on the past polls, not changed because of future ones.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in that I think it being a mixed attacker. I fully support it being a mixed attacker. I don't think any Pokemon should EVER be designed to specifically sweep a team. Pokemon can be designed with the possibility of sweeping some teams, but never just to sweep. There is a subtle difference there that is key to understand.

#3 if the server proved that Syclant was broken then we would have fixed it. We've done extencive testing and have yet to prove that it is broken. If and when it is proven then the first thing to go would be Tail Glow. Then perhaps base stats. You can't expect to make something the OU level that we predetermined Syclant would be and put it on par with the UU Scyther tbh.

Please note that I never once stated that I thought Syclant was broken or overpowered. I even stated explicitly that I was talking about thematic balance not competitive balance.

#4 Again, predetermined OU. We needed an ability that would stop SR damage to keep this Pokemon in the OU game. Apart from the fact that this pokemon lives in the tip tops of Snowy Mountains, Pokemon does not have to make sence. It's a fact that we've discussed about a bagilion times around here. Blissey gets Rock Climb. Lickitung doesn't have Lick on one gen. Does any of this detract from the game? No it does not.

I think it is a terrible design flaw, and perhaps the only one real flaw, to try to make a Pokemon for a specific tier rather than just try to make a good Pokemon and let the tier fall into place on it's own. Also, in the moves section I talked about how Pokemon get weird move options sometimes. I also talked about how in more recent generations this as become less of a problem. I don't think we should strive to emulate bad design from the Pokemon games. And yes, there is some bad design in Pokemon games, recent gens being better. Mostly there is just wonderful design though. As I stated, if we want this to be taken seriously it needs to be designed BETTER THAN most Pokemon from the games.

#5 CoupoundEyes. If you were to look at the original comcept art for Syclant courtesy of Cyzir you would notice it has multiple smaller eyes on the top of it's head. Now this much detail may not have been able to be put into the sprite but the Trait poll comes right after the Art poll, so there could have been no way of knowing this. Again, Pokemon does not have to make sence.

I did look at the original art, I did not, however, realize those were eyes. Pokemon does have to make sense, just not real world sense. Thank you for clearing that up, I find the Compound Eyes ability more suitable for Syclant now. Still, it is my nature to question if there are better choices. It's a good choice, but maybe not the best choice. :)

#6 Again, Pokemon are allowed to have moves of the type they are weak to. This Pokemon does not benefit (ingame) from another Ice Type move. Fire Fang ads flavour and makes it interesting, while having no impact whatsoever on it's battling capabilities.

I find the opposite is true, but it is a rather arbitrary point. I agree Pokemon can have access to moves they are weak to, but each move should be assessed on a case by case basis. I personally don't find Fire Fang to be any benefit to this Pokemon's flavor.

#7 We did nemerous polls for what moves to exclude from it's movepool. Were you there for any of them? No?, kthanxbai. Any of those moves could be argued for. Betterfree gets Roost. This Pokemon lives in the Mountains and that is why it can use Stone Edge. There are valid arguments for all of those moves when you know the whole story, which you obviously do not.

So because I wasn't there for them I can't try to HELP MAKE AN AWESEOME POKEMON now? I really posted with the most sincere interest of making this Pokemon the best it can be. I apologize for trying to help. I hope other people find my post useful and that I wasn't just wasting my time... And I do know the whole story, how is so obvious that I do not? I didn't list Stone Edge as one of the NO WAY moves, just one of the moves I felt hesitant about.

So if you think you can do a better job then we urge you to participate in the current Create a Pokemon. But as it is you're attempting to change decisions that were set in stone a long time ago by a huge group of people, all of which seem somewhat attached to Syclant. And in a post that many will interpret as an attack on either Syclant, their decisions, or the decision making process itself, and that's not going to go down well.

I stated explicitly I can't do a better job and how I really think the way this has been implemented so far was a great idea. I'm trying to make the best Pokemon possible. I in no way want to change it's flavor, in fact I want to enhance it further. What are you trying to do? I stated multiple times explicitly that I am not trying to help Syclant because I think it's awesome. I'm sorry you took it so personally, but it was stated multiple times as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, not a complaint.

EDIT: Oh yeah like Time Mage said this Pokemon may turn out not to even be OU, but BL. We'll have to wait and see. Obviously it's almost impossible to find accurate usage statistics but I know many people who have come to our server as an alternative to the official and are staying despite Syclant, because they do not find it a thread. So please, I urge you to come onto out server and test Syclant out for yourself.

I have. :)


You seem upset by my post and I am sorry for that. I hope this post clarifies some of your concerns.

Thank you for you're reply.
 
Many of those criticisms were mine as well (and some still are, like the cheap 121 Speed), but you have to consider that:

a) It's designed by the community, and everything, from stats to abilities, is polled.

Which is a really cool idea, by the way. :D
I guess I was just hoping we could continue to refine Syclant until it is all happy and shiney. It's great as is, just I thought it could be even betetr. I'm sorry that I wasn't here for the poll it looked fun. :)

b) In practice, Syclant is surprisingly NOT overpowered. And the guy who's telling you this was one very worried about its possible uberness. We'll need more battles, better battlers, and a metagame not so centered around countering Syclant (It's inevitable on Syclant's server) to gauge it corrctly, but so far, nothing is indicating it's too powerful.

From my observations and playtesting I wouldn't necessarily label Syclant as overpowered as well. I should have made that clear in my post. :\ I more feel like the current metagame doesn't need another big offensive threat, we have more than enough.

c) This is firstly designed to be competitive, not to be sent to Nintendo. If, when sent, it is accepted, that's a bonus, but not the main goal. So, if we feel that Bug Pokémon deserve at least one high-BST representative in OU, we should make it.

I guess my post is more about if it is sent to Nintendo. If it is, I feel I have some very valid points to improve it's chances!

d) Check out the second project: I think it's being better, overall. That's actually how I found out about Syclant, from the other mummy Pokemon thread. I'm really looking forward to how that one is going to turn out. :)

Thank you for the response to my longwinded post.
 
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