Unpopular opinions

sorry for double post but imo XY is still pretty lore incomplete, moreso than a lot of games for a few reasons though

1.stuff like Anastar City, I still barely know what the big crystal is for. Like did i just miss this part? I'm a lore nerd so I kinda feel like there just isn't an explanation, but I don't know it if there is one.

2. things that had to be done in other games; ie. Zygarde-Complete being SM, ORAS giving its own explanation for Megas in the Delta Episode

3. AZ-Floette type stuff

4. the events are really boring as many have complained about, and imo that degrades the lore because there isn't really any additions from them. they kinda just exist

now that isn't to say that XY isn't cool and it's like, seriously fucked over- ive actually felt the main campaign of XY is overhated for a while now, it's solid- the post game is the ass part. i played it like 5 times in a year as a kid (not exaggerating) and i had a blast each time.

but it does feel like a game where a lot of the ideas they had were taken and thrown into other games for the rest of the generation.

now the actually most bankrupt region is Galar bc i still do not get much about that region and i put 200 hours into it. its a place with british people and there's gyms and there was dynamax and eternatus. zacian and zamazenta were heroes?
 
I don’t really see XY’s lore as incomplete, personally. I think it’s just fundamentally not very complex to begin with.

There’s three Legendaries — one gives life, one takes it, one keeps the two of them in balance. The life and death ones generally exist in a stable cycle of activity and hibernation.

3,000 years ago, there was a man who used strange technology to make Kalos prosperous, but eventually that led to conflict, which led to a war, in which the king’s beloved Pokémon died. He used his technology and the power of the Legendary Pokémon to make a resurrection machine, and then turned it into a weapon which he used to end the war.

The power of the Legendary Pokémon being channeled through the weapon affected the rocks buried in the soil of Kalos, turning them into Mega Stones. Eventually, some bloke with a Lucario dug some up, discovered Mega Evolution, and built a tower to train people in the art.

Sure, there’s some odds and ends on the fringes, but that’s not really a quality that’s exclusive to Kalos’s lore. Gen 5 left the Abyssal Ruins pretty vague, despite offering a few more breadcrumbs in B2W2, and of course has still never shown the original dragon. I could go on and on about how Gen 7 leaves lots of things unclear or underdeveloped when it comes to Ultra Space or the Ultra Beasts. Gen 8 introduced two new Regis with almost no context for why the exist in Galar, didn’t explain how Galarian forms of the Legendary birds came about (it probably has something to do with the Dyna Tree, but what?), and gestures at some kind of conflict between Calyrex and Eternatus without ever going into detail. Then of course you’ve got Gen 9 and some of the leftover Area Zero mysteries.

And like, at least for me, I kinda prefer leaving a few things up in the air. I don’t really feel a need to know to know how AZ came upon that mysterious advanced technology; I know the impact it had on Kalos throughout history and that’s all that the story really needs me to understand. I can enjoy speculating about the rest.
 
Esserise said:
I don’t really see XY’s lore as incomplete, personally. I think it’s just fundamentally not very complex to begin with.

There’s three Legendaries — one gives life, one takes it, one keeps the two of them in balance. The life and death ones generally exist in a stable cycle of activity and hibernation.

3,000 years ago, there was a man who used strange technology to make Kalos prosperous, but eventually that led to conflict, which led to a war, in which the king’s beloved Pokémon died. He used his technology and the power of the Legendary Pokémon to make a resurrection machine, and then turned it into a weapon which he used to end the war.

The power of the Legendary Pokémon being channeled through the weapon affected the rocks buried in the soil of Kalos, turning them into Mega Stones. Eventually, some bloke with a Lucario dug some up, discovered Mega Evolution, and built a tower to train people in the art.

Sure, there’s some odds and ends on the fringes, but that’s not really a quality that’s exclusive to Kalos’s lore. Gen 5 left the Abyssal Ruins pretty vague, despite offering a few more breadcrumbs in B2W2, and of course has still never shown the original dragon. I could go on and on about how Gen 7 leaves lots of things unclear or underdeveloped when it comes to Ultra Space or the Ultra Beasts. Gen 8 introduced two new Regis with almost no context for why the exist in Galar, didn’t explain how Galarian forms of the Legendary birds came about (it probably has something to do with the Dyna Tree, but what?), and gestures at some kind of conflict between Calyrex and Eternatus without ever going into detail. Then of course you’ve got Gen 9 and some of the leftover Area Zero mysteries.

And like, at least for me, I kinda prefer leaving a few things up in the air. I don’t really feel a need to know to know how AZ came upon that mysterious advanced technology; I know the impact it had on Kalos throughout history and that’s all that the story really needs me to understand. I can enjoy speculating about the rest.
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Actually AZ's technology is inferrably explained, just again through ORAS lore

ORAS expands on the concept of "infinity energy" which it implies can be taken from Pokemon as a bioenergy. This in the same gen as AZ's machine which sacrificed tons of Pokemon to me is pretty clear, AZ used the infinity energy ("life force") from Pokemon in order to revive Floette and then use the rest as basically a nuke.

So basically the machine harnesses infinity energy, which I don't think is that much more mysterious to the world than say, a Pokecenter machine, or much of the other tech. About as explained as most futuristic stuff in the series tbh. We even know how it's actually powered.
 
ant4456 said:
Actually AZ's technology is inferrably explained, just again through ORAS lore

ORAS expands on the concept of "infinity energy" which it implies can be taken from Pokemon as a bioenergy. This in the same gen as AZ's machine which sacrificed tons of Pokemon to me is pretty clear, AZ used the infinity energy ("life force") from Pokemon in order to revive Floette and then use the rest as basically a nuke.

So basically the machine harnesses infinity energy, which I don't think is that much more mysterious to the world than say, a Pokecenter machine, or much of the other tech. About as explained as most futuristic stuff in the series tbh. We even know how it's actually powered.
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I meant more like the crystalline material we see with the weapon & presumably the sundial, but yeah, even ORAS did expound on the weapon’s inner workings a bit

Mainly my point is that XY didn’t really leave me with a lot of questions, and the ones it did are ones I think are better left as speculation fodder

No one cares about the ghost girl in SwSh, where we were given a concrete answer and backstory behind her existence, but the ghost girl in Kalos has been intriguing for years because she’s completely enigmatic. Personally I prefer that.
 
Esserise said:
I meant more like the crystalline material we see with the weapon & presumably the sundial, but yeah, even ORAS did expound on the weapon’s inner workings a bit

Mainly my point is that XY didn’t really leave me with a lot of questions, and the ones it did are ones I think are better left as speculation fodder

No one cares about the ghost girl in SwSh, where we were given a concrete answer and backstory behind her existence, but the ghost girl in Kalos has been intriguing for years because she’s completely enigmatic. Personally I prefer that.
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Yeah fair point, I think XY does a decent job at answering its questions, you're right

There was a ghost girl in SWSH?

Wait I forgot about that wtf

SWSH is weird because a lot of the house environments are actually pretty decently detailed, but the NPCs themselves usually have nothing to say
 
ant4456 said:
Yeah fair point, I think XY does a decent job at answering its questions, you're right

There was a ghost girl in SWSH?

Wait I forgot about that wtf

SWSH is weird because a lot of the house environments are actually pretty decently detailed, but the NPCs themselves usually have nothing to say
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Yeah, there’s a little girl in Hammerlocke who asks you to deliver a letter to a person named Frank in Ballonlea

You get to Ballonlea and find an older man named Frank, who relays a story about a friend of his named Paula from back when he was a kid. They spent all that time together, but at some point she got sick. She kept that illness a secret, but eventually Frank found out and they got into an argument, and Frank’s family moved away not long after, so they didn’t ever get a chance to resolve their conflict.

When you return to Hammerlocke after delivering the letter, the girl is gone and in her place is a Reaper Cloth.

So like it’s pretty clear what the deal is there. Girl got sick and died young with regrets over keeping it a secret and the argument she got into with her friend, until you deliver the letter to him which allows her spirit to move on.

Tragic, sure, but it’s incredibly standard ghost stuff and thus pretty unmemorable. I worry about the possibility of reducing Kalos’s hidden bits of intrigue, like the ghost girl or the message on the back of the sign at the train station, into such dull incidents.
 
It's weird how Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde are considered a trio despite how little the latter is connected to the other two. Zygarde is said to bring order by protecting the ecosystem from...who exactly? Yveltal's corrosive power? But Xerneas ability to share energy to others is what counterbalances Yveltal. You just find Zygarde in Terminus Cave with no other corelation besides an ability that counters Fairy Aura and Dark Aura. They do more with Zygarde in the anime and next generation, in the former it's the spotlight legendary but then again, nothing to do with Xerneas and Yveltal; and in SM he goes to Alola (Protector of Kalos lmaoooo) under the threat of the Ultra Beasts.

I mean, at least Zacian Zamazenta and Eternatus are not pretending to be a trio, but with the XYZ "trio" is pretty notable how disconnected is the Z from the XY...
 
pokemon4eva said:
It's weird how Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde are considered a trio despite how little the latter is connected to the other two. Zygarde is said to bring order by protecting the ecosystem from...who exactly? Yveltal's corrosive power? But Xerneas ability to share energy to others is what counterbalances Yveltal. You just find Zygarde in Terminus Cave with no other corelation besides an ability that counters Fairy Aura and Dark Aura. They do more with Zygarde in the anime and next generation, in the former it's the spotlight legendary but then again, nothing to do with Xerneas and Yveltal; and in SM he goes to Alola (Protector of Kalos lmaoooo) under the threat of the Ultra Beasts.
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Such is the inevitable result of Z being axed

That said, I think Zygarde’s deal is sort of two-fold: it protects the ecosystem from anyone that tries to harm it, rather than just Xerneas and Yveltal.

When it comes to those two in particular, the concept (which Z probably would have elaborated on) is that both life and death have to be kept in balance. One of Lysandre’s big concerns in XY is overpopulation leading to resource scarcity. Although Lysandre’s specific claims were paranoid and poorly substantiated, overpopulation is a real phenomenon that can occur, and it does negatively impact the ecosystem. So on one end of the scale, too much proliferation of life leads to overpopulation (which in turn leads to more death), and on the other end of the scale, too much death leads to extinction. Zygarde is there for when life and death can no longer function as effective counters to one another.
 
pokemon4eva said:
It's weird how Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde are considered a trio despite how little the latter is connected to the other two. Zygarde is said to bring order by protecting the ecosystem from...who exactly? Yveltal's corrosive power? But Xerneas ability to share energy to others is what counterbalances Yveltal. You just find Zygarde in Terminus Cave with no other corelation besides an ability that counters Fairy Aura and Dark Aura. They do more with Zygarde in the anime and next generation, in the former it's the spotlight legendary but then again, nothing to do with Xerneas and Yveltal; and in SM he goes to Alola (Protector of Kalos lmaoooo) under the threat of the Ultra Beasts.
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It's especially weird because it's such an odd combo of typings. Dark/Flying, Fairy, and Dragon/Ground? Zygarde loses to both members of the trio based purely on typing, and the signature moves make it worse. And Xerneas makes Yveltal look like a joke if they face off. Combined with Zygarde having a lower BST than the other two(and Zygarde's BSTs being odd overall), it really makes me wonder what they were actually trying to accomplish with this trio.
 
Esserise said:
No one cares about the ghost girl in SwSh, where we were given a concrete answer and backstory behind her existence, but the ghost girl in Kalos has been intriguing for years because she’s completely enigmatic. Personally I prefer that.
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Ghost girls don't need an explanation, and besides, it's been a decade after XY with zero answers. Any answer after a 10-year long mystery is going to disappoint people.
 
Hugin said:
It's especially weird because it's such an odd combo of typings. Dark/Flying, Fairy, and Dragon/Ground? Zygarde loses to both members of the trio based purely on typing, and the signature moves make it worse. And Xerneas makes Yveltal look like a joke if they face off. Combined with Zygarde having a lower BST than the other two(and Zygarde's BSTs being odd overall), it really makes me wonder what they were actually trying to accomplish with this trio.
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I think Fairy and Dark make enough sense as anything else for the Pokémon of Life and Death, and Yveltal gets Flying as a bonus because bird. :smogonbird:

What I’m skeptical of is the necessity of / reasoning for Zygarde being Dragon-type. It’s supposed to protect the ecosystem, so Ground is fine — Earth, Gaia, all that stuff — and they even gave it a bespoke way of dealing with Yveltal’s immunity to Ground in the form of Thousand Arrows.

But what’s Dragon really doing there? In the very same game where they made a concerted effort to weaken the Dragon type by introducing the Fairy type, they go and make the Pokémon that’s supposed to subdue the Fairy-type Legendary into a Dragon type? And why? Because it’s a snake, and snake = reptile = dragon? Except there’s plenty of non-Dragon snakes in the series. We even got a pure Ground-type one two generations later.

Not to mention that Zygarde’s other forms are a canine and a humanoid creature — not really what you think of when you picture a “dragon.” And don’t get me wrong, I usually enjoy Pokémon’s liberal interpretations of what can be called a dragon, but in this case, it feels like the reasoning may have simply been Game Freak’s chronic compulsion to make the third version Legendary a Dragon-type Pokémon.
 
My hot take: Thematically Yveltal should have been Poison, whether Flying or Dark was kept as its secondary typing. Dark is a typing associated with malevolence and evil (especially given its Japanese Type name), but Xerneas and Yveltal are presented as two halves of a balance rather than dangerous opposing Titans (Groudon/Kyogre, Palkia/Dialga in conflict) or an act/react relationship (Rayquaza to the Weather Titans, Cresselia to Darkrai, Zacian/Zamazenta with Steel Typings to fight Eternatus). So Yveltal's place in the cycle isn't disruptive or evil in its own right (people fear death but many cultures consider it natural or have enigmatic perceptions) to suit the "Evil" type alone vs Poison at least taking a very literal perspective towards loss of life and vitality.

This would also make a lot more sense out of Zygarde's role as a Trio Master and Thousand Arrows: Poison is weak to Ground, but Flying normally puts it out of reach of such concerns, unless this move specifically ignores it to control it where others can't.

As a very tangential note, I think Zygarde should have been able to ignore Immunities on Pokemon it Aura Breaks. So Yveltal could be hit by Thousand Arrows (little relevance since you'd carry that for other Flyers anyway) and Xerneas could be hit by Dragon moves (preventing something like Outrage from becoming a set-up chance). Zygarde's methods of "countering" the duo seems so half-assed even conceptually (nevermind effectiveness for a moment), specifically for Xerneas: Yveltal loses its Flying Immunity against Thousand Arrows when Zygarde could already hit it neutrally with its Dragon moves; Xerneas has no such immunity to deal with and... is trapped by Thousand Waves while Zygarde is out (while Dragon moves can't hit it so the Ground stuff is what it interacts with). You're trapping the Pokemon already immune to half your attacks and that doesn't like switching because its schtick is a big Set-up move.

Like the Xerneas half of this interaction is where I call nonsense on the supposed dynamic: The TRIO MASTER role should have been Fairy here. Life comes from the Earth (Bounty and Harvest like Landorus embodied last gen) and ends with Death and Scavenger birds (Vultures and Corvids etc). Fairy would beat a Dragon/Ground life and Dark/Flying death mon while embodying the Magic/Supernatural elements that maintain that balance.
 
Yung Dramps said:
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Wait a minute, I love Mega Evolution
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With Legends Z-A on the way I thought I'd make a new tier list and wow actually most of these guys are baller once I set aside my (still justified tbh) griping about their removal and really think clearly about their design. First USUM, then liking Lopunny, now this. Wonder what overly dour and miserable old take of mine I will disavow next
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Wanted to answer this post for a while, but didn,t have time. I liked Megaevolution a lot as a concept, but it was very poorly executed for 2 reasons:
1. A lot of already good Pokemon got Megas, see Garchomp, Tyranitar, Scizor, Lati@s, etc.
2. Unova has only 1 Mega and Kalos too (and its a legendary to add insult to the injury).

Therefore, I decided to imagine what I would have done in terms of choice for Pokemon that got Megas. 48 slots make for a lot of creativity in terms of what can and cannot get a Mega. So, lets begin.

1. Venusaur. Type: Grass-Poison. Ability: Thick Fat. Yes, they got this one right. 3 Kanto starters, fan favorites, but not too succesfull competitively, so its fair for them to get a Mega. And they designed them well, this one stays as it was.
2. Charizard-Y . Type: Fire-Flying. Ability: Drought. This one stays the same, except in the name. The terrible injustice ends, Charizard should have gotten only 1 Mega. Despite being a more common typing than Fire-Dragon, I think Charizard should have never become a Dragon, staying as a meme and watching things like Ampharos and Exeggutor getting the Dragon typing. It also has quite a badass design in the Y form, so I like it more than X.
3. Charizard-X. Druddigon. Type: Dragon-Rock. Ability: Bulletproof. The most forgotten out of the Unova Dragons should get some love. With Bulletproof, Druddigon easily switches into Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Aura Sphere and Gyro Ball, among other moves. The Rock typing comes from the Pokedex descriptions that mention Druddigon not being able to move when its temperature drops and its face being harder than a Rock.
4. Blastoise. Type: Water-Steel Ability: Mega Launcher. Mostly the same, but with a better typing that the cannons provide. Flash Cannon is not boosted by Mega Launcher, but still makes for a decent STAB vs fairies.
5. Beedrill. Type: Bug-Poison. Ability: Adaptability. This was one of the best choices they could have done for a Mega, base Beedrill is atrocious and they made a very cool U-Turning glass cannon. Stays the same.
6. Pidgeot. Type: Normal-Flying. Ability: No Guard. Stays the same too, another cool Mega.
7. Alakazam. Alakazam was already good Pokemon with Magic Guard, has been OU or BL in 4 Gens out of 5, even was BL without Mega in Gen 6. No need for Mega at all. So, instead of Alakazam, the new Mega should be...
Dedenne. Type: Electric-Fairy. Ability: Transistor. Starting from Gen 7, they put some effort in making pikaclones, Togedemaru, Morpeko and Pawmot are all competent fighters and have seen some use either in Singles or in VGC. Dedenne arrived too early unfortunately. So, in the perfect world I am designing, Dedenne would have gotten a Mega evolution and also a broken ability from Gen 8. Being able to run both Hidden Power and Grass Knot, Ground types wouldn,t be safe from Dedenne, though obviously its Special Attack and Speed wouldn,t be as high as Regieleki has. Dedenne has another problem, it didn,t get a Special Fairy STAB until Gen 8, so the Mega Evolution wouldn,t break it, just prevent it from being completely unusable.
8. Slowbro. Another Mon that was already good with Regenerator, no need for Mega. What is worse, Slowbro got a Mega, but Slowking never did. Would have been better none of them getting Mega. So, I guess you want a Water type Mega to replace Bro. Then, I present...
Swanna. Type: Water-Flying. Ability: Drizzle. A forgotten Unova Pokemon. Every weather has been covered by Megas except Rain, so what better than a Pokemon that gets STAB Surf and Hurricane? Swanna was never good, now it has a purpose.
9. Gengar. Another Mon that has been OU in every Generation, including Gen 6. Completely a wrong choice for a Mega and also was one of the most broken ones. I will use this opportunity to solve another injustice.
Froslass. Type: Ice-Ghost. Ability: Tinted Lens. Glalie has a Mega, why Froslass doesn,t? No need to change typing, but I decided to give a very strong ability. Ice is a type that is very weak defensively, so to compensate that, this Froslass would be very hard to switch into, since it would hit almost everything neutrally with Tinted Lens.
10. Kangaskhan. Type: Normal. Ability: Parental Bond. Yes, this was broken. Yes, this dominated VGC too. But I am fine with it. The concept of the baby participating in battle is cool, so it can stay the way it is.
11. Pinsir. Type: Bug-Flying. Ability: Aerilate. This too can stay the way it was. A very good choice for a Mega, one of the few ones that Pokedex says is not suffering for being a Mega but instead enjoying it.
12. Gyarados. Gyarados is a cool Mega I personally like. I could have maintained it, with the same typing if Sharpedo wasn,t invented the very same Gen or if Gyarados wasn,t already a good Pokemon without Mega. I could stand one of these, but not both. Now, the problem with Gyarados is that its used by Team Flare boss Lysandre, so the Mega that substitutes it also should be a Mon present on its team. The obvious choice would be Pyroar, but that Mon has notable gender difference. Therefore...
Honchkrow. Type: Dark-Flying. Ability: Magic Guard. Did you know that on top of good offensive Stats, Honchkrow has 100 base HP? So, all we need to make this Pokemon good is some Defense increase and the ability to avoid Rocks damage, not even that much increase of offensive Stats or Speed. With Magic Guard, Honchkrow is not bothered by Rocks or Status, while at the same time being able to use Brave Bird without recoil. In VGC context (which is the main factor by which most Mons are currently designed), Honchkrow could have used its pre-Mega Insomnia to beat Smeargle, after which it could wreck havoc with a stronger form.
13. Aerodactyl: Type: Rock-Flying. Ability: Tough Claws. A decent Mon even without Mega, but this can stay to showcase the Tough Claws ability.
14. Mewtwo-Y. Type: Psychic. Ability: Insomnia. I am fine with a broken legendary completely unrelated to the XY Main story having a Mega, but not 2 of them. Mewtwo-Y form is more distinguishable from base Mewtwo than X. Also, I removed a pure Psychic Alakazam, while for now 3 Psychic-Fight Megas are present, so one less with this change.
15. Mewtwo-X. Gogoat. Type: Grass-Ground. Ability: Sand Force. Spoiler: I am removing Mega Garchomp, so this would be the Sand Force Mega. Base Gogoat has decent Stats and even a great movepool, but unfortunately the Stats are not high enough to distinguish it from the 21219281212121 pure Grass types. Mega Gogoat would be a strong and bulky physical attacker that uses Sand to its advantage. Gogoat is the ace of a Kalos Gym leader and at the release was also a fan favorite (which didn,t last long enough unfortunately), so it would have been a great choice for a Mega.
16. Ampharos. Type: Electric-Dragon. Ability: Regenerator. Cool choice for a Mega, but this guy didn,t abuse its ability without some Baton Pass boosts. So, now it has Regenerator to be a solid pivot that also hits hard.
17. Steelix. Type: Ground-Steel. Ability: Iron Barbs. Another cool Mega that never got to abuse well its ability. Iron Barbs would make Steelix much more annoying, especially if we consider its Defense.
18. Scizor. Competitively, this was one of my favorite Megas to use, it has a great typing, solid bulk, wide movepool and good offensive power that allowed it to be a reliable win condition. But lets be honest, Scizor was a great Mon before Megas were a thing, Scizor was viable while Megas were a thing (even without Megas, it was OU in Gen 6 and usable in Gen 7 too, also quite common in VGC 2014) and Scizor still is a good Mon after Megas are no longer a thing. Scizor never needed a Mega.
Crustle. Type: Bug-Rock. Ability: Mold Breaker. A cool Bug, one of my favorites since Pokemon Unite got released. It had some anime protagonism too. Since I removed Gyarados and changed Ampharos's ability, there was no Mold Breaker Mega now. This one is a good choice, since a Pokedex entry says it can crack Rhyperior's carapace. With Mold Breaker, Crustle can hit Levitate Pokemon with EQ and also break through Unaware Mons after it uses Shell Smash. With a 100 Stats increase,this would have been one of the best Megas.
19. Heracross. Type: Bug-Fight. Ability: Skill Link. One of the ugliest Megas that exist, but the concept of its nose growing and it having Skill Link is cool, so it stays the way it was.
20. Houndoom. Type: Fire-Dark. Ability: Solar Power. Nothing to change here either.
21. Tyranitar. Incredibily lazy Mega, even with the same ability that base form has. One of the historically most succesfull Pokemon doesn,t need Mega at all.
Krookodile. Type: Ground-Dark. Ability: Sand Stream. Pokedex says it uses Flygon's Sand to hide and hunt preys, it then shares with Gon. Well, with Mega it now doesn,t need Flygon and can hunt alone.
22. Sceptile. Type: Grass-Dragon. Ability: Lightning Rod. This has to stay, since its a Hoen starter.
23. Blaziken. Type: Fire-Fight. Ability: Moxie. This too has to stay. However, I like its original ability more than Speed Boost, which it already has Pre-Mega. It was broken even without Mega, so it doesn,t matter to make it even stronger.
24. Swampert. Type: Water-Groung. Ability: Swift Swim. Nothing to change here, this was a hit, the best Swift Swimmer that ever existed, with a cool sprite.
25. Gardevoir. Type: Psychic-Fairy. Ability: Pixilate. Another cool Mega, competent final boss of XY.
26. Sableye. Type: Dark-Ghost. Ability: Magic Bounce. Nothing to change here either.
27. Mawile. Type: Steel-Fairy. Ability: Huge Power. One of the best Megas ever invented and on a Pokemon that absolutely deserved it.
28. Aggron. Type: Steel. Ability: Filter. Only Mega that loses typing upon Mega evolving... and benefits a lot from it. Nothing to change, great choice and very well designed.
29. Medicham. This Pokemon was bad enough to qualify for a Mega, but I just don,t like it, Gallade is way better representing that typing. The fact that it has the same ability pre and post mega makes it even worse. On top of that, its ugly.
Pangoro. Type: Fight-Dark. Ability: Sap Sipper. Always liked the angry panda and since its a panda, it has to eat grass. With Sap Sipper, every Grass type that doesn,t rely on coverage (see: Serperior) becomes a lot worse. In VGC context, Mega Pangoro could beat Aegislash, Mega Kangaskhan and Amoonguss at the same time, among others.
30. Manectric. Type: Electric. Ability: Intimidate. Base Manectric is boring, Mega still is, but there isn,t much you can do with this Mon. Megaevolution did improve it enough, so it can stay the way it is.
31. Sharpedo. Type: Water-Dark. Ability: Strong Jaw. For story purposes this one was needed and it was well done.
32. Camerupt. Type: Fire-Ground. Ability: Sheer Force. Same thing here, in general Hoenn Megas have been very well done, with a few notable exceptions.
33. Altaria. Type: Dragon-Fairy. Ability: Fur Coat. I am fine with Altaria having Pixilate, but since Gardevoir already has it, this dragon can now be the supreme wall.
34. Banette. Type: Ghost. Ability: Prankster. Could give the Fairy typing here, but probably not enough justification for that. It stays the way it was then.
35. Absol. Type: Dark-Fairy. Ability: Dazzling. This one already learns Fairy moves and with that sprite it can be seen as Fairy. The new typing allows Absol to switch into Lati@s for free. As for the ability, brought from Gen 7, its because it anticipates disasters. It could have been Anticipation or Forewarn, but those are not very good abilities. With an immunity to priority, Absol could stop several dangerous sweepers such as Azumarill, Scizor or even Talonflame.
36. Glalie. Type: Ice. Ability: Refrigerate. Everyone likes Ice Explosions.
37. Salamence. Several things make this a bad choice for a Mega. 1. Its a pseudo that has been very succesful in previous Gens. 2. It shares typing with Rayquaza. 3. It shares abilityy with Pinsir. 4. Its incredibly broken. Now, this Pokemon is used by Zinnia... who also has a Altaria, so its fine, we can replace it with whatever we want.
Leavanny. Type: Bug-Grass. Ability: Sharpness. One of the worst typing ever known, but this Pokemon at least has anime protagonism going for it. It could have been a great opportunity to introduce Sharpness 3 generations earlier. (Honestly, why doesn,t Leavanny get Sharpness in Gen 9?)
38. Metagross. Type: Steel-Psychic. Ability: Trace. This Mega is needed due to Steven having it, but Tough Claws (which Aerodactyl has) can be replaced with Trace, since Mega Alakazam doesn,t exist in this timeline. After all, Metagross is a computer that analyzes things, Trace fits very well on it.
39. Latias. This and Latios are the absolute worst and laziest Megas ever invented. Same abilities, extremely ugly design and the only excuse is that you can fly on it over Hoenn, but that could have been done with base Latias and Latios anyway. This should have never been invented
Beheeyem. Type: Psychic-Electric. Ability: Levitate. Has UFO lore, so can have Levitate. Psychic-Steel is another option for typing, but since Metagross already has it, Electric also fits.
40. Latios. Noivern. Type: Dragon-Dark. Ability: Contrary. The Dark type comes from this Mon liking Dark places. Contrary is harder to justify, but according the Pokedex, this Pokemon is hot-blooded despite being a dragon (aka reptile, aka cold blooded creatures). Such contradiction is enough for me. Despite being fast and Draco Meteor rising Special Attack, its not as broken as expected, since Fairies are a thing.
41. Rayquaza. Type: Dragon-Flying. Ability: Delta Stream. For story purposes, this guy has to stay the way it is.
42. Lopunny. Type: Normal-Fight. Ability: Scrappy. Great Sinnoh choice for a Mega, nothing to say here.
43. Garchomp. I don,t think competitively Mega Garchomp is a downgrade from regular one. After all, it has more bulk and more power, the 10 Speed drop matters, but not that much. I used Mega Garchomp a lot and is a very decent Mega. That being said, there was 0 need for it, since base Garchomp was already good.
Stunfisk. Type: Electric-Ground. Ability: Arena Trap. Fuck it, you never expected Stunfisk to be broken, right? Well, in VGC it probably isn,t but such bulk with Arena Trap ability surely is too much in singles. This Pokemon needs some love (and anime provided it).
44. Lucario. I hate Lucario. Thats enough justification for it not having a Mega, but since the one invented is broken, we have every single right to replace it. Of course, Korinna having some story in XY makes our cause harder, but we can choose another one of her Mons.
Hawlucha. Type: Fight-Flying. Ability: Defiant. Basically, Zapdos-Galar before it existed.
45. Abomasnow. Type: Grass-Ice. Ability: Snow Warning. Not a fan of Megas that have the same ability as base form, but this is the one exception. Mega Abomasnow is not a Pokemon most people can use efficiently, but nonetheless its a very good team player that can get wins in the highest level competitions. It also has a cool sprite.
46. Gallade. Type: Psychic-Fight. Ability: Inner Focus. Wally got blessed with a very cool looking Mega, nothing to change here. I removed Medicham and Mewtwo-X so that this guy could shine.
47. Audino. Type: Normal-Fairy. Ability: Aroma Veil. The new ability still helps partners in Doubles, but now is also usable in Single battles.
48. Diancie. Type: Rock-Fairy. Ability: Clear Body. Base Diancie ability: Magic Bounce. It makes so much more sense to switch abilities between forms. Now base Diancie can use its enormous bulk to switch into Status moves or hazards, while Mega Diancie is not affected by opposing Moonblast drops, Intimidate or Sticky Web.


So, thats it, this is how I would have choosen the Megas in Gen 6. As a bonus, I would have put 8 new Megas in SM (right now there are 48 Megas for 6 Gens, so the proportion with 8 more would stay the same).

49. Shiinotic. Type: Grass-Fairy. Ability: Triage. The ability helps Giga Drain and Strength Sap. Shiinotic is already a decent Pokemon, it would have liked more HP, but 100 increase in every other Stat (except Attack) would still help it.
50. Palossand. Type: Ground-Ghost. Ability: Storm Drain. In my opinion, Water Compaction should give immunity to Water, so this is the next best thing. With 4 immunities, great bulk and recovery, this has everything to succeed.
51. Oranguru. Type: Normal-Psychic. Ability: Analytic. Another slow Alolan Pokemon, this one can abuse being slow.
52. Passimian. Type: Fight-Grass. Ability: Technician. This would need to learn Bullet Seed, but the idea is to have a fast Breloom without Spore that can use Technician Bullet Seed, Beat Up, some Fight STAB and U-Turn.
53. Golisopod. Type: Bug-Water. Ability: Defeatist. A Mega with a bad ability. The trick is that unlike Archeops, Golisopod has great bulk and decent typing, so it can use Restalk or Leech Life to get out of Defeatist range.
54. Pachirisu. Type: Electric-Normal. Ability: Stamina. A tribute to Sejun Park. Far from the best Mega, but with Stamina and Slack Off (which I would give Pachirisu too), it should stick around a lot.
55. Delibird. Type: Ice-Flying. Ability: Wonder Guard. A true test for skill. You can,t run Mega Delibird + Mega Sableye, so it will be taking damage from Stealth Rock if you can,t remove them. It still gets 4 common weaknesses and pre-mega has terrible Stats, so it would depend on teammates in order to be broken instead of a liability.
56. Arbok. Type: Poison-Dark. Ability: Simple. Lets be honest, if new Megas appeared in SM, at least one would be from Kanto. Arbok is one of the best choices for that and with Simple, Coil and the new Dark typing, it would have been great.


Lets see in legends ZA how many of the new Megas I got right (not the typing and ability, but the species at least).
 
pika pal said:
My hot take: Thematically Yveltal should have been Poison, whether Flying or Dark was kept as its secondary typing. Dark is a typing associated with malevolence and evil (especially given its Japanese Type name), but Xerneas and Yveltal are presented as two halves of a balance rather than dangerous opposing Titans (Groudon/Kyogre, Palkia/Dialga in conflict) or an act/react relationship (Rayquaza to the Weather Titans, Cresselia to Darkrai, Zacian/Zamazenta with Steel Typings to fight Eternatus). So Yveltal's place in the cycle isn't disruptive or evil in its own right (people fear death but many cultures consider it natural or have enigmatic perceptions) to suit the "Evil" type alone vs Poison at least taking a very literal perspective towards loss of life and vitality.
Click to expand...

Interesting suggestion, considering how Umbreon was originally designed to be Poison before becoming the new Dark type. Those two types have always been pretty connected, I believe the TCG uses the Dark symbol to include both typings. I guess Poison could also be interpreted as a sort of "evil" type not only bc the 'evil teams' seems to use them a lot of but bc the idea of slowly draining away the opponent's health is a more painful tactic to defeat the opponent.
 
Hugin said:
It's especially weird because it's such an odd combo of typings. Dark/Flying, Fairy, and Dragon/Ground? Zygarde loses to both members of the trio based purely on typing, and the signature moves make it worse. And Xerneas makes Yveltal look like a joke if they face off. Combined with Zygarde having a lower BST than the other two(and Zygarde's BSTs being odd overall), it really makes me wonder what they were actually trying to accomplish with this trio.
Click to expand...
I actually have always loved this. It was a good way to subvert expectations while being also crystal clear Zygarde was supposed to have something else up its sleeve to be able to counter the other two. It needs a way to overcome Xerneas' fairy power and Yveltal's flying abilities, and its 50% BST was pitiful even compared to the incomplete Kyurem.

That being said, I do see issues with it. Not only because of the mentioned potential issues of Yveltal being inhetently evil when it shouldn't as a personification of death, but because I have always been confused about how Zygarde actually keeps balance. In light if some of the leaks I feel it's worth discussing, specially because I thought it could be fixed in ZA by giving the other two new forms...well, part of it at least.

If by "balance" of the ecosystem we understand it as being between life and death...why don't Xerneas and Yveltal do it just by existing? What is Zygarde supposed to do with its 100% form? Stop one or the other? Why don't the other two already balance things by virtue of existing? If they are the manifestations of life and death and are on equal level, there shouldn't be a problem with balance. If they happen to fight seems like a whole different issue more in line with the likes od Groudon and Kyogre with Rayquaza, but that doesn't seem like their relationship. Why would say Xerneas, as a manifestation of life itself, go on a frenzy and mess up the ecosystem? And how can Zygarde fix it? Killing things? If Yveltal is the one doing the bad stuff, can Zygarde revive anything at all to later fix the damage?

It would have made way more sense if it had a form to stand up against Xerneas, and other for Yveltal, or if these two had some type of potentially dangerous or unnatural overdrive forms (hello Megaevolution which literally comes from them) that causes way too much creation of life or too much death. As it stands now, Zygarde just has an objectively superior form to handle any type of balance threat, that it just doesn't always use. They are my favourite trio, but I struggle to see a reason for Zygarde's existence when the other two have literal natural life cycles where they turn inaminate, because it doesn't really seem like it is naturally equiped to deal with them both. I feel like life and death are such powerful concepts even for Pokemon, that if you want to create something that balances them both it should also be more of a specific concept rather than "big mecha".

To sum things up: Xerneas wakes up. Creates ton of life and turns into a tree. Yveltal wakes up. Kills lots of things and turns into a cocoon. Where...is the balance problem? Opposite order works too. They...kind of do an equivalent exchange. Zygarde is not needed. Or am I missing something? And if it really is needed...why are its solutions to both too much life and too much death the same form?
 
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pokemon4eva said:
Interesting suggestion, considering how Umbreon was originally designed to be Poison before becoming the new Dark type. Those two types have always been pretty connected, I believe the TCG uses the Dark symbol to include both typings. I guess Poison could also be interpreted as a sort of "evil" type not only bc the 'evil teams' seems to use them a lot of but bc the idea of slowly draining away the opponent's health is a more painful tactic to defeat the opponent.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Poison type in the TCG has been Grass, Psychic and now Darkness. It's the type they move around the most (and I really think it should have stayed in Psychic, Ghost is what should have moved to Darkness)
 
DrrT said:
I actually have always loved this. It was a good way to subvert expectations while being also crystal clear Zygarde was supposed to have something else up its sleeve to be able to counter the other two. It needs a way to overcome Xerneas' fairy power and Yveltal's flying abilities, and its 50% BST was pitiful even compared to the incomplete Kyurem.
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Even then, Zygarde-Complete doesn't have Aura Break and also doesn't transform until it's been hit, so it still gets nuked by Xerneas even pre-Geomancy.

Thousand Arrows is at least useful against Yveltal, though Oblivion Wing healing makes even the Zygarde-Complete matchup iffy.

Someone above mentioned that Zygarde would have made sense if it's ability turned it into an Inverse Battle, and I can 100% see that. As-is, Aura Break is too minor an effect to even remotely counter the big mons.
DrrT said:
That being said, I do see issues with it. Not only because of the mentioned potential issues of Yveltal being inhetently evil when it shouldn't as a personification of death, but because I have always been confused about how Zygarde actually keeps balance. In light if some of the leaks I feel it's worth discussing, specially because I thought it could be fixed in ZA by giving the other two new forms...well, part of it at least.

If by "balance" of the ecosystem we understand it as being between life and death...why don't Xerneas and Yveltal do it just by existing? What is Zygarde supposed to do with its 100% form? Stop one or the other? Why don't the other two already balance things by virtue of existing? If they are the manifestations of life and death and are on equal level, there shouldn't be a problem with balance. If they happen to fight seems like a whole different issue more in line with the likes od Groudon and Kyogre with Rayquaza, but that doesn't seem like their relationship. Why would say Xerneas, as a manifestation of life itself, go on a frenzy and mess up the ecosystem? And how can Zygarde fix it? Killing things? If Yveltal is the one doing the bad stuff, can Zygarde revive anything at all to later fix the damage?

It would have made way more sense if it had a form to stand up against Xerneas, and other for Yveltal, or if these two had some type of potentially dangerous or unnatural overdrive forms (hello Megaevolution which literally comes from them) that causes way too much creation of life or too much death. As it stands now, Zygarde just has an objectively superior form to handle any type of balance threat, that it just doesn't always use. They are my favourite trio, but I struggle to see a reason for Zygarde's existence when the other two have literal natural life cycles where they turn inaminate, because it doesn't really seem like it is naturally equiped to deal with them both. I feel like life and death are such powerful concepts even for Pokemon, that if you want to create something that balances them both it should also be more of a specific concept rather than "big mecha".

To sum things up: Xerneas wakes up. Creates ton of life and turns into a tree. Yveltal wakes up. Kills lots of things and turns into a cocoon. Where...is the balance problem? Opposite order works too. They...kind of do an equivalent exchange. Zygarde is not needed. Or am I missing something? And if it really is needed...why are its solutions to both too much life and too much death the same form?
Click to expand...
Xerneas being a deer makes sense for life screwing up the environment(though I do NOT think they thought it through this much). It's a common problem where people wipe out the wolves or other predators in an area, deer or similar herbivores experience a population boom, overeat the plants, and start dying in large numbers due to disease and famine. Reintroducing the predators, or authorizing significant human-led hunting, is actually necessary to keep the environment in check.
 
A corollary to my "XY's story is completely unsalvageable without major rewrites far beyond what any remake or third version has ever attempted" take is that there's a very good chance Zygarde will have actually been better off in the long run. From what the Z documents let us gleam it basically would've ended up being the second rethread of Emerald Rayquaza, grafted on at the climax to BTFO Lysandre even harder

My expectations for Z-A's story aren't sky-high but I think having a brand new narrative built around Zygarde from the ground up should yield some pretty good results given how well the last couple of games have handled their Legendary rosters

Getting to be in CHADlola also helps
 
It would be super funny if ZA doesn't bring back Megas. And I'd be 100% fine with that
:psysly:

Though we know they're returning

Though it does beg question if ZA is LA styled for gameplay, or not. No, we will NOT look at the leaks, GF can easily do a 180 for stuff with how early it is. If it is like LA, the mechanics will differ heavily. It wouldn't even be the first time (See LGPE forgoing held items), though LA's more none standard fighting style might be more aggressive to changes

I can see base stat nerfs happening, which...would be VERY funny given Gen 8/9 powercreep
 
Kin+ak (✧∇✧) said:
Nerfing gresselia is the worst thing Pokémon has done intheir entire existence. Cress was hyper fine with 130&120 spdef&def in Gen8, and given the addtiton of Lunar blessing from Legends arceus, the probable reason of its nerf, didn't make it top tier at all it'd be great if they reversednthe nerf.
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Aegislash would probably be fine having it's stat nerf undone too, give how they also nerfed King's Shield.
 
Kin+ak (✧∇✧) said:
Nerfing gresselia is the worst thing Pokémon has done intheir entire existence. Cress was hyper fine with 130&120 spdef&def in Gen8, and given the addtiton of Lunar blessing from Legends arceus, the probable reason of its nerf, didn't make it top tier at all it'd be great if they reversednthe nerf.
Click to expand...

Nerfing Dark Void is the worst thing.
 
I genuinely consider the Dark Void nerfs to be Top 5 Most idiotic/incompetent Gamefreak decisions for Gameplay. The only place they give a crap about it is VGC on Smeargle, which was already covered by the "Darkrai Only" clause, so every other nerf to the move did nothing besides affect a Mythical Pokemon that has never been legal in a format Gamefreak (pretends it) cares about anyway.

What results is they broke the toy Smeargle was hogging and then gave it back to Darkrai who it was borrowed from after they took a hammer to it. The result is a Signature move that is probably the WORST in its category vs more distributed moves rather than the inverse they clearly go for with other comparables (Pyro Ball > Flare Blitz objectively, for a recent example)
 
pika pal said:
I genuinely consider the Dark Void nerfs to be Top 5 Most idiotic/incompetent Gamefreak decisions for Gameplay. The only place they give a crap about it is VGC on Smeargle, which was already covered by the "Darkrai Only" clause, so every other nerf to the move did nothing besides affect a Mythical Pokemon that has never been legal in a format Gamefreak (pretends it) cares about anyway.

What results is they broke the toy Smeargle was hogging and then gave it back to Darkrai who it was borrowed from after they took a hammer to it. The result is a Signature move that is probably the WORST in its category vs more distributed moves rather than the inverse they clearly go for with other comparables (Pyro Ball > Flare Blitz objectively, for a recent example)
Click to expand...

As Darkrai is one of my faves it absolutely disgusts me.
 
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