Does this sentence not make sense to anyone else or am i just being dumb/reading it wrong
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Project Old Gen Hackmons Megathread
- Thread starter Ransei
- Start date
If you were to make a nomination, be elaborate and explain precisely why you feel the Pokémon warrants the nomination. You could be specific Pokémon they beat. For example, they could outmatch various Pokémon above or around it on the viability rankings. It could also be because they truly provide a valuable niche that can serve as useful for consistent wins in the metagame. Don't just say "Entei should be S rank in the Wonder Guard viability rankings because I like it and have won some games with it." Provide valuable information over what it takes advantage of to help you consistently win against the standard metagame, then have some sort of known evidence somewhere that you know what you're doing, either through ladder ranks, consistent tour results, or being able to serve under the role of council, which usually comes with metagame experience.
Reasons I think Gyarados-Mega is dumb stupid and ugly (Gen 6)
1: It can’t run almost any wonder guard
Gyarados-Mega as an offensive huge power mon cannot hit most wg This is usually not much of a problem for other huge power pokemon and those like mmx, regigigas, slaking and many more have extreme variation in sets meaning that even a wg that you cannot hit is still offensively pressured, the surprise factor that these hold is an extreme strength. Gyarados-Mega is most cases not allowed such freedom. Most Gyarados-Mega use a set of -generic dark stab -water shuriken -pursuit -filler, really only leaving 1 move slot to surprise factor. I know many may say something along the lines of “well what about getting rid of one of the 3 moves from before that’s good surprise factor” the problem being this is an extreme mu play and hoping that you get the right wg for it as without both dark moves it can’t beat giratina, it’s main target or without shuriken, groudon the other big fish u want dead.
2: You have trouble hitting wonder guard weak to your stabs
Looking at the vr there are many weak to dark but they mostly have their anti Gyarados-Mega tech. Let’s start with deo a. Deo a is mostly uses as a substitute baton pass user, the anti Gyarados-Mega tech is obvious, baton pass means that pursuit cannot trap it and it’s low speed means it cannot stop the substitute baton pass. MMY is an offensive wg runs a lot of coverage one of the best being secret sword or freeze dry that will ohko Gyarados-Mega after a shell smash, yes mega gyar can sucker punch it but this requires specific coverage, not always available as well as letting mmy switching out. Cresselia is pretty obvious it’s pretty much only used to outspeed and baton pass in front of Gyarados-Mega face. Mega gengar is the probably the best gyar target but it has its own problems as mega gengar is faster allowing baton pass if it has it, however it can kill it a lot of the time. Some say forcing a switch is valuable enough since u gain momentum but there is a problem with that being the fact that most switch out with baton pass in most situations the wg gets momentum.
3: Giratina
Giratina is THE TARGET for Gyarados-Mega but even this is inconsistent, pursuit only does about 45% and 90% switching out so it can’t allows a lot of bullshit with curse recovery allowing Tina to often live and sometimes even force a lot of chip on mega gyar. Equally it has trouble with d-bond Tina allowing a trade, yes this is a good trade but not by much. Spore and will o Tina are major problems but I will talk about those in a later part. Sub pass Tina is self explanatory to why it wouldn’t work.
4: Mold breaker
Gyarados-Mega is somewhat considered a revenge killer to mold breaker pokemon, like many things in Gyarados-Mega this is mu based as really it can only revenge kill groudon or mega diance mold sets and sometimes mega gengar and mega latios if u have sucker punch but that’s only if ur running it since mega gengar and mega latios can ohko you if you don’t, but mega ray, Slaking, Regigigas and Dialga are not killable by Gyarados-Mega
5: Oh yea the other sets
Pheal is mu based again but like it’s ok ig and mold set is so slow I doubt it can get most things done that groudon just does better as well as not losing to diance, but I don’t have much experience with these since nobody uses it.
6: Status
This is the reason why I think Gyarados-Mega is dumb, stupid and ugly it’s extreme weakness to status. Gyarados-Mega usually runs Lum or googles, Lum being the better as googles are mu based. A mega gyar with no Lum has so many problems 1: it can’t trap spore/willo/dvoid tina as it can be status and can’t trap anymore. 2:Even worse mold mu since 99% of mold pokemon run sleep. Mega gyar slow speed and weak/gimmicky prio moves mean that it relies on Lum without it, it does horribly and I find that most of gyar targets run status.
Anyways mega gyar is good despite everything I just think he isn’t that good, like you rank him alongside ray, groudon, and mmx (also chansey ig but whatever). Really the entire point of all of this rant is to not make Gyarados-Mega A+ because it’s not A+ it’s like A or A- but probably A
-Sincerely Eyeos
1: It can’t run almost any wonder guard
Gyarados-Mega as an offensive huge power mon cannot hit most wg This is usually not much of a problem for other huge power pokemon and those like mmx, regigigas, slaking and many more have extreme variation in sets meaning that even a wg that you cannot hit is still offensively pressured, the surprise factor that these hold is an extreme strength. Gyarados-Mega is most cases not allowed such freedom. Most Gyarados-Mega use a set of -generic dark stab -water shuriken -pursuit -filler, really only leaving 1 move slot to surprise factor. I know many may say something along the lines of “well what about getting rid of one of the 3 moves from before that’s good surprise factor” the problem being this is an extreme mu play and hoping that you get the right wg for it as without both dark moves it can’t beat giratina, it’s main target or without shuriken, groudon the other big fish u want dead.
2: You have trouble hitting wonder guard weak to your stabs
Looking at the vr there are many weak to dark but they mostly have their anti Gyarados-Mega tech. Let’s start with deo a. Deo a is mostly uses as a substitute baton pass user, the anti Gyarados-Mega tech is obvious, baton pass means that pursuit cannot trap it and it’s low speed means it cannot stop the substitute baton pass. MMY is an offensive wg runs a lot of coverage one of the best being secret sword or freeze dry that will ohko Gyarados-Mega after a shell smash, yes mega gyar can sucker punch it but this requires specific coverage, not always available as well as letting mmy switching out. Cresselia is pretty obvious it’s pretty much only used to outspeed and baton pass in front of Gyarados-Mega face. Mega gengar is the probably the best gyar target but it has its own problems as mega gengar is faster allowing baton pass if it has it, however it can kill it a lot of the time. Some say forcing a switch is valuable enough since u gain momentum but there is a problem with that being the fact that most switch out with baton pass in most situations the wg gets momentum.
3: Giratina
Giratina is THE TARGET for Gyarados-Mega but even this is inconsistent, pursuit only does about 45% and 90% switching out so it can’t allows a lot of bullshit with curse recovery allowing Tina to often live and sometimes even force a lot of chip on mega gyar. Equally it has trouble with d-bond Tina allowing a trade, yes this is a good trade but not by much. Spore and will o Tina are major problems but I will talk about those in a later part. Sub pass Tina is self explanatory to why it wouldn’t work.
4: Mold breaker
Gyarados-Mega is somewhat considered a revenge killer to mold breaker pokemon, like many things in Gyarados-Mega this is mu based as really it can only revenge kill groudon or mega diance mold sets and sometimes mega gengar and mega latios if u have sucker punch but that’s only if ur running it since mega gengar and mega latios can ohko you if you don’t, but mega ray, Slaking, Regigigas and Dialga are not killable by Gyarados-Mega
5: Oh yea the other sets
Pheal is mu based again but like it’s ok ig and mold set is so slow I doubt it can get most things done that groudon just does better as well as not losing to diance, but I don’t have much experience with these since nobody uses it.
6: Status
This is the reason why I think Gyarados-Mega is dumb, stupid and ugly it’s extreme weakness to status. Gyarados-Mega usually runs Lum or googles, Lum being the better as googles are mu based. A mega gyar with no Lum has so many problems 1: it can’t trap spore/willo/dvoid tina as it can be status and can’t trap anymore. 2:Even worse mold mu since 99% of mold pokemon run sleep. Mega gyar slow speed and weak/gimmicky prio moves mean that it relies on Lum without it, it does horribly and I find that most of gyar targets run status.
Anyways mega gyar is good despite everything I just think he isn’t that good, like you rank him alongside ray, groudon, and mmx (also chansey ig but whatever). Really the entire point of all of this rant is to not make Gyarados-Mega A+ because it’s not A+ it’s like A or A- but probably A
-Sincerely Eyeos
SLEEP TALK ISN'T IN LGPE WHAT THE FUCK
HERE'S THE CORRECT TOUR CODE
I've been trying stall in the few games I've played as of recent, and I've got to say it's a genuinely (but perhaps only temporarily) good archetype. Sleep Talk existing allows you to proactively counter setup sweepers even while asleep, and the LGPE moves' broken secondary effects mean more often than not you're getting good value out of your turn even when resorting to using Sleep Talk. For example, you can run Sizzly Slide/Freezy Frost/Sleep Talk/Recover on x 'mon and it'll have a 2/3 chance to deter a physical foe (Sappy Seed over 50% recovery would also make that 100%, through that sounds unreliable in the long term and I haven't tried forgoing reliable recovery). Crucially, LGPE moves ignore Taunt and can break Substitutes, two ways a sweeper could theoretically get around a would-be check.
The below team's worked for me over the five (5) games I've tried it in.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2101426363 - Old version but sample walled without much trouble. Notice how Muk stays in Turn 13, dealing 84% to MMX with Foul Play.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2108020279?p2 - Sizzly Slide burn chip used to outlast Exeggutor, Melmetal walls Sappy Seed Mega Venusaur.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2108022642?p2 - Again, sample walled without too much trouble, though I realized Foul Play isn't good counterplay for Alakazam since its attack is so damn low.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2108786518?p2 - Sample walled without too much trouble. Foul Play dealt 89% to Shell Smash-boosted MMX turn 6.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2108788348 - Sappy Seed Muk initially successfully checks Alakazam. Slowbro essentially trades with one Lovely Kiss MMX turns 9~12. Venusaur then beats Lovely Kiss Crunch MMX in a 1v1. Stray MMX into MMY sweeper "walled" with Muk (Ransei accidentally forgot a 4th move, though at least 1 team member would've walled a mono-attacker set at this point anyway). Melmetal beats opposing sweeper Venusaur 1v1, then Muk beats Alakazam 1v1 to win.
Potential weaknesses:
- Substitute + Quiver Dance sweepers: Foul Play isn't the setup deterrent it is against Shell Smash foes, and it's harder to break Substitutes, especially if they aren't weak to Fire/Ice/Grass/Psychic/Dark. Has trouble with opposing hyper offense and can only realistically fit one attack though.
- OHKO moves: Either you run Mega Gengar or Alolan Marowak or leave yourself vulnerable to Horn Drill guys. At least the latter has somewhat okay physical bulk and can make use of STAB Sizzly Slide. Fissure immunities are a lot more varied, but running something like Zapdos or Mega Charizard Y doesn't sound ideal, especially with unremovable Stealth Rock. Fortunately running OHKO comes with the caveat of being weak to opposing hyper offense.
- Stealth Rock + doubles: You don't want your mons to get chipped beyond maybe ~60% HP or less since at that point you stop reliably checking what you want to come in on. Fortunately, Stealth Rock's hard to set against opposing hyper offense if using it on a fast lead yourself (see a pattern here?)
- Lovely Kiss spam: Forces the stall player to guess if their opponent uses and hits Lovely Kiss (making Sleep Talk the optimal play) or something else (meaning you just gave a free turn to your opponent if you did use Sleep Talk). Makes the Sleep Talk vs. setup deterrence move interaction close to a 50/50, as opposed to a weighted coinflip in favor of the stall player if they have a healthy Mega Venusaur. Applies more to MMX and Mega Venusaur because other sweepers (Mega Alakazam, Mega Mewtwo Y, and potentially Mega Aerodactyl?) already force Mega Venusaur out.
Lastly, I'd like to nom some Pokemon to rise/drop/get added on the VR:
- Melmetal and Alolan Muk higher, probably to A/B. I don't know where they belong in the long-term but it's not with stuff that has exactly 0 reason to be used like Alolan Sandslash (Sheer Cold doesn't exist). Alolan Exeggutor could probably rise a bit too.
- Mega Slowbro from UR to A/B and Chansey from UR to B. Mega Slowbro actually checks pretty much all MMX variants that Mega Venusaur doesn't and is hard to replace on bulkier teams without something almost distinctly worse like Alolan Marowak. Chansey's selling point is higher special bulk than Alolan Muk, though I think Muk is pretty much better due to STAB Foul Play/healing more from Sappy Seed unless things get really out of hand.
- Alolan Sandslash to UR, does nothing over Melmetal or a different offensive Pokemon that better fits Sandslash's desired role.
- Alolan Marowak from UR to somewhere in the lower ranks? Sounds good enough to justify running on select stall teams, hardwalling Fighting STAB + Megahorn MMX variants and boasting STAB Sizzly Slide, but I also haven't tried it yet so take this with a grain of salt.
Overall, Shell Smash spam HO isn't the only workable team in LGPE Pure Hackmons, and the metagame still has significant development to be had.
HERE'S THE CORRECT TOUR CODE
/tour new gen7letsgoou, elim
/tour setautostart 7
/tour setautodq 3
/tour rules !!Adjust Level = 100,Allow AVs,!Species Clause,!Nickname Clause,!OHKO Clause,!Evasion Moves Clause,!Sleep Clause Mod,+Uber,!Obtainable,-All Moves,+Absorb,+Acid,+Acid Armor,+Agility,+Air Slash,+Amnesia,+Aqua Jet,+Aurora Beam,+Baddy Bad,+Barrage,+Barrier,+Bide,+Bind,+Bite,+Blizzard,+Body Slam,+Bone Club,+Bonemerang,+Bouncy Bubble,+Brick Break,+Bubble,+Bubble Beam,+Bug Buzz,+Bulk Up,+Buzzy Buzz,+Calm Mind,+Clamp,+Clear Smog,+Confuse Ray,+Confusion,+Constrict,+Conversion,+Counter,+Crabhammer,+Crunch,+Cut,+Dark Pulse,+Dazzling Gleam,+Defense Curl,+Dig,+Disable,+Dizzy Punch,+Double Iron Bash,+Double Kick,+Double Slap,+Double Team,+Double-Edge,+Dragon Pulse,+Dragon Rage,+Dragon Tail,+Dream Eater,+Drill Peck,+Drill Run,+Earthquake,+Egg Bomb,+Ember,+Encore,+Explosion,+Facade,+Fake Out,+Feint,+Fire Blast,+Fire Punch,+Fire Spin,+Fissure,+Flamethrower,+Flare Blitz,+Flash,+Flash Cannon,+Floaty Fall,+Fly,+Focus Energy,+Foul Play,+Freezy Frost,+Fury Attack,+Fury Swipes,+Glare,+Glitzy Glow,+Growl,+Growth,+Guillotine,+Gust,+Harden,+Haze,+Headbutt,+Heat Wave,+Helping Hand,+High Jump Kick,+Horn Attack,+Horn Drill,+Hydro Pump,+Hyper Beam,+Hyper Fang,+Hypnosis,+Ice Beam,+Ice Punch,+Ice Shard,+Iron Tail,+Jump Kick,+Karate Chop,+Kinesis,+Leech Life,+Leech Seed,+Leer,+Lick,+Light Screen,+Lovely Kiss,+Low Kick,+Meditate,+Mega Drain,+Mega Kick,+Mega Punch,+Megahorn,+move:Metronome,+Mimic,+Minimize,+Mirror Coat,+Mirror Move,+Mist,+Moonblast,+Nasty Plot,+Night Shade,+Outrage,+Pay Day,+Peck,+Petal Dance,+Pin Missile,+Play Rough,+Poison Gas,+Poison Jab,+Poison Powder,+Poison Sting,+Pound,+Power Whip,+Protect,+Psybeam,+Psychic,+Psywave,+Quick Attack,+Quiver Dance,+Rage,+Razor Leaf,+Razor Wind,+Recover,+Reflect,+Rest,+Roar,+Rock Slide,+Rock Throw,+Roost,+Sand Attack,+Sappy Seed,+Scald,+Scratch,+Screech,+Seismic Toss,+Self-Destruct,+Shadow Ball,+Sharpen,+Shell Smash,+Sing,+Sizzly Slide,+Skull Bash,+Sky Attack,+Slam,+Slash,+Sleep Powder,+Sludge,+Sludge Bomb,+Smog,+Smokescreen,+Soft-Boiled,+Solar Beam,+Sonic Boom,+Sparkly Swirl,+Spike Cannon,+Splash,+Splishy Splash,+Spore,+Stealth Rock,+Stomp,+Strength,+String Shot,+Stun Spore,+Submission,+Substitute,+Sucker Punch,+Super Fang,+Superpower,+Supersonic,+Surf,+Swift,+Swords Dance,+Tackle,+Tail Whip,+Take Down,+Taunt,+Teleport,+Thrash,+Thunder,+Thunder Punch,+Thunder Shock,+Thunder Wave,+Thunderbolt,+Toxic,+Transform,+Tri Attack,+Twineedle,+U-turn,+Vice Grip,+Vine Whip,+Water Gun,+Waterfall,+Whirlwind,+Will-O-Wisp,+Wing Attack,+Withdraw,+Wrap,+X-Scissor,+Yawn,+Zippy Zap
/tour name [Gen 7 Let's Go] Pure Hackmons
/tour setautostart 7
/tour setautodq 3
/tour rules !!Adjust Level = 100,Allow AVs,!Species Clause,!Nickname Clause,!OHKO Clause,!Evasion Moves Clause,!Sleep Clause Mod,+Uber,!Obtainable,-All Moves,+Absorb,+Acid,+Acid Armor,+Agility,+Air Slash,+Amnesia,+Aqua Jet,+Aurora Beam,+Baddy Bad,+Barrage,+Barrier,+Bide,+Bind,+Bite,+Blizzard,+Body Slam,+Bone Club,+Bonemerang,+Bouncy Bubble,+Brick Break,+Bubble,+Bubble Beam,+Bug Buzz,+Bulk Up,+Buzzy Buzz,+Calm Mind,+Clamp,+Clear Smog,+Confuse Ray,+Confusion,+Constrict,+Conversion,+Counter,+Crabhammer,+Crunch,+Cut,+Dark Pulse,+Dazzling Gleam,+Defense Curl,+Dig,+Disable,+Dizzy Punch,+Double Iron Bash,+Double Kick,+Double Slap,+Double Team,+Double-Edge,+Dragon Pulse,+Dragon Rage,+Dragon Tail,+Dream Eater,+Drill Peck,+Drill Run,+Earthquake,+Egg Bomb,+Ember,+Encore,+Explosion,+Facade,+Fake Out,+Feint,+Fire Blast,+Fire Punch,+Fire Spin,+Fissure,+Flamethrower,+Flare Blitz,+Flash,+Flash Cannon,+Floaty Fall,+Fly,+Focus Energy,+Foul Play,+Freezy Frost,+Fury Attack,+Fury Swipes,+Glare,+Glitzy Glow,+Growl,+Growth,+Guillotine,+Gust,+Harden,+Haze,+Headbutt,+Heat Wave,+Helping Hand,+High Jump Kick,+Horn Attack,+Horn Drill,+Hydro Pump,+Hyper Beam,+Hyper Fang,+Hypnosis,+Ice Beam,+Ice Punch,+Ice Shard,+Iron Tail,+Jump Kick,+Karate Chop,+Kinesis,+Leech Life,+Leech Seed,+Leer,+Lick,+Light Screen,+Lovely Kiss,+Low Kick,+Meditate,+Mega Drain,+Mega Kick,+Mega Punch,+Megahorn,+move:Metronome,+Mimic,+Minimize,+Mirror Coat,+Mirror Move,+Mist,+Moonblast,+Nasty Plot,+Night Shade,+Outrage,+Pay Day,+Peck,+Petal Dance,+Pin Missile,+Play Rough,+Poison Gas,+Poison Jab,+Poison Powder,+Poison Sting,+Pound,+Power Whip,+Protect,+Psybeam,+Psychic,+Psywave,+Quick Attack,+Quiver Dance,+Rage,+Razor Leaf,+Razor Wind,+Recover,+Reflect,+Rest,+Roar,+Rock Slide,+Rock Throw,+Roost,+Sand Attack,+Sappy Seed,+Scald,+Scratch,+Screech,+Seismic Toss,+Self-Destruct,+Shadow Ball,+Sharpen,+Shell Smash,+Sing,+Sizzly Slide,+Skull Bash,+Sky Attack,+Slam,+Slash,+Sleep Powder,+Sludge,+Sludge Bomb,+Smog,+Smokescreen,+Soft-Boiled,+Solar Beam,+Sonic Boom,+Sparkly Swirl,+Spike Cannon,+Splash,+Splishy Splash,+Spore,+Stealth Rock,+Stomp,+Strength,+String Shot,+Stun Spore,+Submission,+Substitute,+Sucker Punch,+Super Fang,+Superpower,+Supersonic,+Surf,+Swift,+Swords Dance,+Tackle,+Tail Whip,+Take Down,+Taunt,+Teleport,+Thrash,+Thunder,+Thunder Punch,+Thunder Shock,+Thunder Wave,+Thunderbolt,+Toxic,+Transform,+Tri Attack,+Twineedle,+U-turn,+Vice Grip,+Vine Whip,+Water Gun,+Waterfall,+Whirlwind,+Will-O-Wisp,+Wing Attack,+Withdraw,+Wrap,+X-Scissor,+Yawn,+Zippy Zap
/tour name [Gen 7 Let's Go] Pure Hackmons
Introducing the latest installment to old gens as of this post in Hackmons form...
Let's Go Pure Hackmons
Nobody has played this metagame for over two and a half years but I've played it enough back when it had an LCotM ladder in December 2018. It's a really simple metagame and I remember most of what it's like. Although the ladder lasted four days before becoming incredibly dead, the viability levels of Pokemon in this metagame were incredibly blatant.
Usage stats from December 2018 ladder: https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-12/gen7letsgohackmons-1760.txt
Sample Team:
Let's Go Hyper Offense by Ransei
Team Description: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread.3635904/page-10#post-7974512
Currently when teambuilding, make sure to hit the Import/Export box and edit each Pokemon's ability specifically to No Ability.
Here are viability rankings to reflect the state of this metagame. I wanted to make this preliminary but then I looked through the entire game roster and concluded this is probably all of the Pokemon who are viable in this metagame:- There are only 153 total species of Pokemon.
- There are no items or abilities. Grass-types are the only thing blocking Spore.
- Players can maximize all of their candies on a Pokemon. Everything has Giratina-level bulk.
- Eevee moves are highly absurd. The most prominent ones are Baddy Bad, Glitzy Glow, Sparkly Swirl, and Sappy Seed.
- Baddy Bad is a 90 BP 100% accuracy Dark-type attack that summons Reflect. Glitzy Glow is a 90 BP 100% accuracy Psychic-attack that summons Light Screen. Both are special attacks. Again, everything has Giratina-level bulk.
- Grass-types are the only thing blocking Sappy Seed. This is an unavoidable Leech Seed attack move with 90 BP and 100% accuracy.
- Buzzy Buzz and Sizzly Slide are Partner Eevee moves occasionally used for other status. Buzzy Buzz is a 90 BP and 100% accuracy move with a 100% paralysis chance. Sizzly Slide is a 90 BP and 100% accuracy move with a 100% burn chance.
- Sparkly Swirl is incredibly useful. It is an unavoidable damage move that cures the whole team's status.
- Shell Smash is everywhere. This is not because it's broken here. It's because Pokemon cannot do any decent damage to their opponents otherwise.
Viability Rankings
S Rank
Venusaur-Mega
A Rank
Aerodactyl-Mega
Alakazam-Mega
B Rank
Exeggutor
Mewtwo-Mega-X
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
C Rank
Charizard-Mega-X
Exeggutor-Alola
Zapdos
D Rank
Gyarados-Mega
Melmetal
Muk-Alola
Sandslash-Alola
Now available in Old Shark./tour new gen7letsgoou, elim
/tour setautostart 7
/tour setautodq 3
/tour ruleset !!Adjust Level = 100, --Nonexistent, !Obtainable Moves, !Species Clause, !Nickname Clause, !OHKO Clause, !Evasion Moves Clause, !Sleep Clause Mod, +Uber, Allow AVs, !Obtainable Formes
/tour name [Gen 7 Let's Go] Pure Hackmons
I've been trying stall in the few games I've played as of recent, and I've got to say it's a genuinely (but perhaps only temporarily) good archetype. Sleep Talk existing allows you to proactively counter setup sweepers even while asleep, and the LGPE moves' broken secondary effects mean more often than not you're getting good value out of your turn even when resorting to using Sleep Talk. For example, you can run Sizzly Slide/Freezy Frost/Sleep Talk/Recover on x 'mon and it'll have a 2/3 chance to deter a physical foe (Sappy Seed over 50% recovery would also make that 100%, through that sounds unreliable in the long term and I haven't tried forgoing reliable recovery). Crucially, LGPE moves ignore Taunt and can break Substitutes, two ways a sweeper could theoretically get around a would-be check.
The below team's worked for me over the five (5) games I've tried it in.
Mega Venusaur primarily comes in on opposing Mega Venusaur/MMX without supereffective coverage. Sizzly Slide and Freezy Frost are good setup sweeper counterplay, burning and Hazing the foe respectively, and the former's burn also serves as consistent chip in a metagame where non-Mega Stone items don't exist offensive Pokemon seldom run recovery. Sleep Talk allows Venusaur to proactively handle foes even while asleep; Lovely Kiss is a common move choice over Spore since sleep is broken and Mega Venusaur is perhaps the best Pokemon in the game. Recover for recovery.
Melmetal's your primary switchin to Mega Aerodactyl, a soft check to mono-Glitzy Glow attackers if Alolan Muk goes down, and a secondary switchin to Mega Venusaur. Double Iron Bash for somewhat strong STAB (more like chip when everything is insanely bulky), Sizzly Slide to burn the mostly physical threats Melmetal comes in on, Sleep Talk to not become setup fodder for Spore/Lovely Kiss users (that is, every Pokemon in the game), and Recover for recovery.
Alolan Muk's your primary switchin to Mega Alakazam/Mega Mewtwo Y and a secondary switchin to Mega Venusaur. STAB Foul Play actually 2HKOes most Shell Smash-boosted sweepers, making it useful for either 1v1ing foes or staying in on a predicted Shell Smash then switching to a check. I don't know if I've ever clicked Sappy Seed but it theoretically helps Muk deal with whatever it switches in on, since Leech Seed against a 'mon with no recovery sounds pretty useful. Also nice to call with Sleep Talk I guess. You can replace it with Freezy Frost if you want. Sleep Talk for everything and recovery to check what Muk needs to.
Alolan Exeggutor isn't a hard check to anything specifically, but it's there if a bulkier switchin is asleep and you don't want to rely on Sleep Talk odds. In practice that means you come in on Kanto Exeggutor and some weakened unboosted mons, pretty much. Sizzly Slide burns stuff and Foul Play damages Shell Smash-boosted foes. I don't really like this combination as is though, since Exeggutor gets 2HKOed by a lot of neutral foes at +2, lessening the value of the latter move. Stealth Rock limits opposing switches, which is impactful when it's hard to directly threaten foes with conventional attacks. It's also unremovable in LGPE. Recover for recovery.
Mega Slowbro's a good switchin for unscouted Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Charizard X, especially if the former's burned. Freezy Frost and Foul Play deter setup, though they target the same aspect of sweepers in neutralizing them proactively post-Shell Smash. Therefore, you want to burn the foe with a Sizzly Slide mon first if you can help it. Sleep Talk for everything. Recover for recovery.
Chansey complements Alolan Muk as a switch-in to Mega Alakazam and Mega Mewtwo Y, though it doesn't like switching into Sappy Seed foes due to the comparatively high opposing HP gain. Despite being a Chansey you're still prone to getting broken through by special foes, so Glitzy Glow for the Light Screen effect sounded useful. Freezy Frost to remove boosts, Sleep Talk for sleep, and Recover for recovery.
Mega Venusaur is particularly useful due to its good bulk and Spore/Leech Seed immunity, so try to safely scout opposing movesets when using it as a check (for example, by using Recover when healthy so you're not in a terrible spot if a +2 Glitzy Glow from MMX deals 90%). Don't be afraid to predict opposing Spore or Lovely Kiss uses with Sleep Talk. Playing passively doesn't get you far due to sleep turns allowing the opponent to move more on average; don't be afraid to make doubles when necessary and/or relatively safe. Feel free to predict opposing Shell Smash uses with Foul Play or Freezy Frost, since that interaction is a net gain for you with the opposing mon getting chipped when running recovery on sweepers is basically impossible. Basically, don't throw your Pokemon away but make the most of the turns you got.
Melmetal's your primary switchin to Mega Aerodactyl, a soft check to mono-Glitzy Glow attackers if Alolan Muk goes down, and a secondary switchin to Mega Venusaur. Double Iron Bash for somewhat strong STAB (more like chip when everything is insanely bulky), Sizzly Slide to burn the mostly physical threats Melmetal comes in on, Sleep Talk to not become setup fodder for Spore/Lovely Kiss users (that is, every Pokemon in the game), and Recover for recovery.
Alolan Muk's your primary switchin to Mega Alakazam/Mega Mewtwo Y and a secondary switchin to Mega Venusaur. STAB Foul Play actually 2HKOes most Shell Smash-boosted sweepers, making it useful for either 1v1ing foes or staying in on a predicted Shell Smash then switching to a check. I don't know if I've ever clicked Sappy Seed but it theoretically helps Muk deal with whatever it switches in on, since Leech Seed against a 'mon with no recovery sounds pretty useful. Also nice to call with Sleep Talk I guess. You can replace it with Freezy Frost if you want. Sleep Talk for everything and recovery to check what Muk needs to.
Alolan Exeggutor isn't a hard check to anything specifically, but it's there if a bulkier switchin is asleep and you don't want to rely on Sleep Talk odds. In practice that means you come in on Kanto Exeggutor and some weakened unboosted mons, pretty much. Sizzly Slide burns stuff and Foul Play damages Shell Smash-boosted foes. I don't really like this combination as is though, since Exeggutor gets 2HKOed by a lot of neutral foes at +2, lessening the value of the latter move. Stealth Rock limits opposing switches, which is impactful when it's hard to directly threaten foes with conventional attacks. It's also unremovable in LGPE. Recover for recovery.
Mega Slowbro's a good switchin for unscouted Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Charizard X, especially if the former's burned. Freezy Frost and Foul Play deter setup, though they target the same aspect of sweepers in neutralizing them proactively post-Shell Smash. Therefore, you want to burn the foe with a Sizzly Slide mon first if you can help it. Sleep Talk for everything. Recover for recovery.
Chansey complements Alolan Muk as a switch-in to Mega Alakazam and Mega Mewtwo Y, though it doesn't like switching into Sappy Seed foes due to the comparatively high opposing HP gain. Despite being a Chansey you're still prone to getting broken through by special foes, so Glitzy Glow for the Light Screen effect sounded useful. Freezy Frost to remove boosts, Sleep Talk for sleep, and Recover for recovery.
Mega Venusaur is particularly useful due to its good bulk and Spore/Leech Seed immunity, so try to safely scout opposing movesets when using it as a check (for example, by using Recover when healthy so you're not in a terrible spot if a +2 Glitzy Glow from MMX deals 90%). Don't be afraid to predict opposing Spore or Lovely Kiss uses with Sleep Talk. Playing passively doesn't get you far due to sleep turns allowing the opponent to move more on average; don't be afraid to make doubles when necessary and/or relatively safe. Feel free to predict opposing Shell Smash uses with Foul Play or Freezy Frost, since that interaction is a net gain for you with the opposing mon getting chipped when running recovery on sweepers is basically impossible. Basically, don't throw your Pokemon away but make the most of the turns you got.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2101426363 - Old version but sample walled without much trouble. Notice how Muk stays in Turn 13, dealing 84% to MMX with Foul Play.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2108020279?p2 - Sizzly Slide burn chip used to outlast Exeggutor, Melmetal walls Sappy Seed Mega Venusaur.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2108022642?p2 - Again, sample walled without too much trouble, though I realized Foul Play isn't good counterplay for Alakazam since its attack is so damn low.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2108786518?p2 - Sample walled without too much trouble. Foul Play dealt 89% to Shell Smash-boosted MMX turn 6.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgoou-2108788348 - Sappy Seed Muk initially successfully checks Alakazam. Slowbro essentially trades with one Lovely Kiss MMX turns 9~12. Venusaur then beats Lovely Kiss Crunch MMX in a 1v1. Stray MMX into MMY sweeper "walled" with Muk (Ransei accidentally forgot a 4th move, though at least 1 team member would've walled a mono-attacker set at this point anyway). Melmetal beats opposing sweeper Venusaur 1v1, then Muk beats Alakazam 1v1 to win.
Potential weaknesses:
- Substitute + Quiver Dance sweepers: Foul Play isn't the setup deterrent it is against Shell Smash foes, and it's harder to break Substitutes, especially if they aren't weak to Fire/Ice/Grass/Psychic/Dark. Has trouble with opposing hyper offense and can only realistically fit one attack though.
- OHKO moves: Either you run Mega Gengar or Alolan Marowak or leave yourself vulnerable to Horn Drill guys. At least the latter has somewhat okay physical bulk and can make use of STAB Sizzly Slide. Fissure immunities are a lot more varied, but running something like Zapdos or Mega Charizard Y doesn't sound ideal, especially with unremovable Stealth Rock. Fortunately running OHKO comes with the caveat of being weak to opposing hyper offense.
- Stealth Rock + doubles: You don't want your mons to get chipped beyond maybe ~60% HP or less since at that point you stop reliably checking what you want to come in on. Fortunately, Stealth Rock's hard to set against opposing hyper offense if using it on a fast lead yourself (see a pattern here?)
- Lovely Kiss spam: Forces the stall player to guess if their opponent uses and hits Lovely Kiss (making Sleep Talk the optimal play) or something else (meaning you just gave a free turn to your opponent if you did use Sleep Talk). Makes the Sleep Talk vs. setup deterrence move interaction close to a 50/50, as opposed to a weighted coinflip in favor of the stall player if they have a healthy Mega Venusaur. Applies more to MMX and Mega Venusaur because other sweepers (Mega Alakazam, Mega Mewtwo Y, and potentially Mega Aerodactyl?) already force Mega Venusaur out.
- Melmetal and Alolan Muk higher, probably to A/B. I don't know where they belong in the long-term but it's not with stuff that has exactly 0 reason to be used like Alolan Sandslash (Sheer Cold doesn't exist). Alolan Exeggutor could probably rise a bit too.
- Mega Slowbro from UR to A/B and Chansey from UR to B. Mega Slowbro actually checks pretty much all MMX variants that Mega Venusaur doesn't and is hard to replace on bulkier teams without something almost distinctly worse like Alolan Marowak. Chansey's selling point is higher special bulk than Alolan Muk, though I think Muk is pretty much better due to STAB Foul Play/healing more from Sappy Seed unless things get really out of hand.
- Alolan Sandslash to UR, does nothing over Melmetal or a different offensive Pokemon that better fits Sandslash's desired role.
- Alolan Marowak from UR to somewhere in the lower ranks? Sounds good enough to justify running on select stall teams, hardwalling Fighting STAB + Megahorn MMX variants and boasting STAB Sizzly Slide, but I also haven't tried it yet so take this with a grain of salt.
Overall, Shell Smash spam HO isn't the only workable team in LGPE Pure Hackmons, and the metagame still has significant development to be had.
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Rate my team: specs ray semistall
This team is probably going to be my last gen6 team for a long while. This is the culmination of my ladder and tour experience, and with a little inspiration from a few other community members, I am finally finished with it.
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 164 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Punch
- Low Kick
- Dragon Ascent
Stag MMX has been a personal love of mine ever since I saw the banded set listed in the smogon analysis. With a little help from Shay's Fate in choosing some of the moves and IV's, this set started to come to life. 44hp / 44 def ensures I take the least amount of damage from Mgyarados's Sucker Punch, MMX's shadow sneak, while also allowing MMX to more comfortably live non huge power fakespeed gigas, and then outspeed and trap / revenge kill all of them. Steam eruption ohko's all non AV pdon, while ice punch is more accurate than icicle crash and still ohko's all ray variants except for already set up cotton guard variants. Low kick threatens non wg Pogre, (which regrettably has been a semi-recurring threat in recent tours) Mgyara, Blissey, Slaking, and arceus, while not ohko'ing defensive slaking or arceus, it still deals very respectable damage. Dragon ascent hits Mbeedrill, Opposing mmx, and weakens opposing fighting resistant uncommon sweepers. Naughty nature allows for guaranteed ohko on Pdon, and 164 speed + scarf allows for outspeeding of non scarf Deo-s, and any other non-scarf frail Pokemon. MMX acts as this teams threat remover, allowing teammates to more easily make progress by either not fearing revenge killing, or simply being able to pressure a now weaker sweeper or wonder guard pokemon. This team is probably going to be my last gen6 team for a long while. This is the culmination of my ladder and tour experience, and with a little inspiration from a few other community members, I am finally finished with it.
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 164 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Punch
- Low Kick
- Dragon Ascent
4 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-X Steam Eruption vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Groudon-Primal: 340-400 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Deoxys-Attack @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def
- Gastro Acid
- Psystrike
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
Audino-Mega @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Parting Shot
- Defog
- Chatter
- Roost
Rayquaza-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Chatter
- Oblivion Wing
- Spacial Rend
Giratina @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Toxic
- Curse
- Roost
Blissey (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Whirlwind
- Recover
- Baton Pass
- Aromatherapy
Checks and Counters:
Stag with fighting coverage. If the opposing team has stag with fighting coverage, blissey can be easily trapped and removed, opening a hole for special attackers to break through.
Protean Mlatios. this mon hits like a truck, and with the right coverage can rip through the team unless mmx can trap and remove it while it is weak to either low kick or Dragon ascent.
Sub taunt ray. taunt variants of subray break through blissey easily, and if not dealt with early by mmx, can ruin the team as the only other good way to deal with subray is lucky confusion from Maud/ray into mmx removing it.
Have fun! https://pokepast.es/833dc7e7b21c6de3
Threats for the team and how to beat them
Blissey: There's no realistic way you're breaking this, any set using Shed Shell will be able to escape MMX and Spacial Rend maxes at 33.1%, your best option to break it is to pray you get lucky with Chatter. A way to break through Blissey would be to use Secret Sword.
Revenge Killing: Revenge killers are the bane of Specs Rayquaza, STAG PDon blocks Volt Switch, Mega Gyarados is bulky enough to take an Spacial Rend and strong enough OHKO with Knock Off/Boosted Pursuit and Regigigas barely needs some chip to kill with the Fake Out + Extreme Speed combo. While some of these can be dealt with by using Volt Switch, nothing stops Regigigas or Gyarados from coming after Rayquaza has killed a pokemon. Substitute helps with this problem, however, it won't always have a Substitute.
Reliance on Rayquaza: Once Rayquaza is dead the entire team is unable to do any significant damage, with Curse + Toxic being the best option, but this isn't great because you've lost all your offensive power and the opposing team can more freely use Aromatherapy/Recover. Another thing you should watch out for is losing the Choice Specs, without them Rayquaza becomes a regular Shell Smash Rayquaza that cannot use Shell Smash and cannot put things asleep.
Changes I would do to the team
Switcheroo > Ice Punch
Arena Trap > Shadow Tag
I feel like in this particular team you should be using Arena Tap as it helps trap opposing Shadow Tag users like the aftermentioned Regigigas and Primal Groudon who would otherwise be a huge problem. Ice Punch would be dropped here because you can no longer trap Mega Rayquaza. Another option if you want to threaten Mega Rayquaza and run Switcheroo is Diamond Storm, which also hits Mega Beedrill but loses out on opposing MMX (However, with three Wonder Guards you should be good vs it).
If you're gonna run 0 Def EVs/IVs to make opposing imposter frailer to it with SpD too because you're probably gonna pass the Subs to Ray 90% of the time.
Just use max SpDef, Tina already beats the niche sets like Earthquake Ray
Blissey: There's no realistic way you're breaking this, any set using Shed Shell will be able to escape MMX and Spacial Rend maxes at 33.1%, your best option to break it is to pray you get lucky with Chatter. A way to break through Blissey would be to use Secret Sword.
Revenge Killing: Revenge killers are the bane of Specs Rayquaza, STAG PDon blocks Volt Switch, Mega Gyarados is bulky enough to take an Spacial Rend and strong enough OHKO with Knock Off/Boosted Pursuit and Regigigas barely needs some chip to kill with the Fake Out + Extreme Speed combo. While some of these can be dealt with by using Volt Switch, nothing stops Regigigas or Gyarados from coming after Rayquaza has killed a pokemon. Substitute helps with this problem, however, it won't always have a Substitute.
Reliance on Rayquaza: Once Rayquaza is dead the entire team is unable to do any significant damage, with Curse + Toxic being the best option, but this isn't great because you've lost all your offensive power and the opposing team can more freely use Aromatherapy/Recover. Another thing you should watch out for is losing the Choice Specs, without them Rayquaza becomes a regular Shell Smash Rayquaza that cannot use Shell Smash and cannot put things asleep.
Changes I would do to the team
Switcheroo > Ice Punch
Arena Trap > Shadow Tag
I feel like in this particular team you should be using Arena Tap as it helps trap opposing Shadow Tag users like the aftermentioned Regigigas and Primal Groudon who would otherwise be a huge problem. Ice Punch would be dropped here because you can no longer trap Mega Rayquaza. Another option if you want to threaten Mega Rayquaza and run Switcheroo is Diamond Storm, which also hits Mega Beedrill but loses out on opposing MMX (However, with three Wonder Guards you should be good vs it).
If you're gonna run 0 Def EVs/IVs to make opposing imposter frailer to it with SpD too because you're probably gonna pass the Subs to Ray 90% of the time.
Just use max SpDef, Tina already beats the niche sets like Earthquake Ray
ORAS Pure Hackmons
Leader(s): Bahamut, NToTheN
Council: Bahamut, Mbouchon, NToTheN
Resources:
Solving ORAS Hackmons by berry
Introduction to Gen 6 Pure Hackmons by CHORUME
Mechanical Differences in between Generations by Jellicent
ORAS Hackmons: Metagame Trends Part 1 and Part 2 by Mbouchon
Arceus Guide by Ransei
Sample Teams:
Deer Squad Redux Spam by Mbouchon
Dual Mold + Gengar-Mega WonderGuard by Shays Fate
Dual MMX Offense by Bahamut and Mbouchon
Protean + STAG PDon Offense by NToTheN
View attachment 452848
HUGE POWER SPAM by Bahamut and Mbouchon
Cotton Guard Rayquaza + WG Gengar + Abomasnow Bulky Offense by Mbouchon
Triple Wonder Guard Offense with Rotom-Fan by Bahamut
Mold Breaker Diancie Bulky Offense by Mbouchon
Scarf No Guard Aerodactyl-Mega and Dread Plate Arceus Balance by NToTheN
Bulky Beedrill Offense by NToTheN
Dual Xerneas Hyper Offense by WrathoftheLeopard
Wonderguard MMX + Huge power MMX + Imposter offense by Mbouchon
Other Resources:
Viability Rankings
Ability Viability Rankings
Setpedia
Wonder Guard Setpedia
Speed Tiers
Threatlist
Wonder Guard Weakness Severity Rankings
FAQ:/tour new gen6purehackmons, elim
/tour setautostart 7
/tour autodq 3
Q: Why is there an EV limit?
A: In Generation 6, it's impossible to play in local matches with other players if the total amount of EVs on one of your Pokémon is above 510, regardless of whether it's legal or not.
Q: Are sample submissions open? How do I submit a sample team?
A: Yes just submit submissions by posting them with a description in this forum.[/user]
hey, can I submit a team for samples? idk how to start this so I'll just get into this.
https://pokepast.es/abe099825dc06f08
Groudon-Primal @ Mental Herb
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Extreme Speed
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Thousand Arrows
This groudon set is meant to act as a sweeper, and a counter to giratina.
Spore is meant for putting the foe to sleep, and then using shell smash once (or twice depending on the pokemon, however shell smashing twice risks the foe waking up) to sweep with extreme speed and thousand arrows for the more bulky mons.
Mental herb is meant for countering encore giratina who try and bait a shell smash to encore the user. most giratina will either switch, curse or destiny bond which all benefit you or work as a trade.
I will say, this groudon folds to safety goggles users, and certain parting shot users, most prominently audino-mega.
Latios-Mega (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- V-create
- Draco Meteor
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
Latios is meant to pick off and counter certain specific meta pokemon like scizor-mega, primal groudon (which kills after soul dew), audino-mega (assuming you've gotten a draco or leaf storm/parting shot), kyogre-primal, giratina, imposter blissey/chansey (assuming you win the speed tie), xerneas (see audino-mega conditions), registeel, etc.
Latios also can work as a sweeper, if you're lucky with the MU as one V-Create and one Draco Meteor is all it takes then.
This set hard crumbles to mmx.
Gyarados-Mega @ Dread Plate
Ability: Huge Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Sucker Punch
- Gastro Acid
- Pursuit
- Water Shuriken
This is the standard gyarados-mega set with dread plate, I'm sure you know what this does
Blissey (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Lunar Dance
- Wish
Imposter Blissey does all the wonderful imposter things, as well as ignoring powder moves with safety goggles.
The reason why I use safety goggles is because if you sack a mon and swap to blissey, if the opponent uses spore (because if they have it, they'll pretty often use it) then even if you lose the speed tie, you'll still come out on top.
Arceus-Ghost @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpD
- Extreme Speed
- Shell Smash
- Spore
- Knock Off
This arceus set does mostly the same things as groudon-primal, however it's not as weak to goggles users. you can still counterplay giratina by baiting the switch via spore then a knock off right after, though mind you this doesn't always work and your best option there is to swap to gyarados-mega.
Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Roar
- Secret Sword
- Gastro Acid
This set works on the fact that nobody in their right mind would expect wonder guard mgar. aside from that what it actually does is it has a neutral matchup vs mmx, it has a favourable matchup against most no-guard mons, mfug, and support mons (giratina, slowbro-mega, baton pass mons, etc.), and it works as an offensive wonder guard mon surprisingly well. One last thing before I move onto this thing's weaknesses, I'd like to mention that this set hard walls any imposter mon.
This set is weak to yveltal, occasionally beedrill-mega, and by far its biggest weakness is groudon-primal.
Overall, I'd day this set works as a well-rounded offensive team with a few weaknesses (looking at you, pdon) but also a fair but of strengths.
Before I post this, I'm going to give a special thanks to Protime573 and Ransei for helping me create this team, and hell getting into this community at all, I couldn't have done it without you guys.
I got bored and made a set importable for gen 3, hope this is useful to people
https://pokepast.es/0c6ef3f39c60f66e
Edit: made a small update fixing a few typos, cleaning things up and adding a Kabutops set I forgot about
https://pokepast.es/0c6ef3f39c60f66e
Edit: made a small update fixing a few typos, cleaning things up and adding a Kabutops set I forgot about
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Just post it here, along with why you think it should be in the setpedia, maybe give a few replays of it in action, and we'll consider adding it!
Ok thanks, I will do it. It may take a few time because I have to get replays.
For the replays, do they need a minimum elo, or if I think it may be interesting I can use it, even with a low elo ?
No minimum elo required! As long as you think it demonstrates well how the set it used, that's all that matters. Having replays against high-leveled opponents will definitely showcase the set's effectiveness more clearly, but it is by no means required.
Hello, I'd like to suggest a set that I think might be worse to be added to the setpedia.
Before detailing the set, I'll explain why I chose Arceus and not another pokemon :
First, I wanted a pokemon with a good global bulk (e. g. Not Steelix-Mega which has a high Def but a low SpD), so you may ask "Why not use Giratina (150HP/120Def/120SpD) or Zygard-C ?"
You'd be right, they both have better overall bulk than Arceus, and Zygarde-C is certainly the pokemon with the best overall bulk.
However I've got 3 problems with these pokemons :
What's more, Arceus has enough bulk to tank a MMX Huge Power Photon Geyser with Nature +Atk even without a +Def nature.
Then Arceus will be able to put it asleep with Spore (be careful you can't switch in and then use Spore, and MMX may have low kick, which would obliterate Arceus).
Now, I will detail the set :
Arceus' weaknesses :
This set of arceus is kinda weak against set-up sweeper (that managed to set-up)(Kartana is a huge problem due to its grass type) they can easily kill Arceus, even behind a substitute (It may put the opposing mon asleep but that's almost all). Another hugepower problem are defensive cores with a Shed Shell, Arceus can't trap them and will just wastes Leech Seed's PP. The biggest problem for Arceus are Magic Bouncers that can globally wall Arceus, however if Arceus is under a sub, it's immune to spore and leech seed. Then Arceus may kill it/low it HPs with Nature's Madness/Infestation if the MBouncer can't hurt Arceus/do a lot of damage to its sub (e. g. Zygarde-C Thousand Waves). The other biggest problem are Magic guarder that takes no damage from leech seed and infestation.
Arceus' strengths and why I think it should be added to the setpedia :
First of all, this set is quite easy to add in a classic team, it's fit extremely good in a WGuard core with offensive and defensive mons (it gives a small offensive presence with Nature's madness and a defensive one with it good bulk).
As said earlier it can trap and kill a annoying Prankster Hazer or a WGuarder without Shed Shell.
It can also switch in on a lot of offensive threats to kill them and is immune to Moongeist and Moldy Spectral Thief.
With a sub, Arceus may be really hard to kill, and the oppo may need to use Whirlwind.
Arceus may easily clear the opposing team if the opponent has lost all its set-up sweeper/MBouncer.
Here it is, the set is for
(Arceus) :
Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Spore
- Nature's Madness / Infestation
As you can see it's a subseed set. (Arceus) :Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Spore
- Nature's Madness / Infestation
Before detailing the set, I'll explain why I chose Arceus and not another pokemon :
First, I wanted a pokemon with a good global bulk (e. g. Not Steelix-Mega which has a high Def but a low SpD), so you may ask "Why not use Giratina (150HP/120Def/120SpD) or Zygard-C ?"
You'd be right, they both have better overall bulk than Arceus, and Zygarde-C is certainly the pokemon with the best overall bulk.
However I've got 3 problems with these pokemons :
- They're weak to ice and fairy, so a Sheer Cold would kill them despite Wonder Guard, and they can't switch-in safely on Diancie-Mega (all the damage calculation will be showed near to the end of this post).
- They're not immune to Moongeist Beam, unlike Arceus, so they'll get hit by an extra moldy move.
- They're slightly slower than Arceus, which can be a disadvantage: Arceus is sure to out speed (without + Spe nature) Diancie-Mega, who also threatens the two Dragons mentioned above ; Rayquaza-Mega ; Slaking and Regigigas, who will be forced to use Sunsteel strike thanks to Wonder Guard's Normal immunity ; Groudon and Kyogre, which become very dangerous after Shell Smash.
What's more, Arceus has enough bulk to tank a MMX Huge Power Photon Geyser with Nature +Atk even without a +Def nature.
Then Arceus will be able to put it asleep with Spore (be careful you can't switch in and then use Spore, and MMX may have low kick, which would obliterate Arceus).
Yes MAudino is immune to Moongeist.
Yes MAudino isn't weak to Sheer Cold.
Yes MAudino survives one Photon Geyser from MMX.
No MAudino hasn't a better bulk than Arceus :
Arceus : undefined bulk (evs: 252/252+/252+)
physical: 165,168 [444 hp, 372 def]
special: 165,168 [444 hp, 372 spdef]
MAudino : undefined bulk (evs: 252/252+/252+)
physical: 158,260 [410 hp, 386 def]
special: 158,260 [410 hp, 386 spdef]
Also MAudino can be OhKOed by Sunsteel Strike MMX and if MMX has a +Atk nature (e. g. Adamant) MAudino is assure to be KOed if it took damage from hazards (and MAudino is almost certain to be KOed if hurt by burn/toxic)
(And it is even slower than Tina/Zygarde-C)
Yes MAudino isn't weak to Sheer Cold.
Yes MAudino survives one Photon Geyser from MMX.
No MAudino hasn't a better bulk than Arceus :
Arceus : undefined bulk (evs: 252/252+/252+)
physical: 165,168 [444 hp, 372 def]
special: 165,168 [444 hp, 372 spdef]
MAudino : undefined bulk (evs: 252/252+/252+)
physical: 158,260 [410 hp, 386 def]
special: 158,260 [410 hp, 386 spdef]
Also MAudino can be OhKOed by Sunsteel Strike MMX and if MMX has a +Atk nature (e. g. Adamant) MAudino is assure to be KOed if it took damage from hazards (and MAudino is almost certain to be KOed if hurt by burn/toxic)
(And it is even slower than Tina/Zygarde-C)
Now, I will detail the set :
- First the IVs and EVs are classic (max everywhere, except in Atk because it's not needed)(N. b. EVs in SpA are not required if Infestation is not played). I use Bold / Calm Nature to boost Def/SpD whichever is the main interest for picking Arceus ; choose the nature according to what you need the most in your team
- The item are the Leftovers which give a passive heal to Arceus, even without the leech seed. I thought that Shed Shell might be useful to escape Perish Song/Revenge Killer but the Leftovers have a better overall role, it's needed most part of time, where the shed shell is usefull in few occasions (you can avoid being killed by revenge killer with a substitute). The Leftovers allow you to switch in sometimes on a none moldy attack and the switch out to get leftovers recovery, and then have enough HPs to use Arceus on a more opportun moment.
- The ability is Wonder Guard, WGuard is necessary to let Arceus fulifill its role. It allows Arceus to switch in in a safe way on a lot of offensive mons (e. g. Diancie-M which will must use Sunsteel)
- I will now explain why I chose these attacks
- The first move is substitute which is obviously needed for a good subseed set
It gives Arceus the possibility to get hit by an attack that should have killed it (you lose 25% instead of 100%), it allows it to get one turn or more without being hit, it also keep Arceus from most status (except sleep from sing), finally it protect Arceus from Magic Bouncer that would bounce the Leech Seed and the spore. - The second one is Leech Seed, it gives to Arceus the possibility to finish a weakened team by dealing damage to all mons except grass one. Of course it also heals Arceus and with the Leftovers they give a decent heal source.
- The third move is Spore, I chose it over Lovely Kiss because Leech Seed doesn't work on grass types, so you won't often use LKiss on a grass type (this cancels out Spore's disadvantage). Spore allows Arceus to defeat (with a bit of luck) offensive monsters like MMX. And if a WGuarder is sleeping, it won't be able to heal up.
- Finally, I suggest 2 moves for the last slot (the two attacks don't really care of the opponent's stat so it's really effective on defensive mons)
- Nature's Madness : This move is really useful 'cause it can easily down opponent's HP to help Leech Seed, more over it break instantly substitutes if the other pokemon has 50% or more of it max HP (it's really useful to counter sub user like Ash Greninja or Gyarados @ Gyaradosite). Thanks to it's Fairy type, Nature's madness will always hit if the opponent is not WGuard. It also hit some dark WGuarder, mainly M-Gyarados, Hoopa and Ash-Gren.
- Infestation : I chose infestation for two main reasons : It deals 1/8 of the opponent's mon max HP (which become 1/4 with Leech Seed), so you'll continue dealing damage even if Arceus is switched out ; Infestation traps the target which help to use less PP of Leech Seed (because the opponent won't be able to switch out to cancel it). If the opposing mon has PShot it can be cancelled by Spore (this is why Arceus need to be fast). U-turn doesn't hit Arceus and Bpass gives the Leech Seed and Infestation to the next mon. This is really useful against bulky non-WGuard pokemons, such as Steelix-Mega and Doublade, and against Bug weakness WGuarders (such as Slowbro-M, Meloeta, Gyarados-M, Ash Gren...).
- The first move is substitute which is obviously needed for a good subseed set
Arceus' weaknesses :
This set of arceus is kinda weak against set-up sweeper (that managed to set-up)(Kartana is a huge problem due to its grass type) they can easily kill Arceus, even behind a substitute (It may put the opposing mon asleep but that's almost all). Another huge
Arceus' strengths and why I think it should be added to the setpedia :
First of all, this set is quite easy to add in a classic team, it's fit extremely good in a WGuard core with offensive and defensive mons (it gives a small offensive presence with Nature's madness and a defensive one with it good bulk).
As said earlier it can trap and kill a annoying Prankster Hazer or a WGuarder without Shed Shell.
It can also switch in on a lot of offensive threats to kill them and is immune to Moongeist and Moldy Spectral Thief.
With a sub, Arceus may be really hard to kill, and the oppo may need to use Whirlwind.
Arceus may easily clear the opposing team if the opponent has lost all its set-up sweeper/MBouncer.
This replay shows how Arceus CAN (the win relies on sleep RNG and leech seed has only 90% accuracy) beat MMX in a 1v1 (this replay was done with my alt) : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2168996224
This replay shows how Arceus can clear a weakened team (Interesting part : from turn 18 to the end) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2161863077?p2
This replay shows how Arceus can beat an unprepared team (I know the opponent had a really low elo and Arceus had Super Fang instead of Nature's Madness but I think it didn't change much)(Interesting part : from turn 4 to the end) : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2108303650
This replay shows how Arceus can switch in many time to help its team with spore and infestation : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2168805142?p2
This replay shows how Arceus can help the team too, and how Arceus may have won if I used Substitute instead of wasting a Leech Seed : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2167731427?p2
This replay shows how Arceus can clear a weakened team (Interesting part : from turn 18 to the end) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2161863077?p2
This replay shows how Arceus can beat an unprepared team (I know the opponent had a really low elo and Arceus had Super Fang instead of Nature's Madness but I think it didn't change much)(Interesting part : from turn 4 to the end) : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2108303650
This replay shows how Arceus can switch in many time to help its team with spore and infestation : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2168805142?p2
This replay shows how Arceus can help the team too, and how Arceus may have won if I used Substitute instead of wasting a Leech Seed : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2167731427?p2
The calculations are presented in the order of mention in the post above.
Diancie-M / Giratina : 252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 536-632 (106.3 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Diancie-M / Zygarde-C : 252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 576-678 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
MMX (Photon Geyser) / Arceus : 252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
MMX (Low Kick) / Arceus : 252 Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 662-782 (149 - 176.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
MMX (Sunsteel) / MAudino : 252 Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 356-420 (86.8 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
MMX (Sunsteel +Atk) / MAudino : 252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 390-460 (95.1 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Diancie-M/ Arceus 252+ Atk Diancie-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 97-115 (21.8 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Diancie-M / Giratina : 252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 536-632 (106.3 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Diancie-M / Zygarde-C : 252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 576-678 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
MMX (Photon Geyser) / Arceus : 252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
MMX (Low Kick) / Arceus : 252 Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 662-782 (149 - 176.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
MMX (Sunsteel) / MAudino : 252 Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 356-420 (86.8 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
MMX (Sunsteel +Atk) / MAudino : 252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 390-460 (95.1 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Diancie-M/ Arceus 252+ Atk Diancie-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 97-115 (21.8 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Well, this is the end of the explanations about the set, thank you for reading and I hope you'll add it on the setpedia.
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Is this all of the pokemon?Originally ran by Ransei
ORAS EDITION
Art by BlueberryBlanket
Welcome to the Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings. This is one of the many resources made to help players determine what can be considered viable in the metagame. These rankings are placed in Viability order from S to A ranks and then alphabetical order forward. Anyone is free to put their thoughts on any Pokémon and debate on whether or not they need a rank change as long as they are being reasonable.
Provide clear evidence for reasons why a Pokémon should have a change in rank, and be civil about it. We want what we can believe to be closer to fact than subjective opinions. ALSO, POKEMON THAT ARE UNRANKED AND NOMINATED REQUIRE REPLAYS TO BE RANKED.
Explanation for No Guard and Wonder Guard icons:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3650569/page-2#post-8705200
S Rank
S+
Wonder Guard
SIce Weak Wonder Guards are ranked due to their ability to wall most offensive Pokemon bar Mold Breaker and No Guard users. However, because they are weak to Sheer Cold and are therefore vulnerable to No Guard users, they usually should be run with either 2 other non-Ice weak Wonder Guards or an offensive Shadow Tag user such as Regigigas, Slaking. or Mewtwo Mega X with a Choice Scarf.
S Rank
S
Xerneas
Audino-Mega
Kyogre-Primal
A Rank
A+
Blissey
Slaking
Beedrill-Mega
Deoxys-Attack
Arceus
A
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
Scizor-Mega
A-
Escavalier
Gengar-Mega
Gardevoir-Mega
Manectric-Mega
Sableye-Mega
A reminder that after this point pokemon are ranked alphabetically.
B Rank
B+
Cresselia
Deoxys-Speed
Groudon-Primal
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Skuntank
Swampert-Mega
B
Dusclops
Ferrothorn
Lucario-Mega
Ludicolo
Mewtwo-Mega-X
B-
Drapion
Ho-Oh
Landorus-Therian
Rotom-Fan
Talonflame
Thundurus
Volcarona
C Rank
C+
Ditto
Gyarados
Hoopa-Unbound
Landorus
Mismagius
Shuckle
Thundurus-Therian
C
Lopunny-Mega
Kyurem-White
Registeel
Skarmory
Wobbuffet
C-
Blaziken-Mega
Dialga
Galvantula
View attachment 495910 Genesect
Gengar @ Gengarite
Metagross-Mega
Palkia
Reshiram
Sableye @ Sablenite
Volcanion
???
The Supremely Outclassed (Also known as the Shadow Realm)
This is all the remaining Pokémon who hold the same or similar set of weaknesses as an individual Pokémon above ??? rank. They are either fully outclassed or do not have strong enough merits to escape from ??? rank. These Pokémon can be used and players may find success with them, but they bring minimal to no value above the Pokémon ranked higher on the Wonder Guard Viability Rankings. This does not apply to all other Pokémon simply because plenty have critical combinations of weaknesses that render them unusable with Wonder Guard and several have combined weaknesses that can be worked with but require a significant amount of support to such an extent that they fall below ??? Rank. In summary, these pokemon are in theory above D rank but in actual play should nearly never be used.
Examples of Pokémon who fit under ??? Rank
Furret (Incredibly outclassed by Arceus and many other pure Normal-types)
Floette-Eternal (Incredibly outclassed by Xerneas & Audino-mega )
Seismitoad (Incredibly outclassed by Swampert-Mega)
Surskit (Incredibly outclassed by Gyarados @ Gyaradosite)
Giratina
A Rank
A+
Mewtwo-Mega-X
Gyarados-Mega
Chansey
Rayquaza-Mega
Groudon-Primal
A
Diancie-Mega
No Guard
S Rank
S+
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
S
Mewtwo-Mega-X
A
Gengar-Mega
Lopunny-Mega
Arceus
Mega-Aerodactyl
Deoxys-Speed
A reminder that after this point pokemon are ranked alphabetically.
B
Alakazam-Mega
Beedrill-Mega
Deoxys-Attack
Manectric-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
C
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Latios-Mega
Slaking
Regigigas
Gengar-Mega
A-
Latios-Mega
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
A Reminder that after this point pokemon are ranked alphabetically
B Rank
B+
Arceus
Xerneas
B
Dialga
Zekrom
B-
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Metagross-Mega
Tyranitar-Mega
C Rank
C+
Abomasnow-Mega
Aegislash
Giratina-Origin
Kyurem-Black
Lugia
Yveltal
C
Kyogre-Primal
Pidgeot-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
C-
Ho-Oh
Registeel
Venusaur-Mega
Kyurem-White
Or y'know, the ones they didn't forget about.
Are you thinking of a precise Mon or not ?
Aerodactyl-mega right off the bat, but there's also no mention of imposter blissey (scarf, plates, goggles), Deo-A, Mega-Slowbro, Or mega-heracross.
No one "forgot" to rank anything, besides Blissey which is fair since it's not that much worse than Imposter Chansey. I think the misconception here's that every Pokemon you could conceivably viably run has to be ranked on the VR, when that's not necessarily the case (otherwise we'd have an incredibly bloated list of mons that eventually stops being meaningful once you go low enough). I'm talking mons like non-No Guard/WG Mega Absol/Cresselia/Mega Gardevoir/Mega Steelix that have been run to reasonable success in the past but aren't worth running in the great majority of situations. Deo-A is worse than MMX/MMY at essentially everything it wants to do, Slowbro's impossible to justify except on hard stall which is terrible anyway, and Heracross is mostly outclassed by Chesnaught which is already fringe enough to be unranked. Personally I can see Slowbro getting ranked if people present a strong enough case though.
does this have a vr for items (gen 6)ORAS Pure Hackmons
Leader(s): Bahamut, NToTheN
Council: Bahamut, Mbouchon, NToTheN
Resources:
Solving ORAS Hackmons by berry
Introduction to Gen 6 Pure Hackmons by CHORUME
Mechanical Differences in between Generations by Jellicent
ORAS Hackmons: Metagame Trends Part 1 and Part 2 by Mbouchon
Arceus Guide by Ransei
Sample Teams:
Deer Squad Redux Spam by Mbouchon
Dual Mold + Gengar-Mega WonderGuard by Shays Fate
Dual MMX Offense by Bahamut and Mbouchon
Protean + STAG PDon Offense by NToTheN
HUGE POWER SPAM by Bahamut and Mbouchon
Cotton Guard Rayquaza + WG Gengar + Abomasnow Bulky Offense by Mbouchon
Triple Wonder Guard Offense with Rotom-Fan by Bahamut
Mold Breaker Diancie Bulky Offense by Mbouchon
Scarf No Guard Aerodactyl-Mega and Dread Plate Arceus Balance by NToTheN
Bulky Beedrill Offense by NToTheN
Dual Xerneas Hyper Offense by WrathoftheLeopard
Wonderguard MMX + Huge power MMX + Imposter offense by Mbouchon
Other Resources:
Viability Rankings
Ability Viability Rankings
Setpedia
Wonder Guard Setpedia
Speed Tiers
Threatlist
Wonder Guard Weakness Severity Rankings
FAQ:/tour new gen6purehackmons, elim
/tour setautostart 7
/tour autodq 3
Q: Why is there an EV limit?
A: In Generation 6, it's impossible to play in local matches with other players if the total amount of EVs on one of your Pokémon is above 510, regardless of whether it's legal or not.
Q: Are sample submissions open? How do I submit a sample team?
A: Yes just submit submissions by posting them with a description in this forum.[/user]
For M-Slowbro, I think it's viable with fur coat or imposter as a MMX check, it resists both MMX stabs and Sunsteel, the only really dangerous attack (besides strange sets or strange multi attack)used on MMX is Moongeist so M-Slowbro might be a better check to MMX than steelix in my opinion.
This discussion is about gen 6
Oh right, because of the art I thought it was the gen 7, I didn't checked the VR, sorry I'm dumb.
https://pokepast.es/6ed5cf2dcf975dce
So I decided to do some... research and testing in Gen 3. Which lead me to the idea of a full on Gen 7 style spam team. Slaking is very threatening and the belly drum set can demolish entire teams with sub and speed boost. So I set about making a team designed around speed and efficiency. If belly drum slaking is the most threatening thing around then I need something that can remain deadly to non-slaking threats while blitzing belly drum slaking teams and stopping them from setting up effectively. To that effect this team has 4 banded slakings to cripple as much of the enemy as possible. Using aero as a lead to kill jask and pivot as well as a BD slaking for wincon, this team is decent
So I decided to do some... research and testing in Gen 3. Which lead me to the idea of a full on Gen 7 style spam team. Slaking is very threatening and the belly drum set can demolish entire teams with sub and speed boost. So I set about making a team designed around speed and efficiency. If belly drum slaking is the most threatening thing around then I need something that can remain deadly to non-slaking threats while blitzing belly drum slaking teams and stopping them from setting up effectively. To that effect this team has 4 banded slakings to cripple as much of the enemy as possible. Using aero as a lead to kill jask and pivot as well as a BD slaking for wincon, this team is decent
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