The Latios at Southern Island is actually much easier to RNG than the roaming one imo, it's just like RNG'ing a stationary. If you wanted a better frame, you could look into the battle video frame advancement method.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Valentino23
- Start date
The Latios at Southern Island is actually much easier to RNG than the roaming one imo, it's just like RNG'ing a stationary. If you wanted a better frame, you could look into the battle video frame advancement method.
Reporting a 222 win streak at Level 50 for the following team:
Nothing groundbreaking here, it's basically Adedade's team with offensive Gengar instead of Perish Song, Curselax instead of Wobbuffet. The theory behind using Snorlax is that Slaking lead can often make it a 3v2, but it leaves itself vulnerable during the Truant phase. Gengar switches in on Fighting/Normal/Ground types on turn 2, while Snorlax can switch into any special types, setup and sweep. Alternatively, Snorlax can just setup and sweep on Toxic stallers, Tracers of Truant, and several Psych Up users (after a few Curses they will only use Psych Up).
Loss at battle 223: Battle video was exported from my console to my PC. I misplayed but also it was unfortunate that Metagross 4's Quick Claw activated just as the opponent needed it, I had clicked Destiny Bond. It was also a roll for Snorlax's EQ to KO it at 50%, around 31%. I think the correct sequence was to switch on the Metagross to Gengar, come back with Slaking and EQ.
Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
Gengar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Destiny Bond
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Rest
Ability: Truant
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
Gengar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Destiny Bond
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Rest
Nothing groundbreaking here, it's basically Adedade's team with offensive Gengar instead of Perish Song, Curselax instead of Wobbuffet. The theory behind using Snorlax is that Slaking lead can often make it a 3v2, but it leaves itself vulnerable during the Truant phase. Gengar switches in on Fighting/Normal/Ground types on turn 2, while Snorlax can switch into any special types, setup and sweep. Alternatively, Snorlax can just setup and sweep on Toxic stallers, Tracers of Truant, and several Psych Up users (after a few Curses they will only use Psych Up).
Loss at battle 223: Battle video was exported from my console to my PC. I misplayed but also it was unfortunate that Metagross 4's Quick Claw activated just as the opponent needed it, I had clicked Destiny Bond. It was also a roll for Snorlax's EQ to KO it at 50%, around 31%. I think the correct sequence was to switch on the Metagross to Gengar, come back with Slaking and EQ.
Attachments
For the gen 3 battle tower ribbons you can do the RS tower which is much easier. (fun fact you can also do emerald doubles for the same ribbon). I typically recommend slaking and latios as ribbon master partners as slaking can carry the RS tower on it's own with double edge. Colloseum TTar doesn't get access to dragon dance so some of the best setup teams/ trick band teams that use it won't work for you. I don't have the perfect team to suggest but some partners could be Salamence+Swampert, Latios+Metagross, Raikou+Skarmory.
Reporting a win streak of 259 for Open Level Battle Factory Doubles on emulator.
Oh. My. Goodness. This streak was absolutely insane. Back in the summer, I was in the middle of doing a writeup for a 106 streak in this category which would have been the record at the time. However, during that process Magpie ended up beating it with a 127. So I scrapped the writeup and decided to pick up playing doubles again, both Lv50 and Open Level. Some more motivation in Open Level to try and take the record back. Well, sure enough I beat my PB of 106, then managed to beat 127 for the record. After that I was content, but figured I would just play as well as I could and see how far I could push it. And draft after draft I seemed to be getting decent pokemon to work with. Alot of flyer EQ strats, alot of Salamence, some Latis, a few Raikous and Snorlaxes. However, there were also some wild drafts, including 1 where my fastest pokemon was Lanturn-1 which I had to pair with a Regice-3 and a Rhydon-2 in the back. All rounds 5-38 are recorded, rounds 14-38 were live streamed on twitch and are highlighted. It would be pretty exhaustive to discuss all of the rounds in detail, but I want to discuss a few themes/moments below that I found interesting.
Flyer-EQ
Intimidate
Don't Play Passive
Draft Tips
Avoid tempting "Combos"
Rounds and Drafts
Loss and Closing Thoughts
Oh. My. Goodness. This streak was absolutely insane. Back in the summer, I was in the middle of doing a writeup for a 106 streak in this category which would have been the record at the time. However, during that process Magpie ended up beating it with a 127. So I scrapped the writeup and decided to pick up playing doubles again, both Lv50 and Open Level. Some more motivation in Open Level to try and take the record back. Well, sure enough I beat my PB of 106, then managed to beat 127 for the record. After that I was content, but figured I would just play as well as I could and see how far I could push it. And draft after draft I seemed to be getting decent pokemon to work with. Alot of flyer EQ strats, alot of Salamence, some Latis, a few Raikous and Snorlaxes. However, there were also some wild drafts, including 1 where my fastest pokemon was Lanturn-1 which I had to pair with a Regice-3 and a Rhydon-2 in the back. All rounds 5-38 are recorded, rounds 14-38 were live streamed on twitch and are highlighted. It would be pretty exhaustive to discuss all of the rounds in detail, but I want to discuss a few themes/moments below that I found interesting.
Flyer-EQ
Easily the best strategy in doubles. Alot of times it might feel "unga bunga" and it can feel like you're being baited into drafting it, especially if you get something fast like a Dugtrio (surprisingly I never got a dugtrio in 38 rounds). However, it's also likely the best strategy. I actually drafted some form of Flyer-EQ in 14 of the smart AI round drafts (rounds 5+) which is roughly 41% of drafts. There a few kinds of Flyer-EQ that I'd categorize though and you have to recognize which one you have, whether it's the best for this draft, and which pokemon you want in the back. Some examples below:
- Fast Physical - Round 7: Latios-7, Dodrio-2, Gardevoir-7. EQ users are typically primarily physical pokemon. Therefore if your flyer/levitator is as well, you do need to worry about intimidate as it can really slow down this hyper offense strategy. Thankfully Dodrio-2 is one of the strongest physical flyers you can have, and even with intimidate you can likely double up with and EQ partner. Dodrio gets somewhat walled by steel/rock which obviously EQ pairs well with. Dodrio can also outspeed and KO alot of electric types that Latios doesn't outpseed. Something like a Salamence would be the biggest worry for this squad, having intimidate, likely SE move into Latios and not having much to hit it well with. Tyranitar would also be somewhat scary with Latios' weak EQ. Gardevoir in the back is not ideal for Ttar, but having dbond or wisp is an out.
- Fast Mixed - Round 21: Zapdos-3, Latias-2, Starmie-5. This is an extremely good combo. Usually you want at least 1 pokemon to be mixed, but having both be fast mixed attackers is just an added bonus. Ice coverage could be a worry, which is why starmie in the back is really nice. With 2 psychic types, heracross would be a worry, but thankfully 31iv Zapdos outspeeds and KOs all 3iv Heracrosses.
- Slow EQ Bulky Flyer - Round 16: Latias-7, Snorlax-7, Dusclops-4. This is not your ideal EQ-flyer, but it worked ok for this round. When you have a slow EQ, you have to worry about 3 things. How likely am I to get double targeted or KOd? How likely is my flyer to get doubled/KOd before I EQ? How much does EQ do to my 3rd mon? Thankfully, Snorlax is not likely to get KOd turn 1 unless they have a fighting type. Latias-7 is also bulky enough to likely not get KOd. However, if they do, Dusclops-4 in the back only takes around 30% from Lax EQ and can rest off the damage. Dusclops also can switch in against fighting types for Snorlaxif I'm worried about getting doubled so it works in both capacities. The coverage on this draft is not ideal, but I wasn't going to take Ursaring-3 or Vileplume-2 and Houndoom-3 seemed too risky next to Latias, probably not being able to double up on KOs (which would be needed for a frail fast mon like Houndoom).
- Slow EQ Frail Flyer - Round 30: Gyarados-4, Misdreavus-4, Meganium-2. This isn't your ideal EQ-flyer as well and I would almost not even call it a Flyer-EQ. The best part about Flyer-EQ is getting fast damage off before your opponent attacks and the likelihood of actually doing that with this squad is not great. Gyarados' intimidate does help Misdreavus live shadow balls, but Crunch's and fast double ups are still a big worry. Additionally, Misdreavus likely won't be able to KO any electric pokemon before they smack Gyarados. So the pokemon in the back needs to be able to take electric hits as well as a potential EQ which is why Meganium fits nicely. If I didn't have something like Meganium I'm not sure I would have gone with an EQ strat this draft. To be honest, this draft is more so about taking a quick KO with misdreavus and neutralizing opponents with intimidate to allow Meganium-2 to set up and clean up when it comes in. It just happens to also include a Flyer-EQ combo.
- Ride or die EQ - Round 31: Dodrio-4, Flygon-1, Starmie-1. This combo is basically going all in on clicking EQ. Flygon-1 really isn't doing what it needs to if it has to click another move besides EQ. And Dodrio is such a hyper offensive mon that you really don't have much room to mix up strategy and you just have to hope you can outdamage with double ups. The only saving grace is that Dodrio's endure can potentially provide some flexibility on turn 1, especially against electrics that outspeed, because Starmie-1 is not a viable switch in for those. Starmie at least takes the ice moves for Flygon, however ice types are likely to see KOs on both Flygon and Dodrio so you really just need to smack them with EQ drill peck. Starmie can technically take an EQ, but it doesn't love it and is at risk of crits so normally it's just attack with both Turn 1. Ironically, this round I did run into an Articuno and without any counterplay I basically just had to go for the Flygon steel wing and hope. Thankfully it hit and the streak lived on. This type of EQ mode is also very common with pokemon like Dugtrio, Donphan, Swampert-1, etc. and I really don't like drafting it unless I need to, since being locked into turn 1 decisions (though usually very strong) isn't ideal
Intimidate
Intimidate is extremely strong in doubles. I drafted intimidate 10 rounds (though most of them Salamence) and led it 9/10 of those times. Not only do you get alot of info on turn 1 getting to see 2/3 of the opponents pokemon and using the type/phrase combo, but seeing if either pokemon is white herb is also huge info, especially against pokemon with 1 white herb set like Granbull or lots of white herb sets like Moltres. So you get the set info, but you also burn their white herb in case they do Overheat and then they're usually not as threatening. I find that getting the intimidate off right away just sets you up so much better for the end games. Especially against the set up sets such as dragonite or tyranitar that will set up until they get a few boosts or see a KO. You can swap your intimidate out turn 1 and cycle it in later to further delay those mons from actually attacking, or to just put strong physical mons at -2. Although set up is more rare in doubles, intimidate really enables some setup mons for doubles end games and allows you to more reliably draft them such as Blissey or mons like Dusclops-2, Meganium-2, Umbreon-4 etc. that normally are more singles staples. I would still caution that I don't automatically draft intimidate if I see it. I'll leave a Granbull or a Gyarados on the bench sometimes. However, when I do draft intimidate I would typically recommend leading it if you can.
Don't Play Passive
Doubles games are shorter by nature and many times you don't have the flexibility to be passive in doubles games. This is very tough, because sometimes you will find yourself in a few situations that are tempting to play passively in, but might not be the right move:
- Ex. You lead a Salamence and the opponent has a Lapras that you can't reliably double up to KO. These situations are frustrating because only a few Lapras sets have ice moves, but it feels like preserving your Salamence and intimidate for the pokemon in the back would be really useful. However, you have to take into account a couple things.
- Based on the type/phrase how likely is an ice move lapras?
- Could this be an OHKO lapras? (these you absolutely don't want to play passively against)
- Does Salamence still have a chance to live even if its an ice move lapras and you can't KO? (i.e. blizzard lapras can miss, does mence have brightpowder, can you use rock slide to flinch)
- Can you reliably KO the other opponent and take it to a 2v2?
- How bad would an ice beam freeze or crit be on your switch in pokemon?
- Will you be able to KO Lapras before Salamence comes back in? (if your switch in is Suicune-1 and it's Water Absorb Lapras maybe not)
- Ex. Round 26 Battle 7: I lead Hera-4 and Latios-6 (Snorlax-1 in the back, all 3iv). Opponent is Flareon/Articuno no type high risk. Heracross EQ will KO Flareon, but Flareon very likely has Quick Claw and Overheat will KO. Articuno sometimes sees a kill on Latios with Ice Beam, but it's likey a Blizzard articuno which will not see a KO. Not wanting to risk the Quick Claw, I opt to save Heracross and swap in snorlax as I Dclaw the Flareon, too worried about quick claw. Articuno uses Reflect, but the issue with this play is that it's actually Flareon-2 which curses and now sees a KO on Latios with Shadow Ball. Swapping in Heracross will just put me at risk of a double up and Lax can't KO Flareon after a Curse. So basically, I'm still risking a quick claw on turn 2 AND I'm in worse position since they have reflect up. Well, sure enough Flareon does get the quick claw and KOs my latios. It was a miracle I ended up winning this battle, but I think it all stemmed from a turn 1 misplay why I got so far behind. Obviously this is hindsight because Flareon didn't get the quick claw turn 1, but had I played out the Flareon-2 scenario in my head (which is very likely to curse turn 1), I would have realized that I'm basically either risking a quick claw turn 1 or turn 2. Turn 1 however, I actually have better odds because Overheat could also miss, whereas shadow ball cannot. This is a bit of an anecdote, but I think the premise of taking your best chance to get ahead is usually correct. Playing passively gives the AI more chances to move and more chance to get "hax" which is usually how these streaks end up losing. So taking KOs when you see them is the best chance to reduce that rather than to play a slow switching game.
- There were a few games this run where I'm not in great position on turn 1 and I opt to just attack for the upside of crit, flinch, or secondary effects and end up getting them which potentially saved my run. I think you do have get a decent bit of good luck to hit a streak like this so you may as well attack and give yourself outs rather than switching around to wind up in losing end game positions anyways. I think the difficult part is being able to gauge whether taking risky moves on turn 1 is actually your best chance of winning that specific battle. It's probably harder to do in singles because of how little information you have on turn 1, but in doubles you might be able to reasonably assess whether you have to go for it all right away. And that might mean risking an opposing quick claw, going for a quick claw of your own, or risking a raw thunder (which I also had to do), etc.
Draft Tips
Leads - Speed. Speed is king in doubles. Generally I'm looking for 2 leads who are above 228 speed (3iv lati sets). There are probably some other speed tiers to check, but that's the main gut check I do. If you have 2 pokemon with an ok STAB move and 228 speed or more, usually you can double up on a Lati and KO which, because of their set variety, coverage, and immunity to EQ, is usually really nice to have. I prefer to lead intimidate, fake out, destiny bond, and thunder wave as well.
- Intimidate - already discussed
- Fake Out - this can be really useful, even on "bad" mons like Shiftry, to guarantee clean KOs on Quick Claw pokemon or to enable setup pokemon to get free boosts. Round 8 I used Shiftry-1 and Raikou-6 in this way. Pokemon like Kang-1 are usually great regardless if you have a setup pokemon next to it, but weaker pokemon like Medicham-2 or Shiftry-4 need to have good partners to utilize the free turn
- Destiny Bond - I can see an argument for keeping it in the back, but given that your leads are more likely to get damaged first, I definitely prefer to lead these pokemon to take a normal KO, then a 2nd mon with bond.
- Thunder Wave - This is one of the best moves in doubles. Any sort of setup monster like Suicune-1 can be totally neutered by a twave. If you're not aware of "Guts Glitch", the basics is that once statused a pokemon in doubles will highly prefer attacking moves rather than status moves (aside from fire or electric status moves). The biggest uses are preventing a pokemon like Suicune-1 from using rest as well as further setting up. A Suicune-1 who's paralyzed will continue to spam surf. Additionally, leading Thunder Wave is great if you want to enable a slower/bulker mon in the back.
- Do I have any 4x weak leads that bait moves I need to cover for? For example, if I lead a Salamence, I'm going to want something that takes ice moves in the back as you may end up in scenarios where both opposing leads have an ice move and your Salamence might as well be a Clefable using Follow me. In which case you can swap to your ice resist and completely waste the opponents turn (a case when being passive is good).
- Do my leads have EQ and will I potentially need to take self EQ damage?
- Are there any pokemon with good Stall/setup potential? Pokemon like Blissey, Meganium-2, Dusclops-2 are actually pretty great in the back depending on your leads. Sometimes you can structure your drafts in such a way that your leads are just meant to destroy anything that threatens your stall pokemon in the back. For example, you may see an opposing Latios/Machamp lead. Sure Latios is more threatening right now, but if you destroy that Machamp your Blissey can probably 1v1 that Latios and if the back mon is special, might even be able to 1v2. Additionally, your leads are best when you can double up and take KOs turn 1. If you have to use swords dance or calm mind to be threatening you probably want to save that in the back when you might end up in a 1v1 anyways. Stally pokemon tend to have healing as well which is nice when you're switching into attacks
- Speed. Speed isn't as important for the back pokemon though it's not bad to have. The way I think about it, when you switch in, you're either going to be bulky and taking a little damage or fast and though you take 70% from a switch in, you can still outspeed and finish off opponents. If you have a frail/speedy pokemon in the back, you likely won't want to swap them in so try to lead pokemon that you won't feel the need to swap out often.
- Even if you don't plan on raw switching in your fast pokemon, you can't guarantee that you'll get in cleanly due to gen3 mechanics and forcing switch ins mid turn when your own pokemon get KOd
- If you do plan on raw switching you also risk crits and secondary effects which are going to be much less risky against a bulky pokemon who can potentially take 4 hits rather than 2 and so taking a crit is fine and you can rest it off
Avoid tempting "Combos"
Sometimes you will get combos in draft that look like they have alot of synergy. Some of these are:
- Weather (Rain Dance, Surf/Thunder or Sunny Day Solarbeam) - Typically the users of these weather moves have a combo move themselves, but also if you're in a situation where using Rain Dance/Sunny Day doesn't look good turn 1 you're probably in really bad position. For niche drafts they can work, for example once I had Zapdos-2 and Scizor-4 with a water type in the back. The idea was that any pokemon with fire coverage would be drawn to scizor, baiting the move as a switch in my water type and rain dance with Zapdos.
- Explosion. In theory this can combo well with ghost types or protect/endure. There are a couple problems though.
- With a ghost type - if your ghost type gets KOd before explosion goes off you basically lose the game unless your back mon eats the boom
- Opposing pokemon using protect
- Opposing pokemon with brightpowder/focus band
- Many Explosion users are slow and thus at risk of getting doubled up
- Many opposing pokemon with Double Team like using those setup moves turn 1, giving them a chance to dodge
- If you don't KO both opposing pokemon (such as a Metagross), your back pokemon might get hit by its attack
- Side Ability activation (Flash Fire / Guts) - I've never really considered using these. In my opinion you're more likely to do more damage into opposing pokemon by just double attacking than by giving 1 pokemon 1.5 power.
Rounds and Drafts
Rounds 5-13 Recording
5 - Gardevoir-5, Typhlosion-4, Slowbro-1
6 - Salamence-6, Raikou-6, Machamp-5
7 - Dodrio-2, Latios-7, Gardevoir-7
8 - Shiftry-1, Raikou-6, Salamence-4
9 - Raikou-3, Feraligatr-2, Miltank-2
10 - Salamence-2, Kangaskhan-4, Rapidash-1
11 - Xatu-3, Tauros-3, Steelix-3
12 - Starmie-5, Hypno-1, Snorlax-2
13 - Latios-7, Manectric-4, Snorlax-4
Rounds 14-16 Livestream
14 - Latias-5, Kangaskhan-1, Entei-5
15 - Gengar-8, Marowak-1, Wailord-2
16 - Latias-7, Snorlax-7, Dusclops-4
Round 17 Livestream
17 - Lanturn-1, Regice-3, Rhydon-2
Rounds 18-19 Livestream
18 - Raichu-4, Heracross-4, Walrein-2
19 - Heracross-4, Dodrio-3, Vaporeon-1
Rounds 20-21 Livestream
20 - Latias-3, Dodrio-2, Moltres-3
21 - Zapdos-3, Latias-2, Starmie-5
Rounds 22-23 Livestream
22 - Entei-6, Salamence-4, Scizor-2
23 - Gengar-7, Glalie-2, Registeel-2
Rounds 24-25 Livestream
24 - Regirock-1, Lapras-8, Machamp-2
25 - Salamence-1, Slaking-3, Porygon2-4
Round 26 Livestream
26 - Whiscash-2, Moltres-4, Gengar-1
Round 27 Livestream
27 - Ampharos-4, Espeon-2, Aerodactyl-4
Rounds 28-29 Livestream
28 - Zapdos-5, Salamence-5, Tentacruel-1
29 - Latias-4, Tentacruel-3, Ursaring-4
Round 30 Livestream
30 - Gyarados-4, Misdreavus-4, Meganium-2
Round 31 Livestream
31 - Dodrio-4, Flygon-1, Starmie-1
Round 32 Livestream
32 - Salamence-8, Sceptile-3, Ninetales-4
Rounds 33-34 Livestream
33 - Metagross-8, Salamence-2, Kingdra-2
34 - Shiftry-3, Typhlosion-2, Entei-6
Round 35 pt1 Livestream
Round 35 pt2 Livestream
35 - Gengar-8, Sceptile-1, Hypno-1
Round 36 pt1 Livestream
Rounds 36-37 Livestream
36 - Raikou-2, Lapras-4, Tyranitar-3
37 - Lanturn-4, Rapidash-1, Blissey-3
Round 38 Livestream
38 - Machamp-2, Rapidash-3, Dusclops-3
5 - Gardevoir-5, Typhlosion-4, Slowbro-1
6 - Salamence-6, Raikou-6, Machamp-5
7 - Dodrio-2, Latios-7, Gardevoir-7
8 - Shiftry-1, Raikou-6, Salamence-4
9 - Raikou-3, Feraligatr-2, Miltank-2
10 - Salamence-2, Kangaskhan-4, Rapidash-1
11 - Xatu-3, Tauros-3, Steelix-3
12 - Starmie-5, Hypno-1, Snorlax-2
13 - Latios-7, Manectric-4, Snorlax-4
Rounds 14-16 Livestream
14 - Latias-5, Kangaskhan-1, Entei-5
15 - Gengar-8, Marowak-1, Wailord-2
16 - Latias-7, Snorlax-7, Dusclops-4
Round 17 Livestream
17 - Lanturn-1, Regice-3, Rhydon-2
Rounds 18-19 Livestream
18 - Raichu-4, Heracross-4, Walrein-2
19 - Heracross-4, Dodrio-3, Vaporeon-1
Rounds 20-21 Livestream
20 - Latias-3, Dodrio-2, Moltres-3
21 - Zapdos-3, Latias-2, Starmie-5
Rounds 22-23 Livestream
22 - Entei-6, Salamence-4, Scizor-2
23 - Gengar-7, Glalie-2, Registeel-2
Rounds 24-25 Livestream
24 - Regirock-1, Lapras-8, Machamp-2
25 - Salamence-1, Slaking-3, Porygon2-4
Round 26 Livestream
26 - Whiscash-2, Moltres-4, Gengar-1
Round 27 Livestream
27 - Ampharos-4, Espeon-2, Aerodactyl-4
Rounds 28-29 Livestream
28 - Zapdos-5, Salamence-5, Tentacruel-1
29 - Latias-4, Tentacruel-3, Ursaring-4
Round 30 Livestream
30 - Gyarados-4, Misdreavus-4, Meganium-2
Round 31 Livestream
31 - Dodrio-4, Flygon-1, Starmie-1
Round 32 Livestream
32 - Salamence-8, Sceptile-3, Ninetales-4
Rounds 33-34 Livestream
33 - Metagross-8, Salamence-2, Kingdra-2
34 - Shiftry-3, Typhlosion-2, Entei-6
Round 35 pt1 Livestream
Round 35 pt2 Livestream
35 - Gengar-8, Sceptile-1, Hypno-1
Round 36 pt1 Livestream
Rounds 36-37 Livestream
36 - Raikou-2, Lapras-4, Tyranitar-3
37 - Lanturn-4, Rapidash-1, Blissey-3
Round 38 Livestream
38 - Machamp-2, Rapidash-3, Dusclops-3
Loss and Closing Thoughts
My Round 38 draft was certainly rough going into a water high risk trainer. I had the options of Machamp-2, Rapidash-3, Dusclops-3, Armaldo-2, Dragonite-5, and Jynx-2. My thought was that Rapidash could Sunny Day to reduce the water damage, then get solar beaming, maybe machamp could start setting up or smack some of those water/ice types with a cross chop. Dusclops was generally good against psychics especially water psychics like starmie/slowbro/slowking that might threaten machamp. Opposing lead is Walrein/Charizard. I double the Walrein with Overheat/Cross chop which both land and KO, while Charizard takes 35% of machamps health with Aerial Ace. Then my hope falls as Swampert comes out in the back. Next to a Flyer he's guaranteed to EQ and I never set up sun with Rapidash. Machamp has already taken too much to start setting up Bulk Ups and Dusclops can't help. My only hope is to Hypnosis or hit a Cross Chop on Swampert and hope that it crits or Dusclops can pick up the Swampert after a high roll then 1v1 the charizard (which is possible given that it's charizard-4 which doesn't hit Dusclops too well). Both of my moves miss and Swampert picks up 2 KOs after Charizard lands an Overheat into machamp. Swampert proceeded to go for Mirror coat a couple times as Dusclops lands a swagger. If it stayed confused I had a slim chance to KO then 1v1 the charizard, but it snaps out and KOs with EQ after 1 turn of confusion. It's always hard to evaluate a loss having the hindsight of what pokemon came out, but I think I could have considered Armaldo or Dragonite more especially given that many water types have spread surf which isn't that threatening. I could have set a bulk up and gone for hypnosis turn 1. I also could have set up sun turn-1 even in front of charizard, knowing that there's a water in the back and I might need solarbeam. I was too focused on not letting walrein get an EQ or OHKO move off, however maybe that was a risk I needed to take. Either way I'm happy to have this run. There are some crazy moments throughout and I was really just trying to play my best, use my instincts and have fun. I was glad to finally break the 200 barrier in factory as well as get to 100 swaps which I never expected to do. I suppose it had to end at some point. I don't know that I'll play Level 50 at least for a while so that one is up for grabs! It would be interesting to see some people make a deep run at Open Level again. I might keep playing it for fun here and there, maybe try out some sets/mons I tend to disregard (Jynx-2).
Fun facts:
Most Mon appearances in drafts
Salamence - 8
Machamp-6
Dodrio-6
Most set appearances in drafts
Jynx-2 - 3
Dodrio-3 - 3
Pokemon I never saw in draft:
Alakazam
Arcanine
Articuno
Balstoise
Charizard
Claydol
Cradily
Crobat
Donphan
Dugtrio
Electabuzz
Electrode
Exeggutor
Golduck
Medicham
Quagsire
Shuckle
Skarmory
Suicune
Swampert
Umbreon
Weezing
Fun facts:
Most Mon appearances in drafts
Salamence - 8
Machamp-6
Dodrio-6
Most set appearances in drafts
Jynx-2 - 3
Dodrio-3 - 3
Pokemon I never saw in draft:
Alakazam
Arcanine
Articuno
Balstoise
Charizard
Claydol
Cradily
Crobat
Donphan
Dugtrio
Electabuzz
Electrode
Exeggutor
Golduck
Medicham
Quagsire
Shuckle
Skarmory
Suicune
Swampert
Umbreon
Weezing
Cheers, all! I've been doin a bit of RNGing in Emerald and was curious what the best mons for Battle Tower singles were. So, I made a list of how often each mon was used in winning streaks and weighted it towards the most successful ones. The points system I used was p simple:
1000+ wins = 5 points
500-999 wins = 4 points
250-499 wins = 3 points
100-249 wins = 2 points
70-99 wins = 1 point
The end product is what I'm dubbing a Results-Based Tier List. This is definitely not an exhaustive list (no Swampert, for instance, despite Werster's famed run), just a compilation of what's worked best for the folks here on Smogon. Still, I figured other peeps new to the Tower might be interested in seeing at a quick glance what the most consistent mons really are~
S+
Suicune - 34 points, 13 teams
Latios - 31 points, 12 teams
S
Salamence - 26 points, 14 teams
Latias - 24 points, 8 teams
Blissey - 23 points, 10 teams
A+
Slaking - 15 points, 7 teams
Skarmory - 15 points, 5 teams
Steelix - 15 points, 5 teams
Metagross - 14 points, 9 teams
Registeel - 13 points, 4 teams
A
Starmie - 12 points, 10 teams
Zapdos - 12 points, 4 teams
Gengar - 11 points, 4 teams
Snorlax - 9 points, 5 teams
B+
Gardevoir - 7 points, 2 teams
Wobbuffet - 6 points, 2 teams
Grumpig - 5 points, 2 teams
Tauros - 5 points, 2 teams
Umbreon - 5 points, 2 teams
Gyarados - 5 points, 1 team
B
Flygon - 4 points, 3 teams
Heracross - 4 points, 3 teams
Moltres - 4 points, 2 teams
Raikou - 4 points, 2 teams
Linoone - 4 points, 1 team
C+
Aerodactyl - 3 points, 2 teams
Breloom - 3 points, 2 teams
Regirock - 3 points, 1 team
Milotic - 2 points, 2 teams
C
Donphan - 2 points, 1 team
Hypno - 2 points, 1 team
Persian - 2 points, 1 team
Scizor - 2 points, 1 team
Smeargle - 2 points, 1 team
Tyranitar - 2 points, 1 team
Walrein - 2 points, 1 team
D
Forretress - 1 point, 1 team
Jolteon - 1 point, 1 team
Meganium - 1 point, 1 team
Ursaring - 1 point, 1 team
Some fun facts:
- Salamence is actually the most used Pokemon here!
- Despite their high usage, Metagross and Starmie have yet to appear on a team with 250+ wins...
- Gyarados's only usage comes from a 1000+ streak :o
- The only 4 Pokemon to be OU for Gens 1-4 ended up in A together :3
1000+ wins = 5 points
500-999 wins = 4 points
250-499 wins = 3 points
100-249 wins = 2 points
70-99 wins = 1 point
The end product is what I'm dubbing a Results-Based Tier List. This is definitely not an exhaustive list (no Swampert, for instance, despite Werster's famed run), just a compilation of what's worked best for the folks here on Smogon. Still, I figured other peeps new to the Tower might be interested in seeing at a quick glance what the most consistent mons really are~
S+
S
A+
A
B+
B
C+
C
D
Some fun facts:
- Salamence is actually the most used Pokemon here!
- Despite their high usage, Metagross and Starmie have yet to appear on a team with 250+ wins...
- Gyarados's only usage comes from a 1000+ streak :o
- The only 4 Pokemon to be OU for Gens 1-4 ended up in A together :3
Hello, reporting 164 Battle Tower wins with the following team:
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 140 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Explosion
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 2 Atk / 29 Def / 29 SpA
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Rest
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 140 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Explosion
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 2 Atk / 29 Def / 29 SpA
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Rest
Metagross is a carry-over from my Metagross-Gengar-Blissey team which is EV'd to take an Iron Tail + Earthquake from Steelix 4, Speed EV'd to outspeed everything up to Jynx. I'm used to the bulk of it, so I didn't change it. Aerial Ace is mandatory for Grass type Double Teamers.
Latios is standard CM Latios. Southern Island ACE + Battle Video RNG.
Swampert was Impish from when I was testing a Battle Palace, but I actually do prefer it to Careful. Specifically for one calc vs Machamp 6:
- 255+ Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Swampert: 94-111 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 255+ Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 104-123 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
On more than one occasion this has been incredibly useful, especially since there have been cases where Counter Machamp is able to OHKO Metagross and Latios is already KO'd previously. One v One for Swampert vs Machamp at around 40-45% (residual damage from Metagross locked into EQ), Swampert is almost always able to outspeed, Rock Slide on turn 1 to be safe from Counter, and EQ on the second for the KO even if Machamp crits.
4 Speed EVs to outspeed opposing base 60 speed.
Latios is standard CM Latios. Southern Island ACE + Battle Video RNG.
Swampert was Impish from when I was testing a Battle Palace, but I actually do prefer it to Careful. Specifically for one calc vs Machamp 6:
- 255+ Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Swampert: 94-111 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 255+ Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 104-123 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
On more than one occasion this has been incredibly useful, especially since there have been cases where Counter Machamp is able to OHKO Metagross and Latios is already KO'd previously. One v One for Swampert vs Machamp at around 40-45% (residual damage from Metagross locked into EQ), Swampert is almost always able to outspeed, Rock Slide on turn 1 to be safe from Counter, and EQ on the second for the KO even if Machamp crits.
4 Speed EVs to outspeed opposing base 60 speed.
The motivation for this team was that there was a question was posed in the server regarding how to better optimize getting to 100+ wins for the Gold Shield while still being restricted to Emerald only. I liked using Werster's original team when getting the Gold Symbol, but I felt there were some serious weaknesses on the original Swampert set (Surf/Toxic, Ice Beam, Earthquake, Protect) for longer streaks. First, not having any real recovery on Swampert hindered its ability as the sponge and link between Metagross and Latios. Second, the original set fails to take advantage of the numerous Electric/Fire types which would be setup fodder for Cursepert.
An example that can demonstrate both of these points would be against CoolTrainer Gillian: Assume you OHKO an Articuno or Regice lead with Metagross CB Meteor Mash, but the second Pokemon is Moltres. Not knowing the last Pokemon, you'd like to keep Metagross in case you'd like to explode, or maybe 3rd is Regirock which it can take on. But the last could also be Suicune, so it would be ideal to maintain Latios's HP to take on Suicune 2 (Dive, Toxic, Double Team, Rest). With CursePert, this scenario's switch is very clear. Even Moltres 4's Double Edge bounces off of it, especially with a few Curse boosts. It can safely get to +6/+6 and win this match 3-0.
I can also remember scenarios where the original Swampert set has some serious issues with Double Team Regirock and Registeel, especially Registeel 5 (Double Team, Toxic, Substitute, Focus Punch). Registeel 5 can beat the original set with a few dodges, but CursePert turns this into easy setup fodder as well.
An example that can demonstrate both of these points would be against CoolTrainer Gillian: Assume you OHKO an Articuno or Regice lead with Metagross CB Meteor Mash, but the second Pokemon is Moltres. Not knowing the last Pokemon, you'd like to keep Metagross in case you'd like to explode, or maybe 3rd is Regirock which it can take on. But the last could also be Suicune, so it would be ideal to maintain Latios's HP to take on Suicune 2 (Dive, Toxic, Double Team, Rest). With CursePert, this scenario's switch is very clear. Even Moltres 4's Double Edge bounces off of it, especially with a few Curse boosts. It can safely get to +6/+6 and win this match 3-0.
I can also remember scenarios where the original Swampert set has some serious issues with Double Team Regirock and Registeel, especially Registeel 5 (Double Team, Toxic, Substitute, Focus Punch). Registeel 5 can beat the original set with a few dodges, but CursePert turns this into easy setup fodder as well.
Male Torkoal with Curse at Level 7 (Egg Group: Field) with Female Rhyhorn line (Egg Group: Field/Monster)
Male Rhyhorn with Curse (Egg Group: Field/Monster) with Female Mudkip line (Egg Group: Monster/Water 1)
This chain breeding removes the need for Curse Slowpoke, which is what most people use to breed Cursepert.
Male Rhyhorn with Curse (Egg Group: Field/Monster) with Female Mudkip line (Egg Group: Monster/Water 1)
This chain breeding removes the need for Curse Slowpoke, which is what most people use to breed Cursepert.
Vs Expert Miranda. Lead is Latias 4. I miss two Meteor Mash but eventually kill it after it sets up Reflect, it gets 4 Shadow Balls off and Metagross is at around 38-40%. Next is Starmie 5. I switch to Latios on Surf (80% remaining). I CM, Starmie Light Screen. I CM again to match the Light Screen, it uses Psychic, crit again (now around 30% remaining). I CM again because +2 Thunderbolt is still a roll against the Light Screen (56%), and also I thought it would be very unlikely to get 2 crits so close to each other but of course it crits again and KO Latios.
This is still a manageable situation with Swampert, but of course the opponent crits the first Surf again as I EQ. I KO with the second EQ but Swampert is below 10%, and the last is Gardevoir which finishes off with Psychic on Swampert, then Fire Punch on Metagross.
This is still a manageable situation with Swampert, but of course the opponent crits the first Surf again as I EQ. I KO with the second EQ but Swampert is below 10%, and the last is Gardevoir which finishes off with Psychic on Swampert, then Fire Punch on Metagross.
I reached this streak on my second attempt, my previous one stopped around battle 98 to Heracross 3 who dodged a Psychic, then crit Megahorn on Swampert. There's nothing really I could've done about that, so I don't think that's really a reflection of the team performance. I'll continue to test, but taking the average would still put this team's average win to be well over the 105 needed for the Gold Shield, so I'm very happy about that, especially with the self-imposed teambuilding restriction.
Attachments
Hello everyone,
After careful review and deliberation - I am pleased to announce that the leaderboard has been updated. Many thanks to wtset for providing a list of streaks that had yet to be included since Jellal last updated the leaderboard. I also want to thank Adedede , Actaeon , wtset , and Wildcat Formation for their expertise and opinions regarding streak considerations.
We have added the following streaks for each facility here.
Some streaks are still under review for submissions. I am planning to privately message these individuals asking for additional information about their streaks. Please do not be alarmed or take it personally if your streak has not yet been included in this update!
As a reminder, please remember to include the full stats of your Pokémon in any given submission.
There will be additional posts to follow for any added streaks or rule changes otherwise.
Thank you very much!
After careful review and deliberation - I am pleased to announce that the leaderboard has been updated. Many thanks to wtset for providing a list of streaks that had yet to be included since Jellal last updated the leaderboard. I also want to thank Adedede , Actaeon , wtset , and Wildcat Formation for their expertise and opinions regarding streak considerations.
We have added the following streaks for each facility here.
- yu_song Level 50 Singles 70
- Jack Bash Level 50 Singles 177
- Thugly Duckling Level 50 Singles 105
- FShack Open Level Doubles 197
- Churly-Puik Open Level Doubles 144
- timfredo Open Level Singles 76
- Jirachee Level 50 Singles 80
- Alex_Super_Tramp Level 50 Singles 17
- timfredo Open Level 62
- Goomer22 Level 50 Doubles 128
- Scraf Level 50 Doubles 102
- LRXC Level 50 Doubles 101
- Dave Glorbus Level 50 Doubles 95
- Scraf Level 50 Doubles 83
- LRXC Level 50 Singles 155
- Gimmy Level 50 Singles 45
- Goomer22 Open Level Doubles 259
- Scraf Open Level Doubles 105
- Dave Glorbus Open Level Doubles 104
- Dave Glorbus Open Level Doubles 85
- LRXC Open Level Singles 101
- sam1oq Open Level Singles 86
- lllbisgod Open Level Singles 69
- timfredo Open Level Singles 61
- srsbest Open Level Singles 53
- frankfrank2k Open Level Singles 50
- Goomer22 Level 50 Doubles 122
- benben591 Level 50 Singles 140
- Doctor_Rob Open Level 1588
As a reminder, please remember to include the full stats of your Pokémon in any given submission.
There will be additional posts to follow for any added streaks or rule changes otherwise.
Thank you very much!
My first Gold Symbol! 42 Win Streak on Battle Palace, Open Level Singles. New around here so apologies if the formatting is wonky.
The team is built around Hasty Nature like so many others, nothing crazy there. I loved the appeal of Choice Band Slaking as a battering ram. Simple is good when you're relying on the RNG. The inconsistency of the AI's pokemon somewhat makes up for Truant too, as I'm not guaranteed to take a hit every truant turn.
Machamp is there for Rock/Steel/Ghost types and Raikou for Ghost types plus to provide some special attacking. The team is at Level 61 for Raikou's Crunch and I'm too lazy to grind up to Level 100. The gen 3 EVs on the roamers were a bit annoying but Raikou still packs a punch regardless.
Gold Symbol Battle
My strategy going into this was to keep Raikou healthy and try to at least go 1 for 1 with him the whole way. I figured if I could get Raikou in v his Suicune, any somewhat favourable RNG rolls would win me the battle.
Slaking came in and I got lucky with a turn 1 crit on Arcanine to knock it out. Machamp was able to bulk up on Slaking, and despite getting yawned and sleeping for two turns, the RNG played in my favour and Spenser's slaking refused to attack. Machamp took down Slaking and I found myself in a very comfy 3v1. I decided to stay in with Machamp and aim to get some chip damage on it before Raikou had to come in. Machamp kept the momentum - a lucky HP Ghost crit and quick claw rock slide to take down suicune and win the battle 3-0!
Looking back on this battle I got pretty lucky (2 crits and very minimal negative RNG) but sometimes you need a bit of luck! I ended up getting done in on the very next round by a Steelix who basically just Earthquaked me to death but I'm not too bothered, I figure I wanted to give some other facilities a go anyhow!
Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
Level: 61
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 27 HP / 28 Atk / 29 Def / 20 SpA / 17 SpD / 26 Spe
- Return
Raikou @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 61
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 28 HP / 7 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Crunch
- Calm Mind
Machamp @ Persim Berry
Ability: Guts
Level: 61
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 23 Def / 11 SpA / 22 SpD / 15 Spe
- Brick Break
- HP Ghost
- Rock Slide
- Bulk Up
Ability: Truant
Level: 61
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 27 HP / 28 Atk / 29 Def / 20 SpA / 17 SpD / 26 Spe
- Return
Raikou @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 61
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 28 HP / 7 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Crunch
- Calm Mind
Machamp @ Persim Berry
Ability: Guts
Level: 61
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 23 Def / 11 SpA / 22 SpD / 15 Spe
- Brick Break
- HP Ghost
- Rock Slide
- Bulk Up
The team is built around Hasty Nature like so many others, nothing crazy there. I loved the appeal of Choice Band Slaking as a battering ram. Simple is good when you're relying on the RNG. The inconsistency of the AI's pokemon somewhat makes up for Truant too, as I'm not guaranteed to take a hit every truant turn.
Machamp is there for Rock/Steel/Ghost types and Raikou for Ghost types plus to provide some special attacking. The team is at Level 61 for Raikou's Crunch and I'm too lazy to grind up to Level 100. The gen 3 EVs on the roamers were a bit annoying but Raikou still packs a punch regardless.
Gold Symbol Battle
My strategy going into this was to keep Raikou healthy and try to at least go 1 for 1 with him the whole way. I figured if I could get Raikou in v his Suicune, any somewhat favourable RNG rolls would win me the battle.
Slaking came in and I got lucky with a turn 1 crit on Arcanine to knock it out. Machamp was able to bulk up on Slaking, and despite getting yawned and sleeping for two turns, the RNG played in my favour and Spenser's slaking refused to attack. Machamp took down Slaking and I found myself in a very comfy 3v1. I decided to stay in with Machamp and aim to get some chip damage on it before Raikou had to come in. Machamp kept the momentum - a lucky HP Ghost crit and quick claw rock slide to take down suicune and win the battle 3-0!
Looking back on this battle I got pretty lucky (2 crits and very minimal negative RNG) but sometimes you need a bit of luck! I ended up getting done in on the very next round by a Steelix who basically just Earthquaked me to death but I'm not too bothered, I figure I wanted to give some other facilities a go anyhow!
Hello, reporting a 152 win streak in Battle Palace singles at level 50, and 105 win streak at level 100 with the following team. I exported my cartridge save to my PC to do on emulator for the 3x speed because I was recording the streaks.
Teambuilding Process:
The two are essentially the same team, with a little speed EV modification for Level 100. For the Latios I specifically re-started one of my Emerald cartridges, ACE’ed and battle video RNG’ed for this challenge.
For a while now, I’ve been trying to create a new team with better consistency for longer streaks. I still like my Hasty-Substitute teams but for consistently long streaks they can be a bit too frail. The lack of set-up ability outside of pinch berries also made it hard to counter the opponents set up mons.
Reading the writeups on 100+ streak teams like wtset’s Slaking-Suicune-Venusaur team and Actaeon’s Salamence – Suicune – Snorlax team made me think about putting a Choice Band user and a Curse user on the team. Their use of Curse was genius. Curse is the only boosting move categorized as Support due it being so for Ghost-types. It being separate from all recovery moves allows for optimization in behavior, since there are so many natures that have a >50% chance of Defense if HP falls below 50%. Additionally, having Curse, recovery, and an attack covers all 3 categories of moves, so no turn is wasted. Aside from Substitute, it is the best move in the Battle Palace.
At the time, I realized I had just created a team with a Choice Band user and a Curse user for the Tower (Slaking-Gengar-Snorlax), so why not modify it for Palace? I tested the following team a few times:
This is a ~good~ team (streaks were somewhere between 70-90), but it has a few more flaws than I’d like. Slaking picking the wrong move can be disastrous given Truant. Gengar isn’t as strong as Latios (Psychic will not KO most Machamp, Ice Punch does not KO Salamence 6, etc.). There’s quite a lot of pressure on CurseLax to absorb hits with this team in Palace. Without control of its moves, it can become quite passive (more on this later), leaving it susceptible to critical hits. The team also does not have many resistances.
So, I decided to swap Slaking -> Metagross, and Gengar-> Latios. Now the team was Sassy CB Metagross, Sub-Hasty 3 attack Latios, and Impish CurseLax. After a few tests, I realized this team is now very weak to opposition Metagross, Heracross, and the Regis, especially setup Regirock and Registeel. Swampert felt like a natural replacement for Snorlax.
I test out this team a few times and it performs better than the Slaking team, but one streak ends with a loss to Spenser because Latios decides to continue Subbing as Suicune CMs up and kills it with Blizzard. I take a break from Palace to try out this Tower team which plays essentially the same way, with the exception being that Latios has Calm Mind instead of Substitute. I make this change for Palace as well. Now the battle against Slaking is fairly optimized (Swampert vs Arcanine, stay/sack Swampert + Metagross vs Slaking, Latios switch in on Suicune or Latios finishes off Slaking on Truant turn after Metagross is KO’d to 1 v 1 Suicune).
One last change: I noticed that with Impish Cursepert, if the behavior changes, it will get stuck in a Rest loop, even if it is over 50% after waking up. This is because once that behavior change is triggered, it is not reset until the Pokemon is switched out with >50% health. If a team has more than one bulky Pokemon with recovery I think this may not be an issue, since it’s easier to switch out to reset, but with my offensive team I didn’t think it was optimal for Swampert to be in a Rest loop and be so susceptible to crits, side effects, opponent boosts, etc. I changed the nature to Relaxed (60% chance to Curse when >50%, 75% chance to Attack when below 50%), and give it a Chesto Berry. Now it curses up, but actually attacks. Sometimes it will Rest early, so Chesto is useful to not let it waste turns. Occasionally, it will Rest after falling below 50% too, so when it wakes up it’s a boosted Swampert that almost always attacks. In the replays, it shows that this Relaxed Swampert can 3-0 Spenser by itself, although one downside is that it tends to over-Curse in the beginning.
Overall, I really enjoyed the whole testing and teambuilding process and realized that there’s still so much more to be explored for the Battle Palace. There are still so many Pokemon/natures/move combinations that haven’t been experimented with for long streaks. I’m curious to see what the next breakthrough will be.
Video URLS:
Level 50:
Level 100:
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Aerial Ace
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 40 HP / 244 SpA / 224 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 29 Def / 27 SpD / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Swampert @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Rest
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Aerial Ace
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 40 HP / 244 SpA / 224 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 29 Def / 27 SpD / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Swampert @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Rest
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 216 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 248 SpA / 220 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 29 Def / 27 SpD / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Swampert @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Rest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 216 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 248 SpA / 220 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 29 Def / 27 SpD / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Swampert @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Rest
Metagross Lv 50: 160/187/150/107/121/106
Latios Lv 50: 160/95/89/181/128/173
Swampert Lv 50: 207/130/121/97/138/76
Metagross Lv 100: 310/369/297/210/237/207
Latios Lv 100: 310/185/174/358/252/341
Swampert Lv 100: 404/256/237/190/272/147
Metagross to hit 106 Speed for Level 50, 207 for Open Level, rest in Atk first then HP.
Latios to hit 173 Speed for Level 50, 341 for Open Level, most in SpAtk, some HP for a round number.
Swampert to hit 76 Speed for Level 50, 147 for Open Level, rest in HP first then SpDef.
Latios Lv 50: 160/95/89/181/128/173
Swampert Lv 50: 207/130/121/97/138/76
Metagross Lv 100: 310/369/297/210/237/207
Latios Lv 100: 310/185/174/358/252/341
Swampert Lv 100: 404/256/237/190/272/147
Metagross to hit 106 Speed for Level 50, 207 for Open Level, rest in Atk first then HP.
Latios to hit 173 Speed for Level 50, 341 for Open Level, most in SpAtk, some HP for a round number.
Swampert to hit 76 Speed for Level 50, 147 for Open Level, rest in HP first then SpDef.
Teambuilding Process:
The two are essentially the same team, with a little speed EV modification for Level 100. For the Latios I specifically re-started one of my Emerald cartridges, ACE’ed and battle video RNG’ed for this challenge.
For a while now, I’ve been trying to create a new team with better consistency for longer streaks. I still like my Hasty-Substitute teams but for consistently long streaks they can be a bit too frail. The lack of set-up ability outside of pinch berries also made it hard to counter the opponents set up mons.
Reading the writeups on 100+ streak teams like wtset’s Slaking-Suicune-Venusaur team and Actaeon’s Salamence – Suicune – Snorlax team made me think about putting a Choice Band user and a Curse user on the team. Their use of Curse was genius. Curse is the only boosting move categorized as Support due it being so for Ghost-types. It being separate from all recovery moves allows for optimization in behavior, since there are so many natures that have a >50% chance of Defense if HP falls below 50%. Additionally, having Curse, recovery, and an attack covers all 3 categories of moves, so no turn is wasted. Aside from Substitute, it is the best move in the Battle Palace.
At the time, I realized I had just created a team with a Choice Band user and a Curse user for the Tower (Slaking-Gengar-Snorlax), so why not modify it for Palace? I tested the following team a few times:
Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 44 Atk / 172 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Rest
Gengar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
Ability: Truant
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 44 Atk / 172 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Rest
Gengar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
This is a ~good~ team (streaks were somewhere between 70-90), but it has a few more flaws than I’d like. Slaking picking the wrong move can be disastrous given Truant. Gengar isn’t as strong as Latios (Psychic will not KO most Machamp, Ice Punch does not KO Salamence 6, etc.). There’s quite a lot of pressure on CurseLax to absorb hits with this team in Palace. Without control of its moves, it can become quite passive (more on this later), leaving it susceptible to critical hits. The team also does not have many resistances.
So, I decided to swap Slaking -> Metagross, and Gengar-> Latios. Now the team was Sassy CB Metagross, Sub-Hasty 3 attack Latios, and Impish CurseLax. After a few tests, I realized this team is now very weak to opposition Metagross, Heracross, and the Regis, especially setup Regirock and Registeel. Swampert felt like a natural replacement for Snorlax.
I test out this team a few times and it performs better than the Slaking team, but one streak ends with a loss to Spenser because Latios decides to continue Subbing as Suicune CMs up and kills it with Blizzard. I take a break from Palace to try out this Tower team which plays essentially the same way, with the exception being that Latios has Calm Mind instead of Substitute. I make this change for Palace as well. Now the battle against Slaking is fairly optimized (Swampert vs Arcanine, stay/sack Swampert + Metagross vs Slaking, Latios switch in on Suicune or Latios finishes off Slaking on Truant turn after Metagross is KO’d to 1 v 1 Suicune).
One last change: I noticed that with Impish Cursepert, if the behavior changes, it will get stuck in a Rest loop, even if it is over 50% after waking up. This is because once that behavior change is triggered, it is not reset until the Pokemon is switched out with >50% health. If a team has more than one bulky Pokemon with recovery I think this may not be an issue, since it’s easier to switch out to reset, but with my offensive team I didn’t think it was optimal for Swampert to be in a Rest loop and be so susceptible to crits, side effects, opponent boosts, etc. I changed the nature to Relaxed (60% chance to Curse when >50%, 75% chance to Attack when below 50%), and give it a Chesto Berry. Now it curses up, but actually attacks. Sometimes it will Rest early, so Chesto is useful to not let it waste turns. Occasionally, it will Rest after falling below 50% too, so when it wakes up it’s a boosted Swampert that almost always attacks. In the replays, it shows that this Relaxed Swampert can 3-0 Spenser by itself, although one downside is that it tends to over-Curse in the beginning.
Overall, I really enjoyed the whole testing and teambuilding process and realized that there’s still so much more to be explored for the Battle Palace. There are still so many Pokemon/natures/move combinations that haven’t been experimented with for long streaks. I’m curious to see what the next breakthrough will be.
Video URLS:
Level 50:
Level 100:
Hello everyone! It’s quite possible that this will be my last streak I share with you, as my life is entering a new stage and it’s becoming harder for me to keep investing time in this wonderful game. After more than a decade of playing Emerald more or less consistently, I set myself one final challenge: to break my previous record of 474 floors in the Battle Pyramid and, along the way, create a complete map with all the possible layouts of walls, trainers, items and floor exits. I finished the map a few months ago and shared it with you, but now I’ve decided to pause my streak (perhaps forever) at 100 completed rounds (700 floors).
Battle Pyramid. Floors cleared: 700 (ongoing, paused). Open Level. Retail.
King Kong (Slaking) @ Choice Band
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6/252/0/0/0/252
Level 100 Stats: 442/460/236/203/166/299
Adamant Nature, Male.
- Return
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Hyper Beam
Used in every single round.
Hueva (Blissey) @ Leftovers
IVs: 31/4/31/30/31/31
EVs: 252/0/252/0/0/4
Level 100 Stats: 714/26/130/185/306/147
Ability: Natural Cure
Bold Nature, Female.
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
Used in every single round.
Oniiros (Latios) @ Shell Bell
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4/0/0/252/0/252
Level 100 Stats: 302/194/196/394/256/319
Modest Nature, Male.
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Claw / Surf
Used in rounds 2, 3, 5, 10, 11, 12, 15, 18, 19.
Muslotes (Medicham) @ Choice Band
IVs: 31/31/31/15/31/31
EVs: 4/252/0/0/0/252
Level 100 Stats: 262/219(438)/186/126/186/284
Jolly Nature, Female.
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball
-Hyper Beam
- Reversal
Used in rounds 4, 6, 7, 9, 14, 16, 20.
Saphira (Salamence) @ Choice Band or Shell Bell
IVs: 31/31/30/31/30/30
EVs: 28/252/0/0/0/228
Level 100 Stats: 338/405/195/230/195/292
Adamant Nature, Female.
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break / Earthquake
- Hidden Power Rock 70
- Flamethrower
Used in rounds 1, 13, 17.
Nix (Gengar) @ Shell Bell
IVs: 31/4/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6/0/0/252/0/252
Level 100 Stats: 262/125/156/394/186/319
Modest Nature, Female
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Destiny Bond
Used only in round 8 (wild pkmn using explosion).
I would also like to warmly ask Valentino23 to review my Battle Pike (341) and Palace Double (62) streaks, both Level 100. The text in the leaderboard that says “Win here pls, (∞) - (Nothing here)” is bothering me a little
haha. These are the original posts:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...r-discussion-and-records.3648697/post-9587707 (Palace Doubles Open Level)
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...r-discussion-and-records.3648697/post-9554348 (Pike Open Level, scroll until the end of the post)
For what it's worth, here are the IVs and EVs of the pkmn used in those streaks:
Pike (open level):
Many thanks to all the members of this beautiful community. I wish you all the best! Farewell.
Battle Pyramid. Floors cleared: 700 (ongoing, paused). Open Level. Retail.
King Kong (Slaking) @ Choice Band
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6/252/0/0/0/252
Level 100 Stats: 442/460/236/203/166/299
Adamant Nature, Male.
- Return
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Hyper Beam
Used in every single round.
Hueva (Blissey) @ Leftovers
IVs: 31/4/31/30/31/31
EVs: 252/0/252/0/0/4
Level 100 Stats: 714/26/130/185/306/147
Ability: Natural Cure
Bold Nature, Female.
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
Used in every single round.
Oniiros (Latios) @ Shell Bell
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4/0/0/252/0/252
Level 100 Stats: 302/194/196/394/256/319
Modest Nature, Male.
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Claw / Surf
Used in rounds 2, 3, 5, 10, 11, 12, 15, 18, 19.
Muslotes (Medicham) @ Choice Band
IVs: 31/31/31/15/31/31
EVs: 4/252/0/0/0/252
Level 100 Stats: 262/219(438)/186/126/186/284
Jolly Nature, Female.
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball
-Hyper Beam
- Reversal
Used in rounds 4, 6, 7, 9, 14, 16, 20.
Saphira (Salamence) @ Choice Band or Shell Bell
IVs: 31/31/30/31/30/30
EVs: 28/252/0/0/0/228
Level 100 Stats: 338/405/195/230/195/292
Adamant Nature, Female.
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break / Earthquake
- Hidden Power Rock 70
- Flamethrower
Used in rounds 1, 13, 17.
Nix (Gengar) @ Shell Bell
IVs: 31/4/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6/0/0/252/0/252
Level 100 Stats: 262/125/156/394/186/319
Modest Nature, Female
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Destiny Bond
Used only in round 8 (wild pkmn using explosion).
I always use Slaking and Blissey in every single round. The third slot is chosen based on the wild pkmn. Slaking has Return and not Double Edge because recoil damage is not welcome here. I cloned Latios, so one has Dragon Claw (for rounds 2, 11, 15, 18) and the other one has Surf (rounds 3, 5, 10, 12, 19). Salamence has Flamethrower specifically for Forretress, Skarmory and Scizor. Medicham has Hyper Beam to deal with opposing bug, poison and flying types, like Heracross, Pinsir, Venusaur, Vileplume, Nidoking, Charizard, Mantine, etc. Some others like Dragonite, Muk, Nidoqueen and Weezing can resist it, btw.
I believe these six are perfectly capable of continuing the streak indefinitely, as long as battles against trainers are avoided as much as possible (using the map). I don't remember having any difficulties during the streak, at no time did I see my goal in danger, and rather I ended up with 198 hyper potions (2x99), 99 lum berries, 97 revives and 99 ethers. Once you find the Choice Band and give it to Slaking, it’s game over for the NPCs and wild mons.
I believe these six are perfectly capable of continuing the streak indefinitely, as long as battles against trainers are avoided as much as possible (using the map). I don't remember having any difficulties during the streak, at no time did I see my goal in danger, and rather I ended up with 198 hyper potions (2x99), 99 lum berries, 97 revives and 99 ethers. Once you find the Choice Band and give it to Slaking, it’s game over for the NPCs and wild mons.
- When there are 4 NPCs simultaneously in the same quadrant (“ambush”), it means that the entrance or exit of the floor is located in that quadrant.
- In quadrants that have 2 possible locations for NPCs (quadrants F, N, O, P, see map below), I’ve only ever seen 1 NPC in the quadrant; there are never 2 NPCs occupying both locations.
- In quadrants that have space for 4 NPCs (all except F, N, O, P), only 1 or 4 NPCs can appear; I’ve never seen just 2 or 3 NPCs appear simultaneously in the quadrant.
- When there is an ambush in the quadrant where you start (entrance to the floor), there are no more trainers in the other quadrants on that floor. So, once you escape the initial ambush, the rest of the floor is safe.
- When there’s an ambush in the quadrant where the exit is located, there can be other solitary NPCs in other quadrants (1 or 2 at most).
- I’ve never seen a quadrant with 2 items simultaneously. Only 1 item per quadrant.
- There’s usually an NPC in the quadrant that has an item (“guardian NPC”).
- Quadrants F, G, and P usually appear on early floors.
- Quadrants A, B, and C generally appear on floors 5, 6, or 7. Sometimes, the floor is completely empty (no walls: quadrant A repeated across the whole floor), or the grid of quadrants B and C is repeated throughout the entire floor.
- NPCs' field of view is STRICTLY restricted to the quadrant they are in. They can never notice you when you are walking in an adjacent quadrant, even if they are facing you. This is very useful to avoid battles against trainers: you can cross into the adjacent quadrant to avoid a fight and then enter again to reach the exit, for example.
I would also like to warmly ask Valentino23 to review my Battle Pike (341) and Palace Double (62) streaks, both Level 100. The text in the leaderboard that says “Win here pls, (∞) - (Nothing here)” is bothering me a little
haha. These are the original posts:https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...r-discussion-and-records.3648697/post-9587707 (Palace Doubles Open Level)
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...r-discussion-and-records.3648697/post-9554348 (Pike Open Level, scroll until the end of the post)
For what it's worth, here are the IVs and EVs of the pkmn used in those streaks:
Pike (open level):
- Oniiros (Latios): 31/31/31/31/31/31 – 4/0/0/252/0/252 (I hit the frame 2 964 478 064, method 1, Southern Island, PID 685011A9, thanks to Sleipnir17’s ACE tutorial to RNG abuse very high frames).
- Axel (Swampert): 31/31/30/31/30/30 – 168/252/0/0/0/88 (bred).
- Hueva (Blissey): 31/4/31/30/31/31 – 252/0/252/0/0/4 (bred).
- Gordon (Snorlax): 31/31/31/5/31/31 – 160/68/136/0/144/0 (bred).
- Drimoto (Latias): 31/14/31/31/31/31 – 252/0/252/0/0/4 (frame 2 270 091 483, method 1, Southern Island, PID 45EEFCF6).
- Goroka (Gyarados): 30/31/31/26/26/26 – 120/252/0/0/0/136 (frame 14 272 586, method H2, surfing in Sootopolis, PID 246524C8, Lead: adamant Kadabra with Synchronize).
Many thanks to all the members of this beautiful community. I wish you all the best! Farewell.
Last edited:
Started my first Emerald Battle Tower run and just got the Gold Symbol. My team uses Kommo-o's lead Latias with submenceisop's SubDDMence. The glue holding them together is a Vaporeon, running the same moves as submenceisop's Zapdos. All three were RNGed on Emerald on emu, with the trainer name Snazzy.
Basic strategy: Latias Twaves whatever isn't immune, then usually brings the enemy to -6 Accuracy and Attack. From there, it either PP stalls or switches over to Vap, who will set up and maybe PP stall as well. BP to Mence, who usually snags 6 DDs and steamrolls the opposing team. I kept notes for Rounds 8-10. Am rusty at mons and made a few misplays, but this team's been great so far at hangin in there for me :3
Stats:
Latias: 181 HP / 77 Atk / 119 Def / 129 SpA / 150 SpD / 173 Spe
Vaporeon: 237 HP / 63 Atk / 123 Def / 130 SpA / 115 SpD / 86 Spe
Salamence: 201 HP / 205 Atk / 100 Def / 108 SpA / 100 SpD / 122 Spe
Mara (Latias) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: No
EVs: 212 HP / 76 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 2 Atk / 29 Def / 29 SpA
- Thunder Wave
- Charm
- Flash
- Recover
Buster (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
Shiny: No
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Double Team
Amelia (Salamence) (F) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Shiny: No
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 11 SpA
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: No
EVs: 212 HP / 76 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 2 Atk / 29 Def / 29 SpA
- Thunder Wave
- Charm
- Flash
- Recover
Buster (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
Shiny: No
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Double Team
Amelia (Salamence) (F) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Shiny: No
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 11 SpA
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
G1 - vs lead Porygon2. TWave, Pory full paras. Flash as it reveals IB, confirmed #4. Continue Flashing + Recovering until -6, then Charm to -6 and PP stall IB / Psych / Tbolt. Free setup to +6 on Recover for Vap -> Mence. Cleaned P2 / Golduck / Donphan.
G2 - vs lead Lax. Charm as it Curses, then Twave as it Curses again. It reveals Double-Edge and Shadow Ball as I get it to -6 Attack & Accuracy. Switch to Vap for usual setup. Lax lands a few hits against Sub, but fails to break. Mence kills in 2 hits (Lax was at ~1/3 health due to DE recoil). Slaking and Ludicolo are clean OHKOs with AA.
G3 - vs lead Metagross. Twave as it SBalls, Recover as it MMs. Sac Lati so Vap gets in freely. Get to +6 and pass, then get 2 DDs up on Mence. Meta breaks the sub, so make a new one as it misses, then EQ it to be safe. Next mon Latios, AA as it DDs. AA again for KO. EQ crits last mon Registeel.
G4 - vs lead Cradily. Twave as it Subs, confirming SunnyBeamer set. Even though Lati can't do anything else vs a Sub, keep it in to PP stall SolarBeam. Switch to Vap once it's safe to set up. After 6 DDs, Mence cleans Cradily / Walrein / Shuckle.
G5 - vs lead Slowbro. Twave as it Rain Dances, confirming Set 1. Flash to -6, then Charm to -6, Recovering as needed. Stay in long enough to PP stall Ice Punch, then switch to Vap. Usual set up, though Bro did break Mence's Sub twice. Safely clean Bro / Arcanine / Charizard.
G6 - vs lead Altaria. Twave as it fully paras, Charm as it Dragon Claws. Flash as it DCs again, then Recover. Manage to get it to -4 Accuracy before goin down to a crit. Vap sets up + PP stalls a bit, then Mence gets to +6. Clean Altaria / Machamp / Charizard
G7 - vs lead Sceptile. Twave as it DTs and reveals Lum. Flash as it continues DTing, then it uses Attract. Stay in and get it to -5 while PP stalling both Leaf Blade + TPunch. Safe Vap setup, Mence cleans Sceptile / Quick Claw Blaziken / Typhlosion
G2 - vs lead Lax. Charm as it Curses, then Twave as it Curses again. It reveals Double-Edge and Shadow Ball as I get it to -6 Attack & Accuracy. Switch to Vap for usual setup. Lax lands a few hits against Sub, but fails to break. Mence kills in 2 hits (Lax was at ~1/3 health due to DE recoil). Slaking and Ludicolo are clean OHKOs with AA.
G3 - vs lead Metagross. Twave as it SBalls, Recover as it MMs. Sac Lati so Vap gets in freely. Get to +6 and pass, then get 2 DDs up on Mence. Meta breaks the sub, so make a new one as it misses, then EQ it to be safe. Next mon Latios, AA as it DDs. AA again for KO. EQ crits last mon Registeel.
G4 - vs lead Cradily. Twave as it Subs, confirming SunnyBeamer set. Even though Lati can't do anything else vs a Sub, keep it in to PP stall SolarBeam. Switch to Vap once it's safe to set up. After 6 DDs, Mence cleans Cradily / Walrein / Shuckle.
G5 - vs lead Slowbro. Twave as it Rain Dances, confirming Set 1. Flash to -6, then Charm to -6, Recovering as needed. Stay in long enough to PP stall Ice Punch, then switch to Vap. Usual set up, though Bro did break Mence's Sub twice. Safely clean Bro / Arcanine / Charizard.
G6 - vs lead Altaria. Twave as it fully paras, Charm as it Dragon Claws. Flash as it DCs again, then Recover. Manage to get it to -4 Accuracy before goin down to a crit. Vap sets up + PP stalls a bit, then Mence gets to +6. Clean Altaria / Machamp / Charizard
G7 - vs lead Sceptile. Twave as it DTs and reveals Lum. Flash as it continues DTing, then it uses Attract. Stay in and get it to -5 while PP stalling both Leaf Blade + TPunch. Safe Vap setup, Mence cleans Sceptile / Quick Claw Blaziken / Typhlosion
G1 - vs lead Espeon. Twave as it CMs, no Lum on it. Flash as it Attracts, confirming set 4. Only get 2 Flashes off as it CMs up + Bites Lati to death. Vap slowly sets up between Protects and stalls out its Psychic + Bite PP. Mence gets to +2 before gettin hit with attract, so I just AA to get rid of it. AA twice vs Lapras, which misses IB. Another two AAs vs Leftovers Milotic, which also missed IB.
G2 - vs lead Dewgong. Twave reveals Lum as it IBs, which crits + KOs Lati. Extra scary, as this one packs Sheer Cold and outspeeds Vap. Vap's able to set up + PP stall, though, allowing Mence to hit +6 and clean Dewgong / Altaria / Tauros.
G3 - vs lead Aggron. Charm as it DEs (set 4), then TWave and Charm to -6. Then Flash to -6, PP stall, and go to Vap on the Struggle. Mence gets to +6, then cleans Aggron / Armaldo / Dugtrio
G4 - vs lead Whiscash. Flash misses as it Future Sights (Set 2). Was surprised to learn Whiscash gets an Electric attack (Spark), lol. Get it to -6 Accuracy / Attack, then PP stall to be safe. Usual Vap + Mence setup, sweep Whiscash / Crawdaunt / Kingler
G5 - vs lead Tauros. Twave as it crit DEs, Lati survived w/ 1 HP. Lefties recovery reveals Set 3. Was gonna sac Lati to get 1 Charm in, but Tauros EQed next. Recovered back up, got it to -6 Attack & Accuracy, stalled IB PP, and switched to Vap. Usual setup, Mence cleaned Tauros / Slowking / Golduck
G6 - vs lead Gardevoir. Twave as it Magic Leafs, no Lum so it's 1 or 8. Two Flashes later, it reveals Hypnosis, confirming set 1. Get it to -6 Accuracy (and Attack), PP stall Magical Leaf so Vap can safely set up. Mence sweep at +5 (Reflect wore off, so just went for it) Gardevoir / Registeel / Crobat
G7 - vs lead Dusclops. Twave as it fully paras, Charm as it Curses (set 4). Get it to -6 Attack and Accuracy, then PP stall as best Lati can. Eventually a crit SBall takes her down. Vap + Mence set up issue-free, Mence cleans Dusclops / Registeel / Miltank
G2 - vs lead Dewgong. Twave reveals Lum as it IBs, which crits + KOs Lati. Extra scary, as this one packs Sheer Cold and outspeeds Vap. Vap's able to set up + PP stall, though, allowing Mence to hit +6 and clean Dewgong / Altaria / Tauros.
G3 - vs lead Aggron. Charm as it DEs (set 4), then TWave and Charm to -6. Then Flash to -6, PP stall, and go to Vap on the Struggle. Mence gets to +6, then cleans Aggron / Armaldo / Dugtrio
G4 - vs lead Whiscash. Flash misses as it Future Sights (Set 2). Was surprised to learn Whiscash gets an Electric attack (Spark), lol. Get it to -6 Accuracy / Attack, then PP stall to be safe. Usual Vap + Mence setup, sweep Whiscash / Crawdaunt / Kingler
G5 - vs lead Tauros. Twave as it crit DEs, Lati survived w/ 1 HP. Lefties recovery reveals Set 3. Was gonna sac Lati to get 1 Charm in, but Tauros EQed next. Recovered back up, got it to -6 Attack & Accuracy, stalled IB PP, and switched to Vap. Usual setup, Mence cleaned Tauros / Slowking / Golduck
G6 - vs lead Gardevoir. Twave as it Magic Leafs, no Lum so it's 1 or 8. Two Flashes later, it reveals Hypnosis, confirming set 1. Get it to -6 Accuracy (and Attack), PP stall Magical Leaf so Vap can safely set up. Mence sweep at +5 (Reflect wore off, so just went for it) Gardevoir / Registeel / Crobat
G7 - vs lead Dusclops. Twave as it fully paras, Charm as it Curses (set 4). Get it to -6 Attack and Accuracy, then PP stall as best Lati can. Eventually a crit SBall takes her down. Vap + Mence set up issue-free, Mence cleans Dusclops / Registeel / Miltank
G1 - vs lead Registeel. Twave as it fully paras. Nothing else Lati can do to it, but Charmed just to scout the set. It Amnesias, so either 1 or 3. Switch to Vap in case it also carries Curse. As Vap sets up, Registeel reveals it is carrying Curse, so set 1. Vap quickly sets up, passes to Mence, who sets up as well but loses 4 Subs in the process. Def should've PP stalled with Vap, was unnecessarily close, but Mence 2HKOs, then cleans Regice and Forretress
G2 - vs lead Xatu. Twave as it Drill Pecks. After a few Charms, it reveals Psychic (and scores the SDef drop). Lati gets it to -6 Attack & Accuracy (reveals Steel Wing, so set 3). Vap + Mence easily set up, sweep Xatu / Dodrio / Snorlax
G3 - vs lead Meganium. Twave as it DTs, set 2. Lati gets a few Flashes in before it Subs up. Vap dodges the Leech Seed on the switch in, then safely gets it own Sub up, completely walling this thing. Mence cleans Meganium / Fearow / Magmar
G4 - vs lead Whiscash. Flash as it misses IB. Set 4, w/ QC Fissure, gotta be careful. Lum saves Lati from a freeze and it Recovers off a crit, potential doom. Lati's able to stall out the IB PP, then bring Whiscash to -6 Accuracy & Attack. To be safe, I PP stall until Whiscash is Struggling. Usual setup, Mence cleans Whiscash / Tentacruel / Miltank
G5 - vs lead Vileplume. It QC Sludge Bombs as I Twave, so set 4. QC SolarBeam could be an issue for Vap, so I opt to PP stall w/ Lati again. Once it used Synthesis, I switched to Vap for the easy setup. Mence cleaned Vileplume / Xatu / Sceptile
G6 - vs lead Muk. Twave into Lum as it crits Sludge Bomb. Was able to Recover back up, Twave again, and eventually Charm + Flash it down, but this was a surprisingly long bout. Getting poisoned was a perk, since it safeguarded against freeze. Opted to PP stall it fully with Lati (ended up with 1 Recover to spare, lol). You know what Vap + Mence do next; swept Muk / Machamp / Scizor
G7 - vs Salon Maiden Anabel. Twave into Lum as Raikou CMs, then Twave again as it Tbolts. Get it to -6 Accuracy and -4 Attack before goin down to crit Tbolt. Vap stalls out the remaining Tbolts and sets up freely. Raikou goes down to EQ, Latios popped Mence's Sub (survived AA thanks to Reflect) but at that point AA safely cleaned it and Lax
G2 - vs lead Xatu. Twave as it Drill Pecks. After a few Charms, it reveals Psychic (and scores the SDef drop). Lati gets it to -6 Attack & Accuracy (reveals Steel Wing, so set 3). Vap + Mence easily set up, sweep Xatu / Dodrio / Snorlax
G3 - vs lead Meganium. Twave as it DTs, set 2. Lati gets a few Flashes in before it Subs up. Vap dodges the Leech Seed on the switch in, then safely gets it own Sub up, completely walling this thing. Mence cleans Meganium / Fearow / Magmar
G4 - vs lead Whiscash. Flash as it misses IB. Set 4, w/ QC Fissure, gotta be careful. Lum saves Lati from a freeze and it Recovers off a crit, potential doom. Lati's able to stall out the IB PP, then bring Whiscash to -6 Accuracy & Attack. To be safe, I PP stall until Whiscash is Struggling. Usual setup, Mence cleans Whiscash / Tentacruel / Miltank
G5 - vs lead Vileplume. It QC Sludge Bombs as I Twave, so set 4. QC SolarBeam could be an issue for Vap, so I opt to PP stall w/ Lati again. Once it used Synthesis, I switched to Vap for the easy setup. Mence cleaned Vileplume / Xatu / Sceptile
G6 - vs lead Muk. Twave into Lum as it crits Sludge Bomb. Was able to Recover back up, Twave again, and eventually Charm + Flash it down, but this was a surprisingly long bout. Getting poisoned was a perk, since it safeguarded against freeze. Opted to PP stall it fully with Lati (ended up with 1 Recover to spare, lol). You know what Vap + Mence do next; swept Muk / Machamp / Scizor
G7 - vs Salon Maiden Anabel. Twave into Lum as Raikou CMs, then Twave again as it Tbolts. Get it to -6 Accuracy and -4 Attack before goin down to crit Tbolt. Vap stalls out the remaining Tbolts and sets up freely. Raikou goes down to EQ, Latios popped Mence's Sub (survived AA thanks to Reflect) but at that point AA safely cleaned it and Lax
Latias: 181 HP / 77 Atk / 119 Def / 129 SpA / 150 SpD / 173 Spe
Vaporeon: 237 HP / 63 Atk / 123 Def / 130 SpA / 115 SpD / 86 Spe
Salamence: 201 HP / 205 Atk / 100 Def / 108 SpA / 100 SpD / 122 Spe
Still new to this Tower and haven't checked out all the individual sets, but definitely a few issues I can see. In general:
- BoltBeamers can be tough, especially with CM or QC. I usually try to PP stall them, since they can be a real headache with bad luck
- Moves that always hit (like AA, Magical Leaf, etc.) ignore Flash and DT, meaning they should be PP stalled out to avoid any issues
- Clear Body mons, particularly Metagross, are a fright. They render Latias useless outside of Twave, meaning Vap has to do some heavy lifting
- Reflect users and Def boosters can potentially slow down Mence, which is a pain
- Attract - Why does this work through Sub? My team alternates gender to avoid this getting out of hand
- OHKO move users, especially with QC, are scary for every team. This squad's p good at dodging, at least, but can't get lucky forever~
- Ground leads are immune to Twave, so Lati can only debuff their Attack + Accuracy; they often outspeed Vap
- Roar / Whirlwind can undo all my setup, which is brutal. They're thankfully affected by accuracy / evasion, and the AI doesn't seem to use it too often. I usually try to keep Lati + especially Vap healthy in case we have to start again, though
- BoltBeamers can be tough, especially with CM or QC. I usually try to PP stall them, since they can be a real headache with bad luck
- Moves that always hit (like AA, Magical Leaf, etc.) ignore Flash and DT, meaning they should be PP stalled out to avoid any issues
- Clear Body mons, particularly Metagross, are a fright. They render Latias useless outside of Twave, meaning Vap has to do some heavy lifting
- Reflect users and Def boosters can potentially slow down Mence, which is a pain
- Attract - Why does this work through Sub? My team alternates gender to avoid this getting out of hand
- OHKO move users, especially with QC, are scary for every team. This squad's p good at dodging, at least, but can't get lucky forever~
- Ground leads are immune to Twave, so Lati can only debuff their Attack + Accuracy; they often outspeed Vap
- Roar / Whirlwind can undo all my setup, which is brutal. They're thankfully affected by accuracy / evasion, and the AI doesn't seem to use it too often. I usually try to keep Lati + especially Vap healthy in case we have to start again, though
Last edited:
Small update for transparency: Unfortunately we've noticed that the period of time where submissions were not added to the leaderboard goes back quite a bit further than we initially assumed. Today I've compiled a list of these additional even earlier submissions we need to check. These include streaks by Carloss97 QuentinQuonce ScorpiusTheKid MrShinx potatobagel iamgalt Boosted CV Texas Cloverleaf Jheisinho Yagyu27 ReshiRampage lllaser Ferds Tinto Ritza Churly-Puik Jeez Louise soda-za Chamale nikocsub iPodwithnomusic .
We will try to check those streaks in the next days (or probably more realistically week(s) because as you can see there are quite a lot), and either add them to the leaderboard or reach out to those where we have some doubts and/or need more information. Again, thanks for all of your patience!
We will try to check those streaks in the next days (or probably more realistically week(s) because as you can see there are quite a lot), and either add them to the leaderboard or reach out to those where we have some doubts and/or need more information. Again, thanks for all of your patience!
Good morning, I've added a few lines to Actaeon's FrontierAssistant to create PalaceAssistant. This program adds information of your opponent's move classification, with their probabilities of selection from each group based on their health. As always, convert the txt files to csv before running the program. Please see the sample below:
I think this tool can be useful for players new to Palace or to those trying to extend their streaks, as you'll find several Pokemon are very poorly optimized for this facility, and are easier to switch into than what their moveset shows.
Lastly, I've been playing Palace quite a bit lately, and there's one more observation I'd like to make: if a Pokemon is asleep when it falls below 50%, its behavior will not change. It has to wake up and end the turn below 50% for the behavior to change (I noticed the trigger text did not display until after waking). Something to think about when playing with a Rest-mon. This is not true for all other volatile statuses, including freeze. Even when frozen, a Pokemon's behavior will change so long as the Pokemon's health is below 50% at the end of the turn.
Code:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What trainer are you battling?
Emma
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This trainer has 90 different sets, which constitute 55748 different teams.
There are 43 alarming movesets, and there is a 0.8598 chance of running into at least one of them.
There is 0.2057 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.4915 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.5242 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAPRAS 0.27592
SNORLAX 0.236349
REGIROCK 0.202554
REGICE 0.198034
REGISTEEL 0.194339
MILTANK 0.163342
BLISSEY 0.152113
WAILORD 0.151216
WALREIN 0.138301
LUDICOLO 0.138122
MILOTIC 0.138086
SLOWBRO 0.133386
SLOWKING 0.133386
EXEGGUTOR 0.1317
UMBREON 0.128794
CRADILY 0.124561
SHUCKLE 0.124345
QUAGSIRE 0.124166
DUSCLOPS 0.111287
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter a Pokemon you have seen.
Snorlax
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
Snorlax 2 0.145492 Chesto Berry Adamant Earthquake Rock Slide Curse Rest 50
Snorlax 8 0.145492 Chesto Berry Adamant Return Shadow Ball Belly Drum Rest 50
!!! Snorlax 3 0.133045 Quick Claw Adamant Mega Kick Shadow Ball Swagger Psych Up 50
Snorlax 4 0.133045 Quick Claw Adamant Double-Edge Shadow Ball Brick Break Curse 50
!!! Snorlax 5 0.133045 Quick Claw Adamant Mega Kick Shadow Ball Brick Break Counter 50
Snorlax 7 0.133045 Quick Claw Adamant Hyper Beam Shadow Ball Earthquake Curse 50
!!! Snorlax 1 0.088418 Leftovers Adamant Facade Shadow Ball Attract Double Team 50
!!! Snorlax 6 0.088418 Leftovers Adamant Earthquake Shadow Ball Brick Break Counter 50
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
Snorlax 2 Chesto Berry Adamant Earthquake ATK Rock Slide ATK Curse SPT Rest DEF
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
ATK DEF SPT ||| ATK<50 DEF<50 SPT<50
Snorlax 2 Chesto Berry Adamant 0.38 0.31 0.31 ||| 0.7 0.15 0.15
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Press Enter to continue...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next Pokemon probabilities:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAPRAS 0.229004
REGIROCK 0.143975
REGISTEEL 0.13615
MILTANK 0.123631
BLISSEY 0.118936
WALREIN 0.114241
SLOWBRO 0.113719
SLOWKING 0.113719
MILOTIC 0.110589
LUDICOLO 0.110589
REGICE 0.108503
UMBREON 0.106416
QUAGSIRE 0.105895
CRADILY 0.102765
EXEGGUTOR 0.082942
DUSCLOPS 0.068858
WAILORD 0.064163
SHUCKLE 0.045905
SNORLAX 0.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is 0.1487 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.3902 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.4001 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter another Pokemon you have seen.
Lapras
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
!!! Lapras 7 0.145786 Leppa Berry Calm Sheer Cold Horn Drill Rest Sleep Talk 80
Lapras 4 0.138952 Lum Berry Modest Surf Ice Beam Thunderbolt Psychic 80
Lapras 5 0.134396 Shell Bell Docile Psychic Thunderbolt Iron Tail Double-Edge 80
!!! Lapras 3 0.127563 BrightPowder Docile Double-Edge Psychic Confuse Ray Dragon Dance 80
Lapras 6 0.127563 BrightPowder Modest Hydro Pump Thunder Rain Dance Blizzard 80
Lapras 2 0.120729 Quick Claw Timid Surf Ice Beam Body Slam Roar 123
!!! Lapras 8 0.120729 Quick Claw Calm Sheer Cold Horn Drill Sing Attract 80
Lapras 1 0.084282 Leftovers Bold Surf Attract Confuse Ray Sing 80
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
Lapras 4 Lum Berry Modest Surf ATK Ice Beam ATK Thunderbolt ATK Psychic ATK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
ATK DEF SPT ||| ATK<50 DEF<50 SPT<50
Lapras 4 Lum Berry Modest 0.35 0.45 0.2 ||| 0.34 0.6 0.06
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Press Enter to continue...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next Pokemon probabilities:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REGIROCK 0.081967
REGISTEEL 0.081967
QUAGSIRE 0.065574
LUDICOLO 0.065574
SLOWBRO 0.065574
SLOWKING 0.065574
CRADILY 0.065574
UMBREON 0.065574
WALREIN 0.065574
BLISSEY 0.065574
DUSCLOPS 0.04918
MILTANK 0.04918
EXEGGUTOR 0.04918
MILOTIC 0.04918
REGICE 0.04918
WAILORD 0.032787
SHUCKLE 0.032787
LAPRAS 0.0
SNORLAX 0.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is 0.0492 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.2459 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.2295 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter the last Pokemon.
Umbreon
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
!!! Umbreon 1 0.25 BrightPowder Bold Confuse Ray Faint Attack Double Team Baton Pass 85
!!! Umbreon 3 0.25 BrightPowder Bold Swagger Psych Up Attract Shadow Ball 85
!!! Umbreon 2 0.25 Leftovers Adamant Curse Screech Double Team Double-Edge 85
!!! Umbreon 4 0.25 Leftovers Bold Confuse Ray Toxic Faint Attack Double Team 85
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
!!! Umbreon 4 Leftovers Bold Confuse Ray SPT Toxic SPT Faint Attack ATK Double Team DEF
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
ATK DEF SPT ||| ATK<50 DEF<50 SPT<50
!!! Umbreon 4 Leftovers Bold 0.3 0.2 0.5 ||| 0.32 0.58 0.1Lastly, I've been playing Palace quite a bit lately, and there's one more observation I'd like to make: if a Pokemon is asleep when it falls below 50%, its behavior will not change. It has to wake up and end the turn below 50% for the behavior to change (I noticed the trigger text did not display until after waking). Something to think about when playing with a Rest-mon. This is not true for all other volatile statuses, including freeze. Even when frozen, a Pokemon's behavior will change so long as the Pokemon's health is below 50% at the end of the turn.
Was hoping to hit triple digits, but my first run ends at 97. I'm sure this team can make it higher, but I might try switching it up next run, dunno yet~
Round 11:
G1 - vs lead Tentacruel. Twave as it IBs, so 3 or 4. Flash reveals it's Clear Body as it Mirror Coats. Recover as it MCs again, then switch to Vap on another MC. Sub as it Sludge Bombs and fails to break, set 4 confirmed. Usual setup, Mence cleans Tentacruel / Magmar / Typhlosion
G2 - vs lead Regice. Twave as it Blizzards, set 2. Sac Latias to get Vap in for free. Stall out Thunder PP, setting up between Protects, then BP to Mence after Blizz PP runs out. 6 DDs + sweep Regice / Cradily / Slowking
G3 - vs lead Machamp. Twave as it full paras, Charm as it DEs, set 5 confirmed. Charm again and Recover, but go down to crit DE. Usual setup from there, Mence cleans Machamp / Lapras / Milotic
G4 - vs lead Lapras. Twave as it full paras, Flash as it DEs, Shell Bell confirms set 5. Get it to -6 Accuracy and Attack, but Vap still catches a Tbolt on the switch in. Should've PP stalled first, that could've been a crit or para'd. Usual setup, Mence cleans Lapras / Metagross / Salamence
G5 - vs lead Umbreon. Twave as it Attracts, set 3. Charm it down and PP stall. It weirdly used all its Psych Ups before Swagger, maybe because Lati had SpD drops from SBall. Usual setup, Mence swept Umbreon / Flareon / Espeon
G6 - vs lead Typhlosion. Twave as it full paras, Flash as it Reversals (set 3). Flash + Charm to -6, then usual setup. Mence sweeps Typhlosion / Starmie / Vileplume
G7 - vs lead Ludicolo. Twave as it IBs, set 2. Stall out IB with Flash + Recover, then PP stall fully. Usual setup, Mence cleaned Ludicolo / Venusaur / Slowking
G1 - vs lead Tentacruel. Twave as it IBs, so 3 or 4. Flash reveals it's Clear Body as it Mirror Coats. Recover as it MCs again, then switch to Vap on another MC. Sub as it Sludge Bombs and fails to break, set 4 confirmed. Usual setup, Mence cleans Tentacruel / Magmar / Typhlosion
G2 - vs lead Regice. Twave as it Blizzards, set 2. Sac Latias to get Vap in for free. Stall out Thunder PP, setting up between Protects, then BP to Mence after Blizz PP runs out. 6 DDs + sweep Regice / Cradily / Slowking
G3 - vs lead Machamp. Twave as it full paras, Charm as it DEs, set 5 confirmed. Charm again and Recover, but go down to crit DE. Usual setup from there, Mence cleans Machamp / Lapras / Milotic
G4 - vs lead Lapras. Twave as it full paras, Flash as it DEs, Shell Bell confirms set 5. Get it to -6 Accuracy and Attack, but Vap still catches a Tbolt on the switch in. Should've PP stalled first, that could've been a crit or para'd. Usual setup, Mence cleans Lapras / Metagross / Salamence
G5 - vs lead Umbreon. Twave as it Attracts, set 3. Charm it down and PP stall. It weirdly used all its Psych Ups before Swagger, maybe because Lati had SpD drops from SBall. Usual setup, Mence swept Umbreon / Flareon / Espeon
G6 - vs lead Typhlosion. Twave as it full paras, Flash as it Reversals (set 3). Flash + Charm to -6, then usual setup. Mence sweeps Typhlosion / Starmie / Vileplume
G7 - vs lead Ludicolo. Twave as it IBs, set 2. Stall out IB with Flash + Recover, then PP stall fully. Usual setup, Mence cleaned Ludicolo / Venusaur / Slowking
Round 12:
G1 - vs lead Houndoom. Twave as it Crunches, no Lum so set 4. Opt to sac Lati and miss Flash. Vap is slowly able to set up and fully PP stall it. It actually popped a Mence Sub with a few Struggle hits, but was able to pull the usual sweep: Houndoom / Typhlosion / Porygon2
G2 - vs lead Slowking. Twave as it IBs, freeze activates my Lum. Recover up and get a Flash in after a full para, then spam Recover as it hits every IB. Thankfully no more freezes (or any crits / QCs), and it becomes easy to debuff + PP stall once they run out. Reveals Flamethrower at some point (and later burns), so set 4. Mence cleans Slowking / Machamp / Walrein
G3 - vs lead Slowbro. Twave as it QC IBs (set 4), freeze activates my Lum. Feels familiar. Less lucky this time, and Lati goes down to another freeze before doing anything else. Use up all of Vap's non-BP PP stalling it down to just Surf. Mence cleaned Slowbro / Gardevoir / Miltank
G4 - vs lead Claydol. Flash as it Rock Slides (set 1). Easily PP stall it out, usual setup. Mence swept Claydol / Raikou / Metagross
G5 - vs lead Walrein. Twave as it Protects (set 1). Flash until Lati gets Yawned, switch to Vap, set up + BP back to Lati to debuff + PP stall it. Usual setup, Mence cleans Walrein / Starmie / Wailord
G6 - vs lead Snorlax. Charm as it QC Curses, could be set 4 or 7. Charm again as it DEs, confirming 4. Got it to -6 Attack and Accuracy (and para'd), but Lati went down to a crit while PP stalling it out. Usual setup from there, Mence cleaned Snorlax / Espeon / Venusaur
G7 - vs lead Dewgong. Twave into Lum as Sheer Cold misses (set 4). Twave again as it IBs, then spam Recover as it keeps IBing until it fully paras. Flash + Charm it down from there, then PP stall. Usual setup, Mence cleans Dewgong / Dunsparce / QC Curse Snorlax
G1 - vs lead Houndoom. Twave as it Crunches, no Lum so set 4. Opt to sac Lati and miss Flash. Vap is slowly able to set up and fully PP stall it. It actually popped a Mence Sub with a few Struggle hits, but was able to pull the usual sweep: Houndoom / Typhlosion / Porygon2
G2 - vs lead Slowking. Twave as it IBs, freeze activates my Lum. Recover up and get a Flash in after a full para, then spam Recover as it hits every IB. Thankfully no more freezes (or any crits / QCs), and it becomes easy to debuff + PP stall once they run out. Reveals Flamethrower at some point (and later burns), so set 4. Mence cleans Slowking / Machamp / Walrein
G3 - vs lead Slowbro. Twave as it QC IBs (set 4), freeze activates my Lum. Feels familiar. Less lucky this time, and Lati goes down to another freeze before doing anything else. Use up all of Vap's non-BP PP stalling it down to just Surf. Mence cleaned Slowbro / Gardevoir / Miltank
G4 - vs lead Claydol. Flash as it Rock Slides (set 1). Easily PP stall it out, usual setup. Mence swept Claydol / Raikou / Metagross
G5 - vs lead Walrein. Twave as it Protects (set 1). Flash until Lati gets Yawned, switch to Vap, set up + BP back to Lati to debuff + PP stall it. Usual setup, Mence cleans Walrein / Starmie / Wailord
G6 - vs lead Snorlax. Charm as it QC Curses, could be set 4 or 7. Charm again as it DEs, confirming 4. Got it to -6 Attack and Accuracy (and para'd), but Lati went down to a crit while PP stalling it out. Usual setup from there, Mence cleaned Snorlax / Espeon / Venusaur
G7 - vs lead Dewgong. Twave into Lum as Sheer Cold misses (set 4). Twave again as it IBs, then spam Recover as it keeps IBing until it fully paras. Flash + Charm it down from there, then PP stall. Usual setup, Mence cleans Dewgong / Dunsparce / QC Curse Snorlax
Round 13:
G1 - vs lead Articuno. Twave as it DTs, set 2. Get it to -6 Accuracy and -2 Attack, let Lati die to Toxic so Vap can get in freely. Usual setup, Mence cleans Articuno / Moltres / Flygon
G2 - vs lead Latias. Twave as it Dragon Claws. It reveals IB as Lati Recovers, so set 3. Only get 1 Flash in before going down to a crit. Vap has an easy enough time setting up and PP stalls as much as possible. Mence cleans Latias / Regice / Regirock
G3 - vs lead Articuno. Twave as it DTs, set 2, again?? Get it to -2 Accuracy before it Subs up, then stay in to PP stall until Toxic KOs. Free setup from there, Mence swept Articuno / Zapdos / Entei
G4 - vs lead Nidoqueen. Flash as it IBs, set 3. Get it to -6 Acc / Atk, then PP stall fully. Easy sweep Nidoqueen / Tentacruel / Nidoking
G5 - vs lead Glalie. Twave as it IBs, so set 1 or 4. Revealed Shadow Ball as Lati Recovered, set 4. Get it to -1 Acc / -2 Atk before going down to a crit. Vap sets up and fully PP stalls. Mence sweeps Glalie / Whiscash / Starmie
G6 - vs lead Cradily. Twave as it MCs, set 4. Flash + Charm to -6, then fully PP stall. Setup + sweep Cradily / Ursaring / Ninetales
G7 - vs lead Machamp. Charm as it BUs, set 2. Twave and continue Charming / Flashing to -6, then PP stall. Usual setup, Mence cleans Machamp / Regirock / Steelix
G1 - vs lead Articuno. Twave as it DTs, set 2. Get it to -6 Accuracy and -2 Attack, let Lati die to Toxic so Vap can get in freely. Usual setup, Mence cleans Articuno / Moltres / Flygon
G2 - vs lead Latias. Twave as it Dragon Claws. It reveals IB as Lati Recovers, so set 3. Only get 1 Flash in before going down to a crit. Vap has an easy enough time setting up and PP stalls as much as possible. Mence cleans Latias / Regice / Regirock
G3 - vs lead Articuno. Twave as it DTs, set 2, again?? Get it to -2 Accuracy before it Subs up, then stay in to PP stall until Toxic KOs. Free setup from there, Mence swept Articuno / Zapdos / Entei
G4 - vs lead Nidoqueen. Flash as it IBs, set 3. Get it to -6 Acc / Atk, then PP stall fully. Easy sweep Nidoqueen / Tentacruel / Nidoking
G5 - vs lead Glalie. Twave as it IBs, so set 1 or 4. Revealed Shadow Ball as Lati Recovered, set 4. Get it to -1 Acc / -2 Atk before going down to a crit. Vap sets up and fully PP stalls. Mence sweeps Glalie / Whiscash / Starmie
G6 - vs lead Cradily. Twave as it MCs, set 4. Flash + Charm to -6, then fully PP stall. Setup + sweep Cradily / Ursaring / Ninetales
G7 - vs lead Machamp. Charm as it BUs, set 2. Twave and continue Charming / Flashing to -6, then PP stall. Usual setup, Mence cleans Machamp / Regirock / Steelix
Round 14:
G1 - vs lead Salamence. Twave into Lum as it DDs, set 6. Twave again as it DDs again, then Charm + Flash it down, fully PP stall. Usual setup, Mence cleaned Salamence / Kingdra / Nidoking
G2 - vs lead Mr. Mime. Twave as it full paras, Flash as it misses Ice Punch (set 4). Debuff and fully PP stall, usual setup. Mence sweeps Mr. Mime / Machamp / Dodrio
G3 - vs lead Gengar. Twave as it SBs, set 2 based off of damage (over half with no crit). Am able to Recover up and Charm it down after a full para, then bring it to -6 Atk / Acc and PP stall fully. Usual setup, Mence swept Gengar / Seviper / Umbreon
G4 - vs lead Machamp. Charm as it Rock Slides, two more Charms and it reveals Flamethrower (set 4). Twave and Flash it down, then PP stall fully. Usual setup, Mence cleans Machamp / QC IB Lapras / Starmie
G5 - vs lead Metagross. Twave as it full paras, stay in and scout Brick Break, so 5 or 8. Switch to Vap as it Explodes, first time Vap's gone down. Latias vs Gengar now. Twave as it Confuse Rays into my Lum. Miss Flash as it Shadow Balls, set 2 again. Recover up and get 1 Charm off before going down to crit Sludge Bomb. At -3 Attack (Intimidate), it can't pop a Mence Sub without a crit. It mostly spams Confuse Ray as Mence gets up 6 DDs behind a Sub. Swept Gengar and last mon Salamence (what a match, both down to our Mences, lol)
G6 - vs lead Regice. Twave into Lum as it does the same. Set 3, opt to stay in and PP stall it. Instead, it Twaves, then crits IB, Lati full paras and goes down to another IB, lol. Vap sets up and PP stalls a bit, then Mence cleans Regice / Alakazam / Granbull
G1 - vs lead Salamence. Twave into Lum as it DDs, set 6. Twave again as it DDs again, then Charm + Flash it down, fully PP stall. Usual setup, Mence cleaned Salamence / Kingdra / Nidoking
G2 - vs lead Mr. Mime. Twave as it full paras, Flash as it misses Ice Punch (set 4). Debuff and fully PP stall, usual setup. Mence sweeps Mr. Mime / Machamp / Dodrio
G3 - vs lead Gengar. Twave as it SBs, set 2 based off of damage (over half with no crit). Am able to Recover up and Charm it down after a full para, then bring it to -6 Atk / Acc and PP stall fully. Usual setup, Mence swept Gengar / Seviper / Umbreon
G4 - vs lead Machamp. Charm as it Rock Slides, two more Charms and it reveals Flamethrower (set 4). Twave and Flash it down, then PP stall fully. Usual setup, Mence cleans Machamp / QC IB Lapras / Starmie
G5 - vs lead Metagross. Twave as it full paras, stay in and scout Brick Break, so 5 or 8. Switch to Vap as it Explodes, first time Vap's gone down. Latias vs Gengar now. Twave as it Confuse Rays into my Lum. Miss Flash as it Shadow Balls, set 2 again. Recover up and get 1 Charm off before going down to crit Sludge Bomb. At -3 Attack (Intimidate), it can't pop a Mence Sub without a crit. It mostly spams Confuse Ray as Mence gets up 6 DDs behind a Sub. Swept Gengar and last mon Salamence (what a match, both down to our Mences, lol)
G6 - vs lead Regice. Twave into Lum as it does the same. Set 3, opt to stay in and PP stall it. Instead, it Twaves, then crits IB, Lati full paras and goes down to another IB, lol. Vap sets up and PP stalls a bit, then Mence cleans Regice / Alakazam / Granbull
Vs lead Steelix. Charm twice before it Explodes, Lati at 65 HP. Porygon2 comes out. Recover as it IBs, set 4, at 61 HP now. Twave and Lati goes down to another IB. Vap is able to stall out Tbolt PP with Protect and Sub, and get 2 DTs up, but ultimately went down to Psychic when it lacked enough HP to Sub again after a Protect. Only hope left would be getting super lucky with full paras and maybe crits, but no such luck. Mence slowly Subs down and eventually falls to IB.
New here, been playing a lot on retail lately.
I haven't noticed much Skarmory usage, but have found very reliable in doubles
Particularly as a mon immune to EQ my Artemis lures a lot of opposing mon to use EQ even when it hits nothing.
It's a good stall tactic to deal with Minimise/Double Team users with Toxic + Protect + Leftovers (just need one Toxic to hit)- but I was also thinking of trying Fly on my fast skarm? Reason being an additional stall turn immediately after Protect in Doubles to heal with leftovers and leave an alive teammate to attack so that when fly is used and Skarm is vulnerable there should be a foe eliminated.
"Artemis" Skarmory Leftovers
Adamant 252 Lv.50 HP 134 / 136 / 147 / - / 87 SpD / 112 Spe
- Toxic
- Protect
- Fly / Drill Peck
- Rest (Filler)
I haven't noticed much Skarmory usage, but have found very reliable in doubles
Particularly as a mon immune to EQ my Artemis lures a lot of opposing mon to use EQ even when it hits nothing.
It's a good stall tactic to deal with Minimise/Double Team users with Toxic + Protect + Leftovers (just need one Toxic to hit)- but I was also thinking of trying Fly on my fast skarm? Reason being an additional stall turn immediately after Protect in Doubles to heal with leftovers and leave an alive teammate to attack so that when fly is used and Skarm is vulnerable there should be a foe eliminated.
"Artemis" Skarmory Leftovers
Adamant 252 Lv.50 HP 134 / 136 / 147 / - / 87 SpD / 112 Spe
- Toxic
- Protect
- Fly / Drill Peck
- Rest (Filler)
Jokes aside, the reason why AI loves to spam Ground moves against Skarmory has its roots in a specific glitch, that happens with more than one Pokemon.
I’ll report magpie ai words on that:
To sum things up, AI doesn’t recognize the following Immunities due to your Pokemon’s 2nd Type being not-Neutral to a move, while your 1st Type grants you the Immunity.
The AI will then give “usual” scores to moves your Pokemon is immune to.
1) Unrecognized GROUND IMMUNITY:
- Skarmory;
- Aerodactyl;
- Scyther;
- Butterfree,
- Masquerain;
- Beautifly;
- Ninjask;
- Yanma.
2) Unrecognized ELECTRIC IMMUNITY:
- Flygon;
- Gligar.
3) Unrecognized GHOST IMMUNITY:
- Girafarig.
Some practical implications include Skarmory having extra free turns while crippling and/or stalling Physical Attackers / Whiscash 4 / Walrein 4 due to EQ being often preferred to other effective moves, and Flygon repeatedly calling Thunder Wave on itself due to AI paralysis spamming vs. fast Pokemon.
Last edited:
Hello everyone, hope all is well!
I would like to update my Battle Tower Record to #93 with an updated team of:
SKT T2 SUI (Suicune) @ Leftovers
IVs: 1 SpA
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 14 SpD / 4 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Protect
- Roar
- Calm Mind
- Rest
MEG (Meganium) (M) @ BrightPowder
IVs: 22 SpA
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpD
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Double Team
- Protect
LAT1F1 (Latias) (F) @ Soul Dew
IVs: 14 Atk
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD / 6 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
- Rest
https://pokepast.es/5b1c2b40c65b9959
This team is a second revision of my previous team, which was heavily inspired by Adedede's team.
- Instead of having Suicune as the sweeper, I noticed an overall increase in survivability if it was just used purely to stall, due to Pressure and Suicune's impressive bulk. The only counters to this are stab Electric lead pokemon, critical hits from electric types (stab & non stab).
- Meganium as a staple poke from my previous team. This was inspired by many of previous runs that ended due to a 6x Double Team Meganium/Ludicolo in the 3rd slot (I have already swept the lead and 2nd pokes). You cannot win a Struggle battle against these mons.
- Latias instead of Latios due to its better defensive stats.
Looking at the team as a whole, you can probably tell Bug type sweepers with Megahorn/Silver Wind are going to be absolutely lethal, especially when they are the lead. Either Roar or tank the hits with Suicune. I do not recommend tanking against Scizor due to stats boosting Swords Dance and/or Agility. Overall I noticed a decreased need to rely on Struggle to end battles. Instead it is replaced by careful setup and scouting of 3rd slot 'mons.
I do appreciate any constructive advice that can help me improve my streaks with this team!
Videos of #70 - #93 of the run:
I would like to update my Battle Tower Record to #93 with an updated team of:
SKT T2 SUI (Suicune) @ Leftovers
IVs: 1 SpA
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 14 SpD / 4 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Protect
- Roar
- Calm Mind
- Rest
MEG (Meganium) (M) @ BrightPowder
IVs: 22 SpA
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpD
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Double Team
- Protect
LAT1F1 (Latias) (F) @ Soul Dew
IVs: 14 Atk
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD / 6 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
- Rest
https://pokepast.es/5b1c2b40c65b9959
This team is a second revision of my previous team, which was heavily inspired by Adedede's team.
- Instead of having Suicune as the sweeper, I noticed an overall increase in survivability if it was just used purely to stall, due to Pressure and Suicune's impressive bulk. The only counters to this are stab Electric lead pokemon, critical hits from electric types (stab & non stab).
- Meganium as a staple poke from my previous team. This was inspired by many of previous runs that ended due to a 6x Double Team Meganium/Ludicolo in the 3rd slot (I have already swept the lead and 2nd pokes). You cannot win a Struggle battle against these mons.
- Latias instead of Latios due to its better defensive stats.
Looking at the team as a whole, you can probably tell Bug type sweepers with Megahorn/Silver Wind are going to be absolutely lethal, especially when they are the lead. Either Roar or tank the hits with Suicune. I do not recommend tanking against Scizor due to stats boosting Swords Dance and/or Agility. Overall I noticed a decreased need to rely on Struggle to end battles. Instead it is replaced by careful setup and scouting of 3rd slot 'mons.
I do appreciate any constructive advice that can help me improve my streaks with this team!
Videos of #70 - #93 of the run:
Good morning, I've updated my Palace Assistant to now incorporate AI random behaviors based upon the number of move classes each Pokemon has.
Courtesy of Goomer22,
Namely, this line in the Bulbapedia article is wrong: "If the Pokémon has no move in the selected category, the Pokémon will pick one of its moves at random, but there will also be a 50% chance that the Pokémon will "appear incapable of using its power" and skip its turn."
Move selection when missing a category is not random: the game selects a category based on numMovesPerGroup. However, notice that when counting the numMovesPerGroup, there is an error for rolling a missing Support that checks number of Defense moves instead of Support moves. In that case, rolling Defense when missing Defense - > either random Attack or no move; rolling Attack when missing Attack -> random Defense or no move. I have summarized the rules I used to calculate the new probabilities in the following pseudo-code:
With this additional information, the Palace Assistant now can display probabilities of "smart" opponent behavior (AI_ATK, AI_DEF, AI_SPT - the behavior listed on Bulbapedia) as well as probabilities in "no move" and random ATK/DEF (R_ATK, R_DEF). Please see the following code:
Notice that now with the updated probabilities, Modest/Docile/Adamant offensive Pokemon have a much higher probability to attack than Bulbapedia lists, although the move selection itself may not be optimized. However, this does feel much more in line with what I've experienced in Palace.
I've also added Spenser onto the Trainer list and his Pokemon so his Pokemon's behaviors can be displayed. Please disregard the odds of seeing each Pokemon, I put the Gold and Silver symbol instances together.
His CM Suicune with 3 Attacks is very optimized, with only a 2-3% chance of wasting a turn. Below 50% the probability of an attack exceeds 90%. This is reminiscent of how my Hasty CM Latios also played, and I think this archetype is one of the best in the Palace.
Another takeaway from the updated probabilities is that Sassy Choice Band Pokemon are also highly optimized. If missing both DEF/SPT categories, then the probabilities are as follows:
AI_ATK: 0.88
Random_ATK: 0.06
NO MOVE: 0.06
AI_ATK<50: 0.22
Random_ATK<50: 0.39
NO MOVE<50: 0.39
For the case in which the Pokemon has already locked itself into a move, then falls behind 50%, the attack obviously will no longer be random. This means it could be in your favor to stay in with a CB locked Pokemon, given that the probability of attacking even at sub50% is around 60%. It could be recommended to keep the number of moves on a CB Pokemon to be <=3 to control the random attack selection (I will likely delete Aerial Ace from my Metagross for this reason), but overall, this is another one of the better archetypes in Palace.
Please let me know if I've made any miscalculations with the new probabilities. I hope this tool is useful for new Palace streaks!
Courtesy of Goomer22,
Namely, this line in the Bulbapedia article is wrong: "If the Pokémon has no move in the selected category, the Pokémon will pick one of its moves at random, but there will also be a 50% chance that the Pokémon will "appear incapable of using its power" and skip its turn."
Move selection when missing a category is not random: the game selects a category based on numMovesPerGroup. However, notice that when counting the numMovesPerGroup, there is an error for rolling a missing Support that checks number of Defense moves instead of Support moves. In that case, rolling Defense when missing Defense - > either random Attack or no move; rolling Attack when missing Attack -> random Defense or no move. I have summarized the rules I used to calculate the new probabilities in the following pseudo-code:
Code:
#Case 1: 3 move classes
- Probabilities are as listed
#Case 2: 2 move classes
#Case 2A: ATK, DEF, no SPT
- "smart" (AI) ATK, DEF probabilities remain same
-if roll SPT:
#Case 2A1: NumATK = numDEF
- 0.5*P(SPT) NO MOVE
- 0.25*P(SPT) Random ATK
- 0.25*P(SPT) Random DEF
#Case 2A2: NumATK > numDEF
- 0.5*P(SPT) NO MOVE
- 0.5*P(SPT) Random ATK
#Case 2A3: NumATK < numDEF
- 0.5*P(SPT) NO MOVE
- 0.5*P(SPT) Random DEF
#Case 2B: ATK, SPT, no DEF
- AI ATK, SPT probabilities remain the same
- if roll DEF:
- 0.5*P(DEF) NO MOVE
- 0.5*P(DEF) Random ATK
#This is due to error in code that checks numDEF moves again when comparing.
#It should have been comparing numATK v numSPT.
#numATK always > numDEF in this case
#Case 2C: SPT, DEF, no ATK
- AI DEF, SPT probabilities remain the same
- if roll ATK:
- 0.5*P(ATK) NO MOVE
- 0.5*P(ATK) Random DEF
#Here it wrongly checks numDEF vs NumDEF (one of these should be numSPT)
#numDEF is equal to itself, it will just randomly select a DEF move
#Case 3: 1 move class
#Case 3A: only ATK, no DEF or SPT
- AI ATK remains the same
- For DEF, SPT rolls
- 0.5*P(DEF) + 0.5*P(SPT) NO MOVE
- 0.5*P(DEF) + 0.5*P(SPT) Random ATK
#Case 3B: only DEF, no ATK or SPT
- AI DEF remains the same
- For ATK, SPT rolls
- 0.5*P(ATK) + 0.5*P(SPT) NO MOVE
- 0.5*P(ATK) + 0.5*P(SPT) Random DEF
#Case 3C: only SPT, no ATK or DEF
- AI SPT remains the same
- for ATK, DEF rolls
- P(ATK) + P(DEF) NO MOVE
#it checks numDEF, numATK but both are 0.
#Therefore all probability is given to NO MOVE
#this one may need checking, but is also almost never seenWith this additional information, the Palace Assistant now can display probabilities of "smart" opponent behavior (AI_ATK, AI_DEF, AI_SPT - the behavior listed on Bulbapedia) as well as probabilities in "no move" and random ATK/DEF (R_ATK, R_DEF). Please see the following code:
Code:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What trainer are you battling?
jaylin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This trainer has 86 different sets, which constitute 59792 different teams.
There are 17 alarming movesets, and there is a 0.5008 chance of running into at least one of them.
There is 0.0 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.2981 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.2629 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LATIAS 0.259332
METAGROSS 0.255352
GARDEVOIR 0.253813
STARMIE 0.246354
XATU 0.16815
MRMIME 0.157312
HYPNO 0.153666
ALAKAZAM 0.148481
SLOWBRO 0.144501
SLOWKING 0.144501
RAIKOU 0.144166
ENTEI 0.144166
CLAYDOL 0.143665
EXEGGUTOR 0.141056
SUICUNE 0.136239
JYNX 0.136072
ESPEON 0.13373
WOBBUFFET 0.089443
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter a Pokemon you have seen.
starmie
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
Starmie 1 0.144263 Shell Bell Modest Psychic Confuse Ray Thunder Wave Recover 135
Starmie 2 0.144263 Shell Bell Modest Hydro Pump Thunder Rain Dance Recover 135
Starmie 6 0.124983 Leftovers Calm Surf Confuse Ray Thunder Wave Recover 135
Starmie 7 0.121453 BrightPowder Modest Psychic Ice Beam Cosmic Power Recover 167
Starmie 8 0.121453 BrightPowder Modest Surf Thunderbolt Cosmic Power Recover 167
Starmie 3 0.114528 Lum Berry Modest Surf Psychic Thunderbolt Ice Beam 167
Starmie 4 0.114528 Lum Berry Modest Psychic Thunderbolt Ice Beam Recover 167
Starmie 5 0.114528 Lum Berry Modest Surf Psychic Recover Light Screen 167
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
Starmie 3 Lum Berry Modest Surf ATK Psychic ATK Thunderbolt ATK Ice Beam ATK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
AI_ATK AI_DEF AI_SPT ||| AI_ATK<50 AI_DEF<50 AI_SPT<50
Starmie 3 Lum Berry Modest 0.35 0.0 0.0 ||| 0.34 0.0 0.0
R_ATK R_DEF NOMOVE ||| R_ATK<50 R_DEF<50 NOMOVE<50
0.325 0.0 0.325 ||| 0.33 0.0 0.33
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Press Enter to continue...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next Pokemon probabilities:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LATIAS 0.206283
METAGROSS 0.20332
GARDEVOIR 0.179016
XATU 0.134558
MRMIME 0.129223
SLOWBRO 0.122703
SLOWKING 0.122703
EXEGGUTOR 0.120332
ALAKAZAM 0.098992
CLAYDOL 0.097214
RAIKOU 0.096621
ENTEI 0.096621
JYNX 0.093065
SUICUNE 0.092472
HYPNO 0.073503
WOBBUFFET 0.069947
ESPEON 0.063426
STARMIE 0.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is 0.0 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.2644 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.131 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter another Pokemon you have seen.
latias
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
Latias 8 0.155172 King's Rock Docile Psychic Shadow Ball Earthquake Aerial Ace 151
Latias 3 0.152299 Focus Band Docile Dragon Claw Thunderbolt Ice Beam Earthquake 130
Latias 6 0.149425 Shell Bell Modest Mist Ball Dragon Claw Attract Thunder Wave 130
Latias 4 0.137931 Leftovers Docile Mist Ball Shadow Ball Charm Reflect 130
!!! Latias 7 0.137931 Leftovers Adamant Earthquake Shadow Ball Swagger Psych Up 130
Latias 2 0.135057 Quick Claw Docile Psychic Thunderbolt Ice Beam Earthquake 130
Latias 5 0.132184 BrightPowder Modest Dragon Claw Thunder Wave Calm Mind Recover 130
Latias 1 0.0 Lum Berry Modest Psychic Thunderbolt Ice Beam Dragon Claw 130
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
Latias 3 Focus Band Docile Dragon Claw ATK Thunderbolt ATK Ice Beam ATK Earthquake ATK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
AI_ATK AI_DEF AI_SPT ||| AI_ATK<50 AI_DEF<50 AI_SPT<50
Latias 3 Focus Band Docile 0.56 0.0 0.0 ||| 0.56 0.0 0.0
R_ATK R_DEF NOMOVE ||| R_ATK<50 R_DEF<50 NOMOVE<50
0.22 0.0 0.22 ||| 0.22 0.0 0.22
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Press Enter to continue...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next Pokemon probabilities:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
METAGROSS 0.132075
GARDEVOIR 0.113208
MRMIME 0.075472
XATU 0.075472
SLOWBRO 0.075472
SLOWKING 0.075472
EXEGGUTOR 0.075472
JYNX 0.056604
RAIKOU 0.056604
ENTEI 0.056604
SUICUNE 0.056604
HYPNO 0.037736
ALAKAZAM 0.037736
CLAYDOL 0.037736
ESPEON 0.037736
WOBBUFFET 0.0
STARMIE 0.0
LATIAS 0.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is 0.0 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.1698 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.0189 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter the last Pokemon.
metagross
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
Metagross 7 0.142857 Shell Bell Hardy Earthquake Shadow Ball Ice Punch ThunderPunch 90
!!! Metagross 3 0.142857 Chesto Berry Adamant Earthquake Meteor Mash Double Team Rest 111
Metagross 4 0.142857 Quick Claw Hardy Meteor Mash Psychic Earthquake Shadow Ball 90
Metagross 5 0.142857 Quick Claw Jolly Explosion Earthquake Rock Slide Brick Break 122
Metagross 8 0.142857 Quick Claw Adamant Meteor Mash Earthquake Brick Break Explosion 111
Metagross 1 0.142857 Leftovers Adamant Meteor Mash Aerial Ace Facade Light Screen 111
Metagross 6 0.142857 BrightPowder Hardy Meteor Mash Psychic Ice Punch ThunderPunch 90
!!! Metagross 2 0.0 Lum Berry Adamant Earthquake Meteor Mash Psych Up Swagger 111
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
8
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
Metagross 8 Quick Claw Adamant Meteor Mash ATK Earthquake ATK Brick Break ATK Explosion ATK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
AI_ATK AI_DEF AI_SPT ||| AI_ATK<50 AI_DEF<50 AI_SPT<50
Metagross 8 Quick Claw Adamant 0.38 0.0 0.0 ||| 0.7 0.0 0.0
R_ATK R_DEF NOMOVE ||| R_ATK<50 R_DEF<50 NOMOVE<50
0.31 0.0 0.31 ||| 0.15 0.0 0.15Notice that now with the updated probabilities, Modest/Docile/Adamant offensive Pokemon have a much higher probability to attack than Bulbapedia lists, although the move selection itself may not be optimized. However, this does feel much more in line with what I've experienced in Palace.
I've also added Spenser onto the Trainer list and his Pokemon so his Pokemon's behaviors can be displayed. Please disregard the odds of seeing each Pokemon, I put the Gold and Silver symbol instances together.
Code:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What trainer are you battling?
spenser
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This trainer has 6 different sets, which constitute 16 different teams.
There are 2 alarming movesets, and there is a 0.875 chance of running into at least one of them.
There is 0.5625 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.5625 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.0 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SLAKING 0.75
SUICUNE 0.5625
ARCANINE 0.5625
CROBAT 0.5625
LAPRAS 0.5625
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter a Pokemon you have seen.
arcanine
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
Arcanine G 1.0 White Herb Hasty Overheat ExtremeSpeed Protect Roar 126
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
G
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
Arcanine G White Herb Hasty Overheat ATK ExtremeSpeed ATK Protect DEF Roar SPT
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
AI_ATK AI_DEF AI_SPT ||| AI_ATK<50 AI_DEF<50 AI_SPT<50
Arcanine G White Herb Hasty 0.58 0.37 0.05 ||| 0.88 0.06 0.06
R_ATK R_DEF NOMOVE ||| R_ATK<50 R_DEF<50 NOMOVE<50
0.0 0.0 0.0 ||| 0.0 0.0 0.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Press Enter to continue...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next Pokemon probabilities:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SLAKING 0.666667
SUICUNE 0.444444
CROBAT 0.444444
LAPRAS 0.444444
ARCANINE 0.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is 0.4444 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.4444 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.0 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter another Pokemon you have seen.
Slaking
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
Slaking G 0.5 Scope Lens Hardy Yawn Hyper Beam Earthquake Shadow Ball 152
Slaking S 0.5 Scope Lens Hardy Swagger Brick Break Earthquake Shadow Ball 125
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
G
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
Slaking G Scope Lens Hardy Yawn SPT Hyper Beam ATK Earthquake ATK Shadow Ball ATK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
AI_ATK AI_DEF AI_SPT ||| AI_ATK<50 AI_DEF<50 AI_SPT<50
Slaking G Scope Lens Hardy 0.61 0.0 0.32 ||| 0.61 0.0 0.32
R_ATK R_DEF NOMOVE ||| R_ATK<50 R_DEF<50 NOMOVE<50
0.035 0.0 0.035 ||| 0.035 0.0 0.035
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Press Enter to continue...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next Pokemon probabilities:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUICUNE 0.333333
CROBAT 0.333333
LAPRAS 0.333333
ARCANINE 0.0
SLAKING 0.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is 0.3333 chance of finding Alarm1: ['Sheer Cold', 'Horn Drill', 'Fissure', 'Guillotine']
There is 0.3333 chance of finding Alarm2: ['Swords Dance', 'Dragon Dance', 'Double Team']
There is 0.0 chance of finding Alarm3: ['Counter', 'Mirror Coat', 'Psych Up']
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please enter the last Pokemon.
Suicune
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible sets:
Suicune G 1.0 King's Rock Hasty Surf Blizzard Calm Mind Bite 116
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one was it? Enter a number.
G
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's moves are classified as:
Suicune G King's Rock Hasty Surf ATK Blizzard ATK Calm Mind DEF Bite ATK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Pokemon's behaviors are:
AI_ATK AI_DEF AI_SPT ||| AI_ATK<50 AI_DEF<50 AI_SPT<50
Suicune G King's Rock Hasty 0.58 0.37 0.0 ||| 0.88 0.06 0.0
R_ATK R_DEF NOMOVE ||| R_ATK<50 R_DEF<50 NOMOVE<50
0.025 0.0 0.025 ||| 0.03 0.0 0.03His CM Suicune with 3 Attacks is very optimized, with only a 2-3% chance of wasting a turn. Below 50% the probability of an attack exceeds 90%. This is reminiscent of how my Hasty CM Latios also played, and I think this archetype is one of the best in the Palace.
Another takeaway from the updated probabilities is that Sassy Choice Band Pokemon are also highly optimized. If missing both DEF/SPT categories, then the probabilities are as follows:
AI_ATK: 0.88
Random_ATK: 0.06
NO MOVE: 0.06
AI_ATK<50: 0.22
Random_ATK<50: 0.39
NO MOVE<50: 0.39
For the case in which the Pokemon has already locked itself into a move, then falls behind 50%, the attack obviously will no longer be random. This means it could be in your favor to stay in with a CB locked Pokemon, given that the probability of attacking even at sub50% is around 60%. It could be recommended to keep the number of moves on a CB Pokemon to be <=3 to control the random attack selection (I will likely delete Aerial Ace from my Metagross for this reason), but overall, this is another one of the better archetypes in Palace.
Please let me know if I've made any miscalculations with the new probabilities. I hope this tool is useful for new Palace streaks!
Last edited:
So just to be clear, is your list exhaustive or are their other unrecognized immunities?
Soul Dew doesn't do anything in Frontier.
I'm getting close to the Anabel Gold Medal fight in the tower, and I'm using the classic Jumpman team (link if you don't know, but....who doesn't by now?).
I'm not sure how I can beat her Curse Snorlax. I've tried to theorymon different ways but it doesn't look like I can without some luck. Surely someone else must have done this with the same team by now? Would someone please be able to offer some advice? My scan through the thread didn't find any specific info.
Here is the best thing I can think of:
Switch in Snorlax right away.
Get up 2 Curse boosts to account for a possible Reflect. No more than two, since I can't let her team set up for free.
Always attack, never Rest.
Beat Latios on very low health so that when her Snorlax comes out, it will go for Return and not Curse. This will let me bring Mence in on an unboosted Lax.
I click Brick Break, and win.
This is sort of tough because there doesn't seem to be any concrete logic to the choices the AI makes. It's random, but not exactly. All I can see consistently happen is going for super-effective moves, moves that will OHKO, and boosting after a -2 stat debuff. I'd love to hear if someone had a better/more consistent way.
I'm not sure how I can beat her Curse Snorlax. I've tried to theorymon different ways but it doesn't look like I can without some luck. Surely someone else must have done this with the same team by now? Would someone please be able to offer some advice? My scan through the thread didn't find any specific info.
Here is the best thing I can think of:
Switch in Snorlax right away.
Get up 2 Curse boosts to account for a possible Reflect. No more than two, since I can't let her team set up for free.
Always attack, never Rest.
Beat Latios on very low health so that when her Snorlax comes out, it will go for Return and not Curse. This will let me bring Mence in on an unboosted Lax.
I click Brick Break, and win.
This is sort of tough because there doesn't seem to be any concrete logic to the choices the AI makes. It's random, but not exactly. All I can see consistently happen is going for super-effective moves, moves that will OHKO, and boosting after a -2 stat debuff. I'd love to hear if someone had a better/more consistent way.
Last edited:
Hello!
Jumpman’s team is very famous indeed, but it has tons of issues and threats.
Outside of nostalgia factor, right now there are a lot of more reliable compositions even without going for full stall/semi-infinite streaks, and also easier to obtain (a.k.a. no XD Suicune RNG required).
The plan you mentioned vs. Anabel seems fine, even if a lot of things could go south with a slow Snorlax vs. 2 faster setup Specialist behind a potential Reflect.
To actually better understand how to procede, your team’s EVs / Stats are needed.
F.e., deciding how many Curse boosts are required strictly passes from offensive calculator, same thing for how many CM you could allow.
This is Jumpman’s Snorlax:
This is Jumpman’s Lax offensive calcs vs. Anabel:
- 278 Atk Stat Snorlax Earthquake vs. 158 HP / 252 Def Raikou: 161-190 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
- 278 Atk Stat Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Latios: 118-139 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 97% chance to 3HKO
Now, Jump’s Lax seems to have poor IVs:
Without going into deeper defensive calcs, it is enough for a good IVs Lax to put remaining EVs left into Atk to achieve this:
- 309 Atk Stat Snorlax Earthquake vs. 158 HP / 252 Def Raikou: 180-212 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is just a suggestion, there will be thousands of improvements still left on the table for sure.
It was just a little example on how many tools every team, even the simpler ones like this, has to improve odds when gameplanning vs. bad matchups.
About this, the AI doesn’t move randomly.
There is a very precise scoring AI gives to every move, based on damage, statuses, stats changes, HPs and so on, with an added RNG component to keep things “not that linear” seen from the outside (hence your overall feeling of “randomness”).
I’m just simplifying it a lot, some players there have really mastered its comprehension.
If you are interested, this is the decomp of Emerald battling AI:
https://github.com/pret/pokeemerald...e680fb8793f1b29cf2fd/data/battle_ai_scripts.s
Maybe I should flag the following line as a spoiler, but in Actaeon’ Tower Book there will also be a chapter dedicated to battling AI, written by those aforementioned experts!
It seems to be an exhaustive list.
Other Pokemons have the requirement of an Immunity granting Type + a not-Neutral Type (f.e. Crobat, Moltres for Ground, Steelix for Poison, Swampert for Electric), but the Immune Type must be listed as the 1st one in game coding for the trick to work.
Moltres is coded as Fire / Flying, so the game does properly recognize its Immunity.
While on Bulbapedia f.e. Skarmory is listed as Steel / Flying too, in the game code it is Flying 1st and Steel 2nd, causing the glitch instead.
Last edited:
The dumb choice random move being from the move group that has the most moves of that type was something werster had mentioned when he did his emerald frontier speedrun. I operated on the assumption it worked that way for a long time until after not finding any evidence to support it, I assumed I must have misinterpreted it.
But it has some cool implications, like triple attack hasty and triple defensive move Calm are even more consistent than we thought. The support move glitch means you could have something be fairly aggressive while running 2 attacks, status move, curse, leftovers. I mean actually even swagger plus psych up copy the stats should theoretically work smartly as you will never use a dumb choice status move.
Really awesome stuff, this and that palace doubles target selection thing both inspire me because they give us that little bit extra control in the palace we need to make the puzzle actually interesting because we actually have tools.
Wow, excellent post! Thank you! I also greatly appreciate the resource on the AI, this will be a huge help.
As for stats, when I was breeding, the criteria I put into PokeFinder was to match Jumpman's IVs at worst, and all 31s at best (even though I know I couldn't get a flawless one, I just like setting all 31 as the ceiling). I settled on one that was almost identical except for SpA and Spe....and I gave it the same EVs because it seemed "good enough". So your exact calcs are relevant...it made me realize I'd lose to Anabel's Snorlax in the 1v1 unless I had the ability to max out on Curse boosts before it shows up.
However, when I woke up this morning I realized that, just for Round 7, I can switch Earthquake --> Amnesia. Now I can just go Lax right away, set up, and win. TBH I'm not getting a lot of mileage out of Earthquake, despite it having a good matchup spread on paper.
I also wonder if more people use Immunity or Thick Fat? I went with Thick Fat b/c I already have Rest and felt like Toxic wasn't common enough. I could see the matchups where Immunity had value but I figured that in most games, Lax has an ability that doesn't do anything for it. I also like having a second Fire + Ice resists for if I'm playing Battle Dome, or something happens to Suicune. So if Snorlax switches in and takes small enough damage to be healed by Leftovers, I essentially got in him for free.
Mewtwo, Mew, Ho-Oh, Luigia, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, and Deoxys are not allowed to be used in the Battle Frontier. If you try to enter them in a facility (or one of the three Battle Tents in Emerald), it will say something like "NOT ALLOWED".
Also, just kind of off-topic (but not really): what works in ADV OU doesn't always align with what is good for the Battle Frontier. You are battling AI opponents that almost never switch. Also, there are only a few variations of each pokemon, each one with specific movesets, which don't perfectly align with what Smogon uses. All this is to say is that you are playing a different meta, which could affect EV spreads and move choice.
I'd recommend looking through the OP for team ideas.