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OU DPP OU Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Excal
- Start date
If getting rid of Machamp won't solve the paraspam issue in one fell stroke, perhaps the tier should look into removing Thunder Wave. The main difference from future generations where it's not as broken (but still very good) is that it can paralyze electric types, limiting counterplay quite a bit. Pokemon like Starmie getting Thunder Wave compounds with this, forcing teams without the blobs to take paralysis on a Pokemon that it cripples. Thunder Wave isn't really a one Pokemon issue either, it's a greater issue with how the move functions in the generation.
Curious, if machamp for some reason doesnt get banned, how long owuld it take till rachi has any form of action taken against it?
Or what next? Assuming action may have to come after rachi is banned. Since this is an old gen im curious how fast action may happen
Or what next? Assuming action may have to come after rachi is banned. Since this is an old gen im curious how fast action may happen
I think the next time we can expect any action in this tier is post-SPL. I don’t have the insider knowledge but it makes sense they don’t want to disturb the meta too much during one of their biggest tournaments. It isn’t an urgent matter, maybe if it were currgen but it’s safer not to risk messing with the tier now instead of doing it in the off-season where higher level play has less stakes. Based on survey results, I’d probably say Jirachi is next to be suspected. And a few others believe Thunder Wave should be restricted like Freeze Clause and Sleep Clause. Maybe that’s another option they will explore.
I think what makes Jirachi's situation more complex than Machamp is that Machamp was basically only good for No Guard Dynamic Punch, whereas Jirachi is a staple on so many teams because of its versatility. Sets that take advantage of Serene Grace Iron Head and Body Slam are the most common, but Jirachi can also run special sets and wish sets. It can fill all sorts of different niches needed in a team. Jirachi is probably next up on the chopping block to get suspected, and it will be interesting to see if it gets to stay.
with regards to the "what's next on the chopping block" and "what can we change after spl" remember that it's not a certain that anything changes, actually. there might
maybe be support for jira or thunder wave but there's a large amount of people who are pretty happy with DPP as it is.
maybe be support for jira or thunder wave but there's a large amount of people who are pretty happy with DPP as it is.
This is true. DPP is a very old metagame, so changes made to it happen pretty infrequently. The format has had a long time to settle in and get rid of anything that would warrant a ban. I personally think if they were to do another suspect test, it’d be Jirachi because of Serene Grace + Iron Head/Body Press. However, I’ve used Jirachi on a number of my teams in the past to fill many different roles, and the same goes for pretty much anyone who’s made a DPP team. Jirachi is such a staple mon that it can comfortably fit onto almost any archetype. I would say it’s pretty far from broken or meta-ruining. Jirachi just a really good Pokemon, so I doubt a hypothetical suspect test would go anywhere. The Machamp ban has certainly turned some eyes onto the DPP meta, and it will be interesting to see if that affects the frequency of suspect tests.
i personally think, as a newer player, Jirachi does warrant a ban, because there are so many freaking threats in the meta that aren't rachi so the fact that my skarmory can get cheesed just like that, the i i get 5-0ed by a random Gyrados or something, makes Rachi feel unhealthy to me at least
Hey everyone.
I'd like to conduct some independant research on my own to help with my own theories surrounding the Gen 4 meta. I've started a survey a bit more in-depth than the survey given out at the end of SPL, but without trying to step on the toes of that survey. I would like anyone who sees this post to please fill out the survey to your best ability.
- - JoshSketch's Gen 4 OU Survey - -
I'd like to conduct some independant research on my own to help with my own theories surrounding the Gen 4 meta. I've started a survey a bit more in-depth than the survey given out at the end of SPL, but without trying to step on the toes of that survey. I would like anyone who sees this post to please fill out the survey to your best ability.
- - JoshSketch's Gen 4 OU Survey - -
Is there a place in the meta for "slow" scarf sets?
For example, Infernape can run 108 speed EVs to outrun everything up to Heatran and go 252+ Atk/148 SpA (or whatever mix is needed - this is just an example). Obviously you miss out on scarf base 100s in this case, but the ability to go +attack nature and still outspeed everything unboosted seems like it could be useful on some setups.
If you give up on outspeeding +1s and opposing scarves, you can drop the EVs way down. Zapdos can run 24 speed EVs and outspeed Starmie and below.
Some potential users of mixed slow scarf:
Are these slower spreads ever used in practice? Has anyone tried and/or got an informed opinion on this style of spread?
For example, Infernape can run 108 speed EVs to outrun everything up to Heatran and go 252+ Atk/148 SpA (or whatever mix is needed - this is just an example). Obviously you miss out on scarf base 100s in this case, but the ability to go +attack nature and still outspeed everything unboosted seems like it could be useful on some setups.
If you give up on outspeeding +1s and opposing scarves, you can drop the EVs way down. Zapdos can run 24 speed EVs and outspeed Starmie and below.
Some potential users of mixed slow scarf:
- Infernape - appreciates extra damage on special moves / not dying to flare blitz
- Blaziken - slower speed, but higher base attacks could make it a useful slow scarf (if you don't mind losing u-turn, close combat...)
- Azelf - is powering up explosion useful?
- Zapdos - 252+ thunderbolts with a bit extra bulk (probably just strictly worse than using specs)
- Staraptor - official analysis says 56HP/252+Atk/200Spe - could go all the way down to 152HP/104Spe if you only need to outspeed adamant gyara
Electivire (lol)
Are these slower spreads ever used in practice? Has anyone tried and/or got an informed opinion on this style of spread?
jirachi and uxie can run scarf sets slow as 263 speed because they want to trick lock something turn 1
probably togekiss can do something similar
-Azelf typically caps at 308 Spd to Trick Lock something in order to lock Stealth Rock leads into an undesirable spot, Aero for instance hates Choice Scarf.
-I’ve seen Scarf Ape used, not necessarily the best since Ape wants Anti-DD options such as Rotom, Shuca Meta, or Flygon.
-Not a fan of Scarf Zap bc Rocks, Specs is better to fry Sp Def Heatran or Tyranitar with your Thunderbolt (Thunder was used with T-bolt, but that was against Machamp)
-Scarf Gallade is kinda interesting, Lady Bug used it against BKC during the SPL, worth a try so long as you have solid answers to Clef teams
Thanks (and to Blåhaj Blast)!
Trick-lock is a nice example. What does Gallade use the extra speed EVs for if running a slow scarf? Just +Atk and better able to tank special attacks?
People do use slow scarf sets. You may not see players talk about it because as soon you become known to drop speed you may face players who will try to go for speed ties against you. I know examples of players dropping speed to 264 / 288 / 300 / 330 speed to gain an additionnal offensive pivot during the early/mid game. Pokemon like Jirachi, Rotom and Latias appreciate having more bulk, as they often have to stomach 1 or 2 hits for their team in order to grab momentum back. You could also drop speed on Scarf Heatran to 264, although it's a bit riskier because Scarf Heatran duels occasionnaly happen.
To give you a few examples for Jirachi:
TrickLead (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 144 SpD / 112 Spe
Careful Nature
- Trick
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Iron Head
Scarf 4 Attacks (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 104 HP / 248 Atk / 8 SpD / 148 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch
Scarf Fire Punch Off (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Trick
- U-turn
" Many men wish death upon me,
Blood in my eye, dog, and I can't see.
I'm tryin' to be what I'm destined to be.
And n***** tryin' to take my life away "
Blood in my eye, dog, and I can't see.
I'm tryin' to be what I'm destined to be.
And n***** tryin' to take my life away "
Hello DPP comrades ! To celebrate my unban let me give you some teams I built / edited while I was in jail. Feel free to do w/e with them ( a lot of sets / spreads are flexible esp in the second teamdump ).
Also I'm still active on Youtube ( good occasion to learn French xD ^^ ) so go check my channel by clicking on the Tigers logo in my signature.
BONUS DECEMBER 2024 HEATDUMP
SEPT 2025 TEAMDUMP
I suggest you to try the EBelt Mamo team, the SoS Week 7 edit team or the SoftGon team.
Also, let me explain some sets :
Metagross @ Lum Berry / Leftovers / Occa Berry
EVs: 136 HP / 120 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake / Meteor Mash
- Explosion
Jolly means you outspeed ALL DDers except Kingdra ( which is weak ), defensive mons like Cele / Zap etc and offensive powerhouses like MixNite which comes clutch as f. Rise Zone can't trap you btw. 120 in Atk to 2HKO fast defensive Starmie.
------------------------------------
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
- Lava Plume
- Dark Pulse
- Stealth Rock / Will-O-Wisp
- Explosion
A bit forgotten cause hitting both Mie and Lati means that they can't deal with you anymore then you can have free SR / free Lava Plume burn on w/e just depends on the filler. Clef wants to come in ? Ok boom on it then reveal for ex an Off Mie and game is free win ! We prefer a bulky Tran with this set to be sure Surf / HPump doesn't do too much.
------------------------------------
Flygon @ Soft Sand
Ability: Levitate
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- U-turn
- Toxic
Imagine a ZapCeleMie ( or just ZapMie ) paraspam. Ok you have it ? Now gimme the answer to this Flygon set ? Oh you don't have an answer ^^ ?
Ok I agree maybe it's a very particular set that is very hard to fit but it's still a Flygon, you are still useful. Needs Rise Zone to not insta lose vs Skarm / Zong stall teams ( this set is also kinda good into it ).
------------------------------------
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Waterfall
- Thunder Wave
Nothing new but this set is becoming a staple because it is completly unbalanced and broken rn. It patches so many things on so many new teams. Imagine a Water type with TWave. Now Imagine a PHYSICAL Water type with TWave which means SpD Clef doesn't really like coming on you.
You absorb Spore, you spread para, you have Intimidate, you have longevity, you are a great answer to Fire types, Para spreaders ... I mean, to anything ( almost ) that doesn't have an Electric move. And if you pair it with Bold Psychic / Fire Mie or Donphan it's even better. Future is bright.
------------------------------------
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
- Stealth Rock
- Extrasensory
- Earthquake
- Explosion
Extra has 48 PP and hits SE Loom / Nape / Gar ( Wisp burn is now w/e ). Does also good damages to Phan / Glisc.
Boom allows you to trade 1v1 with Mie which means after free TSpikes for the rest of the game. It can also remove Clef and offensive menaces that want to setup on your face.
I will maybe release other teams in the future.
I would like to thank everyone who has helped me over the past nine months whether you are from the DPP community, my discord server, SDO, or elsewhere. These last months were like roller coasters ( IVL / IRL ) but I can finally see the light; this tunnel is close to an end.
I just hope that nothing else from my past resurfaces because I've grown up and I'm not that person anymore.
Atm building is really fun while playing is not; I will see in 2026 if I want to play.
But I'm glad to be back. Glad to be able to interact again with DPP community.
I just hope that nothing else from my past resurfaces because I've grown up and I'm not that person anymore.
Atm building is really fun while playing is not; I will see in 2026 if I want to play.
But I'm glad to be back. Glad to be able to interact again with DPP community.
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y'all should try choice band breloom. just run stabs only with mach punch and focus punch, since any resist is getting nuked anyways. Someone with a much better attention span and more motivation than me should try it so they can see how awesome it is and write much better details about it, but one interaction ive had several times is a standard stall team switching defensive latias in, taking about 50 from focus punch plush rocks, and being forced to either recover or attack as opposed to throw out a twave, witch gives and opportunity to play agressive with another strong breaker/a scarf trick mon. It in general does huge damage to everything on stall and the strong mach punch is good against offense as well, doing solid damage to neutral fast threats like flygon and jirachi etc. Obviously sacrificing the defensive integrity and longevity of it but its been solidly effective on the ladder so perhaps an option to consider.
gonna post a sample of teams that i have real commentary on that i built from dppl --> classic finals for myself / friends. i probably won't be playing/building dpp much over the next few months (at least until spl) so i have no problem posting the teams as they are.
DPPL and Invitational
HippoMag + ToxTect Meta
i built this at the end of spl going into dppl. a few people have brought this team in invitational/dppl/other side tours since then. the idea is pretty simple: toxtect meta is an incredible set that helps pressure opposing stall super well, especially when paired with hazard/sand/mag support. this is one of my favorite teams to use and imo it is incredibly solid. it runs into a few bad MUs (shed skarm becoming very popular definitely doesn't help it much) but overall it gets the job done consistently. notably i run an impish hippo here instead of sdef to deal with +2 lucario/ttar/other setup sweepers that sdef hippo gets rolled over by.
Nidoqueen + SubTran Stall
another one of my dppl favorites. a tad slow but it makes up for it by spreading status everywhere + abusing pokemon like wishclef/subtran that take away momentum. 5/6 pokemon on this team have protect, which makes it a nightmare for teams that rely either on choiced users to break, or teams that cannot withstand status. vs offenses / mie balances this team can be extremely effective if you set it up right as it completely avoids the pursuit trap shenanigans enabled by cbtar. this team is way worse off vs opposing defensive builds, and has a hard time beating skarm stall bc tran can't get past clefable effectively. this can be "fixed" by opting for a more offensive (sd?) loom > the current one, and by making lati trick + defensive, or by making tran magma/taunt trap. overall one of my favorite builds and if you are facing an inexperienced player this team will have a great MU.
GyaraPhan + SDSuitZor
i saw how deadly gyarados could be w/ a defensively based set and decided to give a gyaraphan build a try to avoid hazard stacking. the setup here is pretty intuitive: gyara/donphan/clef/lati create a super strong defensive backbone while still enabling a solid offensive front. the team needed a second steel to tank dracos/outrages and also wanted a pursuiter, so i put on a defensive sd zor w/ suit + lum berry to help trap things like wisptaunt gar which otherwise could become a serious issue. overall a really solid team; you can use occa/lefties on scizor or forego SD entirely and put u-turn on it to help avoid magnezone traps while enabling your own. the star of the team is gyarados, and this lead defensive dd set can be extremely deadly against leads that can't kill it (which is most things after intimidate).
TripleCB Offense
i knew i wanted to switch it up as dppl went on, so i created this offensive team based on a triplecb core of dnite/ape/zor. pretty simple, the team basically just feeds of each other until you can decisively win with one of the 3 cbers or sweep w/ agilmeta. i decided to drop a scarfer here bc triple cb priority is safe enough into most set up sweepers, and because shuca metagross is a pretty universal dd check regardless. i have another version of this w/ sr bliss > metagross and trickscarfjira that works in a similar fashion.
TrickOrbMie Balance
i always have been a fan of trick strategies. this team abuses trickorb mie + a solid defensive backbone to make progress. fear used this vs elodin in his semis match, only he used boldmie > my timid version (bold is probably better). the team runs a bit slow and is susceptible to setup sweepers, so you need to be very careful around dnite/gyara/ttar. you can make jirachi scarf or use scarfmeta in that slot to help the speed problem a bit, but i really like the utility that 3atks jira gives here.
Registeel Offense
probably one of the best teams i have made in the past year. registeel offers a unique combination of rocks + water/dragon/elec absorber + explosion user that patches up a lot of issues traditional setup offense teams have. i always loved the idea of offense + defensive backbone, and regi + donphan fill that niche super well here. they block most opposing setup so i can forego a scarfer while offering superb hazard control. i have always liked adamant donphan bc you can pressure clef with it really well. lum latias is another incredible set (s/o bkc for this) which acts as a loom absorber/hwisher that is a "catch-all" utility slot. overall this team is really good and reshapes offense to come in the tier to a degree. elodin also used a version of this w/ sdzor in invitational/classic by osgoode.
SnatchClef Balance
pretty standard 6 with a twist: snatch clefable to help beat opposing clefable, starmie, latias, zapdos, and other knocked pokemon that think they can outspeed and recover for free. clefable has such a wide utility movepool that remains unexplored. snatch is a borrowed adv tech from blissey which, while limited in usage, can really be game changing when deployed correctly. you can also snatch setup which in a pinch can really help neuter the opposing team (especially vs cmers). used by marcop in invitational, this team is just a solid magsand offense that deploys a twist to get one over on opponents who expect twave/encore/ice beam as the last move.
LeadScarfSciz + Jolteon Offense
scarfsciz is imo a highly underrated pokemon. as a lead it helps neuter psychics like zelf and lati early while providing excellent momentum for pokemon like breloom/lati/mie/jolteon. the star of this team is jolt -- a "noob" pokemon that i think deserves a second look. jolteon outspeeds gyara, dnite, ttar, and scarf metagross which makes it extremely threatening for opposing offense. you need to play your cards right vs. defense as hazards can quickly get out of hand and jolteon is basically useless vs hippoclef builds aside from gaining momentum w/ baton pass. i opted for tect to scout for scarfgon as otherwise this team really struggles against it. i think a better version of this can be made as it really does have issues with fast scarfers and can fall apart pretty quickly if you don't play it offensively. either way, i like the team and i will continue to explore this combination.
3AtkSubJira TSpikes Balance
this team is one of my favorite archetypes that i break out whenever i think i will be facing somebody who is susceptible to tspikes. i used this in classic and marco used this in invitational. the idea is pretty simple -- use tspikes to its maximum offensive capability while retaining decent defensive elements in tran/pert/jira/lati. the jirachi and heatran sets are the real stars of the show here and vs. teams that overly rely on mag/clef/skarm to pivot around jirachi. w/ tspikes you become far more threatening against opposing ground types bar gliscor. the heatran is meant to help shuffle vs defensively oriented teams so that jirachi has an easier time breaking. a tad frail in the long-game as it lacks a spinner, but you can play aggresively against skarm (or swap some sets) to alleviate that issue. overall, this is one of my "trademark" types of teams that i routinely bring.
FWG TSpikes w/ RoarTran
very similar to the above team so i won't go too deep into this one. the idea is obvious: hazard stock + grab momentum w/ ggar and tran. trick defensive lati helps give the team some speed and extra oomf against defensive builds that might otherwise be able to spikestack and outlast this team.
SkillSwapStarmie + SubToxZap
i would say a good 50% of my dpp building is badgered by the question of "how do i beat opposing clefable?" when you're running a defensive team you need to ensure that you don't immediately fold to other clefable. typically, you use your own clefable to pivot and chip until you can win the game by other means. however, what if you decide to drop clefable for a strong special wall, like blissey? one of the biggest issues clef stall has had lately is offenses pivoting to extremely strong specs / orb attackers that clefable simply cannot wall. specs emp, specs kingdra, orb gar, specs lati, specs zap, etc. all really annoy clefable. blissey reinstates the traditional "stall" builds of old, but it fails to outlast clef in sand. the solution is to try and pressure/sneak hits at clefable wherever possible. this is where skill swap starmie comes in. paired w/ toxic zapdos, the idea is to status clefable w/ toxic early by forcing it to come in on zapdos (which typically brings it in) before forcing it to come in again on starmie to knock/stoss it after it spins. without skillswap a team like this would lose this interaction long-term. with skill swap starmie you can seriously cripple clefable. it isn't foolproof, but if you manage to weaken clef to a degree it becomes a lot more manageable. you can also opt for worry seed on roserade as well instead of sleep talk, keep twave (or swap) on starmie, and make jirachi rest so that you have a better pivot into breloom. lots of options, but the question always comes down to how you're going to lure/pressure clefable.
Classic Playoffs
vs. Tenebricite
i sort of phoned this game in building wise. the team above is an osgoode build that we worked on together for a bit before arriving at this final 6. i wanted to use something comfortable, but with a twist, so i opted for this unorthodox stall. i ran into a tough MU w/ specstran + cbtar and was kicking myself for not creeping glisc to 254. regardless, this team is pretty anti-meta and usually does well vs more traditional offenses. cosmic power clef was my way of ensuring i don't lose to opposing dd offense. twave + cpower shuts down gyara/nite/ttar really well and tspikes is a huge enabler. tenta is fat enough to where you can swap it into most special attackers and at least get off a tspike/spin/knock.
vs. Fakes
i was 90% sure fakes was going to bring zapmie against mie. unfortunately i ended up running into the one MU this team really struggles with -- opposing stall w/ shed shell skarm. this game was a drag to play as i couldn't stop myself from losing. this team matches up incredibly well into offense/balance w/ the trick orb cress + trickbarb clef style, though. this is a modification of my snatchclef team by osgoode. i added cm latias > twave b/c clef already fills that niche quite well. i think trickorb clef is actually quite good vs. balance as it forces a switch / trick almost always and does not have to worry about dying under any circumstances turn 1. cm lati paired w/ trick support vs. steels and mag should usually be enough in most cases to secure a win.
if you can't tell, by this point i was tired of getting ct'd in cup, invitational, and in poffs. i wanted to use a team where i felt like i was in complete control while subverting typical counterplay to my style. this team is quite similar to the one i used round 1 in idea, although the execution is a bit different. one thing i will emphasize here that has been a recurring theme on my teams is phys def hippo > sdef hippo. i think sdef hippo is a "good" set, but at the moment i see a lot of diminishing utility in it. sdef hippo struggles to check ddtar, ddnite, sd luke, sd glisc, ihead jira -- basically any physical attacker that has the ability to overwhelm it. sdef hippo was originally crafted to check mixnite + specstran leads that think they can prey upon hippo's usually frail sdef state, and while that is certainly valid (...and probably would have helped me round 1) i think the pivot toward physical overload offense means hippo benefits teams more by being an outright physical wall. you can comfortably swap into +1 ttar, cbtar, metagross, bronzong, etc. without worrying about being 2hko'd. r
vs. Amaranth
i phoned this one in a bit as well. i knew i needed to switch it up as amaranth would be 100% prepared for skarm/defense here. this is an osgoode team pure and simple that focuses on spreading para while utilizing sets like impish tpunch meta to help curb opposing setup sweepers. i also built a paraspam team for this set, but felt this one performed better in general and would be more difficult to interpret from the revealed mons by amaranth.
vs. Fear
from the beginning i knew i wanted to use gastrodon. osgoode had been kicking around some gastro builds here and there since dpp cup started, and i finally decided it was time to bring out the slug. gastro is a tough pokemon to deal w/ for several common structures which fear seemed to be pretty fond of. further, gastrodon is not an easy pokemon to play around for those who have less experience in the tier. it makes trickscarf games pretty tough and also messes with opposing clefable. i figured fear would expect a defensive team from me, so i wanted to bring something that was a bit unorthodox but also still comfortable to use. me and osgoode went through like 10 versions of this team until we finally landed on this one.
the more i look at this 6, the more menacing it seems. i made a few changes last minute before the game started in shed shell skarm + sball bliss (yes, that set is my doing) to get the best of mag/gar. personally, i think SS skarm sucks: skarm without lefties struggles to counter anything but teams which rely exclusively on mag to beat it. however, i was deathly afraid of magnezone here and knew it would be a really good pick vs me, so i decided to just bite the bullet and use shed shell. as it turns out fear did not actually use mag, but skarm didn't turn out super pivotal anyway. once again this is a team based on the "anti-clef" mentality of blissey stall wherein you need to be able to exploit it somehow to justify using bliss. while i didn't think fear would clefskarm me, i wanted to be sure that i could still win that MU. gastrodon is a seriously good and once again unexplored pokemon. not sure where i will take the slug next, but surely i will be using it again.
General Notes
i was pretty nervous going into dpp in playoffs, even though i consider it to be my best tier. i definitely have a distinct style and even when i try to deviate far from it i end up retaining some of the vestigial aspects. most of my teams had predictable weaknesses to gengar, dd gyara, cm offcune + explosion, and opposing magnezone (sometimes). each time i decided to play defense i knew that i was risking a tough MU ahead. however, i also believed that I could outplay my opponents even in the worst case scenario, and modified my teams accordingly so that there was always a surprise or 2 waiting. sometimes it worked out, other times it didn't matter much.
i think dpp in general is in a pretty decent spot right now. just this classic i saw a number of pokemon/sets that were novel and innovative. i also think that the era of "the rng tier" has passed (if anybody good ever took that seriously in the first place). dpp is one of the most skillful tiers with some of the best players. i won't write a long treatise on why jirachi is actually good for the tier here, but it is something i would like to keep in the tier regardless of how annoying other players think it is.
looking at my playoff teams...jeez i use a lot of jirachi and latias. on every single team those 2 make an appearance in some capacity. their role compression ability is unmatched so it isn't exactly a surprise, but somehow i didn't manage to come to that obvious conclusion until just now. i think my downfall as a player has traditionally been that i hate to deviate from my equilibrium (see: finchnator's post about me "spamming balances from 5 years ago in tiers 15 years old") when it comes to me wielding my own teams. when i build for others i try and go outside the box as much as i possibly can (see: lady bug's spl squads)...go figure.
however, i am of the school of thought, since i was a cgou player back in ORAS, that in order to succeed you don't need to reinvent the wheel every single week. you can make slight deviations and subvert your opponent's expectations of your team and simply outplay the rest. if you notice the distinct weaknesses your teams have, you can plug those specific holes by making specific innovations that make typical counter-picks significantly less deadly.
as a final note, i really wanted to be crowned as one of the best modern dppers which is why i put such immense effort in helping my friends/teammates succeed in the tier. i love dpp not only for the metagame itself, but for what it gave to me as my first competitive experience way back when. it's good to see its reputation revived a bit over the past couple of years, and even better to see newer players diving into the generation and making their own innovations.
well, until next time...
DPPL and Invitational
HippoMag + ToxTect Meta
i built this at the end of spl going into dppl. a few people have brought this team in invitational/dppl/other side tours since then. the idea is pretty simple: toxtect meta is an incredible set that helps pressure opposing stall super well, especially when paired with hazard/sand/mag support. this is one of my favorite teams to use and imo it is incredibly solid. it runs into a few bad MUs (shed skarm becoming very popular definitely doesn't help it much) but overall it gets the job done consistently. notably i run an impish hippo here instead of sdef to deal with +2 lucario/ttar/other setup sweepers that sdef hippo gets rolled over by.
Nidoqueen + SubTran Stall
another one of my dppl favorites. a tad slow but it makes up for it by spreading status everywhere + abusing pokemon like wishclef/subtran that take away momentum. 5/6 pokemon on this team have protect, which makes it a nightmare for teams that rely either on choiced users to break, or teams that cannot withstand status. vs offenses / mie balances this team can be extremely effective if you set it up right as it completely avoids the pursuit trap shenanigans enabled by cbtar. this team is way worse off vs opposing defensive builds, and has a hard time beating skarm stall bc tran can't get past clefable effectively. this can be "fixed" by opting for a more offensive (sd?) loom > the current one, and by making lati trick + defensive, or by making tran magma/taunt trap. overall one of my favorite builds and if you are facing an inexperienced player this team will have a great MU.
GyaraPhan + SDSuitZor
i saw how deadly gyarados could be w/ a defensively based set and decided to give a gyaraphan build a try to avoid hazard stacking. the setup here is pretty intuitive: gyara/donphan/clef/lati create a super strong defensive backbone while still enabling a solid offensive front. the team needed a second steel to tank dracos/outrages and also wanted a pursuiter, so i put on a defensive sd zor w/ suit + lum berry to help trap things like wisptaunt gar which otherwise could become a serious issue. overall a really solid team; you can use occa/lefties on scizor or forego SD entirely and put u-turn on it to help avoid magnezone traps while enabling your own. the star of the team is gyarados, and this lead defensive dd set can be extremely deadly against leads that can't kill it (which is most things after intimidate).
TripleCB Offense
i knew i wanted to switch it up as dppl went on, so i created this offensive team based on a triplecb core of dnite/ape/zor. pretty simple, the team basically just feeds of each other until you can decisively win with one of the 3 cbers or sweep w/ agilmeta. i decided to drop a scarfer here bc triple cb priority is safe enough into most set up sweepers, and because shuca metagross is a pretty universal dd check regardless. i have another version of this w/ sr bliss > metagross and trickscarfjira that works in a similar fashion.
TrickOrbMie Balance
i always have been a fan of trick strategies. this team abuses trickorb mie + a solid defensive backbone to make progress. fear used this vs elodin in his semis match, only he used boldmie > my timid version (bold is probably better). the team runs a bit slow and is susceptible to setup sweepers, so you need to be very careful around dnite/gyara/ttar. you can make jirachi scarf or use scarfmeta in that slot to help the speed problem a bit, but i really like the utility that 3atks jira gives here.
Registeel Offense
probably one of the best teams i have made in the past year. registeel offers a unique combination of rocks + water/dragon/elec absorber + explosion user that patches up a lot of issues traditional setup offense teams have. i always loved the idea of offense + defensive backbone, and regi + donphan fill that niche super well here. they block most opposing setup so i can forego a scarfer while offering superb hazard control. i have always liked adamant donphan bc you can pressure clef with it really well. lum latias is another incredible set (s/o bkc for this) which acts as a loom absorber/hwisher that is a "catch-all" utility slot. overall this team is really good and reshapes offense to come in the tier to a degree. elodin also used a version of this w/ sdzor in invitational/classic by osgoode.
SnatchClef Balance
pretty standard 6 with a twist: snatch clefable to help beat opposing clefable, starmie, latias, zapdos, and other knocked pokemon that think they can outspeed and recover for free. clefable has such a wide utility movepool that remains unexplored. snatch is a borrowed adv tech from blissey which, while limited in usage, can really be game changing when deployed correctly. you can also snatch setup which in a pinch can really help neuter the opposing team (especially vs cmers). used by marcop in invitational, this team is just a solid magsand offense that deploys a twist to get one over on opponents who expect twave/encore/ice beam as the last move.
LeadScarfSciz + Jolteon Offense
scarfsciz is imo a highly underrated pokemon. as a lead it helps neuter psychics like zelf and lati early while providing excellent momentum for pokemon like breloom/lati/mie/jolteon. the star of this team is jolt -- a "noob" pokemon that i think deserves a second look. jolteon outspeeds gyara, dnite, ttar, and scarf metagross which makes it extremely threatening for opposing offense. you need to play your cards right vs. defense as hazards can quickly get out of hand and jolteon is basically useless vs hippoclef builds aside from gaining momentum w/ baton pass. i opted for tect to scout for scarfgon as otherwise this team really struggles against it. i think a better version of this can be made as it really does have issues with fast scarfers and can fall apart pretty quickly if you don't play it offensively. either way, i like the team and i will continue to explore this combination.
3AtkSubJira TSpikes Balance
this team is one of my favorite archetypes that i break out whenever i think i will be facing somebody who is susceptible to tspikes. i used this in classic and marco used this in invitational. the idea is pretty simple -- use tspikes to its maximum offensive capability while retaining decent defensive elements in tran/pert/jira/lati. the jirachi and heatran sets are the real stars of the show here and vs. teams that overly rely on mag/clef/skarm to pivot around jirachi. w/ tspikes you become far more threatening against opposing ground types bar gliscor. the heatran is meant to help shuffle vs defensively oriented teams so that jirachi has an easier time breaking. a tad frail in the long-game as it lacks a spinner, but you can play aggresively against skarm (or swap some sets) to alleviate that issue. overall, this is one of my "trademark" types of teams that i routinely bring.
FWG TSpikes w/ RoarTran
very similar to the above team so i won't go too deep into this one. the idea is obvious: hazard stock + grab momentum w/ ggar and tran. trick defensive lati helps give the team some speed and extra oomf against defensive builds that might otherwise be able to spikestack and outlast this team.
SkillSwapStarmie + SubToxZap
i would say a good 50% of my dpp building is badgered by the question of "how do i beat opposing clefable?" when you're running a defensive team you need to ensure that you don't immediately fold to other clefable. typically, you use your own clefable to pivot and chip until you can win the game by other means. however, what if you decide to drop clefable for a strong special wall, like blissey? one of the biggest issues clef stall has had lately is offenses pivoting to extremely strong specs / orb attackers that clefable simply cannot wall. specs emp, specs kingdra, orb gar, specs lati, specs zap, etc. all really annoy clefable. blissey reinstates the traditional "stall" builds of old, but it fails to outlast clef in sand. the solution is to try and pressure/sneak hits at clefable wherever possible. this is where skill swap starmie comes in. paired w/ toxic zapdos, the idea is to status clefable w/ toxic early by forcing it to come in on zapdos (which typically brings it in) before forcing it to come in again on starmie to knock/stoss it after it spins. without skillswap a team like this would lose this interaction long-term. with skill swap starmie you can seriously cripple clefable. it isn't foolproof, but if you manage to weaken clef to a degree it becomes a lot more manageable. you can also opt for worry seed on roserade as well instead of sleep talk, keep twave (or swap) on starmie, and make jirachi rest so that you have a better pivot into breloom. lots of options, but the question always comes down to how you're going to lure/pressure clefable.
Classic Playoffs
vs. Tenebricite
i sort of phoned this game in building wise. the team above is an osgoode build that we worked on together for a bit before arriving at this final 6. i wanted to use something comfortable, but with a twist, so i opted for this unorthodox stall. i ran into a tough MU w/ specstran + cbtar and was kicking myself for not creeping glisc to 254. regardless, this team is pretty anti-meta and usually does well vs more traditional offenses. cosmic power clef was my way of ensuring i don't lose to opposing dd offense. twave + cpower shuts down gyara/nite/ttar really well and tspikes is a huge enabler. tenta is fat enough to where you can swap it into most special attackers and at least get off a tspike/spin/knock.
vs. Fakes
i was 90% sure fakes was going to bring zapmie against mie. unfortunately i ended up running into the one MU this team really struggles with -- opposing stall w/ shed shell skarm. this game was a drag to play as i couldn't stop myself from losing. this team matches up incredibly well into offense/balance w/ the trick orb cress + trickbarb clef style, though. this is a modification of my snatchclef team by osgoode. i added cm latias > twave b/c clef already fills that niche quite well. i think trickorb clef is actually quite good vs. balance as it forces a switch / trick almost always and does not have to worry about dying under any circumstances turn 1. cm lati paired w/ trick support vs. steels and mag should usually be enough in most cases to secure a win.
if you can't tell, by this point i was tired of getting ct'd in cup, invitational, and in poffs. i wanted to use a team where i felt like i was in complete control while subverting typical counterplay to my style. this team is quite similar to the one i used round 1 in idea, although the execution is a bit different. one thing i will emphasize here that has been a recurring theme on my teams is phys def hippo > sdef hippo. i think sdef hippo is a "good" set, but at the moment i see a lot of diminishing utility in it. sdef hippo struggles to check ddtar, ddnite, sd luke, sd glisc, ihead jira -- basically any physical attacker that has the ability to overwhelm it. sdef hippo was originally crafted to check mixnite + specstran leads that think they can prey upon hippo's usually frail sdef state, and while that is certainly valid (...and probably would have helped me round 1) i think the pivot toward physical overload offense means hippo benefits teams more by being an outright physical wall. you can comfortably swap into +1 ttar, cbtar, metagross, bronzong, etc. without worrying about being 2hko'd. r
vs. Amaranth
i phoned this one in a bit as well. i knew i needed to switch it up as amaranth would be 100% prepared for skarm/defense here. this is an osgoode team pure and simple that focuses on spreading para while utilizing sets like impish tpunch meta to help curb opposing setup sweepers. i also built a paraspam team for this set, but felt this one performed better in general and would be more difficult to interpret from the revealed mons by amaranth.
vs. Fear
from the beginning i knew i wanted to use gastrodon. osgoode had been kicking around some gastro builds here and there since dpp cup started, and i finally decided it was time to bring out the slug. gastro is a tough pokemon to deal w/ for several common structures which fear seemed to be pretty fond of. further, gastrodon is not an easy pokemon to play around for those who have less experience in the tier. it makes trickscarf games pretty tough and also messes with opposing clefable. i figured fear would expect a defensive team from me, so i wanted to bring something that was a bit unorthodox but also still comfortable to use. me and osgoode went through like 10 versions of this team until we finally landed on this one.
the more i look at this 6, the more menacing it seems. i made a few changes last minute before the game started in shed shell skarm + sball bliss (yes, that set is my doing) to get the best of mag/gar. personally, i think SS skarm sucks: skarm without lefties struggles to counter anything but teams which rely exclusively on mag to beat it. however, i was deathly afraid of magnezone here and knew it would be a really good pick vs me, so i decided to just bite the bullet and use shed shell. as it turns out fear did not actually use mag, but skarm didn't turn out super pivotal anyway. once again this is a team based on the "anti-clef" mentality of blissey stall wherein you need to be able to exploit it somehow to justify using bliss. while i didn't think fear would clefskarm me, i wanted to be sure that i could still win that MU. gastrodon is a seriously good and once again unexplored pokemon. not sure where i will take the slug next, but surely i will be using it again.
General Notes
i was pretty nervous going into dpp in playoffs, even though i consider it to be my best tier. i definitely have a distinct style and even when i try to deviate far from it i end up retaining some of the vestigial aspects. most of my teams had predictable weaknesses to gengar, dd gyara, cm offcune + explosion, and opposing magnezone (sometimes). each time i decided to play defense i knew that i was risking a tough MU ahead. however, i also believed that I could outplay my opponents even in the worst case scenario, and modified my teams accordingly so that there was always a surprise or 2 waiting. sometimes it worked out, other times it didn't matter much.
i think dpp in general is in a pretty decent spot right now. just this classic i saw a number of pokemon/sets that were novel and innovative. i also think that the era of "the rng tier" has passed (if anybody good ever took that seriously in the first place). dpp is one of the most skillful tiers with some of the best players. i won't write a long treatise on why jirachi is actually good for the tier here, but it is something i would like to keep in the tier regardless of how annoying other players think it is.
looking at my playoff teams...jeez i use a lot of jirachi and latias. on every single team those 2 make an appearance in some capacity. their role compression ability is unmatched so it isn't exactly a surprise, but somehow i didn't manage to come to that obvious conclusion until just now. i think my downfall as a player has traditionally been that i hate to deviate from my equilibrium (see: finchnator's post about me "spamming balances from 5 years ago in tiers 15 years old") when it comes to me wielding my own teams. when i build for others i try and go outside the box as much as i possibly can (see: lady bug's spl squads)...go figure.
however, i am of the school of thought, since i was a cgou player back in ORAS, that in order to succeed you don't need to reinvent the wheel every single week. you can make slight deviations and subvert your opponent's expectations of your team and simply outplay the rest. if you notice the distinct weaknesses your teams have, you can plug those specific holes by making specific innovations that make typical counter-picks significantly less deadly.
as a final note, i really wanted to be crowned as one of the best modern dppers which is why i put such immense effort in helping my friends/teammates succeed in the tier. i love dpp not only for the metagame itself, but for what it gave to me as my first competitive experience way back when. it's good to see its reputation revived a bit over the past couple of years, and even better to see newer players diving into the generation and making their own innovations.
well, until next time...
Body Slam still exists and arguably makes it even more RNG hell. My idea is to ban the combination flinching moves and Para on Jirachi, so if you want to do the RNG hell, you have to invest at least 2 slots to it by itself, which weakens the strategy
Tough follow-up to do here after PDC made a fantastic teamdump and writeup, but I have some of my own builds I wanna share after playing and building so much DPP these last 2 years. Also cuz I don't have any other DPP OU tours for the time being so might as well and also because I know I will probably be labbing out builds at some point and calling Shing a bum when I inevitably run into him on ladder. (Kidding)
Big 5 Flygon
This is probably the team I've used a lot and passed to ppl many times as it's my own personal take on the proven ZapMie archetype. The Jirachi set being Toxic was an inspiration I took from PDC's spl game he used against Kith this year and a variation of a set DeepBlueC used like 5 years ago in SPL against either Fakes or BIHI. Traditional zapmie builds often have a bit of an annoying time against special attackers like Specs Kingdra and shit like Mixgon can just completely ruin ur day if played properly. Zapdos pumping evs into spdef helps alleviate this issue and this team is resilient enough into opposing ttar that I think it can be justified (It was either dridri or tizio potente ao who suggested this idr but this was a fantastic suggestion at the time). I generally hate zapdos being slower than threats like non speed boosting dnite or +0 gyarados and jolly breloom, I went up to 286 because there's like a lot of fringe mons that chill in that base 80 speed territory and I felt like it could never hurt to creep up a bit more. Scarf Flygon as the last on zapmie is not exactly original but I think it works really well here as it lets u cover a good portion of the metagame and u hv both Breloom and CB Tar for stall breaking in the event u run into stall.
RoseDon + SubJirachi Balance
This was a squad I used in DPP Cup and RCoP. Donphan's increased usage over the last year or two in DPP is not unwarranted for good reason. It's a fantastic spinner, but one of the biggest annoyances with Donphan is how toxic spikes can make Don's job at spinning much harder to pull off and that's where Roserade comes in. Rose is a fantastic partner as it lets Donphan have an easier time spinning and also establish a stronghold in the hazard stack war. Dual hazards rose is a fantastic set that should be used more, it can threaten every spinner in the tier, sleep powder on Rose I don't think is nearly as necessary as one might think. Rotom lead also really goes all in on this hazard stack playstyle as well, and one of the biggest challenges rose teams have to overcome is clefable. This Jirachi set ppl are probably all too familiar with on tspikes squads is one such way to work around Clefable, it's pretty annoying for good reason. CM Latias gives a secondary wincon while still having a decent dnite/infernape revenge killer that isn't scarf tran.
Lead Aero + SubPass Offense
This team is like a personal favorite of mine that I was happy to make work at the time. I made this like 3-ish months after it was announced Baton Pass was legal again in a limited capacity so this is probably my oldest team I'm posting here. I went through a lot of iterations before finding a satisfactory composition to make it gel together, I tried mixgon as an abuser, even roost mixnite, there were a bunch of spawns I tried at the time. Mag is like near mandatory if you want to make Celebi pass work. Aero as a lead is self-explanatory I want to deny hazards at all cost, and just have it do some damage before it went down, nothing too crazy here and it can reasonably disguise the team on lead. Zone lets me trap zong reliably which can be a hinderance to the team's overall strategy. The Celebi set is admittingly unusual but u can get away with it for a few reasons: Heatran is one of the most annoying disruptors of the strategy so epower, if it's scarf u basically clear out a major obstable or u force it out and get ur sub up again and celebi beats most phazers that aren't roar lati or skarm (gets trapped). Taunt Gyara IMO should be a staple on these kinds of teams just so u can deny phazing or any non-sense. Jirachi was here just cuz I wanted a reliable revenge killer against Gyara but u can prob do trick if u wanted to and I wanted a chance at rking mixgon which sucks balls for this 6. It's a relatively novel concept and I do hope posting this can encourage ppl to optimize baton pass teams a bit more. I made this team at the time cuz I thought a lot of defensive builds at the time in the tier were just not adequately prepared to handle the strat if properly played.
Azelf Superrachi HO
Very traditional core on Azelf HO with the DD Trinity. The difference here was I opted to have MixNite instead of DDNite which is typically what u see on these Azelf Triple DD-esque builds because I think a lot of those have major flaws into defense and this was my attempt at trying to optimize these builds a bit more so that they have a better overall spread into the metagame as a whole. CB Scizor I think works nicely not only as a pivot but also as a steel that can pursuit and a reliable RKer against opposing offense. Superrachi also appreciates having pursuit support so it works out nicely here. You can either do gknot+hp fire or tbolt + hp ground, it depends on if you value the pert + sciz MU or heatran MU more. Offstar can be annoying for this team but ur suppose to trade down anyways.
Magnet Zap Offense
Magnet Zap is honestly a very underrated pokemon that can sometimes just wreck house if u aren't prepared for it and it is generally a fantastic pick into offensive teams as it threatens a lot of staples and can trade down nicely. Triple Choiced seems weird but 2 of those 3 choiced pokes have trick so it's not that bad into defense. Hwish Lati is nice for giving some breathing room as well.
Lead ScarfSciz + Dual Trappers Offense
Used in RoAPL and DPP Cup vs Oipons. Real simple build but double u-turn and double trappers allowing you to pick and choose ur matchups and gaining the upper hand in forcing ur opponent to play on the backfoot constantly t1. Being able to utilize either suit tar or magnezone to have the ability to pick off the opponent's key defensive pieces is pretty effective in making double scarf work. Gar is taunt here for self explanatory reasons, unfortunately I had to use rocks ttar here which I usually don't love outside of scarf tar on stall but here it felt like a necessity.
Beagle Offense - Tar Edition
Personal take on Beagle that I made during RoAPL but this was probably one of the most frustrating archetypes to build around because of the nature of smeargle as a mon and just how volatile it is compared to say Skarm HO. Most variations of smeargle I thought had issues facing zap so tryna work around that was annoying and I discussed like countless variations with Laurel over the course of 3-4 days and tested like 6 or 7 different versions with Shing before finding a satisfactory version of Beagle. TTar on Beagle is nothing new as Jirachee used it on his famous RMT years ago although he ran a different ddtar set. QA on SD Sciz was a great suggestion BKC made that I thought was actually nice as I originally had Bug Bite but it does help with Sciz punching through Starmie since I already had a strong Jirachi MU with Infernape and can reasonably trade down with Suicune and could overwhelm Pert with the other slots.
Tweaks to known 6's
While not the most original creations here, some of these are well-known squads that I took personal liberties in making edits to that I think work great
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Paraspam Variant of Jirachee 6
This 6 is a timeless classic for a good reason, it's incredibly flexible in terms of sets. I opted to focus on emphasizing a more paraspam centric angle on this 6 and go for a spicier option in Eruption Heatran as I think it has a higher ceiling compared to overheat heatran. Being able to do a variation of this that played very differently from the original sets Jirachee had in his RMT to me just shows just how solid these all pair together.
Scarf Rachi Variant of Mixgon Semi-Stall
One of my biggest annoyances when it comes to mixgon semistall as an archetype is 2 things: The first being how tough special breakers like Specs Starmie or Kingdra can be, to a degree Gengar as well, the second being the very awkward dynamic Mixgon traditionally has against Clefable where it doesn't quite do enough. The original 6 BIHI did with Zong over Rachi and the non scarf rachi Variant SoS worked on (if there was someone else who also did this lmk), I think is good if not great to this day in modern DPP.
I rmr BKC in our roapl cord saying the 6 was too slow and I figured the easiest solution was to do away with Wish Tect Rachi and just go with Scarf Rachi with trick and rocks. It's a surprising how one set change on a single mon can shore up some problem MUs the team might otherwise have. To address the second point, I opted for attack invested Mixgon so that it can at least punish Clef, it usually does a decent to good enough job breaking everything else. Goes to show u sometimes don't need to overhaul a car fully and upgrading one or two parts can sometimes be the difference needed.
Side Tangent: this drives me nuts but seeing people run Mixgon that are slower than Timid Suicune is like some serious kool-aid drinking. It defeats the point of what makes mixgon threatening!
Teams I topped ladder with
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Lead Jolt Offense
I topped ladder for the first time with this squad back in like November 2024 and it was a bit of a fun trip down memory lane as it holds a special place in my heart even if I think the team is probably super flawed and could be optimized more nowadays. Jolt as a lead is very underutilized in DPP and it honestly has a decent MU spread into a fair share of opposing leads. Being able to RK +1 ada gyara and ada dnite was super nice and I built the team around the concept of just abusing the fuck out of breloom and using gyara and dnite behind a sub to get free turns. Nowadays I'd say Jolteon + Gengar is better fundamentally but Jolteon + Gyara being viable Gyaravire as a concept was kinda funny at the time. Echoing what PDC said in his teamdump post, I thoroughly believe ppl should give Jolteon a second look.
SubPunch Loom + SD Sciz
I built this in DPPPL for Week 1 and laddered with it on the side and topped ladder with this squad too. Jolly Sub Breloom is honestly a cheat code with how it can just flip certain interactions on its head like how some teams will swap in Lum Gyara on Spore and trade down with Breloom or say try to sub up for example only to be denied that. It's also nice for working around fast tyranitar. SD Scizor is nice and actually a pretty good partner for Breloom simply because Scizor can free up mach punch from Breloom. Scarf Rachi lead is pretty standard stuff and just overall reliable. PsySurf Mie is unusual but you'll notice how annoying opposing breloom is for this 6 and psy mie keeps opposing Loom honest and also gets the jump on gengar. You don't have to use psy mie on this 6 as wave mie works just fine but it was more of a preference thing.
Mixgon Forry Spikes Fat
Very experimental take on mixgon spikes where I thought abt utilizing pursuitless forretress and relied on a backbone of hippo gyara jira and clef with mixgon being the wincon. I remember theorizing Forry Mixgon as a combo for a bit with Kristyl as mixgon does love having sand up although she had a different version that she messed around with. Defensive Gyara can be really tough to break sometimes especially if you can keep hazards off and roar to double down on the hazard phazing. The unfortunate downside is that the team does have some issues into Breloom if you can't get gyara to be the sleep sack and infernape can be mildly annoying but not unplayable. Another reason for using forry as a spiker over skarm is because the starmie interaction against skarm is generally super awkward whereas Forry with payback can at least keep it's own hazards up in the long term.
Classic XI Playoff Teams
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I was Amaranth's DPP Builder throughout his playoff run so I'll highlight the teams I designed for each round.
Round of 16: Skarm HO Spikes + RD Kingdra
D4 was an interesting opponent to look into prep-wise as he was obviously a very good player, saw a lot of hippowdon and balance teams from him but no real use of rapid spin so I worked on building a skarm HO team that could punish that and overload Clefable which is where dual dragon STAB Mixgon comes into play. The last slot was actually hard to decide as I considered Agil Empo before RD Kingdra but I remember PDC mentioning RD Kingdra as a possible poke to slot onto spikes HO when we were commentating one of the DPP Invitational games for YouTube. Sciz and TTar are natural fits here as well although Sciz traditionally runs scarf on these kinds of teams but into the kind of scout I saw, I felt SD was warranted here.
Quarterfinals: GyaraForry + 4A Rhyperior
When I saw Kingler's scout, I realized all his teams was from the SoS SPL Dump that was posted this year in like a matter of 5 minutes although I didn't want to completely bank on that. (To be fair, it's an excellent team dump) There were a few ways to approach but ultimately wanted to bank on possible unfamiliarity and techs that would be awesome lures/workarounds. I wanted to make sure the team can be prepared to play the long game. RT Jirachi was so that Breloom's effectiveness is limited and places less inherent burden on Latias to go god mode and stop everything. The Blissey spread was a tweaked idea I got from PDC a while back and I made it sball toss wave here and opted for dual hazards forry. Sball Blissey keeps Gengar honest as this team actually has some issues dealing with gengar otherwise. Focus Punch Rhyperior is a little unusual but the idea is that it gives u a midground in the skarm MU to bypass the Roost mindgames and net either 30% or 65-70% which is something Fire Punch can't do and Skarm can't exactly do much back to Rhyperior.
Semifinals - Celebi SubPass + Gengar + Dual DDers
PDC was always going to be a tough case to crack, I knew defense was basically his go-to as he himself highlighted. There were a few options we looked at throughout the week such as Heracross or Rhyperior paraspam. Opted to go for a more off-meta pick with subpass but not of the Jolt variety which had some usage here and there in Invitational. I knew PDC was at least aware of the strategy being viable but I wanted to attempt a take of celebi pass into gengar or a dder as a sub passed to taunt gar temporarily lets gar pretend it has 5 moves and could bully some of the teams he loved using. Unfortunately it did not work out that way. Ttar with subpass was actually not something I worked with a ton in prior subpass experimentations but ttar ideally made heatran have a harder time being a disruptor against celepass.
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Closing Thoughts
DPP is a fantastic metagame, we've seen a lot of experimentation whether thats Invitational with Tenta for example seeing real resurgence in usage and set tweaks on OU staples like refresh on Pert or Toxic Rachi is pretty cool.
As for metagame thoughts, Blissey should definitely see more use especially as we've seen so teams load up on special breakers that can punch past Clefable but not necessarily break Blissey as well. The only thing I would think is a real issue is like Sleep which is just dumb on a fundamental level and should go. As I said earlier, definitely encourage ppl to give Jolteon a second look as its not as big of a noob trap as it appears to be and I think baton pass has a lot of unexplored applications that hasn't been grinded out fully. Magnet Zap should be tried out more as it is so threatening if u can work around the stall MU.
Just wanna s/o the Darkrais and Yanmas for giving me a wonderful experience these past 2 years as well as SDO; you are real ones. Y'all are wonderful ppl. Oh also s/o to everyone I've worked with in DPP Revival.
Anyways see yall later
Big 5 Flygon
This is probably the team I've used a lot and passed to ppl many times as it's my own personal take on the proven ZapMie archetype. The Jirachi set being Toxic was an inspiration I took from PDC's spl game he used against Kith this year and a variation of a set DeepBlueC used like 5 years ago in SPL against either Fakes or BIHI. Traditional zapmie builds often have a bit of an annoying time against special attackers like Specs Kingdra and shit like Mixgon can just completely ruin ur day if played properly. Zapdos pumping evs into spdef helps alleviate this issue and this team is resilient enough into opposing ttar that I think it can be justified (It was either dridri or tizio potente ao who suggested this idr but this was a fantastic suggestion at the time). I generally hate zapdos being slower than threats like non speed boosting dnite or +0 gyarados and jolly breloom, I went up to 286 because there's like a lot of fringe mons that chill in that base 80 speed territory and I felt like it could never hurt to creep up a bit more. Scarf Flygon as the last on zapmie is not exactly original but I think it works really well here as it lets u cover a good portion of the metagame and u hv both Breloom and CB Tar for stall breaking in the event u run into stall.
RoseDon + SubJirachi Balance
This was a squad I used in DPP Cup and RCoP. Donphan's increased usage over the last year or two in DPP is not unwarranted for good reason. It's a fantastic spinner, but one of the biggest annoyances with Donphan is how toxic spikes can make Don's job at spinning much harder to pull off and that's where Roserade comes in. Rose is a fantastic partner as it lets Donphan have an easier time spinning and also establish a stronghold in the hazard stack war. Dual hazards rose is a fantastic set that should be used more, it can threaten every spinner in the tier, sleep powder on Rose I don't think is nearly as necessary as one might think. Rotom lead also really goes all in on this hazard stack playstyle as well, and one of the biggest challenges rose teams have to overcome is clefable. This Jirachi set ppl are probably all too familiar with on tspikes squads is one such way to work around Clefable, it's pretty annoying for good reason. CM Latias gives a secondary wincon while still having a decent dnite/infernape revenge killer that isn't scarf tran.
Lead Aero + SubPass Offense
This team is like a personal favorite of mine that I was happy to make work at the time. I made this like 3-ish months after it was announced Baton Pass was legal again in a limited capacity so this is probably my oldest team I'm posting here. I went through a lot of iterations before finding a satisfactory composition to make it gel together, I tried mixgon as an abuser, even roost mixnite, there were a bunch of spawns I tried at the time. Mag is like near mandatory if you want to make Celebi pass work. Aero as a lead is self-explanatory I want to deny hazards at all cost, and just have it do some damage before it went down, nothing too crazy here and it can reasonably disguise the team on lead. Zone lets me trap zong reliably which can be a hinderance to the team's overall strategy. The Celebi set is admittingly unusual but u can get away with it for a few reasons: Heatran is one of the most annoying disruptors of the strategy so epower, if it's scarf u basically clear out a major obstable or u force it out and get ur sub up again and celebi beats most phazers that aren't roar lati or skarm (gets trapped). Taunt Gyara IMO should be a staple on these kinds of teams just so u can deny phazing or any non-sense. Jirachi was here just cuz I wanted a reliable revenge killer against Gyara but u can prob do trick if u wanted to and I wanted a chance at rking mixgon which sucks balls for this 6. It's a relatively novel concept and I do hope posting this can encourage ppl to optimize baton pass teams a bit more. I made this team at the time cuz I thought a lot of defensive builds at the time in the tier were just not adequately prepared to handle the strat if properly played.
Azelf Superrachi HO
Very traditional core on Azelf HO with the DD Trinity. The difference here was I opted to have MixNite instead of DDNite which is typically what u see on these Azelf Triple DD-esque builds because I think a lot of those have major flaws into defense and this was my attempt at trying to optimize these builds a bit more so that they have a better overall spread into the metagame as a whole. CB Scizor I think works nicely not only as a pivot but also as a steel that can pursuit and a reliable RKer against opposing offense. Superrachi also appreciates having pursuit support so it works out nicely here. You can either do gknot+hp fire or tbolt + hp ground, it depends on if you value the pert + sciz MU or heatran MU more. Offstar can be annoying for this team but ur suppose to trade down anyways.
Magnet Zap Offense
Magnet Zap is honestly a very underrated pokemon that can sometimes just wreck house if u aren't prepared for it and it is generally a fantastic pick into offensive teams as it threatens a lot of staples and can trade down nicely. Triple Choiced seems weird but 2 of those 3 choiced pokes have trick so it's not that bad into defense. Hwish Lati is nice for giving some breathing room as well.
Lead ScarfSciz + Dual Trappers Offense
Used in RoAPL and DPP Cup vs Oipons. Real simple build but double u-turn and double trappers allowing you to pick and choose ur matchups and gaining the upper hand in forcing ur opponent to play on the backfoot constantly t1. Being able to utilize either suit tar or magnezone to have the ability to pick off the opponent's key defensive pieces is pretty effective in making double scarf work. Gar is taunt here for self explanatory reasons, unfortunately I had to use rocks ttar here which I usually don't love outside of scarf tar on stall but here it felt like a necessity.
Beagle Offense - Tar Edition
Personal take on Beagle that I made during RoAPL but this was probably one of the most frustrating archetypes to build around because of the nature of smeargle as a mon and just how volatile it is compared to say Skarm HO. Most variations of smeargle I thought had issues facing zap so tryna work around that was annoying and I discussed like countless variations with Laurel over the course of 3-4 days and tested like 6 or 7 different versions with Shing before finding a satisfactory version of Beagle. TTar on Beagle is nothing new as Jirachee used it on his famous RMT years ago although he ran a different ddtar set. QA on SD Sciz was a great suggestion BKC made that I thought was actually nice as I originally had Bug Bite but it does help with Sciz punching through Starmie since I already had a strong Jirachi MU with Infernape and can reasonably trade down with Suicune and could overwhelm Pert with the other slots.
Tweaks to known 6's
While not the most original creations here, some of these are well-known squads that I took personal liberties in making edits to that I think work great
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Paraspam Variant of Jirachee 6
This 6 is a timeless classic for a good reason, it's incredibly flexible in terms of sets. I opted to focus on emphasizing a more paraspam centric angle on this 6 and go for a spicier option in Eruption Heatran as I think it has a higher ceiling compared to overheat heatran. Being able to do a variation of this that played very differently from the original sets Jirachee had in his RMT to me just shows just how solid these all pair together.
Scarf Rachi Variant of Mixgon Semi-Stall
One of my biggest annoyances when it comes to mixgon semistall as an archetype is 2 things: The first being how tough special breakers like Specs Starmie or Kingdra can be, to a degree Gengar as well, the second being the very awkward dynamic Mixgon traditionally has against Clefable where it doesn't quite do enough. The original 6 BIHI did with Zong over Rachi and the non scarf rachi Variant SoS worked on (if there was someone else who also did this lmk), I think is good if not great to this day in modern DPP.
I rmr BKC in our roapl cord saying the 6 was too slow and I figured the easiest solution was to do away with Wish Tect Rachi and just go with Scarf Rachi with trick and rocks. It's a surprising how one set change on a single mon can shore up some problem MUs the team might otherwise have. To address the second point, I opted for attack invested Mixgon so that it can at least punish Clef, it usually does a decent to good enough job breaking everything else. Goes to show u sometimes don't need to overhaul a car fully and upgrading one or two parts can sometimes be the difference needed.
Side Tangent: this drives me nuts but seeing people run Mixgon that are slower than Timid Suicune is like some serious kool-aid drinking. It defeats the point of what makes mixgon threatening!
Teams I topped ladder with
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Lead Jolt Offense
SubPunch Loom + SD Sciz
I built this in DPPPL for Week 1 and laddered with it on the side and topped ladder with this squad too. Jolly Sub Breloom is honestly a cheat code with how it can just flip certain interactions on its head like how some teams will swap in Lum Gyara on Spore and trade down with Breloom or say try to sub up for example only to be denied that. It's also nice for working around fast tyranitar. SD Scizor is nice and actually a pretty good partner for Breloom simply because Scizor can free up mach punch from Breloom. Scarf Rachi lead is pretty standard stuff and just overall reliable. PsySurf Mie is unusual but you'll notice how annoying opposing breloom is for this 6 and psy mie keeps opposing Loom honest and also gets the jump on gengar. You don't have to use psy mie on this 6 as wave mie works just fine but it was more of a preference thing.
Mixgon Forry Spikes Fat
Very experimental take on mixgon spikes where I thought abt utilizing pursuitless forretress and relied on a backbone of hippo gyara jira and clef with mixgon being the wincon. I remember theorizing Forry Mixgon as a combo for a bit with Kristyl as mixgon does love having sand up although she had a different version that she messed around with. Defensive Gyara can be really tough to break sometimes especially if you can keep hazards off and roar to double down on the hazard phazing. The unfortunate downside is that the team does have some issues into Breloom if you can't get gyara to be the sleep sack and infernape can be mildly annoying but not unplayable. Another reason for using forry as a spiker over skarm is because the starmie interaction against skarm is generally super awkward whereas Forry with payback can at least keep it's own hazards up in the long term.
Classic XI Playoff Teams
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I was Amaranth's DPP Builder throughout his playoff run so I'll highlight the teams I designed for each round.
Round of 16: Skarm HO Spikes + RD Kingdra
D4 was an interesting opponent to look into prep-wise as he was obviously a very good player, saw a lot of hippowdon and balance teams from him but no real use of rapid spin so I worked on building a skarm HO team that could punish that and overload Clefable which is where dual dragon STAB Mixgon comes into play. The last slot was actually hard to decide as I considered Agil Empo before RD Kingdra but I remember PDC mentioning RD Kingdra as a possible poke to slot onto spikes HO when we were commentating one of the DPP Invitational games for YouTube. Sciz and TTar are natural fits here as well although Sciz traditionally runs scarf on these kinds of teams but into the kind of scout I saw, I felt SD was warranted here.
Quarterfinals: GyaraForry + 4A Rhyperior
When I saw Kingler's scout, I realized all his teams was from the SoS SPL Dump that was posted this year in like a matter of 5 minutes although I didn't want to completely bank on that. (To be fair, it's an excellent team dump) There were a few ways to approach but ultimately wanted to bank on possible unfamiliarity and techs that would be awesome lures/workarounds. I wanted to make sure the team can be prepared to play the long game. RT Jirachi was so that Breloom's effectiveness is limited and places less inherent burden on Latias to go god mode and stop everything. The Blissey spread was a tweaked idea I got from PDC a while back and I made it sball toss wave here and opted for dual hazards forry. Sball Blissey keeps Gengar honest as this team actually has some issues dealing with gengar otherwise. Focus Punch Rhyperior is a little unusual but the idea is that it gives u a midground in the skarm MU to bypass the Roost mindgames and net either 30% or 65-70% which is something Fire Punch can't do and Skarm can't exactly do much back to Rhyperior.
Semifinals - Celebi SubPass + Gengar + Dual DDers
PDC was always going to be a tough case to crack, I knew defense was basically his go-to as he himself highlighted. There were a few options we looked at throughout the week such as Heracross or Rhyperior paraspam. Opted to go for a more off-meta pick with subpass but not of the Jolt variety which had some usage here and there in Invitational. I knew PDC was at least aware of the strategy being viable but I wanted to attempt a take of celebi pass into gengar or a dder as a sub passed to taunt gar temporarily lets gar pretend it has 5 moves and could bully some of the teams he loved using. Unfortunately it did not work out that way. Ttar with subpass was actually not something I worked with a ton in prior subpass experimentations but ttar ideally made heatran have a harder time being a disruptor against celepass.
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Closing Thoughts
DPP is a fantastic metagame, we've seen a lot of experimentation whether thats Invitational with Tenta for example seeing real resurgence in usage and set tweaks on OU staples like refresh on Pert or Toxic Rachi is pretty cool.
As for metagame thoughts, Blissey should definitely see more use especially as we've seen so teams load up on special breakers that can punch past Clefable but not necessarily break Blissey as well. The only thing I would think is a real issue is like Sleep which is just dumb on a fundamental level and should go. As I said earlier, definitely encourage ppl to give Jolteon a second look as its not as big of a noob trap as it appears to be and I think baton pass has a lot of unexplored applications that hasn't been grinded out fully. Magnet Zap should be tried out more as it is so threatening if u can work around the stall MU.
Just wanna s/o the Darkrais and Yanmas for giving me a wonderful experience these past 2 years as well as SDO; you are real ones. Y'all are wonderful ppl. Oh also s/o to everyone I've worked with in DPP Revival.
Anyways see yall later
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