Regarding a tera suspect, Tera Preview simply wouldn't be worth it (especially at this point) simply because it doesn't address the core issue with the mechanic as a whole, which imo happens from a teambuilding level. It effectively inflates the amount of huge threats to prep for on top of an already large list, and knowing what something will change into isn't something that if you didn't prep for it anyways. It doesn't reduce the pressure in the builder which drives the metagame towards such a heavy offense focused tier.If a tera suspect ever happens, will it be all or nothing like last time or will half measures like tera preview or banning tera blast be options? Honestly, I don't think anything but a full ban would really address the core issue but maybe it's worth a shot? Just so people don't feel like they have to pick between two extremes.
Before the suspect, would it be possible for a list of what the council would vote on to be unbanned/retested to be provided? Would it make sense to treat it as pretty much another start of gen (i.e. just unban everything and quickly reban anything that's demonstrably broken)? Idk if a suspect will even happen, but maybe it would be good for giving an idea to people voting of just how different a teraless metagame could be?
With varying degrees of potential brokenness, I think everything below is probably worth unbanning or at least looking into?
Definitely unban
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Worth a shot
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While I also don't think tera preview would really help, it might be more pragmatic to just have it as an option anyway. A half measure like that is probably more likely to get 60% in a suspect, and this is better than no progress at all which I fear is the likely outcome otherwise.Regarding a tera suspect, Tera Preview simply wouldn't be worth it (especially at this point) simply because it doesn't address the core issue with the mechanic as a whole, which imo happens from a teambuilding level. It effectively inflates the amount of huge threats to prep for on top of an already large list, and knowing what something will change into isn't something that if you didn't prep for it anyways. It doesn't reduce the pressure in the builder which drives the metagame towards such a heavy offense focused tier.
Regarding unbans in a theoretical non tera meta, I personally think a council vote on what to unban is more productive than simply unbanning everything as that would just be chaos again. Yeah you could quickly ban some things, but only so much. And I think it's better to focus on unbanning obvious cases and then gradually examine more borderline cases from there. Speaking of that, I think obvious cases include Regieleki (for obvious reasons) as well as Melmetal, Shedinja and Terapagos (again, obvious), and Dragapult. I'm sort of iffy on Ghold, as I'd still be worried about its Bulky NP sets impact on Balance since it abuses so many of the staples found there.
The worth a shot section you brought up, Gouging Fire was more broken as a result of Z moves than Tera and I'd rather it be left in the cage of Ubers. Darkrai was also more broken because of Z sets (especially Hynosis), so I'd leave that alone too. Palafin is probably okay to test, I'm sort of unsure about Hearthflame because it still doesn't really have many defense answers even without Tera. I think Ape and Espathra would possibly be okay in a nontera meta? The latter no longer having tera to cheat bad match ups would make it infinitely harder to stay on the field and accrue boosts and it wouldn't have an easy time getting through teams as nontera and non invested Dazzling Gleam is piss weak even at +1. And Ape similarly wouldn't be able to escape its bad defensive typing and would be easier to deny or limit its opportunities. Walking Wake can stay canned for ever though. Again, Z moves helped break it (some SubSunny sets ran them to stupid effect) and its partnership with ZardY is far more potent in a tier where it lacks many checks. It would honestly be harder to answer without Tera. I'm not entirely sure why DeoS is here, since its ban had little or nothing to do with Tera. And I'm also confused why Zygarde is here when it was never unbanned to begin with this gen, and would be every bit as miserably awful to play around as it always is. It was dumb last gen and it'd be dumb this gen.
Unbanning Deoxys-S is such a bad idea because literally only Mega Diancie beats it in the lead matchup. Glimmora, Landorus-T and Ribombee all lose to Taunt, while Grimmsnarl and Shuckle both lose to Magic Coat, all while Deoxys-S sets up with Stealth Rock, Spikes, Light Screen and Reflect. Unbanning Deoxys-S is just a massive buff to HO because only Mega Diancie teams can stop it from setting 10000 hazards before dying, and that's assuming it's not Dual Screens or not running some niche set that specifically beats Diancie (like idfk Groundium Z Stomping Tantrum to snipe it Turn 1).I'm not entirely sure why DeoS is here, since its ban had little or nothing to do with Tera. And I'm also confused why Zygarde is here when it was never unbanned to begin with this gen, and would be every bit as miserably awful to play around as it always is. It was dumb last gen and it'd be dumb this gen.
Deoxys speed has proven to be an underwhelming lead matchup, glimmora can easily beat it with mud shot or rock tomb sets and grimmsnarl easily beats it with foul play sets, its a nice mix of unpredictable where you dont know if its hazards or screens but its nothing overwhelming as a lead as well evidenced by how its performed in SV tiers even dropping to UU, every other lead has options to handle it if need beUnbanning Deoxys-S is such a bad idea because literally only Mega Diancie beats it in the lead matchup. Glimmora, Landorus-T and Ribombee all lose to Taunt, while Grimmsnarl and Shuckle both lose to Magic Coat, all while Deoxys-S sets up with Stealth Rock, Spikes, Light Screen and Reflect. Unbanning Deoxys-S is just a massive buff to HO because only Mega Diancie teams can stop it from setting 10000 hazards before dying, and that's assuming it's not Dual Screens or not running some niche set that specifically beats Diancie (like idfk Groundium Z Stomping Tantrum to snipe it Turn 1).
First of all, deo-s can still outspeed glimmora at -1 spe without huge investment. Also here deo-s has magic coat to win almost any hazard lead and nasty plot z set to breakDeoxys speed has proven to be an underwhelming lead matchup, glimmora can easily beat it with mud shot or rock tomb sets and grimmsnarl easily beats it with foul play sets, its a nice mix of unpredictable where you dont know if its hazards or screens but its nothing overwhelming as a lead as well evidenced by how its performed in SV tiers even dropping to UU, every other lead has options to handle it if need be
It falling to UU was a freak fluke because it was being underexplored and because ladder in SVOU can kinda suck at using good mons (they still use Meow which has sucked for awhile). Glimmora cannot "easily" beat it, as pointed out Deo-S still outruns it at -1 with minimal speed investment (like only needing 52 speed EVs to still outpace it, also Glimm is already much less viable here compared to SV anyways). While regular SVOU might have leads that can have a better time, here is a different story as Mega Diancie really is the only viable lead that can have a somewhat positive match up into it. There's Hamurott I guess if we're stretching? But that's better used outside the lead slot these days. At best it would just enable offense to an obnoxious degree and make the issue worse than it already is, which isn't something we need Tera or no.Deoxys speed has proven to be an underwhelming lead matchup, glimmora can easily beat it with mud shot or rock tomb sets and grimmsnarl easily beats it with foul play sets, its a nice mix of unpredictable where you dont know if its hazards or screens but its nothing overwhelming as a lead as well evidenced by how its performed in SV tiers even dropping to UU, every other lead has options to handle it if need be
Unbanning Shedninja is the most absurd idea i’ve heard of in a whileIf a tera suspect ever happens, will it be all or nothing like last time or will half measures like tera preview or banning tera blast be options? Honestly, I don't think anything but a full ban would really address the core issue but maybe it's worth a shot? Just so people don't feel like they have to pick between two extremes.
Before the suspect, would it be possible for a list of what the council would vote on to be unbanned/retested to be provided? Would it make sense to treat it as pretty much another start of gen (i.e. just unban everything and quickly reban anything that's demonstrably broken)? Idk if a suspect will even happen, but maybe it would be good for giving an idea to people voting of just how different a teraless metagame could be?
With varying degrees of potential brokenness, I think everything below is probably worth unbanning or at least looking into?
Definitely unban
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Worth a shot
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The only ones i agree with are gholdengo, kinggambit & zama...Definitely unban
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A few unbans you mentioned definitely deserve a shot (mainly gholdengo, gambit and dragapult), I’m not going to full on say that they deserve an unban. Gambit (from personal hate instead of it actually being broken) should stay banned, I’m not planning on posting about my hatred for gambit any time soon, but I hate that thing, and I know sucker punch spam has counter play, but then it has still left a scar. Anyways, Sneasler is a gambler’s wet dream, not worth a shot at all. R moon and annhilape will stay banned as long it’s Tera is allowed.If a tera suspect ever happens, will it be all or nothing like last time or will half measures like tera preview or banning tera blast be options? Honestly, I don't think anything but a full ban would really address the core issue but maybe it's worth a shot? Just so people don't feel like they have to pick between two extremes.
Before the suspect, would it be possible for a list of what the council would vote on to be unbanned/retested to be provided? Would it make sense to treat it as pretty much another start of gen (i.e. just unban everything and quickly reban anything that's demonstrably broken)? Idk if a suspect will even happen, but maybe it would be good for giving an idea to people voting of just how different a teraless metagame could be?
With varying degrees of potential brokenness, I think everything below is probably worth unbanning or at least looking into?
Definitely unban
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Worth a shot
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this was if tera was potentially banned i am pretty sure. shed would just be itself again.Unbanning Shedninja is the most absurd idea i’ve heard of in a while
We all know about the Tera electric air balloon madness, it’s even banned from ND Ubers!
It heavily restricts team options as they need 1 source of passive damage once it switches in, rocks aren’t an entirely good solution, since hazard removal/prevention exists but can help against a shedninja also it gets sunny day to prevent sandstorm/hail damage.
If Tera gets banned then shedninja definitely deserves an unban, but as long as it is able to Tera, it’s banned.
Yes I’ve stated that multiple times, the last sentence of the post was me stating that if it’s able to Tera, it stays banned.this was if tera was potentially banned i am pretty sure. shed would just be itself again.
What do you mean by Wesley? But anyways eleki will get to combat it’s only weakness, a ground type, 100 sp Atk is quite mediocre but then transistor exists for the electric moves so that’s a 0.8x multiplier of regieleki’s stabs as of gen 9, since it was a 2x multiplier in gen 8. It can easily beat lando (which alone doesn’t make a Pokémon broken) but then lando was it’s biggest checks, boltbeam eleki forces you’re ground type to have an ice resisting secondary typing, like swampert’s water or excadrill’s steel, but that restricts team building heavily, not to say that these ground types are bad, just to say that it’s hyper specific on which ground types you can use, and a ground type is very important for a team, with it being, well not a must have but more of a should have.well i definitely skipped the last sentence since you were just rallying against a strawman of unbanning shed right now haha
back to the point, i think i agree with wesley plus eleki and melm. idk why eleki would stay banned. please feel free to enlighten me tho.
z pult is still insane, screw wake and rai and snease and gouge and palafin. still wish roaring moon could join the party but z drag/ground/dark is a problem too.
I just went on a useless yap sesh that means, damn.again, this is if tera is banned... i'm not sure if you're intentionally strawmanning or not at this point. if you scroll up you will see a post by user Wesleyy.
Some stinkers i keep hearing:
I keep hearing this one over and over, the main argument seems to be that since Kingambit eould be unbanned, it would be fine, all while that is partially true, it's only partially. One most players will pre plan on ways to beat Kingambit, either by nailing the switchin with Focus Blast, or double switchin into it woth mons like Great Tusk. Tapu Lele also blocks Sucker Punch, alloeing dengo to attack it without fear of said priority move. Once Gambit is gone, Dengo would be free to deny hazard removal, and while I wouldn't be against the Kingambit vs Gholdengo dynamic, as I think it can reward skillful play, I am not a fan of making the game feel like youre walking in a room full of legos. Hazards stacking would most likely see a copium amount of usage, amd sticky webs would legit be a viable strategy now.
Trick Room players be like:But no Chili dewd, Trick room is not meme