Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Darlington said:
I always thought that Tera was the problem with SV Ou but I was completely wrong. Tera is actually healthy but Tera Blast on the other hand, the more I look at it; I realized that it's really broken. It really flips the match and gives you a 80p stab which is stronger than hidden power was. I know people don't like Volc but I feel like Volc is a needed mon in Ou in my opinion. Volc is always going to be a very good powerful mon but never borderline broken until this Gen because of stab Tera Blast coverage like Espathra and Regieleki. I will love to see these 3 mons again in Ou if Tera Blast is banned. Having another Rapid Spin user, another Speed Boost mon which can help beat other booster energy paradox mons when it gets the chance to set up and Volc keeps the tier from going heckt. That's how I see things but that's just me. Just keep Tera and ban Tera Blast will be better. Other people may not see it that way and I fine with it. I understand.
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I agree but you're saying the quiet part out loud. We can argue for tera blast ban on its merits alone. Regileki being unbanned then is an uncontrovertial no-brainer. Volcarona can pass after that but don't use it as a selling point as it will turn the cheating ban-chain party against tera blast ban to begin with.

After that we could maybe push for stored power ban to free espartha and magearna. but tbh i don't want aspartame unbanned as long as tera+SP exist

And then the meta will be perfect.One step at a time.
 
littensalt said:
gonna beat frezai to the short video essay about this situation and title it “The Biggest Butterfly Effect In Competitive Pokemon”
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Nevermind didnt even have 10 minutes
 
Espathra is just outright not a problem without Tera Blast. It was Tera Blast letting it break Steel-type Pokemon that was the issue. It'd be a very hit-and-miss (moreso miss) match-up fish that requires a ton of support without Tera Blast around.
 
RainebowValiant said:
Most tera blast users are sweepers looking to remove checks to cheese 6-0s. I'm looking for common counterexamples.
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You are saying nothing right now. Who? Which ones?

Moyashi said:
It would never be fine with TB because even with the nerfed Transistor, it's still the world's most obnoxious pivot that just volt switches on everything until it cleans late game because all the grounds not named Ting-Lu can't block it.

This is not what Tera Blast is used for most of the time. Almost always, it just adds some annoying match up fishy element to the tier that just enables already dangerous pokemon to bypass would be counterplay. Just because a couple pokemon slot TB Ice for Gliscor doesn't mean it's a healthy or desirable element of the tier.
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I agree
 
LoseToRU? said:
If I didn't meme too hard and vote DNB as a joke Kyurem would be banned...
The vote was 74-51. If I voted Ban it would be 75-50 which is 60%.
I'm sure it's too late to request my vote be changed, and even if my vote is disqualified Kyurem still remains unbanned.

These unique circumstance let us see what the meta is like without the broken mon. I've seen in OU chat some players saying they were DNB but after playing without it they realize their error.
Could we possibly have a quick revote with everyone who qualified last time? No new suspect, just the same ppl with legit reqs voting again. Even as I type this though it sounds weird. But also we can't suspect the same mon 3 times in one gen; it reflects so poorly on the community- it's terrible optics and sets a horrible precedent for future tiering decisions. We could still technically just have two suspects; the timeframe isn't bad and we do have a scandal. Just call it Kyurem suspect version 2.1.
I feel bad for trolling. I can live w Kyu in the tier but knowing so many ppl wanted it banned and it's not slightly because of me feels wild lol. Thousands of games will be affected because I wanted to be funny. Not sure how to process that.
Please have a quick emergency revote, and then move onto Gliscor as planned. Just moving on when a mon is so contentious it survives with a single vote is insane. Perhaps something like this can be factored into future suspect tests: If the vote is a razor thing margin then the mon is retested, or banned for a week then retested. Ignoring the fact that these mons are barely surviving isn't working- it's not properly listening to the community when they speak with their votes.
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??? you have got to be kidding me. trolling in one of the closest suspect tests in this generation is nasty work, and i mean that in a very bad way. please do better
 
I`d like to see Tera Blast and Kingambit bans, but Gliscor ban seems impossible to me, how can stall exist without Gliscor? You want to suspect Fast SD sets, but defensive sets will also be banned
 
I know Finch said there were cheated votes in prior suspects but they didn't change the vote's result, but how close were they?

Also unban Volcarona, let us Moff.
 
ULTRA SPACE JAM said:
Finally... Kyurem is gone. Nature is healing.
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Well, scratch this, I guess. Looks like we're back to square one. As much as I dislike Kyurem's presence in the tier, and as mad as I am about the whole cheated votes thing, that's just life sometimes. Bad things happen, sure, but we just have to roll with it and make do. If we really want the tier to get better, we have to keep going. It'll take some time, especially considering how much this whole ordeal messed up, but that time will be well worth it. Doomposting about Kyurem and how the meta's "ruined" won't help. Actual discussion will. Please have some faith in the tier, even if everything's a mess right now.

As for the whole suspect situation, this is a perfect example of why it should be taken seriously. Every vote matters. Voting something as a joke can have some pretty big effects, despite the fact that it may seem like the opposite is true. What just happened is a perfect example of this. Had the person in question voted seriously, we would still be in a Kyurem-less metagame. I won't harp on more about that, though - I think we have better things to discuss.

Moving forward, I'm not sure where the tier will go next. Ideally, we're able to steer it in a better direction as we go on. If Kyurem remains controversial, then the possibility of a third suspect is a very real one. As for Tera Blast and a suspect for that, I have some pretty mixed feelings on the matter. It's honestly not been on my mind, but now that we're at a point where people are talking about it way more, I'll probably form a real opinion on the matter to talk about it. For now, though, I think I'll leave the discussion alone for a bit while I collect my thoughts a little more for another post.
 
ULTRA SPACE JAM said:
Well, scratch this, I guess. Looks like we're back to square one. As much as I dislike Kyurem's presence in the tier, and as mad as I am about the whole cheated votes thing, that's just life sometimes. Bad things happen, sure, but we just have to roll with it and make do. If we really want the tier to get better, we have to keep going. It'll take some time, especially considering how much this whole ordeal messed up, but that time will be well worth it. Doomposting about Kyurem and how the meta's "ruined" won't help. Actual discussion will. Please have some faith in the tier, even if everything's a mess right now.

As for the whole suspect situation, this is a perfect example of why it should be taken seriously. Every vote matters. Voting something as a joke can have some pretty big effects, despite the fact that it may seem like the opposite is true. What just happened is a perfect example of this. Had the person in question voted seriously, we would still be in a Kyurem-less metagame. I won't harp on more about that, though - I think we have better things to discuss.

Moving forward, I'm not sure where the tier will go next. Ideally, we're able to steer it in a better direction as we go on. If Kyurem remains controversial, then the possibility of a third suspect is a very real one. As for Tera Blast and a suspect for that, I have some pretty mixed feelings on the matter. It's honestly not been on my mind, but now that we're at a point where people are talking about it way more, I'll probably form a real opinion on the matter to talk about it. For now, though, I think I'll leave the discussion alone for a bit while I collect my thoughts a little more for another post.
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Every Vote Matters. #insertUSpoliticsreference MAKE SV OU GREAT AGAIN
 
KamenOH said:
I know Finch said there were cheated votes in prior suspects but they didn't change the vote's result, but how close were they?

Also unban Volcarona, let us Moff.
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I think if you were to go by the number of cheated votes in the Kyu suspect (~11) you can do some math with the previous suspect numbers. Like Gouging's 80+% ban votes may go to around 70% or so, if I had to guess. Obviously not entirely accurate because we don't know exactly if there were more or less cheaters in previous suspects but like Finch said it doesn't change their outcomes.
 
Roshino said:
We had a very... particular opportunity to experience the game with a "test-ban" of sorts.

Did anyone actually miss Kyurem at all? This was probably the change that made the game feel the smoothest to me afterward (excepting psychotic stuff like Terapagos).
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not really ?from the bit i saw the only real showdown youtuber out of like the 7 i watch wishing that kyurem wasnt banned was blimax, from what i learned a lotta dnb voters were mainly worried about what would happen in the future, HO users were worried about zapkinglu spam, stall users were worried kyurem ban means gliscor ban which means stall is SUPER fucked over especially with only 8 pp recovers, a lotta people didnt MISS kyurem per-say, in my opinion they were just worried about what mon would get banned as a result
 
KamenOH said:
I know Finch said there were cheated votes in prior suspects but they didn't change the vote's result, but how close were they?

Also unban Volcarona, let us Moff.
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They have no idea. I soppose they may have cross references those 11 users on previous votes and calculated the ban percentage outcome assuming they cheated then- if they did that much. I assume only going back so far. But I'm not aware of if showdown attaches IP addresses in a way that they can check users being legit or not. I assume that's not the method this was discovered by if so why only now use it?

RainebowValiant said:
Every Vote Matters. #insertUSpoliticsreference MAKE SV OU GREAT AGAIN
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Don't try to replace daddybuzzhole plz

Edited in a page later, I expect thread lock incoming. No one can be serious.
 
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peepeepoopoo722 said:
They have no idea. I soppose they may have cross references those 11 users on previous votes and calculated the ban percentage outcome assuming they cheated then- if they did that much. I assume only going back so far. But I'm not aware of if showdown attaches IP addresses in a way that they can check users being legit or not. I assume that's not the method this was discovered by if so why only now use it?


Don't try to replace daddybuzzhole plz
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TF YOU MEAN BRO WHAT
 
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All I'm going to say is that the team i was labbing to great success and refinement has immediately dipped off the cliff due to the resurgence of the icy devil. I was actually having immense fun with the tier with Kyu gone (and dare I say, wasn't even bothered by Gilscor) but the fact Gilscor stays with Kyu once again smothering any mon that dares to be ground or ice weak makes me want to start drinking.

methinks its time for a break cuz jesus christ the demoralization lol
 
on another note:has there been any confirmed “reaction”(idk a better word) for kyurem?like has anyone decided we’re reretesting with an entirely new vote, or will it be left in the air for a while?
 
LoseToRU? said:
I legit had no clue. I saw the mountain of likes on stupid posts but figured that was the usual flock and 95% of them weren't going to get reqs anyway. Every player I respect on the ladder and in the OU room was saying ban. All the ppl I played on my reqs run said pls vote ban.
I tried harder than a lot of people, most people, to get that mon deleted, and after writing lord knows how many paragraphs I wanted to have a little fun with the whole thing. Writing multiple serious persuasive essays on the subject wasn't fun. It felt unnecessary sometimes- redundant. idk. Why are these mons surviving? I plead insanity bro y'all got me twisted lol. I sorta see why the dude cheated lowkey. He was trying to put this meta on his back. Totally misguided but damn at least I know I'm not the only one confused about why players are voting DNB on unhealthy pieces in our game.
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If you got tired of seeing likes on "stupid posts", imagine how tiring it is to see someone voting opposite what they want to just to supposedly be funny. And it's not even funny.
 
littensalt said:
on another note:has there been any confirmed “reaction”(idk a better word) for kyurem?like has anyone decided we’re reretesting with an entirely new vote, or will it be left in the air for a while?
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I mean they had another suspect in the works for a bit, so they'll probably deal with that first, but if kyurem proves to be an immediate issue and there's a lot of calls for a suspect they'll probably do kyurem first.

Even still, it's gonna be a while before we have another suspect because the OU heads need to redo some pretty big parts of the suspect system and regain trust in the process.
 
Cyber-DJ said:
Finch mentioned that the next test is Gliscor, but that'll have to wait thanks to Ky*rem getting unbanned
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Finchinator said next suspect test was going to be Gliscor on Monday, assuming Kyurem vote was real but it wasn't so council is gonna wait a bit for Kyurem to re-enter the meta, and observe what happens / observe community input in order to figure out next best course of action
 
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