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Time to artificially rise Bibarel's usage. - Tauntarel

How didn't I notice the Taunt+Super Fang combo before. Bibarel, the almighty wall-breaker! I'm so going to use it, even without any traits.

Jesus Christ Bologo, you deserve a medal for that.


ohwait
 
IMO it's just not the right time in the metagame to use this, considering every damn team and their moms have like Garchomp/Tyranitar/Lucario/Gengar as it's base of offense, this Birarel won't be doing much...
 
Well Super Fang will still do a number to Lucario/Ttar/Garchomp on the switch in. Lucario mostly uses LO and wont like only being able to use 5 attacks before it expires instead of 10 since it leaves very little room for misprediction. Garchomp also wont like this, even if it is a scarf/band version since it can then be Ko'ed a lot easier. Plus taunt will prevent Lucario and Chomp from Sd'ing.
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
You mean it didn't make sense nine months ago that Taunt allows Super Fang to cripple walls by prohibiting their recovery moves? Taunt screws up walls, Super Fang tears through them; I thought that was apparent...
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I could reply with any number of things but I'll just ask: if it was so apparent why didn't you think of it and post it the second you registered?

ultimifier is right—I'm sorry for not adding much to this thread but you've found a pretty good way to get on my shit list, and if anything this is a clear and open warning to those of you who don't see why his last two posts can upset an Analysis Writer that what he's posted is indeed a horrible idea.
 
I am sorry that I came off as an ass in my comments. I had assumed that the workings of Taunt and Super Fang were common knowledge among experienced battlers. Considering what they both do to walls, putting 2 and 2 together and using them in the same set only makes sense. (I was a newb to competitive battling when I registered, thus I could not have made that connection.)

Of course, in ADV the only natural user of Super Fang and Taunt was Raticate--who pretty much fails at life, as far as I'm concerned. I can't blame someone for not seeing that if it wasn't viable on the only thing that used it. (Smeargle had better things to do, anyway.)
 
I really don't think this looks too impressive, IMO. The metagame is too offensive for such low speed and mediocre defenses. Plus, it's no one's first instinct to send out a wall when a Bibarel gets sent out.
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
I really don't think this looks too impressive, IMO. The metagame is too offensive for such low speed and mediocre defenses. Plus, it's no one's first instinct to send out a wall when a Bibarel gets sent out.
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How would you know what anyone's first instinct is against Bibarel? Not like anyone actually uses it enough to know.

Nothing at all likes getting 50% of their health getting stripped off. Nobody said that walls were guaranteed to switch into Bibarel, but Bibarel can sure as hell switch into them.

If any of those offensive guys switches into a Yawn, they're in serious trouble, and if they switch into a Taunt, they're not nearly as threatening anymore.
 
Plus even if they dont switch in a wall like Bologo said, what pokemon enjoys losing 50% of it's health? Back this thing up with Spike/SR support and it will devastate any pokemon that switches in.
 
Bologo said:
How would you know what anyone's first instinct is against Bibarel? Not like anyone actually uses it enough to know.

Nothing at all likes getting 50% of their health getting stripped off. Nobody said that walls were guaranteed to switch into Bibarel, but Bibarel can sure as hell switch into them.

If any of those offensive guys switches into a Yawn, they're in serious trouble, and if they switch into a Taunt, they're not nearly as threatening anymore.
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I know MY first instinct would be to bring out something like Garchomp, and if you say that you'll use Super Fang to take off half its health, you might as well say Pachirisu is threatening.
 
You can always count on Bologo making some awesome new set that seems like everyone else should have thought of it before because it's awesome. Aside from your Ampharos set of course, this is one of your best yet.

Did you also consider removing the bulky aspect from this and giving it focus sash instead? Nobody knows what to switch into the beaver, so chances are that they'll switch in their attacker as a free chance to set up. That's already covered with Yawn, but why not stay in and get another super fang off, thusly completely crippling the opponent's pokemon without taking up sleep clause. Or if it's already in effect then Bibarel will be able to do almost nothing to choiced pokemon if it has leftovers. I know this set is for wall breaking, but imo sash makes it more versatile.
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
I am sorry that I came off as an ass in my comments. I had assumed that the workings of Taunt and Super Fang were common knowledge among experienced battlers. Considering what they both do to walls, putting 2 and 2 together and using them in the same set only makes sense. (I was a newb to competitive battling when I registered, thus I could not have made that connection.)

Of course, in ADV the only natural user of Super Fang and Taunt was Raticate--who pretty much fails at life, as far as I'm concerned. I can't blame someone for not seeing that if it wasn't viable on the only thing that used it. (Smeargle had better things to do, anyway.)
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When the analysis was written, D/P was all offense. If you were around actually playing, you'd have known that there weren't enough walls around for the combo to be effective enough of the time.
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
I know MY first instinct would be to bring out something like Garchomp, and if you say that you'll use Super Fang to take off half its health, you might as well say Pachirisu is threatening.
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Well you said it would be NO ONE'S first instinct to send out a wall. If it's your first instinct, well then that's you, and not everyone is you.

About your Pachirisu comment, Pachirisu can't Yawn, and sure as hell doesn't have the great abilities that Bibarel has, so no, I won't say that Pachirisu is threatening.

If you bring out Garchomp, it either has to face sleep which shuts down any possible sweep it might have had, or it gets 50% stripped off, which leaves less subbing time. That or it gets Taunted, which means it can't set up.

@Calci:

This is really bad with Focus Sash. The point of the bulkiness is that it can come in more than once and do its thing. With Focus Sash, it only has once chance to do it, and once it's taken any damage, it's dead weight.
 
Once the traits get implemented, it will probably see a spike in usage, so don't fret.

I imagine that Bibarel is probably quite a contender in UU, and a lot more things are playable in OU than many standard-heads would dare to try. This Bibarel seems like it'd take a great amount of skill to properly use it in that environment, and not everyone on Smogon is actually good enough or experienced enough with lower tier Pokemon to pull that off.
 
SimChao said:
Once the traits get implemented, it will probably see a spike in usage, so don't fret.

I imagine that Bibarel is probably quite a contender in UU, and a lot more things are playable in OU than many standard-heads would dare to try. This Bibarel seems like it'd take a great amount of skill to properly use it in that environment, and not everyone on Smogon is actually good enough or experienced enough with lower tier Pokemon to pull that off.
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Well, this isn't as hard to use as it looks.

Basically come in on something that can't do much damage to you (wall, or resisted attack or stat-uppers if Unaware works), then if you came in on a wall, Taunt so it can't recover and Fang til you can kill it. That, or just put it to sleep. If you know it's going to switch out, just choose between Yawn/Super Fang, whichever you feel would be best.

This Bibarel is mostly there to force and punish switches with Super Fang and Yawn (SR support helps), but can break many of the popular walls quite easily with Taunt so they can't recover, and Super Fang to slice off 50% regardless of their defenses.

If you know they have a Ghost on their team, Taunt the inevitable switch-in if you know they can set up (something like Mismagius), or Yawn everything else. Once someone else gets rid of the Ghost, then start Super Fanging switch-ins.
 
this is real sexy. the problem is, what happens when sleep clause is activated? they send in someone after you've slept them, say, ddgyara. they dd, you fang, blah, blah,. they get to low health with say 2 or 3 dd's under their belt, kill bibarel, and then proceed to sweep the team.
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
I really don't think this looks too impressive, IMO. The metagame is too offensive for such low speed and mediocre defenses. Plus, it's no one's first instinct to send out a wall when a Bibarel gets sent out.
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it doesn't have to work that way round though. you can always just wait for the wall to come out first and then switch it out.
 
Wow. I now have found new faith in this little beaver. :)

I might make a new Shoddy team to test this. Has there been a set made for the Simple ability?
 
Stathakis said:
this is real sexy. the problem is, what happens when sleep clause is activated? they send in someone after you've slept them, say, ddgyara. they dd, you fang, blah, blah,. they get to low health with say 2 or 3 dd's under their belt, kill bibarel, and then proceed to sweep the team.
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Unaware means stat boosts are ignored, so thats not a problem. Also, if they take 50% on the switch, or get yawned, or get taunted, its crippled already.
 
With regards to Waterfall, is the extra 10 BP of Aqua Tail worth the 5(8) reduced PP in this case? The lynchpin of the offense is a 90% accurate attack. Why not use a 90% accurate attack with more BP than Waterfall?
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
With regards to Waterfall, is the extra 10 BP of Aqua Tail worth the 5(8) reduced PP in this case? The lynchpin of the offense is a 90% accurate attack. Why not use a 90% accurate attack with more BP than Waterfall?
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Well, there's always Waterfall's 20% flinch rate. And, as you mentioned, Waterfall is 100% accurate. I'd say that full accuracy alone is worth the slightly lower base power.
 
I'm trying this out thanks to this thread, it can work well (and you feel great when you pull it off) but often doesn't go according to plan...
 
Lord_Sunday said:
I'm trying this out thanks to this thread, it can work well (and you feel great when you pull it off) but often doesn't go according to plan...
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Heh, well nothing ever goes according to plan in an offensive metagame like this, especially with a lot of luck factors.

Mind you, this will go much much more according to plan once Unaware is born.
 
The set and the idea are creative, but in my honest opinion, I just don't see this working at all. However, you've said you've had success with it, so obviously my theorymon would give way to your battling experiences with it.

Nevertheless, I have to wonder about the experience of those battlers that you had success against. I'll be honest, I remember facing a Bibarel one time, and I expected Super Fang right away, so there was no surprise factor. Also, Super Fang + Taunt is nice...until you Super Fang / Taunt Gengar, who LO Focus Blasts you to oblivion.

Excluding the whole "this pokemon A beats pokemon B" argument, because it is a little too specific for me, generally speaking, I don't even see much potential outside of UU.

See, at 227 speed and defenses at 352 HP with 179 for the other two, you're either going to have to bring Bibarel in on a Ghost attack, a slower Pokemon's stat upping move (rare), or after one of your Pokemon have fainted. That alone severely limits the utility of a wall breaker, as most have better immunities / resistances (Levitate or Flying / Ghost types) or have impressive Speed (Infernape). Not only that, but you really have to predict EXTREMELY efficiently with Super Fang + Taunt with how Offensive the current metagame is. Sure, you might Super Fang Lucario / Garchomp / Infernape on the switch...but can you really afford to give them that free Swords Dance / Nasty Plot? Even with only 5 turns to attack (with Life Orb), if either of those get a free one in, you're in serious trouble.

Anyway, I really like the idea behind Super Fang + Taunt, I just wish it was on a Pokemon with superior Speed or more stability. Nonetheless, this set might be viable in the UU metagame.

If only it would be explored more in-depth...
 
Anyway, I really like the idea behind Super Fang + Taunt, I just wish it was on a Pokemon with superior Speed or more stability.
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Well Raticate certainly has superior speed, but sucks even more in the durability stakes, not to mention lack of Unaware and Yawn. The only real advantage I can think of is the ability to kill Gengar.
 
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