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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
This conversation happens every few months, but I still believe that the terrible movepool Haxmin has allows enough counterplay for it... or would if it wasnt for Tera. Haxmin has no place in SV OU, but I wouldnt automatically discard it in future Gens without at least giving it a chance, unless the generational gimmick benefits it again or it gets more movepool. If Palafin Suspect taught us something is that we should be a little more open minded towards weak Ubers.
OU discussion thread try not to discuss dropping ubers challenge: Impossible
The way we go about it is most likely a tera blast ban. A lot of top players I've seen have said that it should be banned because it causes way too high variance in there tier and breaks multiple mons/makes them a lot harder to deal with. I'm fine with another kyurem ban (it was extremely close this time, like seriously close so it's not as much of a meme as some people make it out to be), but I think tera blast would be best as it not only nerfs kyurem, but nerfs a lot of mons that can be annoying to account for.
Easier to deal being locked into a water or fighting type move than the dark or fire of chi you my guy.
Ideally, the timeline goes as follows:
HOME and SV update mid 25, allowing like 50 mons into SV
ZA releases Holiday 25, affecting nothing like PLA initially did
HOME and SV update for at least a few ZA 'mons mid 26, a la Sneasler and Hisuian Starters
[INSERT TITLE HERE] Gen 10 releases Holiday 26, meaning that we officially enter a new Generation and new Meta
i mean i fully support a tera blast suspect, but i'm not confident in it. not because i don't think there will be support, but because i've noticed a pattern where everyone starts talking about a tb suspect, people start gearing up like it's gonna happen any day now, the council seems to be on board, the suspect thread is practically already up, and then nothing happens for two months and something else ends up suspected instead
STAB seed flare x air slash + earth power for coverage as well as subseed is a terrible movepool? I understand that it doesn’t have a Deoxys sized movepool but it definitely has basically everything it needs already.
I haven't been around the block enough, but god does that feel similar to DPP OU. I hope we can be different, and actually push through with Tera Blast like next month at the latest, even if it stays in.
the terrible movepool in question:
seriously, even without packing an 80% chance to give its opponents -2 spdef and a 60% chance to flinch it's still fucked-up hard to switch into
You do realise machamp has been banned in DPP very recently. They infact have made progress and we will too most likely.
Tera Blast is going to score the highest on the survey (if we ever even get one) and we are going to get a 3rd Kyurem suspect, then probably a 4th one when the inevitable DNB verdict is reached. Either that or there will be no survey and the Kyurem 3 suspect is announced due to a nebulous "people complaining about it" like the ridiculous Gliscor suspect. Calling it now
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I'll keep my thoughts brief since theyre not gen 9 related, but how is banning a barely-OU, walled-by-ghosts, rng-dependent chump like machamp progress, when the real issues imo are Latias and Jirachi, the latter of which is touted as a steel wall but is actually an rng haxor shitling who can and will serene grace iron head heatran to death, and the former of which was unbanned for seemingly no reason?
As for Progress in SV OU; what even is progress for us? What are we progressing towards, in better terms than "a healthy meta" since that's almost as nebulous as tiering policy? I don't doubt that we will (eventually, by brute force if it comes to it) make progress, but what direction is that?
I mean, it's still progress isn't it? Not a whole lot, but still something. Also saying walled by ghost and rng dependant is wild. No ghosts would switch in fear of payback (in DPP payback got double power on switches, so it would be 100 bp if they predicted it) and the rng was the whole reason they banned machamp because it was able to cheese out wins that it shouldn't never had.
Idk much about Latias, but I believe it was because it adds a very nice speed control option with a lot of utility.
I don't think the council ever said anything official about a tera blast suspect. ausma has supported the concept but I don't think it was ever officially said to be happening. a survey coming out soon has been talked about more than a tera blast suspect happening soon
is it inevitable, though? between people's minds being changed from the actual period where kyurem was banned and a couple dnb voters being banned for unrelated reasons, i can imagine it being a ban this time around
but we don't exactly have to leave this to the imagination, so let's find out! if anyone reading this voted in the kyurem suspect, let everyone know: if you voted again today, would you vote differently and why?
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It got banned just yesterday
How about y’all give Kyurem and Gliscor a rest and go after Uberpon and Kingcheap? Give some fresh blood a chance.
Uberpon is dumb stupid and there is a set that beats damn near every defensive counterplay.
KingCheap needs no argument, everyone knows it’s busted but people have “accepted” it for so long.
Yea Gambit probably isn't a mon I'd go after for a while. IDK how others feel, but it feels weaker to me now than its been for some time. This mainly just comes to its inability to remove boots or Helmet in the early game & feeling like you need to conserve it for the end game. I always felt the take of "needing 4 checks to it" to be bullshit - usually the combination of one hard check like Corv, Tusk, Lando-T, or Zama + 1 soft check like Moltres, Dragapult, etc. has been enough to handle it from my experience, and the mon has some issues with lures as well. I think most of the shit you are using to check it is applicable into the rest of the metagame as well - like Moltres completly owns most Tusk, Zama is good into everything, Tusk is the only option for removal, and Corviknight is one of the best Pokemon into Gliscor.
Ogerpon-W I think will not get banned. Most ban palafin players are DNB Wellspring and its issues with the locked Tera Type & Item slot + its somewhat middling bulk are becoming increasingly exploitable over time. And even aside from that, its defensive utility is critical for other mons in the metagame like Alomomola (which enables way more Toxic breakers) and Manaphy (which IMO is more toxic to deal with if left unchecked due to great tera & item versatility + none of its moves making contact).
Ogerpon-W I think will not get banned. Most ban palafin players are DNB Wellspring and its issues with the locked Tera Type & Item slot + its somewhat middling bulk are becoming increasingly exploitable over time. And even aside from that, its defensive utility is critical for other mons in the metagame like Alomomola (which enables way more Toxic breakers) and Manaphy (which IMO is more toxic to deal with if left unchecked due to great tera & item versatility + none of its moves making contact).
The next target, if there is enough support for it, needs to be something with as little divergence as possible, even if you don't consider it the biggest threat in the metagame, consider it as a possible advancement for the tier. I'm in favor of Kyurem, the metagame was not only better without it than with it, but Kyurem also adapted and started to execute Dragon Dance more frequently, with many variations involving a physical Tera Blast Fire/Electric/Ground + Scale Shot or a mix with Freeze-Dry. However, I agree with giving it a rest, we've been dealing with this for several months after the unban, so waiting for one or two more suspects on something less controversial (the last few days have made me realize that it's still very controversial and there are very convinced DnB players, and that's okay) and that can bring development to the metagame is the best for me.
Reducing the number of threats to take the suffocation out of the teambuild is my preference, so I'm in favor of several bans, each one in its due time, individually and if necessary.
My preferences (possibly elaborated post-survey):
Tera Blast 
Reducing the number of threats to take the suffocation out of the teambuild is my preference, so I'm in favor of several bans, each one in its due time, individually and if necessary.
My preferences (possibly elaborated post-survey):
Tera Blast 
Palafin remains banned, not even getting a 25% vote to Unban.
Crazy how a Water type capable of living a Horn Leech from Ogerpon Wellspring with 0 investment, then easily KO back, and can do so with resisted attacks if Ogerpon Terastallizes, would remain banned.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Palafin-Hero: 288-338 (84.4 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera in Rain: 327-384 (108.6 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Jet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera in Rain: 219-258 (72.7 - 85.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Psychic Palafin-Hero Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera: 291-343 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
But seriously if you can do over 70% to a resist (a decently bulky one too) with a priority move (not even Sucker Punch or Extreme Speed btw), without multiple stat boosts, you should not be OU.
Crazy how a Water type capable of living a Horn Leech from Ogerpon Wellspring with 0 investment, then easily KO back, and can do so with resisted attacks if Ogerpon Terastallizes, would remain banned.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Palafin-Hero: 288-338 (84.4 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera in Rain: 327-384 (108.6 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Jet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera in Rain: 219-258 (72.7 - 85.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Psychic Palafin-Hero Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera: 291-343 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
But seriously if you can do over 70% to a resist (a decently bulky one too) with a priority move (not even Sucker Punch or Extreme Speed btw), without multiple stat boosts, you should not be OU.
Kyurem is just one of several Pokemon in the camp of "click Dragon Dance to win instantly" and I fail to see how it's different from RM or Dnite aside from having a bit more set variety. The optimal way to go would be to ban Tera Blast as it would neuter Kyurem and basically everything else that people are calling "problematic". I am going to lose it if Tera Blast isn't the highest scoring item on the survey.