i came up with it about 4 seconds after iron leaves's name was announced, i just never really had a good opportunity to pull that comedy triggerHow long did it take for you to come up with that joke?
i came up with it about 4 seconds after iron leaves's name was announced, i just never really had a good opportunity to pull that comedy triggerHow long did it take for you to come up with that joke?
Sure.... Whatever you say.i came up with it about 4 seconds after iron leaves's name was announced, i just never really had a good opportunity to pull that comedy trigger
Iron leaves when Lando, Meow, Cinderace, Ogerpon, Rillaboom, Corviknight, and moon comes and destroys all it's hopes and dreamsSure.... Whatever you say.
But speaking of iron leaves is there any use for it in OU? Like, it might be good...
Yeah, I said it aloud and even I don't believe myself.
The mon can be kinda shiest on E-terrain. With Electric Seed + Quark Drive, you get +1 Speed and Defense, giving it more opportunities to setup SD and maybe sweep. It gets good oppurtunties on some mons like some variants of Ogerpon-Wellspring, Great Tusk, etc. The issue though is that you are too reliant on Pincurchin + Terrain + Tera, and opposing Teras destroy the mon. Also, unlike something else like Hawlucha, Iron Leaves is reliant on the terrain being set up at all times. If the terrain ends, its completely exposed. The biggest issue is that it has big 4MSS + has a bunch of Tera types it wants, which makes it difficult to select the proper moveset difficult. It can sweep some teams, but the oppurtunity cost is a bit high I think for a mostly unreliable sweeper.Sure.... Whatever you say.
But speaking of iron leaves is there any use for it in OU? Like, it might be good...
Yeah, I said it aloud and even I don't believe myself.
On a more serious note, I'm genuinely struggling to find a niche. It could fit a niche on HO teams as a way to force progress on dondozo/ alo with sd, but this calc, 252 Atk Iron Leaves Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 246-290 (46 - 54.3%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO, means it still can't do it reliably. especially with the burn chance. Maybe banded right?!?1 Nope. It stabs suck offensively and get walled easily unless your a god and predict correctly with secret sword on the incoming kambit. Only other team style that could work would be e terrain, you could get the speed boost while holding something like life orb for power. Sounds great in theory actually but it's typing and other faster booster mons are still a big issueSure.... Whatever you say.
But speaking of iron leaves is there any use for it in OU? Like, it might be good...
Yeah, I said it aloud and even I don't believe myself.
Yeah there's pretty much no reason to use it in OU when there's a multitude of really good offensive Grasses and fast(er) booster sweepers you could use instead.On a more serious note, I'm genuinely struggling to find a niche. It could fit a niche on HO teams as a way to force progress on dondozo/ alo with sd, but this calc, 252 Atk Iron Leaves Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 246-290 (46 - 54.3%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO, means it still can't do it reliably. especially with the burn chance. Maybe banded right?!?1 Nope. It stabs suck offensively and get walled easily unless your a god and predict correctly with secret sword on the incoming kambit. Only other team style that could work would be e terrain, you could get the speed boost while holding something like life orb for power. Sounds great in theory actually but it's typing and other faster booster mons are still a big issue
hey man for next time it's better to avoid double posting, you can just edit your first post :)And how good are spidos with aqua berry first impression, silk trap spikes and sticky web in bazares/gholdengo teams?
The biggest issue I think with Iron Leaves is more than any of the "Legendary" Paradoxes, it loses WAY too much from not having reliable Terrain to play with. Besides subbing for BE as the item slot, its Signature move only benefits from Terrain, and lacks Synergy with those to particularly encourage it (Psychic being a much worse typing than WW's Water while having two weathers to play with). It also just doesn't really have a distinct role: it's on the slow side for a Set-up Sweeper alongside mediocre Coverage, while lacking utility options to use its not-too-shabby Bulk either. Iron Crown works as a Bulky Offensive Pivot with Tachyon Cutter threatening stuff that interferes or tries to use Substitute to exploit it, while Boulder at least has a speed Glass-Cannon idea with Mighty Cleave having a notable niche (Protect breaking on stuff like Gliscor or defensive Scouts is useful even besides Rock Accuracy Memes).Sure.... Whatever you say.
But speaking of iron leaves is there any use for it in OU? Like, it might be good...
Yeah, I said it aloud and even I don't believe myself.
This is the biggest issue it has honestly. It actually can be pretty threatening when supported consistently by terrain, and SD+stabs+wildcharge is pretty wide reaching in terms of coverage (the latter boosted by Terrain). It's a shame that it's not an option because it has some cool on paper traits that just aren't easy to realize in practice because the tools it needs aren't there. (Though I remember fucking around with a Sub+3 Attacks leftovers set when it first released alongside WW and that was fun if not amazing).The biggest issue I think with Iron Leaves is more than any of the "Legendary" Paradoxes, it loses WAY too much from not having reliable Terrain to play with.
You can still swap terrains back and forth. I used Rillaboom to fix the no priority issue on my Psychic Terrain teams. It's much better than Arboliva, which saddens me a little since I really love Arboliva's design.Way back before the first dlc, I tried out a funky double terrain team with Eject Button Aboliva and Indeedee for the sole purpose of playing with Iron Leaves.
I still can't believe in that jumbled mess of a team, Leaves was the one who truly under preformed. It was fun swapping terrains back and forth, not even remotely doable now, but a blast. YoBut damn, Leaves! No matter what the STAB, no matter the terrain, it did nothing. It's typing makes it unable to power up, and then you'll have to Tera, all for lackluster results.
Please, don't give up on Arbiva! I'm not saying it has OU viability, but it's at least good enough to have some fun with!You can still swap terrains back and forth. I used Rillaboom to fix the no priority issue on my Psychic Terrain teams. It's much better than Arboliva, which saddens me a little since I really love Arboliva's design.
So you are saying Arboliva is an S+ tier threat to the OU meta game?Please, don't give up on Arbiva! I'm not saying it has OU viability, but it's at least good enough to have some fun with!
Strength Sap + Leech Seed + Tera flexibility + wide move pool and the stats to use it. Then it has two abilities that are very usable, and it can put in work.
Im going to address thisView attachment 631017
Moon is a hot topic currently and I want to throw my hat in the ringer.
I’ve already made a post about it here months ago but most of what I said is still relevant to my current thoughts.
Roaring Moon isn’t an issue imo. It’s relatively one-dimensional about what it sets out to do. There’s DD 3atks and DD Taunt, along with the occasional CB Moon Sun. Exotic posted a really cool Moon spread that aims to hit harder and tank more hits, but it seems to have its own issues such as needing Webs and being outpaced by max Speed Lando, Kyurem, and Wogre. Still, kudos to Exotic for his innovations.
Without Volc, Moon has less setup opportunities, with most of the tier threatening to kill or cripple. Even its best setup opportunities like Glowking or Ghold can threaten with status.
While Moon has few hard checks, it can be handled with different team compositions like Lando + Raging Bolt, Corv + Weav, Gliscor + Gambit, Ting-Lu + Tinkaton, etc. Unlike with Volc, you only had to guess two sets and they reveal themselves quickly.
Just to list the Moon counterplay for a sec.
View attachment 631033Lando always lives a DD-boosted hit. It chips Moon with U-Turn and Helmet to put it in range of priority like Sucker, Clap, E-Speed, etc. Lando also can tech Rock Tomb/Stone Edge to check it on its own.
View attachment 631020Gliscor gets off a Toxic vs non-Taunt variants. Like Lando, it can U-Turn into something like Weavile.
View attachment 631022R-Bolt can Tera Fairy into an incoming EQ. It checks Taunt DD very nicely. It also punishes Tera Flying with Thunderclap. Even Adamant Knock doesn’t scratch this.
+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 250-295 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
View attachment 631023Zama can Tera Steel and Roar the Roaring Moon out. Defensive Tera is not usually an argument, but with something that only fits on HO, I think its fair. Specially since it doesn’t hinder Zama much. Mirror Herb Zama also completely destroys this.
View attachment 631024Mola can fish for burns or pivot into R-Bolt, Weavile, Lando, Dnite, or Gambit. Not actually that reliable.
View attachment 631025One player used Dtail Dnite as a Moon check and it worked well. Even outside that, Dnite 2HKOs with Ice Spinner + E-Speed, or two Tera Normal E-Speeds. Depending on the matchup, trading Multiscale away to handle Moon should be fine. Just be mindful about the rare Tera Ghost.
View attachment 631026PhysD Garg can trade with Moon or 1v1 with Tera Fairy. Pre-Tera Garg also lives a +1 EQ after rocks.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Garganacl: 282-334 (69.8 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
It also does well into DD Taunt.
View attachment 631027Ting-Lu can Whirlwind non-Taunt variants out or chip it in range of priority with Ruination.
View attachment 631028Weavile doesn’t eat a +1 hit, but it can rkill it after Moon gets chipped into range which isn’t hard to do in a game-to-game basis.
View attachment 631029Perhaps the closest to being a hard check. Living a hit at full and either threatening to cripple with T-Wave or Sticky Barb.
View attachment 631030Corv can live a hit and chip with RH + U-Turn for its teammates.
View attachment 631031Mid mon. Skarm beats non-Taunt variants.
View attachment 631032It doesn’t live a +1 Knock, nor does it like to switch in, but it can rkill with Bullet Punch. CB Tera Steel BP also outright kills this after a bit of chip.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Tera Steel Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 286-338 (81.4 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
View attachment 631034View attachment 631035Ditch the old Zapdos spread. Go full-out with physical bulk since you avoid a 2HKO from Tusk Ice Spinner anyways and it has far more benefits like avoiding an OHKO from +2 Tera Dark Val and more importantly, living a +1 Knock from Moon.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 261-307 (67.9 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Though you lose Boots, Zapdos can trade with Moon to get off a T-Wave or lucky Static proc. For Taunt Moon you can always run Discharge which can still land consistent paralysis.
Moltres is the same except burns are much more damaging to Moon.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Moltres: 285-336 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
View attachment 631038Vs non-Taunt variants, G-Weez does well into it if you opt to run Levitate. It eats any +1 hit and threatens with Wisp.
View attachment 631039Tankchomp is pretty unexplored in the meta. RH + Rough Skin punishes physical attackers or U-Turn spam all while providing Spikes and a phazer to the team. Basically a faster more physically-oriented Ting-Lu with a free Helmet. Chomp also outright checks Moon, always tanking a +1 hit and Dtailing it out.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Garchomp: 282-333 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
I am actually curious about Adamant Moon though. What does it OHKO or 2HKO that Jolly doesn’t?
would you say you're an… arbeliever?Please, don't give up on Arbiva! I'm not saying it has OU viability, but it's at least good enough to have some fun with!
Strength Sap + Leech Seed + Tera flexibility + wide move pool and the stats to use it. Then it has two abilities that are very usable, and it can put in work.
seems you're putting quite a lot of effort into tanking special hits. one might even say you're… investedI've grown wary of special attackers. No more.
seems you're putting quite a lot of effort into tanking special hits. one might even say you're… invested