Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Patar136]

Ursaluna is just as unwallable in Trick Room as Melmetal, if not more, because it doesn't have to be choice locked and has perfect coverage. Melmetal would be nice to act as a powerful tool for Trick Room but wouldn't be broken. No more than Ursaluna.

People keep saying "Banded Palafin in rain is so scary against everything" just sounds like you are ignoring the fact that Waterpon is everywhere. You are forced to run Choice Scarf just so that you aren't walled by it. And choice band can be revenge killed by Raging Bolt, Rillaboom and just scouted with Protect. I have yet to hear an argument on why Palafin is more broken than Waterpon. Hell on a defensive team, Clodsire can just straight-up wall Palafin with Water Absorb sets (what it already runs to beat rain) and Choice Band Zen Headbutt can only 2HKO back so a defensive team can just pivot to a teammate that punishes that (like a pursuit user.) And that shit doesn't work against Waterpon because its so naturally fast and unwallable.

Also somebody mentioned Kingambit being untouched by Ferrothorn. And to that, Body Press. Hell we can probably see Magnezone get used more to trap Kingambit which would be fun.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

People keep saying "Banded Palafin in rain is so scary against everything" just sounds like you are ignoring the fact that Waterpon is everywhere. You are forced to run Choice Scarf just so that you aren't walled by it. And choice band can be revenge killed by Raging Bolt, Rillaboom and just scouted with Protect. I have yet to hear an argument on why Palafin is more broken than Waterpon. Hell on a defensive team, Clodsire can just straight-up wall Palafin with Water Absorb sets (what it already runs to beat rain) and Choice Band Zen Headbutt can only 2HKO back so a defensive team can just pivot to a teammate that punishes that (like a pursuit user.) And that shit doesn't work against Waterpon because its so naturally fast and unwallable.

Alright then:
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 180-212 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Rain: 185-218 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(For Dondozo standard's, this is rough)

252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 194-229 (64.4 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(One good read and its chunked)

252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clodsire: 330-390 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Clodsire doesn't even run Water Absorb in 2024)

The only water immune that seems to handle it decently is Gastrodon, which not only wouldn't it fit on every team, Palafin players can always find ways around Gastrodon thanks to its exploitable Grass weakness. And even if it was the perfect answer, having only 1 pokemon handle a broken mon isn't a very healthy dynamic, especially for those who can't afford running Gastrodon. This is also one set to, people can be inventive with the Palafin and run things like Sub + 3 attacks to better nail its few answers. This mon is essentially a Slaking with Water Stab and without Truant. (Think about it for a second...)

 

[Patar136]

Palafin Wave Crash vs. Water Absorb Ogerpon-Wellspring: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Palafin Flip Turn vs. Water Absorb Ogerpon-Wellspring: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Palafin Jet Punch vs. Water Absorb Ogerpon-Wellspring: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Sure buddy.

Look all I'm saying is that if we have Ogerpon-Wellspring running amuck, we shouldn't have that much of a harder time dealing with Palafin.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

kingambit unban w/ tera ban = breloom stonks
but for real, 4x fighting weakness where HP fighting, upper hand, vac wave, mach punch, body press etc etc all exist in harmony. we can work it out. probably.

been a week but this is absurd. and Patar136 also said Gambit would be what, Checkable by the likes of ferrothorn, I'll get to it
-No one runs HP figting
-Upper hand is only ever used on niche things like Hitmonlee and Blaziken
-Vacuum wave is weak asf, Val need a CM to kill and not all vals run it
-Mach punch I guess is referencing to Breloom
-Body press on things like 40+def ferro don't OHKO. and supreme overlord Knock OHKO about everything
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 1 ally fainted Kingambit Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 40+ Def Ferrothorn: 331-391 (94 - 111%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes and u r running like bpress on Ferro what the hell.
Wellspring is everywhere, sure, but have you thought abt the fact that One misspredict and it's dead?
6 | Ogerpon-Wellspring | 13.70816%
and What about not to sacrifice 86,292% of teams?

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Palafin Wave Crash vs. Water Absorb Ogerpon-Wellspring: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Palafin Flip Turn vs. Water Absorb Ogerpon-Wellspring: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Palafin Jet Punch vs. Water Absorb Ogerpon-Wellspring: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Sure buddy.

Look all I'm saying is that if we have Ogerpon-Wellspring running amuck, we shouldn't have that much of a harder time dealing with Palafin.

Sure, lets forget Palafin has 3 other moves that he can click, nor the fact that there is 5 other mons on the opposing team.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

-Mach punch I guess is referencing to Breloom

252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 340-408 (99.7 - 119.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Go ahead and sucker punch this Kingambit...

 

[Patar136]

Those are the three moves you want on your Palafin most of the time. You then have to pick one of Close Combat, Ice Punch or Zen Headbutt. Or you drop one of the three moves you want. I think our tier could adapt to it. We can test Palafin and see what happens. If it's broken, after a test, we ban it again. If people won't ban Waterpon, we shouldn't ban Palafin by default. Now if we axe Waterpon, sure, let the dolphin stay in Ubers.

Also for Kingambit, we like having more anti offense Pokemon. That's a good thing.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Those are the three moves you want on your Palafin most of the time. You then have to pick one of Close Combat, Ice Punch or Zen Headbutt. Or you drop one of the three moves you want. I think our tier could adapt to it. We can test Palafin and see what happens. If it's broken, after a test, we ban it again. If people won't ban Waterpon, we shouldn't ban Palafin by default. Now if we axe Waterpon, sure, let the dolphin stay in Ubers.

Also for Kingambit, we like having more anti offense Pokemon. That's a good thing.

You can run Bulk Up sets, which do lose to Dondozo but then beat a significant portion of the metagame, and only run a single Water move in Jet Punch. It was cited as a key factor in its OU ban, for what it's worth. Waterpon being around doesn't make it less broken. Why should we waste time on a Palafin retest when we can just as easily suspect anything else that the community deems worthy?

Kingambit isn't inherently an anti-offense Pokemon. It does certainly help against offense, yes, but most offenses carry at least 1 offensive resist to Sucker Punch. If anything, it boosts offense by giving it an insane endgame cleaner that can also potentially beat Stall and has a great MU into bulkier teams.

 

[sh0shin]

been a week but this is absurd. and Patar136 also said Gambit would be what, Checkable by the likes of ferrothorn, I'll get to it
-No one runs HP figting
-Upper hand is only ever used on niche things like Hitmonlee and Blaziken
-Vacuum wave is weak asf, Val need a CM to kill and not all vals run it
-Mach punch I guess is referencing to Breloom
-Body press on things like 40+def ferro don't OHKO. and supreme overlord Knock OHKO about everything
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 1 ally fainted Kingambit Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 40+ Def Ferrothorn: 331-391 (94 - 111%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes and u r running like bpress on Ferro what the hell.
Wellspring is everywhere, sure, but have you thought abt the fact that One misspredict and it's dead?
6 | Ogerpon-Wellspring | 13.70816%
and What about not to sacrifice 86,292% of teams?

yeah fair. cress did run HP fight on CM tera poison sets though, specifically for gambit. i wasn't super adamant about gambit being okay without tera, just figured, hey, we have a shitload of its 4x weakness around, so probably fine? defensive tusk def makes an ez comeback.

i will say i didnt realize just how tiny mach punch distro is, that's insane. lol

 

[Patar136]

Look I will prioritize what I want tested in what order.

1.) Kingambit Suspect Test

2.) Gholdengo Suspect Test

3.) Palafin Suspect Test

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Look I will prioritize what I want tested in what order.

1.) Kingambit Suspect Test

2.) Gholdengo Suspect Test

3.) Palafin Suspect Test

You REALLY wanna click Banded Wave Crashes, don't ya?

 

[sh0shin]

just give me melmetal and regieleki back man. that's all I want :( gods of slow and speed, dormant.

 

[Patar136]

You REALLY wanna click Banded Wave Crashes, don't ya?

Silly Chili Dog. I can already do that with Floatzel. Or Kingdra, my beloved.

Maybe you just don't want to use Waterpon. Which, fair.

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Silly Chili Dog. I can already do that with Floatzel. Or Kingdra, my beloved.

Maybe you just don't want to use Waterpon. Which, fair.

Maybe I want a balance metagame, didn't tought of that?

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Silly Chili Dog. I can already do that with Floatzel. Or Kingdra, my beloved.

Maybe you just don't want to use Waterpon. Which, fair.

Maybe 86,292% of people not runing waterpon might not want Palafin to Comeback? it makes no sense to retest Ghold and Gambit in, they are broken regardless of the Ability to tera or not. Knock Gambit is a nuke, Pursuit gambit invalidates two entire types as a whole, it has Low kick for Physdef Ferro, Even if at +2, Supreme overlord black glasses, Knock is enough to OHKO.

Palafin is broken. nukes everything that doesn't resist water and what is waterpon when Hazards? Besides, what if Pala dropped flip turn and went for CC? Then there is no such thing as wellspring walling it, at all.

 

[Patar136]

Yes there is such a thing as walling Palafin. Waterpon forces Palafin out immediately.

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin: 362-428 (106.1 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin Hero Form: 284-336 (83.2 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin-Hero: 456-536 (133.7 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just say you don't like Palafin, not that it's broken. I don't like Waterpon at all. I would love for it to be banned. But since it's not, might as well free Palafin. A team that loses to Waterpon also loses to Palafin. Maybe you all just want sun teams to stay dominant and Palafin throws a wrench into that idea... except that any Chlorophyll mon beats it when sun is up. Besides, shitty mons like Scovillain. I'm tired of arguing with nonsense. Just ban Waterpon and I won't be bringing up all this hypocrisy.

I'm not even prioritizing Palafin that much. Would much rather see Kingambit freed or Gholdengo. They would be good Pokemon for the metagame. A reliable ghost type that can make hazard stacking a staple again and a pursuit trapper that fights bullshit Hyper Offense. Oh, but Ferrothorn without defensive investment loses to it (Kingambit is in OU where no Ferrothorn exists at all, and it's fine.) Kingambit is stopped in so many ways that all of you conveniently overlook.

Waiting for one of you to say that Kingambit is broken because it beats stall. So does Kyurem, a mon that several of you want to ban already just on principle. In a tera less metagame too for the record, where it can't Tera Ground to beat Heatran, Raging Bolt and cough cough Kingambit cough cough.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Yes there is such a thing as walling Palafin. Waterpon forces Palafin out immediately.

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin: 362-428 (106.1 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin Hero Form: 284-336 (83.2 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin-Hero: 456-536 (133.7 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just say you don't like Palafin, not that it's broken. I don't like Waterpon at all. I would love for it to be banned. But since it's not, might as well free Palafin. A team that loses to Waterpon also loses to Palafin. Maybe you all just want sun teams to stay dominant and Palafin throws a wrench into that idea... except that any Chlorophyll mon beats it when sun is up. Besides, shitty mons like Scovillain. I'm tired of arguing with nonsense. Just ban Waterpon and I won't be bringing up all this hypocrisy.

I'm not even prioritizing Palafin that much. Would much rather see Kingambit freed or Gholdengo. They would be good Pokemon for the metagame. A reliable ghost type that can make hazard stacking a staple again and a pursuit trapper that fights bullshit Hyper Offense. Oh, but Ferrothorn without defensive investment loses to it (Kingambit is in OU where no Ferrothorn exists at all, and it's fine.) Kingambit is stopped in so many ways that all of you conveniently overlook.

Waiting for one of you to say that Kingambit is broken because it beats stall. So does Kyurem, a mon that several of you want to ban already just on principle. In a tera less metagame too for the record, where it can't Tera Ground to beat Heatran, Raging Bolt and cough cough Kingambit cough cough.

This has to be the funniest post I have seen thus far in this thread.

Sure, Waterpon forces Palafin out. Now, what will you do when I go into my Grass resist (of which there are plenty)? If you come back in, you're probably taking Rocks damage, and getting hit by a couple Close Combats decimates Waterpon anyways.

I'm fine with Waterpon. I don't have a vendetta against Palafin, as you seemingly think. Palafin has even less counterplay than Waterpon, thanks to Jet Punch screwing over a lot of HO and offense and its sheer power doing a ton to Balance teams. The only playstyle it struggles into is Stall, but even there if Dondozo dies or gets chipped Palafin easily wins.

Sun is not dominant, although granted I haven't seen the low-ladder experience.

 

[sh0shin]

i fail to see how centralizing the meta further around ogerpon-wellspring (or dondozo for that matter) makes for a healthier meta overall.

 

[Oculars]

people still trying to cope over waterpon seem to have no ability to adapt to the metagame, balance has plenty of options to check it and in recent balance teams ive loaded to success in tours ive used these mons to easily check pon, things such as helmet tang and hydrapple are splashable and viable counters to pon, along with any variety of priority or dragon types, play rough is a barely used set and doesnt disqualify these mons as checks, same way that mega scizor is still a kyurem check even tho hp fire exists. theres also a million mons that naturally run tera dragon and can easily handle pon through status or chip. Loading balance pon is significantly less scary than mons with bigger set variety due to its linear nature and an inability to handle it is just bad team building. The only mons that give balance a hard time are those with unpredictable sets, mons that are linear can easily be outplayed or countered with competent team building.

see this team ab15g heat despite being slow and barely offensive BO it easily handles waterpon builds and is well adapted to the meta.

 

[Patar136]

Sun is not dominant, although granted I haven't seen the low-ladder experience. Perhaps you have more experience there.

Sure, go ahead and say that my opinion is invalid compared to yours. I'll decide not to do the same and say you raise some decent points.

You wanna just shit talk everything I say then fine, you can lead your parade and just say I'm a braindead zombie. I don't have the energy to argue back against your arrogance so I'll just stop talking about Palafin. Like I said, I have other things I would prioritize.

Although I will propose for argument's sake that we could just ban Jet Punch. However, that's probably too hard to do, right? We can't just ban one move on one Pokemon. That's too much energy.

 

[Runo]

I, too, am tired with arguing with your nonsense.

Notice how Tera isn't unbanned and yet there are 50+ posts about post-Tera unbans for some reason. Let's actually get the mechanic removed from the tier first instead of theorymonning @ forum mains. Such a terrible way to degrade the quality of this thread.

---

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ctober-2024-november-45.3752345/post-10323946
| 38 | | 5.110% |
Swampert-Mega would've been back in OU again since Rain is still insanely strong here, this dude just keeps flip-flopping in and out of tiers.

| 39 | | 5.030% |
Err what??? I guess this mon is half decent so long as it has Pursuit and Tera but like this has a higher usage than Mega Tyranitar man. Is Tera really that more valuable than the raw bulk and power?

| 42 | | 4.700% |
I fuck with Ting-Lu in OU heavy. Very strong tank against a lot of the bullshit in this metagame like KokoCrownMoth cores. Whirlwind is also really useful when trying to delay a Archaludon or a Raging Bolt win.

| 43 | | 4.586% |
Weird how this got a significant more amount of usage compared to Blissey and Chansey. Perhaps they are just competiting with each other too much. Dondozo itself is pretty interesting when trying to check shit like Dragon Dance Kyurem or Dragonite, which is probably why it occasionally gets experimented with outside of stall on balance teams.

| 45 | | 4.555% |
Think this was mentioned in the discord but Iron Moth is insanely good right now and its nice that its getting the usage that it's deserving of after being in UU since the start of the gen. Was pretty popular in NDPL thanks to it fitting really nicely on those Tapu Koko offenses and Booster Spam HO teams. Tera makes this a bitch to play against since checks like Toxapex, Heatran, and Garganacl get dunked on by Tera Ground while Raging Bolt loses a very easy way to pressure it in Thunderclap. Our other workable priority options for it are Urshifu's Aqua Jet and Dragonite's Extreme Speed, the former of which can just lose to Tera Grass while the latter hates Tera Ghost acting as a priority blocker. OU seems to be stealing checks from UU though so it could very well just be a limited time resurgence for Iron Moth.

| 46 | | 4.539% |
Another powerful threat that is getting the usage it deserves. Fits really well on the standard Offense comps because of its catch all priority letting it harass powerful threats like Ogerpon-W and Iron Valiant. It's STABs (especially Close Combat) have always been nightmares to switch into consistently and it's made harder with coverage options like Ice Punch trolling Landorus-T hard.

| 47 | | 4.507% |
Although it didn't really get enough usage to be OU this time around, I personally think Slowbro got way better as of late. Stuff like Kartana is way less good now while a fat bulky water is still stellar into threats like Landorus-T, Great Tusk, Barraskewda, amd Urshifu-RS. Obviously it faces competition with Alomomola and Toxapex but a key reason to use it over the both of them would be the fact that it checks the rising Mega Medicham. It's actually a nice inbetween for teams looking for a strong fighting resist, a rain check, and a slow pivot in one slot. I think Calm Mind is a pretty funny take on the Slowbrother here, harasses a lot of the standard Slowbro checks like Ferrothorn and Kyurem so it's a decent wincon on balance teams and isn't that much of a Tera hog. Psychic Noise does wonders here and should probably be on base slowbro in general so it can keep up with threats like Mega Scizor and Rillaboom. Because of Ceruledge being a pain to defensively check for Non-Mega Lopunny balance teams, I liked the idea of running Red Card to blank it while also giving the team a stopgap against Booster Mons like Iron Valiant. Outside of that other items like Boots and Rocky Helmet are still cool.


This is unrelated to usage but Swords Dance + Flyinum Z Landorus-T is a hella toxic breaker as of recent. Not to say that its broken or anything but it's really good at preying on those defensive cores seen on offense which rely on opposing Landorus-T or Alomomola to check stuff on the physical side. Not exactly easy to determine it from a Defog or Scarf Landorus-T on preview either so just a set one needs to scout and make sure they aren't being to complacent with the mon.

 

[Sami]

| 39 | | 5.030% |
Err what??? I guess this mon is half decent so long as it has Pursuit and Tera but like this has a higher usage than Mega Tyranitar man. Is Tera really that more valuable than the raw bulk and power?

I've seen two sets be used on ladder:


Probably the worse of the two IMO (not like it matters they both suck) but the extra bulk is actually somewhat useful for Tyranitar, especially with Tera options like Ghost, Fairy and Poison making it pretty reliably bulky into most special attackers, even if it loses the Sandstorm boost. I see a lot of Tera Flying use but it's actually pretty bad because of Stealth Rock, and dodging Toxic Spikes is done 1000x better by Tera Poison. Anyways, this thing does tank some special moves better than Mega Tyranitar:

Its bulkier! Thats cool right?

252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 180-213 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 102-120 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 266-314 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Electric Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 176-208 (47 - 55.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Electric Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 100-118 (24.7 - 29.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO


+1 172 SpA Quark Drive Iron Crown Focus Blast vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 524-620 (140.1 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 172 SpA Quark Drive Iron Crown Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 292-348 (72.2 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


200 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 62-74 (15.3 - 18.3%) -- possible 6HKO
200 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 110-130 (29.4 - 34.7%) -- 8.8% chance to 3HKO


252 SpA Latios-Mega Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 136-160 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latios-Mega Aura Sphere vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 236-280 (63.1 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sure the damage drop is absolutely abysmal but if this is your only check into a specific attacker like Mega Latios, or you've used your Mega on something like Mega Scizor and need a Mega Charizard Y check, I can somewhat see the vision. Alomomola is usually spammed alongside it to makeup for its lack of healing, and I've seen Rillaboom be used too to heal it via Grassy Terrain. The teams I've seen aren't the best but they're far from bad IMO.


This is the second set I've seen and used. Tyranitar still has a pretty good offensive typing aside from Great Tusk, and even switch-ins like Landorus-T don't appreciate Knock Off even if it isn't nuking them. I've used it alongside Mega Charizard Y since its able to pressure out the Lati Twins, Slowking-G, other super special walls and soft checking Dragonite for Zard-Y while Zard-Y in return helps to wallbreak through fatter structures using Landorus-T and Great Tusk in return. It's alright, not the greatest but I'd say this is the better set for base Tyranitar than AV since that requires teammates to make up for it's passivity into Landorus-T, Great Tusk, Gliscor, Garchomp etc etc, while making up for what Banded Tyranitar can't break through is pretty easy comparatively.

 

[Patar136]

On the subject of Tyranitar a reason ir has seen more use can probably be attributed to Zamazenta being gone. While Great Tusk counters most sets besides stuff like max special attack sets with ice beam (though even that is a stretch) Zamazenta just naturally beat Tyranitar easily and either forced it to Tera or forced it out. With Zamazenta gone, Tyranitar can actually use its good offensive stats to be a sort of bulky wallbreaker. It annoys other weather teams and can pursuit trap some stuff on occasion. Though why Mega Tyranitar isn’t used is still strange to me.

Now where are the Sand Rush Excadrill teams? That would be fun to see on ladder.

 

[sh0shin]

A few trends I've seen lately (shoutout Psychic types):

Pinkacross popularizing Specs Iron Crown on Terrain with Koko support has me fighting demons. I have run into it a few times now and my standard/meta teams can really struggle with this.

set

Alakazam @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Psychic / Fairy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball / Dazzling Gleam

Few folks have been running some NP LO Zam lately and I really fuck with it. Great speed tier, breaking power. Not a whole ton of priority to contend with though obviously there are yet a few threats supplying it (and Paradox mons are fast as hell with Booster). It also pairs pretty well with a couple of those Fake Out users in Lopunny and Medicham. I've had the idea for a while to try out some Expanding Force Tera Psychic shenanigans, though haven't landed on a decent structure yet. That, and the classic Sash Counter tech...

Not exactly a novel threat, but Kyo's team with OTR Mixed Hoopa-U has been making the rounds and it's pretty slick. While TR (or maybe even mixed, lol) wasn't revealed in any recent games, Kyo said anyone could have the paste at this point, and he may yet post it in an NDPL team dump. I'll leave the other details out for now and let y'all fiddle around with the concept. Just know that it's pretty much undefeated in NDPL, NDFL, and Last Chance from what I can tell.
edit: team here

 

[Chilli Dewd]

Yes there is such a thing as walling Palafin. Waterpon forces Palafin out immediately.

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin: 362-428 (106.1 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin Hero Form: 284-336 (83.2 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Palafin-Hero: 456-536 (133.7 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just say you don't like Palafin, not that it's broken. I don't like Waterpon at all. I would love for it to be banned. But since it's not, might as well free Palafin. A team that loses to Waterpon also loses to Palafin. Maybe you all just want sun teams to stay dominant and Palafin throws a wrench into that idea... except that any Chlorophyll mon beats it when sun is up. Besides, shitty mons like Scovillain. I'm tired of arguing with nonsense. Just ban Waterpon and I won't be bringing up all this hypocrisy.

I'm not even prioritizing Palafin that much. Would much rather see Kingambit freed or Gholdengo. They would be good Pokemon for the metagame. A reliable ghost type that can make hazard stacking a staple again and a pursuit trapper that fights bullshit Hyper Offense. Oh, but Ferrothorn without defensive investment loses to it (Kingambit is in OU where no Ferrothorn exists at all, and it's fine.) Kingambit is stopped in so many ways that all of you conveniently overlook.

Waiting for one of you to say that Kingambit is broken because it beats stall. So does Kyurem, a mon that several of you want to ban already just on principle. In a tera less metagame too for the record, where it can't Tera Ground to beat Heatran, Raging Bolt and cough cough Kingambit cough cough.

Not only do u insist on having suck broken mon allowed, but you also dared called Scovillain a shitmon...