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Format Discussion Metronome Battle
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
What's the point of that? All you are doing is turning a battle that takes at worst 20 turns to a battle that could take up to 120 (Struggle).
I find that fun and I think that there are others who would as well like my friend vodkacrazymanvc
How is making battle times longer in a format based almost entirely on luck fun?
Furthermore, you need a better argument than just saying it is "fun". There has to be something unique that separates it from normal Metronome Battles for it to become an actual ladder.
decided to make a really generic mirror herb + pickup team cause i got bored
(note about the 2nd pecharunt, it has 0 speed evs and ivs just to die last with perish song when it can, since its a problem i ran into quite a bit)
yeah not much to say, pecharunt has good typing for immunities to normal+fighting moves and getting poisoned. also a replay (before i changed the evs and ivs of one of them) of it cause why not:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2142236997
edit: this thing goes kinda crazy at times... but one thing to note is that when a weakness policy from an opponent is used, you're probably gonna pick up their weakness policy instead of getting back a mirror herb. which can work in your favor maybe, but it usually doesn't
peach (Pecharunt) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Pickup
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
lemon (Pecharunt) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Pickup
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
Ability: Pickup
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
lemon (Pecharunt) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Pickup
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
yeah not much to say, pecharunt has good typing for immunities to normal+fighting moves and getting poisoned. also a replay (before i changed the evs and ivs of one of them) of it cause why not:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2142236997
edit: this thing goes kinda crazy at times... but one thing to note is that when a weakness policy from an opponent is used, you're probably gonna pick up their weakness policy instead of getting back a mirror herb. which can work in your favor maybe, but it usually doesn't
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This is already a small community and the ladder is dead a lot as it is. I think dividing it even further with a 2v2 and 6v6 ladder is going to exacerbate those problems.
If you’re just looking for one you can easily pull up for custom games then yeah I agree that could be good. But you can play that format in hackmons as a work around for now.
Looks really cool
Happy Bidoof Day 2024! July is an interesting month for Metronome Battles because it marks the halfway point of the year and the start of the northern summer, a time that can be used for more work or play, and also marks the 4th anniversary of these usage stat posts from humble beginnings. While there hasn't been much official Pokemon news, I immediately noticed a surprise meta shift when opening the usage stats for June.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-06/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-06/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count has risen back up to 22114, making a recovery from last month's fall but generally still lower than usual.
June 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Pecharunt (#5)
#2: Mega Venusaur (#1)
#3: Mega Heracross (#2)
#4: Ting-Lu (#3)
#5: Blissey (#6)
#6: Guzzlord (#4)
#7: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#8: Mega Sableye (#9)
#9: Dusclops (#11)
#10: Mega Gengar (#8)
Immediately we can all see that after months of Pecharunt being around the top 5 and peaking at #3 behind the big two megas, it has forced itself into the #1 position for the first time. This may be more because of stagnation in the meta or also because a few teams of Pecharunt have been posted around the thread, but either way Venusaur and Heracross's raw usage has fallen along with the total battles to the 6000s, while Pecharunt's usage of ~4000 has been fairly consistent even when the battle count was higher and is still enough to land it in 3rd highest raw usage. Speaking of which, Heracross actually beats Venusaur's raw usage as well, and the moveset file shows this difference even more with 6917 to 7567, which I think is due to it counting mons that appear twice more properly than the main stats file so I might try to refer to those from now on. Otherwise most of the changes are just a result of shuffling down and general variance in the lower places.
Some dark horses of the month include Type: Null making it up relatively high to #11 with 553 (moveset) uses though it's had better showings, and Deoxys-Defense making possibly its best showing yet that I can think of at #16/1139 uses. Drifblim is the first other nonstandard name I see at #29/390, and I don't think it's had any kind of similar showing before. (I searched the thread for mentions, and it was also in #29 in May 2021's stats as well as having pretty high uses/viability ceiling in January 2022). At the least it puts it above Dragonite and Mega Slowbro, who's fallen quite a bit since #10 last time, though with about the same raw usage as back then.
Getting into the moveset file, we can see that Pecharunt seems to be primarily succeeding with Toxic Chain, though Pickup and Magic Bounce follow behind and combine for about as much usage. Mirror Herb is the key item regardless of set though, but Covert Cloak and Clear Amulet still have 10% weighted usages as well. Mega Venusaur's stats have reversed course with Flower Veil having a safe lead again and Mirror Herb barely rising over Weakness Policy while Choice Specs is left behind, and Heracross is about the same way with Defiant dropping off to a point where even Scrappy is above it. Ting-Lu is back to having Toxic Chain lead with Magic Bounce/Simple/Good as Gold all hanging around the 10% mark, while Mirror Herb/Covert Cloak/Weakness Policy are all spread around the same usage rates in the 20s. As for the dark horses, Type: Null represents the return of Friend Guard bonkstall, I just noticed Abomasnow has Defiant in the lead while scrolling through, Deoxys-Defense is more of a Toxic Chain staller, and Drifblim mainly runs Good as Gold/Magic Bounce about evenly with Covert Cloak and a Pecharunt partner.
Over into the viability ceilings (highest GXE of a player that used the pokemon), max out at 80 once again but with a completely different makeup of Heracross/Blissey/Aurumoth (Pickup/Mirror Herb), followed by Dusclops (bonkstall Friend Guard with Type: Null) and Dragapult (Magic Bounce/Good as Gold/Toxic Chain, Mirror Herb/Weakness Policy/Choice Band/Normalium Z) at 79, Venusaur and Ting-Lu sharing a place but fallen to 78 since last time, and tying everything together with 11 mons at 77 with Sableye (Symbiosis in a distant 2nd for some reason), Mega Gengar (Magic Bounce/Competitive leading back), Type: Null, and Necturna (Dauntless Shield in 2nd behind Flower Veil over Thick Fat). Overall I would say this feels a lot more standard than the last month in terms of the popular moveset options, but we did start with Pecharunt defining the meta, so perhaps it is a tradeoff of recent developments. Thanks for your reading.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-06/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-06/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count has risen back up to 22114, making a recovery from last month's fall but generally still lower than usual.
June 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Pecharunt (#5)
#2: Mega Venusaur (#1)
#3: Mega Heracross (#2)
#4: Ting-Lu (#3)
#5: Blissey (#6)
#6: Guzzlord (#4)
#7: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#8: Mega Sableye (#9)
#9: Dusclops (#11)
#10: Mega Gengar (#8)
Immediately we can all see that after months of Pecharunt being around the top 5 and peaking at #3 behind the big two megas, it has forced itself into the #1 position for the first time. This may be more because of stagnation in the meta or also because a few teams of Pecharunt have been posted around the thread, but either way Venusaur and Heracross's raw usage has fallen along with the total battles to the 6000s, while Pecharunt's usage of ~4000 has been fairly consistent even when the battle count was higher and is still enough to land it in 3rd highest raw usage. Speaking of which, Heracross actually beats Venusaur's raw usage as well, and the moveset file shows this difference even more with 6917 to 7567, which I think is due to it counting mons that appear twice more properly than the main stats file so I might try to refer to those from now on. Otherwise most of the changes are just a result of shuffling down and general variance in the lower places.
Some dark horses of the month include Type: Null making it up relatively high to #11 with 553 (moveset) uses though it's had better showings, and Deoxys-Defense making possibly its best showing yet that I can think of at #16/1139 uses. Drifblim is the first other nonstandard name I see at #29/390, and I don't think it's had any kind of similar showing before. (I searched the thread for mentions, and it was also in #29 in May 2021's stats as well as having pretty high uses/viability ceiling in January 2022). At the least it puts it above Dragonite and Mega Slowbro, who's fallen quite a bit since #10 last time, though with about the same raw usage as back then.
Getting into the moveset file, we can see that Pecharunt seems to be primarily succeeding with Toxic Chain, though Pickup and Magic Bounce follow behind and combine for about as much usage. Mirror Herb is the key item regardless of set though, but Covert Cloak and Clear Amulet still have 10% weighted usages as well. Mega Venusaur's stats have reversed course with Flower Veil having a safe lead again and Mirror Herb barely rising over Weakness Policy while Choice Specs is left behind, and Heracross is about the same way with Defiant dropping off to a point where even Scrappy is above it. Ting-Lu is back to having Toxic Chain lead with Magic Bounce/Simple/Good as Gold all hanging around the 10% mark, while Mirror Herb/Covert Cloak/Weakness Policy are all spread around the same usage rates in the 20s. As for the dark horses, Type: Null represents the return of Friend Guard bonkstall, I just noticed Abomasnow has Defiant in the lead while scrolling through, Deoxys-Defense is more of a Toxic Chain staller, and Drifblim mainly runs Good as Gold/Magic Bounce about evenly with Covert Cloak and a Pecharunt partner.
Over into the viability ceilings (highest GXE of a player that used the pokemon), max out at 80 once again but with a completely different makeup of Heracross/Blissey/Aurumoth (Pickup/Mirror Herb), followed by Dusclops (bonkstall Friend Guard with Type: Null) and Dragapult (Magic Bounce/Good as Gold/Toxic Chain, Mirror Herb/Weakness Policy/Choice Band/Normalium Z) at 79, Venusaur and Ting-Lu sharing a place but fallen to 78 since last time, and tying everything together with 11 mons at 77 with Sableye (Symbiosis in a distant 2nd for some reason), Mega Gengar (Magic Bounce/Competitive leading back), Type: Null, and Necturna (Dauntless Shield in 2nd behind Flower Veil over Thick Fat). Overall I would say this feels a lot more standard than the last month in terms of the popular moveset options, but we did start with Pecharunt defining the meta, so perhaps it is a tradeoff of recent developments. Thanks for your reading.
Toxic Chain should be looked at. It absolutely shreds bulky offense teams that don't use Flower Veil, Pastel Veil, or double Magic Guard.
It is different from Poison Touch because it cannot be outhealed by anything except for Rest, Jungle Healing, and Lunar Blessing.
It is different from Poison Touch because it cannot be outhealed by anything except for Rest, Jungle Healing, and Lunar Blessing.
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Can we hold a tiering survey on a Google Form? The last time a survey (kind of unofficial, too) was held was nearly a year ago.
I honestly think we should ban something (probably toxic chain or Pecharunt) just because of this meta being incredibly stale. There are 4 mons that are objectively better than every other mon being Mega Venusaur, Mega Heracross, Ting-Lu, and Pecharunt and by not using one of these, you’re putting yourself at a severe disadvantage. Obviously this kind of issue is gonna exist in any meta where you can’t customize your moves but I feel like it’s extra bad right now as there are only a few viable abilities being toxic chain, magic bounce/good as gold, and flower veil. This makes team building incredibly dull. With pecharunt has amazing stats and the actual best typing possibly in metronome battles and Ting-Lu currently having the best stat spread I’m the meta, there isn’t a reason to use most other mons.
I love metronome battles but I don’t think the top threats should be the only ones viable. Although I don’t think this meta has anything extremely broken, I think we need a ban just to make other mons or abilities viable.
I love metronome battles but I don’t think the top threats should be the only ones viable. Although I don’t think this meta has anything extremely broken, I think we need a ban just to make other mons or abilities viable.
honestly, i would be happy with just a toxic chain ban, cause it's annoying having to force every team to answer it (by using covert cloak, poison types, pastel veil, etc.) it makes teambuilding feel a lot more restrictive on its own
Been running with blacephalon, and honestly kind of love it. The two outspeed basically the whole meta, and I've been expirimenting with things like specs, magic bounce, normalium-Z. Right now I'm using mirror herb + pickup, and I'm wondering if anyone has some suggestions
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Lily_Abnormality
I use it a lot myself. It’s got a good mixed attack option and Ghost Fire is a pretty good typing. it’s a real fragile mon though, as in you can’t be disappointed if it dies Turn 2. I think it’s best for HO and just having as much power as soon as possible is the best for it. Pick up Herb sometimes doesn’t get going until Turn 5 or later, and so I think Choice or another boosting item is best for it.
This is my best team with it. It just tries to get off as most power as possible as soon as possible. But a more bulky offense strat with Hera or a more balanced strat with Venu or Pech is better imo.
I use it a lot myself. It’s got a good mixed attack option and Ghost Fire is a pretty good typing. it’s a real fragile mon though, as in you can’t be disappointed if it dies Turn 2. I think it’s best for HO and just having as much power as soon as possible is the best for it. Pick up Herb sometimes doesn’t get going until Turn 5 or later, and so I think Choice or another boosting item is best for it.
This is my best team with it. It just tries to get off as most power as possible as soon as possible. But a more bulky offense strat with Hera or a more balanced strat with Venu or Pech is better imo.
Thank you, I really appreciate this
Yeah you mention Heracross right there and there's no reason to not use it over deoxys; it can still terastelize and actually has enough bulk to not die to the first Tackle that comes its way
Happy August! Entering a new era after almost a year since its release, Toxic Chain was officially banned on July 20th, so July's usage stats are more of an in-between until we see the full ramifications of this ban. I think overall things will look more like they did pre-DLC1, but I'm interested to see if there will be any resurgence in Poison Touch in the aftermath, or if another apex combo like Pickup Herb will just fill in the gaps until people feel more comfortable trying to counter those with the lack of needing to block Toxic Chain.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-07/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-07/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count dips back to 20769, still hanging around the 20k mark and not quite back to 30k.
July 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (#2)
#2: Pecharunt (#1)
#3: Ting-Lu (#4)
#4: Mega Heracross (#3)
#5: Mega Ampharos (#7)
#6: Blissey (#5)
#7: Mega Gengar (#10)
#8: Necturna (#14)
#9: Mega Sableye (#8)
#10: Guzzlord (#6)
Venusaur has already made it back on top for the gold, though Pecharunt is still managing a medal-level placement. In terms of raw usage, Venusaur has definitely recovered from last month making it up to 8000, while Ting-Lu also gained, Heracross fell slightly, and Pecharunt actually stayed around the 4000s. Toxic Chain levels on Venusaur and Ting-Lu are actually about the same as last month if not even higher, but Pickup has barely surpassed Toxic Chain on Pecharunt already, 40 vs. 39%. Guzzlord is hanging in 10th even with <1000 uses, while dark horses of the month include Pokestar UFO at 14th with 398 uses, Iron Hands at #18 with 483 uses, and the wilder pick of Chromera at #22 with 551 uses, who is still pretty high on that Toxic Chain usage.
Looking into the moveset file for viability ceilings (highest GXE achieved out of everyone using that pokemon), we start off strong at 81 with Mega Venusaur medaling twice (WP finally up over Herb and Relaxed/Quiet 0 Speed in the lead now), along with Snorlax's surprise appearance representing Defiant and Pickup strats, with Venusaur as a partner to explain why. Following up in 80 for silver, we have Marowak and Marowak-Alola-Totem doubling up on Defiant/Thick Club to maximize attack. Finally at 79, we give away 5 bronze medals to Mega Heracross, Dusclops and Type: Null (still repping Magic Guard), Mega Slowbro (Ice Scales/Delta Stream/Analytic vying above 10%, and Bright Powder with 44% usage?), and finally Xurkitree with 23% Mycelium Might usage for some reason, along with Toxic Chain/Hadron Engine/Defiant/Super Luck above 10%, and Mental Herb/Metronome/Specs/Scope Lens/Weakness Policy in the same boat, with a 31% Porygon2 partner. I can't really explain this one, but I guess it had to have peaked with Venusaur if none of the other partners even match its ceiling. Thanks for your reading.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-07/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-07/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count dips back to 20769, still hanging around the 20k mark and not quite back to 30k.
July 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (#2)
#2: Pecharunt (#1)
#3: Ting-Lu (#4)
#4: Mega Heracross (#3)
#5: Mega Ampharos (#7)
#6: Blissey (#5)
#7: Mega Gengar (#10)
#8: Necturna (#14)
#9: Mega Sableye (#8)
#10: Guzzlord (#6)
Venusaur has already made it back on top for the gold, though Pecharunt is still managing a medal-level placement. In terms of raw usage, Venusaur has definitely recovered from last month making it up to 8000, while Ting-Lu also gained, Heracross fell slightly, and Pecharunt actually stayed around the 4000s. Toxic Chain levels on Venusaur and Ting-Lu are actually about the same as last month if not even higher, but Pickup has barely surpassed Toxic Chain on Pecharunt already, 40 vs. 39%. Guzzlord is hanging in 10th even with <1000 uses, while dark horses of the month include Pokestar UFO at 14th with 398 uses, Iron Hands at #18 with 483 uses, and the wilder pick of Chromera at #22 with 551 uses, who is still pretty high on that Toxic Chain usage.
Looking into the moveset file for viability ceilings (highest GXE achieved out of everyone using that pokemon), we start off strong at 81 with Mega Venusaur medaling twice (WP finally up over Herb and Relaxed/Quiet 0 Speed in the lead now), along with Snorlax's surprise appearance representing Defiant and Pickup strats, with Venusaur as a partner to explain why. Following up in 80 for silver, we have Marowak and Marowak-Alola-Totem doubling up on Defiant/Thick Club to maximize attack. Finally at 79, we give away 5 bronze medals to Mega Heracross, Dusclops and Type: Null (still repping Magic Guard), Mega Slowbro (Ice Scales/Delta Stream/Analytic vying above 10%, and Bright Powder with 44% usage?), and finally Xurkitree with 23% Mycelium Might usage for some reason, along with Toxic Chain/Hadron Engine/Defiant/Super Luck above 10%, and Mental Herb/Metronome/Specs/Scope Lens/Weakness Policy in the same boat, with a 31% Porygon2 partner. I can't really explain this one, but I guess it had to have peaked with Venusaur if none of the other partners even match its ceiling. Thanks for your reading.
I have worked to improve my standing in the tier, and I do not plan on stopping. But odds are this will be the last time I devote as much energy as I have currently into this tier for a long time.
This tier is horrifyingly overcentralized around mirror herb and toxic chain. Poison typing is fine, but need for a poison immunity that doesn't sacrifice an ability slot is second to none. Mirror herb, with or without pickup, is by far the most prevalent item chosen, far outpacing weakness policy. Weakness policy has more strict limits, while also being negatively impacted by things like tera ghost. Mega Venusaur, Ting Lu, and Pecharunt are by far the most dominant and consistent (Speaking from experience), only Ting Lu struggles to find use on multiple team styles (flower veil is where it sees the most use). I don't know how to balance the tier or make the experience more balanced, but the tier feels like the same experience every game, and that's not just because you face the same 3 people on ladder.
Toxic Chain is banned, and right now I feel like Mega-Venusaur with Flower Veil and Ting-Lu are more centralizing. Being immune to all stat debuffs and many status moves is very difficult to face.
my friend, the toxic chain ban took effect on July 20th!
Is the Ghost type too centralizing in Metronome Battles? Being immune to 21.3% (85/399) of offensive moves or 14.7% (85/577) of all Metronome moves means that roughly every 7 turns, your Pokemon will take no damage. This causes the more niche Normal and Fighting moves to become nearly game-ending (Explosion/Self-Destruct, High Jump/Axe Kick) or useless (Reversal, Endeavor, Horn Drill, Guillotine, Uproar, Bind, Wrap). Curse also becomes a blessing or a loss, depending on the situation. In exchange for these immunities, Ghosts only become weak to offensive Ghost and Dark moves, which only make up 8.78% of offensive moves (35/399). Running Mind's Eye is almost never worth it, so these relative defensive buffs are often unchecked by anything. Furthermore, these weaknesses are somewhat countered by the fact that Ghosts resists offensive Bug and Poison moves, which also make up 8.78% (35/399) of offensive moves. Other than Grass, there is almost no excuse for running a type besides Ghost.
However, Ghosts have their flaws. The main competition to the Ghost type is Grass, which is carried solely by Flower Veil Venusaur-Mega (also kind of centralizing). Being immune to opponent stat drops and non-volatile status is extremely valuable for maintaining offensive pressure and bulk. In addition, most base Ghost types suck with their low bulk or low offensive power, with Pecharunt being the sole exception. Because of this, Ghosts can generally be chipped down more easily than other Pokemon, but that's solved by the fact that those Pokemon usually run Tera Ghost themselves.
What do you think of Ghosts?
However, Ghosts have their flaws. The main competition to the Ghost type is Grass, which is carried solely by Flower Veil Venusaur-Mega (also kind of centralizing). Being immune to opponent stat drops and non-volatile status is extremely valuable for maintaining offensive pressure and bulk. In addition, most base Ghost types suck with their low bulk or low offensive power, with Pecharunt being the sole exception. Because of this, Ghosts can generally be chipped down more easily than other Pokemon, but that's solved by the fact that those Pokemon usually run Tera Ghost themselves.
What do you think of Ghosts?
Another fun way to deal with 'em is aerilate/galvanize. The latter can be part of an hadron engine setup as well, although the limited time is always a bummer.
Aerilate, Galvanize, Refrigerate, and Pixilate are all mostly subpar because it mostly is not worth it to get a 1.2x damage boost on 21.3% of all offensive moves over a 1.5x boost for all physical moves that are not Normal or Fighting (168/339) with Intrepid Sword or a 1.5x boost for all special moves that are not Normal or Fighting (146/339).
In practice you will be stacking STAB and/or tera on your -ate user unless you run two on one team, so it's going to be a 1.8x or a 2.4x multiplier on something from nothing, which is a satisfying stat swing to make an argument for especially when going all in on physical. And the alternative is a notable chance of doing 0 damage, so reducing that is more like a damage boost approaching infinity in the case of fighting a ghost.
Tera Electric Iron Hands Quick Attack vs. Tera Ghost Mew: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Iron Hands Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mew: 146-172 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Iron Hands Leafage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tera Ghost Mew: 61-72 (15 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Intrepid Sword Tera Electric Iron Hands Leafage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tera Ghost Mew: 90-107 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- 16.8% chance to 4HKO