Resource GSC Simple Question, Simple Answer Thread

jus said:
Been trying to get into GSC teambuilding recently when I came across some funny moltres calcs vs some of the popular mons in the tier (like being able to almost 2hko lax under sun) and then saw he's like c rank on the viability rankings. What does this guy even do to put him so low? He seems like the type of mon that once you get some good chip off on the opposing mons he sweeps really quickly with his sunny day + fire blast so I'm kinda curious why he isn't higher/used more often?View attachment 591186
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Yes, as others have said, it doesn't have coverage to deal with the checks that resist it. Even in a good team matchup, it still needs to spend a turn setting up sun to realize its full potential, and even then its matchups against Zapdos and Snorlax never ascend past "complicated, but favorable".
 
From one hand you have great pokemon with Curse set like Snorlax or Tyranitar.

But the problem is that curse leave offen weak to revenge kill , especially the special attacker one.

So i thaught that sword danse could be better , with pokemon like Marowak . or even using Baton pass link with fast mon like Scizor or Smergle.
But in this case your team should be 100% around this idea.

Curse seems more easier to pull. But is it really the best in OU GSC ?
 
Curse is the setup move with broad distribution. It's not so much that it's the best, rather, it's usually the best available.

Pokemon with access to Swords Dance usually suffer from poor movepool or stats. The two Pokemon most capable of making it work are Marowak and Tentacruel, but they both have some rather glaring weaknesses holding them back from being GSC staples.

Growth is also a powerful setup option available to the Eeveelutions and Venusaur. This can also be passed with Baton Pass.

However, I would say that setup moves are less effective than ever in today's GSC. GSC offense at the highest level is all about wallbreakers with good attacking coverage backed up with Spikes support. And the insta-kill button that is Explosion, of course. Spending a turn to set up is essentially just giving your opponent a free turn to switch in a check to force you out.
 
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Are there any well known Lax-less teams that are entirely viable? The only thing I really know about GSC is that lax is "mandatory" to have on a team, but is that really 100% true?
 
So I know HP Legends ban used to be a thing in the olden days. Do we have an article (or some other resource) about its history and when the ban was repealed?
 
Karxrida said:
So I know HP Legends ban used to be a thing in the olden days. Do we have an article (or some other resource) about its history and when the ban was repealed?
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I think some of the original threads may be lost to time / the 2007 purge, but this thread did survive https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/concerning-the-ban-on-hp-legendaries.18523/
I'm not familiar with articles being written, even perusing the old metagame hub pages didn't reveal anything, although something may exist in the C&C archives.

This decision was likely largely done offsite, either on Netbattle, IRC, or elsewhere.

MDragon or Jorgen may be a bit more familiar, but the amount of people from that era is quickly dwindling
 
The most recent official Smogon Tour round to feature GSC (and which explicitly published rules banning HP Legends) seems to have been this from 2007: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/season-5-week-9-gsc-2-won-by-fear.19023/ Funnily enough, Fear won it :) Sometimes I forget he was at this long before I got started, because he went on to kick ass long after I retired.

For some reason my brain wanted to put the lifting of the ban at 2009. This thread seems to indicate it was still around at the beginning of that year: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/why-is-hp-on-legendaries-banned-in-gsc.50695/

However, that is probably not accurate. I think the decision might've actually been made in a thread or discussion somewhere about whether it would be allowed for the first SPL (which had signups in April 2010, began play in May 2010). They definitely were allowed for that first SPL, by the way, as this playlist of matches can attest:


I'm not sure where to find that discussion, unfortunately. The best historical throughline I can find for when the ruleset had "officially" changed, which lines up with the "changed for SPL" theory, is this:

gorgie posts an interest probe thread for a tournament featuring GSC in March 2010. In it, HP Legends are explicitly banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-tournament-interested.68159/

Then, a few months later, the actual signups for that tournament posted in June 2010 say they're allowed now due to recent changes to official tournament rules! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-sign-ups.72663/

This would be honored in the first round of the tournament posted days later: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-round-1.72807/

I want to say Pokemon Online allowing it may have contributed, too, but that might be bad chronology because I think GSC support on PO only really took off a year later. Alas, PO only has a couple patchy snapshots on the Wayback Machine remaining, so those records are pretty much lost.

Anyway, yeah, enough rambling. All signs point to them being officially unbanned by Smogon for the start of SPL 1 in April/May of 2010. It'd be cool if somebody smarter could post a more direct source for that than my guesswork though.
 
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Oglemi said:
I think some of the original threads may be lost to time / the 2007 purge, but this thread did survive https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/concerning-the-ban-on-hp-legendaries.18523/
I'm not familiar with articles being written, even perusing the old metagame hub pages didn't reveal anything, although something may exist in the C&C archives.

This decision was likely largely done offsite, either on Netbattle, IRC, or elsewhere.

MDragon or Jorgen may be a bit more familiar, but the amount of people from that era is quickly dwindling
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Jorgen said:
The most recent official Smogon Tour round to feature GSC (and which explicitly published rules banning HP Legends) seems to have been this from 2007: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/season-5-week-9-gsc-2-won-by-fear.19023/ Funnily enough, Fear won it :) Sometimes I forget he was at this long before I got started, because he went on to kick ass long after I retired.

For some reason my brain wanted to put the lifting of the ban at 2009. This thread seems to indicate it was still around at the beginning of that year: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/why-is-hp-on-legendaries-banned-in-gsc.50695/

However, that is probably not accurate. I think the decision might've actually been made in a thread or discussion somewhere about whether it would be allowed for the first SPL (which had signups in April 2010, began play in May 2010). They definitely were allowed for that first SPL, by the way, as this playlist of matches can attest:


I'm not sure where to find that discussion, unfortunately. The best historical throughline I can find for when the ruleset had "officially" changed, which lines up with the "changed for SPL" theory, is this:

gorgie posts an interest probe thread for a tournament featuring GSC in March 2010. In it, HP Legends are explicitly banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-tournament-interested.68159/

Then, a few months later, the actual signups for that tournament posted in June 2010 say they're allowed now due to recent changes to official tournament rules! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-sign-ups.72663/

This would be honored in the first round of the tournament posted days later: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-round-1.72807/

I want to say Pokemon Online allowing it may have contributed, too, but that might be bad chronology because I think GSC support on PO only really took off a year later. Alas, PO only has a couple patchy snapshots on the Wayback Machine remaining, so those records are pretty much lost.

Anyway, yeah, enough rambling. All signs point to them being officially unbanned by Smogon for the start of SPL 1 in April/May of 2010. It'd be cool if somebody smarter could post a more direct source for that than my guesswork though.
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Thanks a ton for these looks into the past. Also, really funny seeing a couple names like MrE who are still around lol.
 
Hello,

I wanted to ask about the potential of sandstorm over toxic, the 1/8th damage on non-rock, ground, and steel types seem promising, but it seems hard to fit with other moves. Say, in a move slot where you could choose between Toxic and Sandstorm, would Toxic always be the better option?
 
Falcon-M said:
Hello,

I wanted to ask about the potential of sandstorm over toxic, the 1/8th damage on non-rock, ground, and steel types seem promising, but it seems hard to fit with other moves. Say, in a move slot where you could choose between Toxic and Sandstorm, would Toxic always be the better option?
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No - sandstorm can let you break (by making near 3hkos into 3hkos), often run on nidoking as it lets you get through zapdos or snorlax with 3 ice beams/eqs respectively. while toxic forces rest better, it can't copy the ability of sandstorm to push some attacks over the edge (because you don't take toxic damage while asleep.

If you want to check out sandstorm teams, fear brought one similar to this https://pokepast.es/ec0ea763e3e89f5e vs tonyflygon in gsc cup, and hellpowna had a post about it somewhere on the forums here (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gsc-ou-discussion-thread.3688141/post-9801632)
 
suicune has fallen out of the meta recently and ive asked about this recently in gsc discord and most people said that defensive stall suicune is pretty mid, but have any offensive suicune sets/teams come out? ik mirror coat is a thing, but that can be gimmicky at best?
 
Is there anywhere that I can find a list of event distribution Pokemon for gen 2? Serebii and other older sites I know of don't go that far back, and Bulbapedia only has Japanese events and international celebis. I'm asking because belly drum quagsire and encore donphan are from the same event, but encore donphan is not allowed due to being Japanese exclusive. Was belly drum wooper distributed internationally separately? If so, where can this be verified? I tried quite a few Pokemon and only donphan seems to be excluded

edited_Screenshot_20240525_174804_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20240525_174620_Chrome.jpg
 
Erfder said:
Is there anywhere that I can find a list of event distribution Pokemon for gen 2? Serebii and other older sites I know of don't go that far back, and Bulbapedia only has Japanese events and international celebis. I'm asking because belly drum quagsire and encore donphan are from the same event, but encore donphan is not allowed due to being Japanese exclusive. Was belly drum wooper distributed internationally separately? If so, where can this be verified? I tried quite a few Pokemon and only donphan seems to be excluded

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List of PCNY event Pokémon distributions (Generation II) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia (bulbagarden.net)

Thank you Bughouse
 
I got a question regarding Flareon.

The Eevee Bill gives you in Goldenrod comes at level 20
1721973033082.png


But Flareon learns Ember as a Flareon at level 16 via level-up.
1721973091274.png


Eevee has Growl instead as a level 16 level-up move.
1721973141514.png


Since you are given Eevee, not Flareon, it has Growl instead of Ember (or any other special move for the other evolutions).
1721973283409.png


Does this mean that Ember is just completely unobtainable on Flareon (or the other special moves for the other evolutions for that matter), unless you breed another Eevee and evolve it before level 16 since there is no move reminder in gen 2 yet?
 
pe5e said:
I got a question regarding Flareon.

The Eevee Bill gives you in Goldenrod comes at level 20
View attachment 651396

But Flareon learns Ember as a Flareon at level 16 via level-up.
View attachment 651397

Eevee has Growl instead as a level 16 level-up move.
View attachment 651398

Since you are given Eevee, not Flareon, it has Growl instead of Ember (or any other special move for the other evolutions).
View attachment 651399

Does this mean that Ember is just completely unobtainable on Flareon (or the other special moves for the other evolutions for that matter), unless you breed another Eevee and evolve it before level 16 since there is no move reminder in gen 2 yet?
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Nope, if you defeat Pokémon Stadium 2's Elite 4 + Champion, you can actually re-learn previously unavailable moves, which includes Flareon's Ember.
 
does anybody know of a lax less tournament of gsc ou with replays? i know it has been played but i cannot find any replays or teams or usage statistics
 
Tytar4Days said:
does anybody know of a lax less tournament of gsc ou with replays? i know it has been played but i cannot find any replays or teams or usage statistics
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Try using the fullifegames scouter and searching Zokuru. He might have a replay with no Snorlax.


randomperson3277292349875 said:
question: why is enti considered to be so much worse than rakiou in OU GSC?
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Raikou is faster than Zapdos and can check it, essentially giving the #2 Pokémon in the tier a run for its money. Raikou is also a very powerful wincon once ground pokemon are out of the way. Essentially it's an amazing hybrid of offense and defense.

Entei is neither a check to Zapdos nor Snorlax and has a terrible defensive typing, taking high damage from Ground, Normal, Electric, Water without dealing a significant number back. It's also hard checked by Snorlax or by Tyranitar.
 
Falcon-M said:
Hello,

I wanted to ask about the potential of sandstorm over toxic, the 1/8th damage on non-rock, ground, and steel types seem promising, but it seems hard to fit with other moves. Say, in a move slot where you could choose between Toxic and Sandstorm, would Toxic always be the better option?
Click to expand...
It depends what you're trying to do. The short answer would be 'yes' Toxic is always a better option, but given the right conditions you can make sand work. Consider that if you have a handful of rock, ground or steel types on your team, that would potentially enable you to move around and not take sand damage more than your opponent and, unlike with toxic, you can deal damage to multiple targets with the click of one button.

I've only seen Omastar use Surf and Sandstorm semi-successfully to check a sleeping Snorlax. It could be worth exploring. You can read more about that here
 
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