Pinkacross made a pretty interesting video with a Blaziken team on high ladder. That's probably why.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
What arguments if the person being talked about voted the opposite of what he thought for fun?
It's one person. Make better arguments and convince two or more people, or maybe two or more people that feel strongly about it can vote. If the vote was so tight that it depended on literally not one person flipping opinions for whatever reason, then the vote was not so sure. You just chose a player to use as a scapegoat because the wanted outcome didn't happen, which is not cool.
I mean, they did vote the opposite of what they thought. It's not a scapegoat to say "hey, this guy could've kept Kyurem banned but didn't because he wanted to troll", although all of the blame should definitely not fall on him.
Maybe a bit of youtube syndrome like other people mentioned, but blaziken is not completely useless.
If you can get rid of enemy speed control and weaken some of its checks, blaziken is a nice late game sweeper that just needs 1 turn to setup and can get kills that val couldn't, for example ghold without having to use tera yourself
Idc whether Kyurem gets banned or not, I care about the people who get suspect reqs taking their task seriously.
I don't need a scapegoat, if anything I'm happy Kyurem is back, although I don't feel strongly either way, but his behaviour was still reprehensible.
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Saying this as someone who got reqs and and got affected by this "joke" vote, let's move on shall we? The guy admitted his mistake(which he honestly deserves probs for) and justifiably got clowned on but there is no need to discuss this further anymore. Even though I was absolutely furious that Kyurem ended up being unbanned because of a "joke", I still didn't want to reveal who it was despite knowing, because I forsaw that this guy would get harassed. There is still a bit of anger in me left and I won't apologize for my initial outburst but I am kinda over it right now. If you hate what is currently happening, take a break, however long you need. I am very passionate about mons(and I hate that some ppl undermine ppls passions as "just a game" like they have never been passionate about something before) but I realize that mons and competitive gamings just take a real toll on your mental and you sometimes just take it too far. Try to reduce your time in online spaces in general and clear yourself of all the toxic things that your mind absorbs. Things like social media just magnify the worst in human behavior. I am taking a break from mons too right now. Not sure if I will have the time or energy to climb the ladder like I used to but I will see.
ausma and staff I wanna say I apprecciate everything you guys do. I know you guys always get shit flung on your way from all kinds of ppl. Despite it just being a hobby, you are treating everything here with a lot dedication and I respect that. I don't agree with every decisions or opinions you guys have and find some things on smogon to be a little too unflexible but I know you can't just pass every decisions like a king would and there is more to everything then meets the eye . I also appreciate that you guys help out lower skilled players too.
Also if there is anything positive that the cheating scandal brought, it would be showing us how flawed the current reqs system is. The staff should first focus on security of course but I feel like the questions shouldn't end there. We shouldn't be just asking "how did they cheat" but also "why did they cheat"? If you see the list of cheaters, most of them are proven tournament players that have topped ladder at one point or another. Getting reqs should have been easy for them and we would be kidding ourselves if we think otherwise so why did they feel the need to do it? I am reminded of Zios post here, who described going through lowladder frustrating. I am pretty sure a lot of prominent players share that sentiment. There was also another poster here(I think he is also prominent player?) who described our current process as "Just grinding and not actually testing competence". I would like to refer to a post I made previously that state some possible solutions that make suspect test less frustrating. The biggest hurdles of a suspect test that should serve as a competence test was never any number like gxe or elo. It was simply quality time and how much we need to spend of it. We really need to consider that we should value quality over quantity and also give competent players some breathing room so they can also have a live outside mons.
You guys don't have to implement it immediately or even in the near future but the fact that competent and proven players felt the need to cheat really does raise the question if just raising the numbers we currently have is that effective or if we could do this more efficiently.
ausma and staff I wanna say I apprecciate everything you guys do. I know you guys always get shit flung on your way from all kinds of ppl. Despite it just being a hobby, you are treating everything here with a lot dedication and I respect that. I don't agree with every decisions or opinions you guys have and find some things on smogon to be a little too unflexible but I know you can't just pass every decisions like a king would and there is more to everything then meets the eye . I also appreciate that you guys help out lower skilled players too.
Also if there is anything positive that the cheating scandal brought, it would be showing us how flawed the current reqs system is. The staff should first focus on security of course but I feel like the questions shouldn't end there. We shouldn't be just asking "how did they cheat" but also "why did they cheat"? If you see the list of cheaters, most of them are proven tournament players that have topped ladder at one point or another. Getting reqs should have been easy for them and we would be kidding ourselves if we think otherwise so why did they feel the need to do it? I am reminded of Zios post here, who described going through lowladder frustrating. I am pretty sure a lot of prominent players share that sentiment. There was also another poster here(I think he is also prominent player?) who described our current process as "Just grinding and not actually testing competence". I would like to refer to a post I made previously that state some possible solutions that make suspect test less frustrating. The biggest hurdles of a suspect test that should serve as a competence test was never any number like gxe or elo. It was simply quality time and how much we need to spend of it. We really need to consider that we should value quality over quantity and also give competent players some breathing room so they can also have a live outside mons.
You guys don't have to implement it immediately or even in the near future but the fact that competent and proven players felt the need to cheat really does raise the question if just raising the numbers we currently have is that effective or if we could do this more efficiently.
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What is going on with this tier? I leave because the tier is in an undesirable position and I am dissatisfied, I come back and it has mildly improved, and then this? The condition of the tier is too chaotic even for my standard, and that bar is high. I am not one to usually complain and groan without offering a solution anymore, but I straight up have nothing. Literally nothing, I have had nothing. Banning Kyurem would have been a positive first step in the right direction by removing one more volatile threat which hurt team diversity, but now we are back at square one. Potentially looking at... Gliscor? Kingambit? Tera Blast? I cannot be the only one confused by this. I feel like we took a major step back and it was totally avoidable. I know generational power creep and terastalization as a mechanic were unprecedented, but what happened? This community as a whole split while the generation was maturing, and I do not think it has been entirely beneficial. I feel like the product of whatever you would consider the smogon-version of divorce here. Do not get me wrong, you made progress by banning Gouging Fire, but how do you move past obvious regression?
What about Ogerpon-Wellsping? Raging Bolt? Darkrai? This is starting to feel like an impossible threat knotball to untie. I do not know if I could call it broken-checks-broken, but it is something like that. I would say we have a problem, but at this point I am just a spectator that occasionally says something. You, the active community, have a problem. If fraudulent voting has anything to say about the health of this tier, it is not good. I am not shaming any one individual or part of the community; I would be just as upset with the outcome of the suspect test if Kyurem remained banned but we knew there was tampering. This is starting to feel like a circus, and we are all riding the merry-go-round.
You cannot expect any order following news like this, I get that. You would not shame someone for having a strong reaction to a surprising or disrespectful action, the same will apply here. That does not make it right, but you can understand it and move from there toward a better and more permanent solution. I just wish there was a bit more conclusiveness, less confusion and divisiveness. Watching this thread is practically therapy for me at this point, it is starting to remind me more of a broken relationship than a tier.
That aside, good luck with all your chaos. I will be dipping out again. Peace.
What about Ogerpon-Wellsping? Raging Bolt? Darkrai? This is starting to feel like an impossible threat knotball to untie. I do not know if I could call it broken-checks-broken, but it is something like that. I would say we have a problem, but at this point I am just a spectator that occasionally says something. You, the active community, have a problem. If fraudulent voting has anything to say about the health of this tier, it is not good. I am not shaming any one individual or part of the community; I would be just as upset with the outcome of the suspect test if Kyurem remained banned but we knew there was tampering. This is starting to feel like a circus, and we are all riding the merry-go-round.
You cannot expect any order following news like this, I get that. You would not shame someone for having a strong reaction to a surprising or disrespectful action, the same will apply here. That does not make it right, but you can understand it and move from there toward a better and more permanent solution. I just wish there was a bit more conclusiveness, less confusion and divisiveness. Watching this thread is practically therapy for me at this point, it is starting to remind me more of a broken relationship than a tier.
That aside, good luck with all your chaos. I will be dipping out again. Peace.
off the top of my head you could have a way to tie your alt accounts (including ladder accounts for reqs) directly to a main account. I'm no coding afficionado or anything but this seems like a pretty obvious way to do it from a logistical standpoint although probably less feasible from a coding standpoint. From there you can just make it so you're forced to have zero activity on the account in order to link it (although for preexisting alts you'd probably want those linked too so you could maybe have a little flag next to the name just to say "hey, some guy used this account before linking it").
I just hit top 20 on the ladder and broke 1900 for the first time (got my silver medal!). Its a pretty exciting accomplishment for me and I want to share my thoughts on various mons in the meta (and I want to procrastinate from things that I should be doing IRL). I've been running a mix of offense, bulky offense, and bulky balance so I have a wide variety of playstyles to analyze from
I want to cover this first because I think there has been some really interesting meta developments with it. It's also consistently been the most annoying mon for me to deal with, looking through the ou mons there isn't really much that can deal with glimm effectively. 
needs an outrageous amount of speed to be faster than it and usually wants to run earthquake if it is going fast, 
, 
and 
do not appreciate the poison moves like mortal spin and sludge bomb, while 
and 
hate the new meteor beam sets that have been invented. Sometimes, when is used with other leads such as 
or 
, it has the choice of going for power herb or focus sash (or sometimes even red card) and its not always immediatly obvious which leads to interesting mind games. I find a fascinating mon in the current meta and have often seen them opt to mortal spin for the poison instead of rocking against some teamstyles.
I feel like I have seen a lot less of it recently, but I don't think that is backed up with any significant data. I have really enjoyed seeing bulkier sets that include wisp and knock get more use and my gliscor teams have appreciated the reduced usage of ice beam. I still think focus blast on non nasty plot sets are a bit of a throw, only because its such an inaccurate move and you are better covering fighting offense in other mons on your team. I think has taken over 's "king of special attacker" role and the increased usage of special counters to such as 
have been effective in countering just as well. Being forced into using weak bast power stab moves and non-stab coverage has vastly limited the offensive potential of it, but I do think that especially with tera poison countering its most consistent checks, it can still be a very annoying mon. Dark pulse flinch is still BS though
I don't have as much to say here, its not ou proper but I have been using it on various teams and its a very respectable breaker, if you can predict them not going into a dark type, luster purge is a fantastic move that can break through even resists if it can get some defense drops like 
and special defensive mons like 
. I haven't had the chance to experiment with anything other than specs, and there are some teams which will have each an immunity to thunderbolt/luster/aura/draco which is frustrating, but its still a solid mon if you surround it with good supports and pivots, it will put in a lot of work
Speaking of supports, this thing scarfed is such a great mon and I'm surprised I rarely see it anymore. I think the rise of 
and 
have discouraged it. Its great at breaking sash lead mons with triple axel and is naturally faster than much of the tier, meaning it is a great revenge killer against things like 
, 
, 
, 
, and chipped 
. Being a grass type before using triple axel and getting stab on it makes it a surprising emergency answer into 
and similar things can be said about its dark type and 
This thing has been seeing a lot more use and its so annoying to deal with, at least with the team structures I am running. Being able to pick and choose a coverage move with tera blast (I have seen tera blast dark and tera blast ghost obliterate my ) along with the 50-50 checks that firey wrath bring along means that even switching into spdef answers can quickly go south. Probably my least favorite mon to face currently.
and Fairies are so nice right now, especially with water attached to it, I've seen a couple teams just have 4 or 5 mons that outright lose to . The only thing holding it back from true greatness is easy recovery, draining kiss is not it. We really need some more defensive fairies in the tier, I'm tired of throwing one of these two on every team that needs one.
I have seen a couple of deoxys use recover to patch up chip from weaker priority moves or attacks from things like 
or and from life orb, which I have been guilty of using to chip it into range of a priority move. I think its a really cool adaptation, but every time I try to use i never feel like I am hitting things hard enough. Grass is always greener on the other side huh
and 
I put these together because I have been seeing less encore, probably more significant with :dragonite; because it wants ice spinner for but I have very much been enjoying this with kingambit. If :ogerpon-water: could tera into any other type except just water I think it would be banworthy, that mon is heinous and getting crit with an ivy cudgel can often be a death sentence to whatever counter you thought was going to work against it
I've been seeing quite a bit more of this thing recently, and I still can't figure out why. It still faces many of the problems that it had earlier on when it fell out of ou, what has changed? On some teamstyles its burns and resistances can be quite annoying, but I find it still very hazard week and lacking meaningful recovery while being forced to run an inaccurate stab move for its full effectiveness
This thing is quite the annoyance to fight, but really only if it procs its 20% burn chance. This thing is a perfect answer into or other iron defense mons and is quite an adept answer into a whole variety of physical mons in the tier. They really need to take the tera button away from this thing though, a very big benefit that has is its ghost typing and taking that away actually makes it lose to (unless you get the burn ofc). If you cant force this thing out after it gets a few calm minds set up, its an absolute beast and can win games nearly instantly depending on what's alive on your side. I have never seen it run anything other than its standard 4 moves, does anyone know any other cool tech it can run other than strength sap/shadow/matcha/calm mind?
My last thoughts, at least for now, I have been seeing a lot less of him and when I do it's always accompanied with iron defense or curse. Are the protect rocks cure recover sets gone for good? I really enjoyed using them but with the rise in , , and it has failed to make the same impact that it used to in older metagames. I should try to build with it again
. It had some success, it can actually take down if its not running ice beam or psyshock and does really well into setup mons if you are running clear smog, but I think it lacks the necessary offensive tools to justify using four attacks, its just too weak individually against many of the things it wants to answer which leads it prone to being set up on, even despite clear smog. Being hazard weak does this thing no benefit, but I hope that this set can take off on a couple teams that want role compression for waterpon and special water/grass/fairy attackers that threaten something on the team
needs an outrageous amount of speed to be faster than it and usually wants to run earthquake if it is going fast, , and do not appreciate the poison moves like mortal spin and sludge bomb, while and hate the new meteor beam sets that have been invented. Sometimes, when is used with other leads such as or , it has the choice of going for power herb or focus sash (or sometimes even red card) and its not always immediatly obvious which leads to interesting mind games. I find a fascinating mon in the current meta and have often seen them opt to mortal spin for the poison instead of rocking against some teamstyles. has taken over 's "king of special attacker" role and the increased usage of special counters to such as have been effective in countering just as well. Being forced into using weak bast power stab moves and non-stab coverage has vastly limited the offensive potential of it, but I do think that especially with tera poison countering its most consistent checks, it can still be a very annoying mon. Dark pulse flinch is still BS though and special defensive mons like . I haven't had the chance to experiment with anything other than specs, and there are some teams which will have each an immunity to thunderbolt/luster/aura/draco which is frustrating, but its still a solid mon if you surround it with good supports and pivots, it will put in a lot of work and have discouraged it. Its great at breaking sash lead mons with triple axel and is naturally faster than much of the tier, meaning it is a great revenge killer against things like , , , , and chipped . Being a grass type before using triple axel and getting stab on it makes it a surprising emergency answer into and similar things can be said about its dark type and ) along with the 50-50 checks that firey wrath bring along means that even switching into spdef answers can quickly go south. Probably my least favorite mon to face currently. and . The only thing holding it back from true greatness is easy recovery, draining kiss is not it. We really need some more defensive fairies in the tier, I'm tired of throwing one of these two on every team that needs one. or and from life orb, which I have been guilty of using to chip it into range of a priority move. I think its a really cool adaptation, but every time I try to use i never feel like I am hitting things hard enough. Grass is always greener on the other side huh and but I have very much been enjoying this with kingambit. If :ogerpon-water: could tera into any other type except just water I think it would be banworthy, that mon is heinous and getting crit with an ivy cudgel can often be a death sentence to whatever counter you thought was going to work against it or other iron defense mons and is quite an adept answer into a whole variety of physical mons in the tier. They really need to take the tera button away from this thing though, a very big benefit that has is its ghost typing and taking that away actually makes it lose to (unless you get the burn ofc). If you cant force this thing out after it gets a few calm minds set up, its an absolute beast and can win games nearly instantly depending on what's alive on your side. I have never seen it run anything other than its standard 4 moves, does anyone know any other cool tech it can run other than strength sap/shadow/matcha/calm mind?, , and it has failed to make the same impact that it used to in older metagames. I should try to build with it againBONUS
Without spore, you might think that amoongus' place has fallen from ou. And you are probably right, but I did try and mess around with an assault vest set, trying to mimic its fellow grass regenerator . It had some success, it can actually take down if its not running ice beam or psyshock and does really well into setup mons if you are running clear smog, but I think it lacks the necessary offensive tools to justify using four attacks, its just too weak individually against many of the things it wants to answer which leads it prone to being set up on, even despite clear smog. Being hazard weak does this thing no benefit, but I hope that this set can take off on a couple teams that want role compression for waterpon and special water/grass/fairy attackers that threaten something on the teamAmoonguss @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Clear Smog
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Clear Smog
Also the button that resets your W/L could reset your GXE and ELO. Then a little tab would open to give you a specific badge (Similar system to the one used for top ladder players or tour winners) for each suspect. Or just a button named "Suspect X" that gives you the badge and resets everything while keeping the W/L button separate.
This would make it so you don't need a new alt but just one account for laddering and one for all suspects, or if you don't care about temporary elo just one account, maybe it could only reset elo but not GXE, though I'm not familiar with how these systems work exactly.
Would something like that be feasible?
This would make it so you don't need a new alt but just one account for laddering and one for all suspects, or if you don't care about temporary elo just one account, maybe it could only reset elo but not GXE, though I'm not familiar with how these systems work exactly.
Would something like that be feasible?
I was reading the thread about how to change suspect tests, and there are a couple of things that aren't clear to me.
I'm not 100% sure if this is the correct thread to ask about it, but i found that thread from this one and i couldn't find an appropriate thread, so i'll try posting here. If it's not the correct thread please redirect me to the correct one.
The first question is about the conclusion in that thread. I read everything and the conclusion was to have slightly high ELO + the usual GXE. I understand the ELO, but why did they also keep the GXE? It feels like it was to make it slightly harder, but then can't you just ask a slightly higher ELO? GXE is supposed to add consistency(?), but why is that valuable?
The second one is about a topic that was not discussed in that thread, but it seems like a pretty big point. Wouldn't it be possible to do the suspect tests without alt accounts, simply using your main account? I get that it was impossible with the old requirements, but if the only requirement was ELO wouldn't it be possible?
I feel like that would fix a lot of problems, since you could just skip the low ladder part and start from 1600, 1700 or wherever you were, so it would be a lot faster and solve the problem where a lot of good players don't have the time to get reqs on an alt. At the same time, you would have to play anyway because iirc your ELO decreases over time if you don't. So even a good player wouldn't be able to not touch the game for a month, come back and vote without playing any games.
The fact that nobody even mentioned this makes me doubt that there is some other reason for which alt accounts are used.
I'm not 100% sure if this is the correct thread to ask about it, but i found that thread from this one and i couldn't find an appropriate thread, so i'll try posting here. If it's not the correct thread please redirect me to the correct one.
The first question is about the conclusion in that thread. I read everything and the conclusion was to have slightly high ELO + the usual GXE. I understand the ELO, but why did they also keep the GXE? It feels like it was to make it slightly harder, but then can't you just ask a slightly higher ELO? GXE is supposed to add consistency(?), but why is that valuable?
The second one is about a topic that was not discussed in that thread, but it seems like a pretty big point. Wouldn't it be possible to do the suspect tests without alt accounts, simply using your main account? I get that it was impossible with the old requirements, but if the only requirement was ELO wouldn't it be possible?
I feel like that would fix a lot of problems, since you could just skip the low ladder part and start from 1600, 1700 or wherever you were, so it would be a lot faster and solve the problem where a lot of good players don't have the time to get reqs on an alt. At the same time, you would have to play anyway because iirc your ELO decreases over time if you don't. So even a good player wouldn't be able to not touch the game for a month, come back and vote without playing any games.
The fact that nobody even mentioned this makes me doubt that there is some other reason for which alt accounts are used.
Yoo congrats that's awesome!
Really cool analysis, what are your opinions on the best prim set? Do you think it's hdp pivot, av or sub cm?
re: sinistcha set varietyI just hit top 20 on the ladder and broke 1900 for the first time (got my silver medal!). Its a pretty exciting accomplishment for me and I want to share my thoughts on various mons in the meta (and I want to procrastinate from things that I should be doing IRL). I've been running a mix of offense, bulky offense, and bulky balance so I have a wide variety of playstyles to analyze from
I want to cover this first because I think there has been some really interesting meta developments with it. It's also consistently been the most annoying mon for me to deal with, looking through the ou mons there isn't really much that can deal with glimm effectively.
I feel like I have seen a lot less of it recently, but I don't think that is backed up with any significant data. I have really enjoyed seeing bulkier sets that include wisp and knock get more use and my gliscor teams have appreciated the reduced usage of ice beam. I still think focus blast on non nasty plot sets are a bit of a throw, only because its such an inaccurate move and you are better covering fighting offense in other mons on your team. I think
I don't have as much to say here, its not ou proper but I have been using it on various teams and its a very respectable breaker, if you can predict them not going into a dark type, luster purge is a fantastic move that can break through even resists if it can get some defense drops like
Speaking of supports, this thing scarfed is such a great mon and I'm surprised I rarely see it anymore. I think the rise of
This thing has been seeing a lot more use and its so annoying to deal with, at least with the team structures I am running. Being able to pick and choose a coverage move with tera blast (I have seen tera blast dark and tera blast ghost obliterate my
Fairies are so nice right now, especially with water attached to it, I've seen a couple teams just have 4 or 5 mons that outright lose to
I have seen a couple of deoxys use recover to patch up chip from weaker priority moves or attacks from things like
I put these together because I have been seeing less encore, probably more significant with :dragonite; because it wants ice spinner for
I've been seeing quite a bit more of this thing recently, and I still can't figure out why. It still faces many of the problems that it had earlier on when it fell out of ou, what has changed? On some teamstyles its burns and resistances can be quite annoying, but I find it still very hazard week and lacking meaningful recovery while being forced to run an inaccurate stab move for its full effectiveness
This thing is quite the annoyance to fight, but really only if it procs its 20% burn chance. This thing is a perfect answer into
My last thoughts, at least for now, I have been seeing a lot less of him and when I do it's always accompanied with iron defense or curse. Are the protect rocks cure recover sets gone for good? I really enjoyed using them but with the rise in
BONUSWithout spore, you might think that amoongus' place has fallen from ou. And you are probably right, but I did try and mess around with an assault vest set, trying to mimic its fellow grass regenerator
Amoonguss @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Clear Smog
unfortunately it has a moveset about as deep as the tea cup that it lives in, but stun spore and foul play are both notable options. In a breakneck fast meta like this one, paralysis support is always useful to have around, and foul play can punish greedy setup sweepers and physical attackers. Some folks run scald for the higher burn chance but I'm not sold on it personally, matcha gotcha has better role compression even if it is less unreliable
yeah finch closed the thread before i could reply but gxe has no business being involved in reqs at all. anything that encourages new alts to spend time in the low ladder is counterproductive to all the stated goals a suspect process can have. it should just be flat 1800 if going higher than that is not politcly palatable
I'd be more interested in training for reqs if gxe weren't a thing. I'm not claiming i'd be acquiring reqs in either system, im not frequently playing and thus not learning that often, but I think gxe just adds a very weird lottery system where you have to hope you don't get hit with someone's low ladder weird team or a better player than you in their own suspect account. If it were just a climb to 1800/1850/1900/whatever, I think more people would genuinely try it out and get more experience and interact with the process, since one/two bad games doesn't mean your account is joever
TLDR: Its AV
The metagame is really fast right now, and bulky teams don't really have space for Primarina, boots makes it not hazard weak but balance generally hates having mons without recovery. Sub protect lefties is maybe the closest you'll get with like older gen heatran, kyurem, and modern gliscor. The only exception is probably ting lu but thats because ting lu is secretly
who has made his way to ou. I digress. As I mention in my post, I find a lot of
's value to actually come from its offensive capabilities, a lot of things such as darkrai, kyurem, zama, gliscor, dragapult, wake, tusk, lando, molt, bolt, hisuian samu do not appreciate its offensive moves and being able to invest fully into special attack while still having great bulk (as you can do on an AV set will provide you with the most utility for one specific slot. I suggest modest, max spa with enough speed to hit whatever benchmark you are looking for and the rest in bulk. Second place I am torn between boots and calm mind but I think calm mind will edge it out, you have the space to run draining kiss if you want and leftovers gives it quite a bit more variety, where boots only has value against spikes stacking teams when your team does not have an easy way to remove the hazards. It is possible for calm mind to win games, but its mediocre physical bulk really limits it, and I see cm as more of a means to an end to win opposing CM wars or set up on passive mons such as gking or corv. You have to run bulk on these sets and you also have to run speed, and that really eats into the damage that you can dish out while also making certain matchups, like specs wake under sun, sludge bomb darkrai, kyurem, moth and cm iron valiant a lot less risky. I am not personally a fan of boots, if your team is getting stressed by a spikes spam teams, I don't think prim is what your team needs and you're going to struggle against the more classic mons that prim counters. Just like CM you cut into your offense (and ironically some of your bulk, at least depending on how many hazards you come in on) but you dont have a way to boost your offense. The thing that makes this set not complete cheeks is access to flip turn but you will not believe how many times waterpon or clod comes in and just blocks that completely. Overall I think AV is the best of everything that makes prim worth running.
Illustrative Calc
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 258-306 (80.3 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 386-456 (120.2 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 120-142 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 180-212 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The thing about D-speed is it can be a bit finnicky. A lot of the damage comes off of its coverage, high base power moves, and high EV investment for damage. Not to mention the mixed attacking allows you to bypass the primary defensive stat of many mons. I don't think there is really run recover on it. You want 4 attacks to be able to hit everything. Tera Dark also allows you get get the OHKOs on some things you otherwise wouldn't with Knock Off.I have seen a couple of deoxys use recover to patch up chip from weaker priority moves or attacks from things like
Another trap is if you only invest in one main attacking stat, or try to awkwardly split them both, it can be lacking in power. You don't need much speed investment. You can outspeed the entire unboosted metagame with just a + speed nature. You can literally go 252 EVs in both attack and special attack if you want. There was some past testing by myself and some other players, and it was discovered that 200ish EV investment isn't necesarrily that bad if you want some speed investment. But it depends. If you find yourself wanting power, you should probably go 252 attack and 252 special attack.
Generally speaking, LO D-speed is meant to be more of a mixed attacking wallbreaker that just so happens to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame. You bring it in, you start clicking buttons, then get out. Because you are going to be forced out a lot, you usually want a slow pivot to be able to reset momentum.
One way to mitigate the LO damage is Rillaboom. It's a pretty good combo that can be good against offensive teams and a lot of heavy defensive cores. You need something for Corv and Tinkaton, though.
As Meowscarada's strongest solider, I do believe the rise ofSpeaking of supports, this thing scarfed is such a great mon and I'm surprised I rarely see it anymore. I think the rise of
/ is certainly annoying for it since its discouraging its main threatening move, Triple Axel, but on the flipside, both Pokemon can barely be considered switch-ins I think because Knock Off is severally crippling both Pokemon and their method of checking it long-term is with an RNG Flame Body / Static. I've been trying Protective Pads on Meowscarada, which is awesome to beat these Pokemon without worrying about these Static / Flame Body Procs and you can use it to beat these Birds down long-term, click u-turn safely, click Triple Axel without taking chip from Lando-T, etc. Pair it with some bird switch-ins like and and they are completely cooked, with these two also helping against .The sets you mentioned, like Choice Scarf, are still really good I think, with it being able to revenge kill a lot of fast Pokemon like Roaring Moon, Ogerpon-W, Deo-S, Iron Valiant, and even Kyurem if you opt for Low Kick. Choice Band is also amazing and very difficult to switch-into properly without relying on an RNG Bird of choice. That said, I think there is a lot of unexplored variety with Meowscarada, which is fair its not the first option that one may chose for certain roles, but I think its ability to run multiple different items besides Boots and its strong speed tier + moveset options and perfect STAB Coverage are all great traits in OU that lend itself to more roles than the standard band / scarf sets.
One set I've been having fun with beyond Protective pads during the kyurem-less meta was a Rocky Helmet Spikes set, which traded favorably into opposing leads like Landorus-T and Samurott, punishing moves like Ceaseless Edge while also maintaining a high threat level with its good Flower Trick / Knock Off / Triple Axel coverage. Its a bit like Rocky Helmet Deoxys-S, except with Protean to allow for some funny shenanigans in exchange for less speed. One interactions in particular I like with this set is setting up Spikes as Kingambit switches in, while weakening it with 2 rounds of Rocky Helmet chip damage, helping Great Tusk deal with it later while also having multiple layers to chip down other annoying Pokemon like Ogerpon-W. This set also still performed well offensively against Bulky offensive cores like Iron Crown + Lando-T + Samurott-H, which Meowscarada has a decent MU into as is.
Meowscarada @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Flower Trick
- Knock Off
- Triple Axel
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Flower Trick
- Knock Off
- Triple Axel
In general, I think Meowscarada is still a bit unexplored in the current metagame. The metagame is becoming a bit more like the DLC1 / Home metagame I think, espicially with the possibility of
going and Meowscarada was notoriously excellent in those metagames, able to run a high variety of sets (one of my favorites in earlier metagame was Tera Dark Overgrow with Low Kick, which had a very limited amount of switch-ins and strong priority for various weather threats). While Triple Axel was a great gift from the DLC, I do feel that its also led to meowscarada being bottlenecked into roles that revolve around that move and Protean, whereas I personally felt Meowscarada was at its peak when it didn't have to rely on Protean like in the Pre-Home / Home / DLC1 metagames. I am hoping to see more metagame optimizations from this mon in the future to widen its reach and utility.I've been seeing quite a bit more of this thing recently, and I still can't figure out why. It still faces many of the problems that it had earlier on when it fell out of ou, what has changed? On some teamstyles its burns and resistances can be quite annoying, but I find it still very hazard week and lacking meaningful recovery while being forced to run an inaccurate stab move for its full effectiveness
This thing is quite the annoyance to fight, but really only if it procs its 20% burn chance. This thing is a perfect answer into
can be decent. Being one of few full counters to 
while also checking are both very handy utilities to bring to a team and many of its "checks" aren't actually remotely safe switch ins since they are all crippled by Will-O-Wisp (think , , ). Unfortunately, I do agree that Heatran is still extremely flawed due to its inability to make progress against 
, , and , barring running Tera Blast which isn't guarenteed to work and forces it to drop Stealth Rock, Taunt, or Wisp, which are generally more useful imo (Solar Beam in Sun is heat though). Whereas Heatran was once renowend for its ability to make progress against unprogressable threats, this is the opposite case this generation where most of the defensive threats are the ones keeping it down from truly achieving its full potential. There are a lot of punishers to these Pokemon, but I also just find that I'd rather have Moltres's Ground-immunity on most teams compared to Heatran's 4x Ground Weakness. Accounting for Kyurem / Great Tusk / Enamorus / Zamazenta can be a bit difficult on some teams, which is why Moltres's defensive profile feels so much more valuable.For
I like Stun Spore Hex on status spam teams, but I believe these sets will be taking a hit with Zapdos and Raging Bolt being so common.
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Not a Blaziken user, but IMO, Fire Fighting is still a good STAB combination, and its access to Sword Dance and tera allows it to punch some holes before dying.
It can remove Protect for... say, Rock Slide if the birds are that much of a nuisance.
Just my two cents. Let people use them. If they find it good, they will keep using it. If they find it not helpful, they will either fix it or remove it from team.
If Tera Blast is banned I’m pulling up with the Tera Normal Swift Regieleki.
252 SpA Tera Normal Regieleki Swift vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 99-117 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
damn this guy’s weak, might as well run espeed instead.
ID Corv gets pp stalled. Only 16 Body Presses which only do like 50 at +6 to Gliscor. Waste the BPs and oppo’s cooked.
After a Nasty Plot boost, Hydrapple wielding the Life Orb held item is capable of fainting a Galarian Slowking (not wielding the Assault Vest) with a single Earth Power.
Great Tusk OHKOs with Headlong Rush. If they tera then they’ve exhausted, and they will face the consequences of exhausting. Incineroar also Roars it out to waste its Booster Energy.
Ummm... Did you factor in Pressure? Corv can get 48 PP with just the 3 moves of Iron Defense, Body Press, and Roost. A Gliscor with Swords Dance, Facade, Earthquake, and Protect has a total of 96 PP, but it should essentially divided by 2 here because of Pressure. That would make it more like 48. Corv has in 3 moves what Gliscor can have in 4, at least head to head.
Now, there is some variance to this. U-turn can ruin your ID set up and make stalling out more difficult. Gliscor can run both Facade and Knock Off, which would give it an extra 16 PP for a total of 112. But divided by 2, that is still essentially like 56 PP against Pressure Corv. And it will likely have a 4th move with more than 8 PP. SD Gliscor should Struggle first.
If this isn't enough, that also assumes Gliscor isn't Tera Normal.
It's this exact juicy calc that makes me love bringing in Hydrapple then watching them bring in Glowking expecting me to just have NP. the Lifeorb put its over the edge and lets you get some truly delicious benchmarks.
Not how Pressure works, it only affects moves that have Corviknight included in its targetting (Facade, EQ, Trick Room etc, but not Swords Dance or Protect)
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Anyway, time to add my thoughts on the meta, though honestly I didn't play much for a good few reasons, partially due to a lack of time and partially because man there are some dumb mons that make the tier significantly less enjoyable to play.
Kyurem.. yeah moving on, this is done to death
Gliscor: I'll be honest, this mon isn't the issue, Gholdengo is. Gliscor's main issue is that it can easily stack Spikes and actually has the longevity that other Spikes users don't have while being able to pressure Great Tusk, but that's kind of it? Don't get me wrong, it's incredibly strong, but Gholdengo has felt like the culprit for a long time, going back even to before Gliscor's reintroduction back in HOME and even pre-HOME. Good as Gold is genuinely such a strain on the builder, and it heavily limits what builds are acceptable. Once you're actually able to reliably remove hazards, Gliscor is actually reasonable to handle. EDIT: i forgot about sd facade somehow but thats not a set i struggled with so i cant comment on it
Gholdengo: I already mentioned why Gholdengo is dumb, but I do think Gholdengo is the most problematic Pokemon right now. Good as Gold is the main reason, but Gholdengo can also just pick and choose what it loses to to an unhealthy degree, e.g. Focus Blast for Kingambit/Hamu/RMoon or the million different Tera types and items it can run to get free setup on would-be checks or counters like Lando-T, Gliscor, and especially Ting-lu. I do get that people find it helpful since it's by far the best answer to IDBP Zamazenta, but the strain it causes alongside the fact that there are other excellent zama counters that are healthy is really bad for the meta IMO
Kingambit: Supreme Overlord is dumb, saying its necessary for the meta is pure cope and a sign that the meta is in a really bad state. And it doesn't do a great job at "holding the meta together" because most Pokemon resist and without a Swords Dance boost its not OHKOing things it shouldn't. If you need speed control, use actual speed control. If you need priority, Dragonite, Cinderace, and others are significantly healthier options. Also Tera on this thing is infinitely dumber than Volcarona and Regieleki.
Roaring Moon: This thing is really dumb, its only going to be seen on HO but it so easily wins games and has multiple incredible Tera types. Forcing it to Tera does mean that technically Kingambit might revenge KO but we need to stop using that as an excuse when we all know Kingambit is a problem itself anyway.
Tera: Said it since day one, Tera isn't broken and instead is a great defensive tool. Same type Tera comes with a major cost, and most Pokemon that use defensive Tera minus a few exceptions (cough cough kingambit) are really healthy. I can see why people may dislike it but it actually gets harder without Tera to answer stuff, and this comes from actual experience. Tera Blast, though...
Tera Blast: is not so healthy. It's sometimes cool, often not, and it really just is a cheese tool at the end of the day that only makes Pokemon like Volcarona, Regieleki, and Iron Moth considerably less balanced, especially considering how hard it can be to call the right Tera type on the former and latter.
Zamazenta: Finishing on a Pokemon I think is really healthy right now, Zamazenta is kind of the perfect example of flexible and incredibly good but not overbearing. 4a Boots sets are a joy to use despite the meta's state and IDBP, while strong, isn't particularly hard to handle if you at least acknowledge it in the builder. Having Kingambit and (hopefully) Kyurem gone will even allow more IDBP counters to exist like Pecharunt and Sinistcha, who are both decent but have issues into the former while the latter punishes them for no reason really.
Current meta feelings: 5/10 competitiveness 4/10 enjoyability, the meta has a lot of potential to improve as long as people are more proactive with bans but as it stands the meta is just kinda poor. Do hope to see it be in a good position before next WCoP, though, since 2023 was really fun and has shown Gen 9 can be good.
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