Project Metagame Workshop

[chartung17]

Unnatural​

Metagame Premise: If a Pokemon uses a Nature where their highest non-HP stat is lowered and their smallest non-HP stat is raised, the stat being raised gets Doubled instead.
Example:

Kingambit’s highest non-HP stat is Atk and it’s lowest non-HP stat is Spe.
With 252 Spe EVs and Neutral Nature, Kingambit would have 199 Speed.
With 252 Spe EVs and Jolly, Kingambit would have 218 Speed.
However, with With 252 Spe EVs and Timid, Kingambit would have 398 Speed instead.


Kingdra is a good example to show off what happens with certain stat distributions.
Kingdra’s lowest stat is actually HP, but in this Meta, Speed is the lowest non-HP stat and will be the stat that can be doubled.
Kingdra’s highest stat is tied between Atk, Def, SpA, and SpD. In this case, the highest stat will follow similar rule to Beast Boost/Paradox abilities where it’s prioritized as Atk > Def > SpA > SpD > Spe. In this case, for Kingdra to get x2 Spe, it needs a Timid nature. In cases where the lowest stat ties, it goes in reverse order where Speed is treated the lowest.

Potential Threats and Bans:

Kingdra has a very good stat spread for a Metagame like this. Kingdra won’t miss its Atk stat that much as it has stronger special options anyways and under Rain can have 1,076 Speed (269 * 2 * 2)

Azumarill’s Speed stat being its lowest stat means it can have double Atk with Huge Power and double Speed with a Hasty nature. While Adamant would be stronger, having same Atk and Spe and fully invested Great Tusk Atk is pretty solid.

Great Tusk gets the benefits of both worlds. It can have a regular set with Adamant or Impish or Jolly natures and do just fine, but additionally Great Tusk can run Calm sets to double its SpD up to 410. So Great Tusk can run regular sets, and additionally run a Specially Defensive set that greatly increases your SpD.

Questions:
1. I added the priority list for ties to simplify what happens, but would it be better to let people choose between ties? Like for example instead of just timid Kingdra you could also have Jolly Kingdra doubling the speed stat since SpA is also Kingdra’s highest stat too.
2. In some cases of mid-battle form changes, some Pokemon’s highest anf lowest stats change distribution. For example Eiscue‘s highest stat is Def and lowest stat is Speed, meanwhile Eiscue-noice’s highest stat is Speed and its lowest stat is SpD. Should Hasty still double Speed after changing form, or should the nature only provide a +10% bonus to speed like it normally would?
3. Changing the nature bonus from +10% to +100% sounds most natural (ironically) but feel free to say how much you think it be a higher bonus or a lower bonus.

I don't think letting people choose between ties is a good idea, since it would probably lead to a significantly larger banlist (Mew, Manaphy, etc would be very broken if they could double their attacking stat of choice rather than speed).

Moltres-Galar is probably broken, since it can spam Brave Birds off of 538 attack. Zapdos-Galar also gets 538 special attack, but it only learns 5 special moves (Ancient Power, Hurricane, Tera Blast, Hyper Beam, and Swift), and none of them is an accurate STAB move.

 

[Cuddly]

I don't think letting people choose between ties is a good idea, since it would probably lead to a significantly larger banlist (Mew, Manaphy, etc would be very broken if they could double their attacking stat of choice rather than speed).

Moltres-Galar is probably broken, since it can spam Brave Birds off of 538 attack. Zapdos-Galar also gets 538 special attack, but it only learns 5 special moves (Ancient Power, Hurricane, Tera Blast, Hyper Beam, and Swift), and none of them is an accurate STAB move.

for sure will be banned even without the restriction. Having a speed stat 50 points above Timid is insane with you additionally having 100/100/100 bulk and Tail Glow. similarly is on the tipping point too. It having Nasty Plot sets, Stored Power sets, and Hazard stacking sets where that 598 Spe would help tremendously.
Another Pokemon I have my eyes on is and . Having its lowest stat be Speed and having access to Belly Drum is disastrous and lead to Screens + Belly Drum teams running rampant.

 

[PQRDG]

Unnatural​

Metagame Premise: If a Pokemon uses a Nature where their highest non-HP stat is lowered and their smallest non-HP stat is raised, the stat being raised gets Doubled instead.

1) This feels adjacent to Nature Swap, which is already an OM concept utilizing Natures for stat adjustment. The wording you are going for here feels very specific and niche, and as pointed out would be a problem for Pokemon with even stats across the board. However, that would all be irrelevant because

2) taken from the first post of this thread:

Commonly Rejected Metagame Ideas:

• Huge Power is so cool!: All/Some Pokemon get Huge Power (or a Huge Power variant for another stat using rule X).

 

[Cuddly]

1) This feels adjacent to Nature Swap, which is already an OM concept utilizing Natures for stat adjustment. The wording you are going for here feels very specific and niche, and as pointed out would be a problem for Pokemon with even stats across the board. However, that would all be irrelevant because

The only similarity between Nature Swap and Unnatural is utilizing the Nature mechanic, they otherwise play out very differently. One metagame heavily favors MinMax Pokemon like Hoopa Unbound while the other favors Even spread Pokemon. I also don’t see that many problem Pokemon aside from a few mythicals. It’s pretty uncommon to find Pokemon whose lowest non-HP stat is above Base 90.
Even then, I don’t think something like Careful Nature Darkrai will be that problematic.

2) taken from the first post of this thread:

Fair enough (though technically it’s a x1.818 boost rather than a x2 boost). It’s why I asked if the modifier should be high or lower, or something else that’d buff the lowest stat of a Pokemon?
(Also while yes 350 Cup isn’t Huge Power for every stat, it still is double base stats with X rule)

 

[KaenSoul]

I guess it could be interesting, at least being forced into the lowest stat does make it a lot better than just huge power in a stat.
is like a more explosive Nat swap, and that format kind of died so this may be the twist needed to revive the concept.
I’m not a super fan but with a good banlist it could work as a format.

 

[LemonLime78]

for sure will be banned even without the restriction. Having a speed stat 50 points above Timid is insane with you additionally having 100/100/100 bulk and Tail Glow. similarly is on the tipping point too. It having Nasty Plot sets, Stored Power sets, and Hazard stacking sets where that 598 Spe would help tremendously.
Another Pokemon I have my eyes on is and . Having its lowest stat be Speed and having access to Belly Drum is disastrous and lead to Screens + Belly Drum teams running rampant.

Would like to mention a few more.
Latias: 518 atk and dd. There is moltres-g, but that's why we have sub so we can play everyone's favorite game: sucker mind games!
Persian-Alola: 876 defense. Comedy.

Honestly I just cannot emphasize enough how funny I think Persian-Alola would be. Physical attackers would just not exist because of this mofo. I vote if this becomes and actual meta allow it for one day just to see what happens (I mean obviously don't but I just find this absurdly funny for no reason)

Eta: +1 252+ Atk Tera Fairy Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 216-256 (64.6 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (This was edited to pre-nerf stats lol)

+6 252 Atk Latias Outrage vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 153-181 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO

 

[Cancel cult]

Another Pokemon I have my eyes on is and . Having its lowest stat be Speed and having access to Belly Drum is disastrous and lead to Screens + Belly Drum teams running rampant.

oh, you think that's horrifying?

also, regardless of whether or not it is overpowered, you should definitely ban zamazenta, otherwise countless battles will be determined by whether or not it hits focus blast.

 

[LemonLime78]

On a similar note, mienshao. RegenVest, anyone?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. +2 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 216-254 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Cancel cult]

On a similar note, mienshao. RegenVest, anyone?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. +2 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 216-254 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even worse:
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 127-151 (19.7 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO

 

[Cuddly]

oh, you think that's horrifying?
View attachment 647217
also, regardless of whether or not it is overpowered, you should definitely ban zamazenta, otherwise countless battles will be determined by whether or not it hits focus blast.

Both definitely look like threats for sure, and honestly probably should have mentioned Iron Hands with whole Belly Drum stuff too.
With Zamazenta, it could be play tested. It has massive SpA but needs a Quiet nature and has only few options for special moves. It could also be good with mixed sets to compensate. It'd also be lower of a priority for suspect testing than Latias, who has same Atk as Zama has SpA, but has Dragon Dance and surprisingly good physical moves.
Iron Hands could be carried by Belly Drum, but Timid otherwise makes it hit way worse. Like 252 EVs Timid reaches 341 Atk, which is the same as neutral nature Sandy Shocks's SpA. That isn't bad, but it makes Iron Hands far less scary without Belly Drum.

 

[LemonLime78]

Even worse:
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 127-151 (19.7 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X Collision Course (133.3251953125 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 258-306 (77.2 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X Collision Course (133.3251953125 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 690-812 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Persian superiority.

Ignoring stuff like reliable recovery and special defense and useless stuff like that

Let the funny cat be funny

 

[Cuddly]

I was looking around and seeing some more interesting Pokemon to use in Unnatural

Iron Thorns here would be a Modest nature Pokemon, allowing it to double its SpA, which makes it a big threat. 70 is a pretty high lowest-stat and combined with Quark Drive and its surprisingly great special movepool, Iron Thorns would make a great special wall breaker.
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy/Choice Specs
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch/Stealth Rock/Spikes
- Earth Power
Pretty standard set with BoltBeam coverage and Earth Power, and either Volt Switch or Stealth Rock for utility. After boost from Modest, you hit 478, which is just under Modest Kyurem-White. You then have either Booster Energy or Choice Specs to boost the firepower even more.
Iron Thorns @ Power Herb
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- (any filler move)
This set utilizes the fact that Iron Thorns also has STAB Meteor Beam. Since BoltBeam is already really good coverage, your last moveslot can be really anything. Taunt, Thunder Wave, more coverage moves like Earth Power, Focus Blast, Flamethrower, or Power Gem.


Scream Tail gets a substantial boost to its offenses in this Metagame, having actually slightly less SpA than Iron Thorns, but with a much higher speed stat and Calm Mind.
Scream Tail @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower/Focus Blast
Scream Tail has several options for special moves, like Psychic/Psyshock/Noise, Dazzling Gleam, Focus Blast, classic elemental moves, and even Boomburst. You can mix and match the special moves you want to use, at least having 1 STAB and a way to beat Steel types. Wouldn't recommend using bulkier calm mind with Wish since you're using Rash nature.
Scream Tail @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Encore
This set utilizes Stored Power in conjunction with Grassy Seed and Calm Mind. You can break past any resist with Stored Power after a few Calm Minds + Seed, only worrying about Dark types which you have Dazzling Gleam for. I put Encore as the last move as it can allow Scream Tail to set up easily similar to Iron Valiant.
There are also potential sets likes Choice Specs/Scarf with 3 attacks and Trick or 4 attacks, and you can even utilize Throat Spray sets as well. It's a very diverse Pokemon and a potential powerhouse in the meta.


Arcanine regularly is pretty underwhelming and you'd usually prefer its Hisui counterpart. However I think this metagame can help it massively. Having its lowest stat be SpD compliments Arcanine well with its ability Intimidate too. After that SpD boost, you become tanky on the special side and can weaken physical attacks with Intimidate and Will-o-wisp. For comparison
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 142-168 (21.7 - 25.7%) -- 1.4% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 186-220 (26 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 252 SpD Arcanine: 111-132 (28.9 - 34.3%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO
Arcanine isn't as bulky as Blissey sure, but that is pretty damn impressive since Arcanine would also have resistances, better physical bulk, usable SpA, and can threaten most physical attackers with Will-o-wisp or Scorching Sand.
Arcanine @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp/Scorching Sand
- Flamethrower
- Roar/Extreme Speed
A set like this would be standard defensive set. You have healing and HDBs for longevity, Will-o-wisp and Scorching Sand for burns, Flamethrower as a good STAB option, and either Roar or Extreme Speed. Roar can rack up hazard damage as most players typically switch when they get Intimidated, and it can allow you to remove set up sweepers too. Extreme Speed is Extreme Speed. Even if you need Calm Nature, +2 priority and 80 BP will always be good.


One other Pokemon I'd like to talk about is Minior. Minior is a unique case where it's a form changing Pokemon that changes stats mid-battle. Because of this, Minior can run either Hasty or Sassy nature, and the respective form would get that boost. I don't know if it'd be that good, but it'd be fun. With a Hasty Nature, Minior gets to have "good" bulk while being blazing fast, letting it Shell Smash reliably. Afterwards it can change forms while below half health, still having a massive speed stat but without the Unnatural boost it gets in its Meteor form. Which is fine as you'd Shell Smash anyways to have +2 Speed as well as +2 Atk and SpA.

 

[TeaThymeLine]

Unnatural​

Metagame Premise: If a Pokemon uses a Nature where their highest non-HP stat is lowered and their smallest non-HP stat is raised, the stat being raised gets Doubled instead.
Example:

Kingambit’s highest non-HP stat is Atk and it’s lowest non-HP stat is Spe.
With 252 Spe EVs and Neutral Nature, Kingambit would have 199 Speed.
With 252 Spe EVs and Jolly, Kingambit would have 218 Speed.
However, with With 252 Spe EVs and Timid, Kingambit would have 398 Speed instead.

Wouldn't it be 436 instead ? I ask because I find it strange to get the double of the neutral nature, but I'm probably wrong.

Incidentally, you seem to calculate the stat with EV +IV investment... which highlights another question : does the stat doubles with the nature only or with investment together ? If it's the first case, than Kingambit would have 100 Speed for base and 328 after EV + IV investment (I made the calculations, while considering that the nature still increase the stat by 10%) ; If it's the second one, I think it should be good to precise it.

 

[Cuddly]

Wouldn't it be 436 instead ? I ask because I find it strange to get the double of the neutral nature, but I'm probably wrong.

Incidentally, you seem to calculate the stat with EV +IV investment... which highlights another question : does the stat doubles with the nature only or with investment together ? If it's the first case, than Kingambit would have 100 Speed for base and 328 after EV + IV investment (I made the calculations, while considering that the nature still increase the stat by 10%) ; If it's the second one, I think it should be good to precise it.

The idea is that instead of the boost being +10% it instead is +100%
So if you have 199 in a stat with a neutral nature, a +10% increase would result in 218 (199 * 1.1) for that stat. However here that boost is +100% so you’re have 398 (199 * 2). If you got a x2 bonus on top of the x1.1 bonus, you‘d get a x2.2 bonus, which would be way too much.

 

[IMakeNoSense]

COUNTERARM
Don't be weak to the opposition! Respond by being even stronger!
Metagame premise:
If your opponent has a type that you would otherwise be offensively weak against, your moves instead get an offensive boost against them (and it stacks)!

For each weakness they possess against you, your moves will be boosted by 1.1x. This is independent to whether move you use is super effective or not very effective, this is an added boost.

Example:
Landorus-Therian is Ground/Flying.

Say you're fighting a Cloyster. Both Ice and Water are super effective against Ground, and Ice also for Flying. That means there's 3 weaknesses there, so your moves against a Cloyster will be 1.3x.

Another example:
Avalugg-Hisui is Ice/Rock

If your opponent is a Cobalion, both Steel and Fighting both are strong against both Ice and Rock, so that means your moves will be 1.4x as effective against them. Even though Ice is resisted to Steel, it's whether or not their type is strong against your type, before the resistances even begin.
Anyone up for Trick Room?

OU Based
-Species Clause
-Sleep Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)

Potential threats:
The issue with threats in this metagame is that it's reliant on how many weaknesses they have based on how well they can account for their weakness, since being weak to a type they have while not having to worry about it means they can utilize the damage boost to the fullest. So while faster mons with more weaknesses like glass cannons can have a field day, I'd imagine Pokemon like Corviknight who are immune to one of their weaknesses would appreciate the boost. Though, Corviknight isn't exactly an offensive threat anyway, is it?

With that said, Flying types in general who are weak to Ground, a common OU type, would appreciate the free 1.1x boost they get just by being typically Ground-vulnerable with their other type (if anything I said earlier made sense, that is.)

Yet, in other words, being weak to a type means free power to abuse, so I'll list some mons that I think may be problematic due to their notable weaknesses.

Meowscarada/Weavile (simply by having a lot of weaknesses, they'd probably get boosts frequently)
Cinderace/Gouging Fire (Ground)
Deoxys-Speed/Dragapult (Dark)
Iron Moth (Ground + Can quickly utilize the damage boost by activating Quark Drive under speed)
Glimmora (Ground weakness means it can stay in on common setup leads like Clodsire, Gliscor, Garchomp, Deoxys-Speed, or Samurott-Hisui, all of which has types strong against it, and deal heavy damage after a Sash.)

Potential bans:
Kingambit (Too many boosts with Supreme Overlord)
Gholdengo (Ground + Dark weakness means it getting offensive boosts all the time.) -Debatable-

Questions for the community:
What are your thoughts on Gholdengo in a meta like this? I gave my thoughts about how types with easier ways to fend off their weaknesses will do better in a meta like this, but would Gholdengo prove to be too strong with more frequent boosts?

I'd imagine that STAB moves would be less frequent as no one would want a boosted attack against them if they can help it. Thoughts? Would STAB moves be less frequent?

Do you have any other ideas for the name of the meta?

 

[Cuddly]

COUNTERARM
Don't be weak to the opposition! Respond by being even stronger!
Metagame premise:
If your opponent has a type that you would otherwise be offensively weak against, your moves instead get an offensive boost against them (and it stacks)!

For each weakness they possess against you, your moves will be boosted by 1.1x. This is independent to whether move you use is super effective or not very effective, this is an added boost.

Example:
Landorus-Therian is Ground/Flying.

Say you're fighting a Cloyster. Both Ice and Water are super effective against Ground, and Ice also for Flying. That means there's 3 weaknesses there, so your moves against a Cloyster will be 1.3x.

Another example:
Avalugg-Hisui is Ice/Rock
View attachment 647983
If your opponent is a Cobalion, both Steel and Fighting both are strong against both Ice and Rock, so that means your moves will be 1.4x as effective against them. Even though Ice is resisted to Steel, it's whether or not their type is strong against your type, before the resistances even begin.
Anyone up for Trick Room?

OU Based
-Species Clause
-Sleep Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)

Potential threats:
The issue with threats in this metagame is that it's reliant on how many weaknesses they have based on how well they can account for their weakness, since being weak to a type they have while not having to worry about it means they can utilize the damage boost to the fullest. So while faster mons with more weaknesses like glass cannons can have a field day, I'd imagine Pokemon like Corviknight who are immune to one of their weaknesses would appreciate the boost. Though, Corviknight isn't exactly an offensive threat anyway, is it?

With that said, Flying types in general who are weak to Ground, a common OU type, would appreciate the free 1.1x boost they get just by being typically Ground-vulnerable with their other type (if anything I said earlier made sense, that is.)

Yet, in other words, being weak to a type means free power to abuse, so I'll list some mons that I think may be problematic due to their notable weaknesses.

Meowscarada/Weavile (simply by having a lot of weaknesses, they'd probably get boosts frequently)
Cinderace/Gouging Fire (Ground)
Deoxys-Speed/Dragapult (Dark)
Iron Moth (Ground + Can quickly utilize the damage boost by activating Quark Drive under speed)
Glimmora (Ground weakness means it can stay in on common setup leads like Clodsire, Gliscor, Garchomp, Deoxys-Speed, or Samurott-Hisui, all of which has types strong against it, and deal heavy damage after a Sash.)

Potential bans:
Kingambit (Too many boosts with Supreme Overlord)
Gholdengo (Ground + Dark weakness means it getting offensive boosts all the time.) -Debatable-

Questions for the community:
What are your thoughts on Gholdengo in a meta like this? I gave my thoughts about how types with easier ways to fend off their weaknesses will do better in a meta like this, but would Gholdengo prove to be too strong with more frequent boosts?

I'd imagine that STAB moves would be less frequent as no one would want a boosted attack against them if they can help it. Thoughts? Would STAB moves be less frequent?

Do you have any other ideas for the name of the meta?

The mechanic of the metagame sounds cool, but only a 10% increase for every weakness? That seems a bit skimpy to me. I think it should be +25% if you're weak to 1 type, and +50% if you're weak to both types, x2 and x4 weaknesses having the same boost. It'd make the mechanic more impactful.

 

[IMakeNoSense]

The mechanic of the metagame sounds cool, but only a 10% increase for every weakness? That seems a bit skimpy to me. I think it should be +25% if you're weak to 1 type, and +50% if you're weak to both types, x2 and x4 weaknesses having the same boost. It'd make the mechanic more impactful.

It's still possible, however I didn't want to give glass cannons too much of a boost as its added on top of type calcs. Example: If you're using a Electric/Rock type and your opponent's a Ground/Water type, you get a 1.3x bonus. If you use a Grass Move + Life Orb, that's a 4x effective move with a 1.3x boost from the meta and a 1.3x boost from Life Orb, meaning it comes to a 6.36x multiplier. That's pretty nuts as it is now, IMO.

 

[Cuddly]

It's still possible, however I didn't want to give glass cannons too much of a boost as its added on top of type calcs. Example: If you're using a Electric/Rock type and your opponent's a Ground/Water type, you get a 1.3x bonus. If you use a Grass Move + Life Orb, that's a 4x effective move with a 1.3x boost from the meta and a 1.3x boost from Life Orb, meaning it comes to a 6.36x multiplier. That's pretty nuts as it is now, IMO.

Yeah that’s true. It’s a hard balance to have since +10% boost is barely anything and +40% or +50% is pretty high.
This is similar to an idea I had before about Pokemon with weaknesses getting buffed in some way, like first being having moveslots for each weakness you have (couldn’t be done since it requires importing sets) and other being stat increase for Def/SpD for # of weaknesses + Atk/SpA for # of types that resist your STABs.

With that said, what if instead of basing it on the opponent’s STAB moves, you could increase damage output for every time you’re hit by a super effective move or something like that.

 

[IMakeNoSense]

With that said, what if instead of basing it on the opponent’s STAB moves, you could increase damage output for every time you’re hit by a super effective move or something like that.

It’s not based on their STAB moves, just their type combination. Regardless of the moves they have, if they have a type that would be super effective against one of yours, it factors into a boost that boosts your own moves, regardless of if those moves are super effective or not.

However, if it WERE super effective, the multipliers stack. Below is a scribbled example of the meta:

 

[woodgoldtwo]

It’s not based on their STAB moves, just their type combination. Regardless of the moves they have, if they have a type that would be super effective against one of yours, it factors into a boost that boosts your own moves, regardless of if those moves are super effective or not.

However, if it WERE super effective, the multipliers stack. Below is a scribbled example of the meta:

View attachment 648739View attachment 648740

are the modifiers supposed to be additive? damage modifiers are usually always applied multiplicatively as far as I am aware

 

[TeaThymeLine]

My last suggestion either didn't have enough visibility, appeal, or both, so here is another idea.

MANKY THEOREM
- Hurt me just a bit, eat my kaioken -

​

Premise : all moves with 50 Base Power have Rage Fist effect integrated.

Rules :

For Single Battles (6v6). Each time a Pokémon is hit, its moves will increase in base power by the same amount if they have 50 BP from the start (no more, no less).

Clauses

Endless Battle Clause
Evasion Clause
OHKO Clause
One 50 Only Clause : only one move with 50 BP in the moveslot is allowed
Sleep Clause : you can inflict sleep on one Pokémon only
Species Clause

Bans :

Abilities

Adaptability
Opportunist
Sand Veil
Snow Veil
Speed Boost

Items

Clear Powder
King's Rock

Mechanics

Terastalization

Moves

Baton Pass
Dragon Darts
Fell Stinger
Last Respects
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Tachyon Cutter

Pokémon

Annihilape
Arceus (all forms)
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chi-Yu
Chien-Pao
Darkrai
Dialga (both forms)
Deoxys (all forms)
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-oh
Iron Bundle
Iron Boulder
Iron Valiant
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem (all forms)
Landorus
Lugia
Miraidon
Palafin
Palkia (both forms)
Raging Bolt
Regieleki
Regigigas
Reshiram
Roaring Moon
Shaymin-Sky
Smeargle
Spectrier
Terapagos (all forms)
Ursaluna (both forms)
Urshifu (both forms)
Volcarona
Walking Wake
Zacian (both forms)
Zamazenta
Zekrom

Restricted Bans :

Move + Ability combos

Draining Kiss + Triage
Weather Ball + Chlorophyll/Slush Rush/Swift Swim

Unbans :

Pokémon

Giratina (both forms)
Rayquaza

Watchlist :

Abilities

Sheer Force
Technician

Moves

Clear Smog
Flame Charge
Rapid Spin
Trailblaze

Pokémon

Cinderace
Great Tusk
Greninja
Iron-Crown
Iron-Moth
Iron-Leaves
Iron-Treads
Landorus-Therian
Meowscarada
Sandy Shocks

Strategy :

This metagame will without a doubt favor rough gameplays around the mechanic. Being able to whistand the most attacks will be the decisive factor, because any Pokémon endowed with 50 BP moves have now the potential to sweep ; Moreover, Pokémon can make moves their own STAB thanks to terastalizing, therefore one should expect these types to appear the most during battles : fire, water, electrick, grass, psychic, bug, fairy, poison, rock, normal.

Q&A

Q1 : Does Copycat copy power stack ?
A1 : No, it doesn't. For example, if Copycat is used after Trailblaze at 150 BP, the copied one would have 50 BP.

Q2 : Does Rage Fist have, well... a "double stack" in power ?
A2 : No, the move is unaffected and keeps having a normal stack.

Questions for the community :

Should I add/remove bans ? Should I provide details on how some moves work under this mechanic ?

Playability : on approval

Council : none yet

 

[KaenSoul]

COUNTERARM
Don't be weak to the opposition! Respond by being even stronger!
Metagame premise:
If your opponent has a type that you would otherwise be offensively weak against, your moves instead get an offensive boost against them (and it stacks)!

For each weakness they possess against you, your moves will be boosted by 1.1x. This is independent to whether move you use is super effective or not very effective, this is an added boost.

Example:
Landorus-Therian is Ground/Flying.

Say you're fighting a Cloyster. Both Ice and Water are super effective against Ground, and Ice also for Flying. That means there's 3 weaknesses there, so your moves against a Cloyster will be 1.3x.

Another example:
Avalugg-Hisui is Ice/Rock
View attachment 647983
If your opponent is a Cobalion, both Steel and Fighting both are strong against both Ice and Rock, so that means your moves will be 1.4x as effective against them. Even though Ice is resisted to Steel, it's whether or not their type is strong against your type, before the resistances even begin.
Anyone up for Trick Room?

OU Based
-Species Clause
-Sleep Clause
-Evasion Items Clause
-Evasion Moves Clause
-OHKO Clause
-Moody Clause
-Endless Battle Clause
-Tera Clause (no Terastelizing)

Potential threats:
The issue with threats in this metagame is that it's reliant on how many weaknesses they have based on how well they can account for their weakness, since being weak to a type they have while not having to worry about it means they can utilize the damage boost to the fullest. So while faster mons with more weaknesses like glass cannons can have a field day, I'd imagine Pokemon like Corviknight who are immune to one of their weaknesses would appreciate the boost. Though, Corviknight isn't exactly an offensive threat anyway, is it?

With that said, Flying types in general who are weak to Ground, a common OU type, would appreciate the free 1.1x boost they get just by being typically Ground-vulnerable with their other type (if anything I said earlier made sense, that is.)

Yet, in other words, being weak to a type means free power to abuse, so I'll list some mons that I think may be problematic due to their notable weaknesses.

Meowscarada/Weavile (simply by having a lot of weaknesses, they'd probably get boosts frequently)
Cinderace/Gouging Fire (Ground)
Deoxys-Speed/Dragapult (Dark)
Iron Moth (Ground + Can quickly utilize the damage boost by activating Quark Drive under speed)
Glimmora (Ground weakness means it can stay in on common setup leads like Clodsire, Gliscor, Garchomp, Deoxys-Speed, or Samurott-Hisui, all of which has types strong against it, and deal heavy damage after a Sash.)

Potential bans:
Kingambit (Too many boosts with Supreme Overlord)
Gholdengo (Ground + Dark weakness means it getting offensive boosts all the time.) -Debatable-

Questions for the community:
What are your thoughts on Gholdengo in a meta like this? I gave my thoughts about how types with easier ways to fend off their weaknesses will do better in a meta like this, but would Gholdengo prove to be too strong with more frequent boosts?

I'd imagine that STAB moves would be less frequent as no one would want a boosted attack against them if they can help it. Thoughts? Would STAB moves be less frequent?

Do you have any other ideas for the name of the meta?

My last suggestion either didn't have enough visibility, appeal, or both, so here is another idea.

MANKY THEOREM
- Hurt me just a bit, eat my kaioken -

​

Premise : all moves with 50 Base Power have Rage Fist effect integrated.

Rules :

For Single Battles (6v6). Each time a Pokémon is hit, its moves will increase in base power by the same amount if they have 50 BP from the start (no more, no less).

Clauses

Endless Battle Clause
Evasion Clause
OHKO Clause
One 50 Only Clause : only one move with 50 BP in the moveslot is allowed
Sleep Clause : you can inflict sleep on one Pokémon only
Species Clause

Bans :

Abilities

Adaptability
Opportunist
Sand Veil
Snow Veil
Speed Boost

Items

Clear Powder
King's Rock

Moves

Conversion
Dragon Darts
Last Respects
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Tachyon Cutter

Pokémon

Annihilape
Arceus (all forms)
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chi-Yu
Chien-Pao
Darkrai
Dialga (both forms)
Deoxys (all forms)
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Glastrier
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-oh
Iron Bundle
Iron Boulder
Iron Valiant
Kyogre
Lugia
Landorus (both forms)
Palafin
Palkia (both forms)
Raging Bolt
Regieleki
Regigigas
Reshiram
Roaring Moon
Shaymin-Sky
Smeargle
Spectrier
Terapagos (all forms)
Ursaluna (both forms)
Urshifu (both forms)
Volcarona
Walking Wake
Zacian (both forms)
Zamazenta
Zekrom

Restricted Bans :

Move + Ability combos

Draining Kiss + Triage
Weather Ball + Chlorophyll/Slush Rush/Swift Swim

Unbans :

Pokémon

Giratina (both forms)
Rayquaza

Watchlist :

Abilities

Sheer Force
Technician

Moves

Clear Smog

Pokémon

Cinderace
Greninja
Meowscarada
Sandy Shocks

Strategy :

This metagame will without a doubt favor rough gameplays around the mechanic. Being able to whistand the most attacks will be the decisive factor, because any Pokémon endowed with 50 BP moves have now the potential to sweep ; Moreover, Pokémon can make moves their own STAB thanks to terastalizing, therefore one should expect these types to appear the most during battles : fire, water, electrick, grass, psychic, bug, fairy, poison, rock, normal.

Q&A

Q1 : Does Copycat copy power stack ?
A1 : No, it doesn't. For example, if Copycat is used after Trailblaze at 150 BP, the copied one would have 50 BP.

Q2 : Does Rage Fist have, well... a "double stack" in power ?
A2 : No, the move is unaffected and keeps having a normal stack.

Questions for the community :

Should I add/remove bans ? Should I provide details on how some moves work under this mechanic ?

Playability : on approval

Council : none yet

I feel like formats that are just damage modifiers are just too small of a change to be worth exploring, they just make for basic HO teams and can't really reach a balancing point because there is always a next best thing that can just deal insane amounts of damage like what just got banned.

 

[chartung17]

My last suggestion either didn't have enough visibility, appeal, or both, so here is another idea.

MANKY THEOREM
- Hurt me just a bit, eat my kaioken -

​

Premise : all moves with 50 Base Power have Rage Fist effect integrated.

Rules :

For Single Battles (6v6). Each time a Pokémon is hit, its moves will increase in base power by the same amount if they have 50 BP from the start (no more, no less).

Clauses

Endless Battle Clause
Evasion Clause
OHKO Clause
One 50 Only Clause : only one move with 50 BP in the moveslot is allowed
Sleep Clause : you can inflict sleep on one Pokémon only
Species Clause

Bans :

Abilities

Adaptability
Opportunist
Sand Veil
Snow Veil
Speed Boost

Items

Clear Powder
King's Rock

Moves

Conversion
Dragon Darts
Last Respects
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Tachyon Cutter

Pokémon

Annihilape
Arceus (all forms)
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chi-Yu
Chien-Pao
Darkrai
Dialga (both forms)
Deoxys (all forms)
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Glastrier
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-oh
Iron Bundle
Iron Boulder
Iron Valiant
Kyogre
Lugia
Landorus (both forms)
Palafin
Palkia (both forms)
Raging Bolt
Regieleki
Regigigas
Reshiram
Roaring Moon
Shaymin-Sky
Smeargle
Spectrier
Terapagos (all forms)
Ursaluna (both forms)
Urshifu (both forms)
Volcarona
Walking Wake
Zacian (both forms)
Zamazenta
Zekrom

Restricted Bans :

Move + Ability combos

Draining Kiss + Triage
Weather Ball + Chlorophyll/Slush Rush/Swift Swim

Unbans :

Pokémon

Giratina (both forms)
Rayquaza

Watchlist :

Abilities

Sheer Force
Technician

Moves

Clear Smog

Pokémon

Cinderace
Greninja
Meowscarada
Sandy Shocks

Strategy :

This metagame will without a doubt favor rough gameplays around the mechanic. Being able to whistand the most attacks will be the decisive factor, because any Pokémon endowed with 50 BP moves have now the potential to sweep ; Moreover, Pokémon can make moves their own STAB thanks to terastalizing, therefore one should expect these types to appear the most during battles : fire, water, electrick, grass, psychic, bug, fairy, poison, rock, normal.

Q&A

Q1 : Does Copycat copy power stack ?
A1 : No, it doesn't. For example, if Copycat is used after Trailblaze at 150 BP, the copied one would have 50 BP.

Q2 : Does Rage Fist have, well... a "double stack" in power ?
A2 : No, the move is unaffected and keeps having a normal stack.

Questions for the community :

Should I add/remove bans ? Should I provide details on how some moves work under this mechanic ?

Playability : on approval

Council : none yet

How does Payback work?
Fell Stinger should be banned and Flame Charge/Trailblaze/Rapid Spin on the watchlist due to snowball potential.
Draining Kiss is probably also very good.

 

[TeaThymeLine]

I feel like formats that are just damage modifiers are just too small of a change to be worth exploring, they just make for basic HO teams and can't really reach a balancing point because there is always a next best thing that can just deal insane amounts of damage like what just got banned.

I agree, especially as there are not really counters, even if it can be a good opportunity for niche abilities to serve (I think of Water Absorb or Sap Sipper for example).

How does Payback work?
Fell Stinger should be banned and Flame Charge/Trailblaze/Rapid Spin on the watchlist due to snowball potential.
Draining Kiss is probably also very good.

Fell Stinger has been added in Bans, a silly forgetting from me. I was hesitant to do so for Flame Charge/Trailblaze/Rapid Spin in the Watchlist, because there are few moves with 50BP in the end, but I see your point. As for Payback : the base power would be 50*2 + 50*N (N being the number of times the user has been hit) if the attack goes last. Technically speaking, it would reach 350 BP at maximum.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Baton Pass
Conversion
Dragon Darts
Fell Stinger
Last Respects
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Tachyon Cutter

Annihilape
Arceus (all forms)
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chi-Yu
Chien-Pao
Darkrai
Dialga (both forms)
Deoxys (all forms)
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Glastrier
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-oh
Iron Bundle
Iron Boulder
Iron Valiant
Kyogre
Kyurem (all forms)
Lugia
Landorus (both forms)
Palafin
Palkia (both forms)
Raging Bolt
Regieleki
Regigigas
Reshiram
Roaring Moon
Shaymin-Sky
Smeargle
Spectrier
Terapagos (all forms)
Ursaluna (both forms)
Urshifu (both forms)
Volcarona
Walking Wake
Zacian (both forms)
Zamazenta
Zekrom

Why is Conversion on the banlist? Why are Iron Valiant, Iron Boulder, Glastrier, Gouging Fire, Landorus-Therian, and Walking Wake banned?