Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Dead by Daylight]

This is legit the only Thread I've been banned from in the past from whom I am not still banned. Wai no there's also CG OU Discussion

Thanks for admitting you’re a bad presence in many threads…?

It's Boring to watch, annoying ass ladder to play, never went above 30 Games bc it was so Boring. I appreciate the fact that you like 130 turn games at 1600 elo, I don’t

Glad to know you were raised on Cocomelon and never played in any tours with that attention span of yours.

slopcat: I really don’t mind answering the ragebait - if anything, it gives me a few laughs to wonder how someone like him isn’t banned from the thread already.

 

[Cyber-DJ]

whatttttttt the guy who constantly ragebaits and react farms by hyperdefending matchup fish shitmons is ragebaiting and react farming????? its so incredibly clear this guy just plays the shittiest cheeseteams ever and then has the audacity to start swinging on people when they point out that his epic subversive takes are in fact the most obvious ragebait of all time. like oras is a hyper offense hellscape give it a fucking breakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

im not trying to start even more shit but i think collectively too many people give this guy any fucking credence because he uses 200-level grammar combined with absolute fucking arkham asylum logic to convince people that he isn't just shitting out takes to farm reactions and clout. if literally ANYONE else was saying "uuhhhhhhhh lets unban reshiram durrr!!!!" NOBODY would give a fuck but for some reason the fucking hypnosis snow guy is the one we are taking even the slightest amount of metagame chinstroking.

like illouri said this is legit the 6th time in like 3 months that this guy has just said something absolutely bonkers and then spent 12-28 hours defending it with the most asinine reasoning and etiquette as though admitting MEGA AUDINO is shit will somehow cost him his entire stockpile of clout from people who have no idea how tiering works

I'm not exactly zealous about NOT trying out some suspects, but after the fifth goddamn ragebait attempt you would think that we'd get it through our heads that this guy isnt meant to be taken seriously? if someone's going fucking nuts on public transportation you don't think to yourself "oh shit dude what if the babylonians really did predict the lizard people taking over the world" you just disengage and don't try to feed into the fire. this thread makes me feel like i'm taking crazy pills but clearly buddy managed to corner the fucking market

So what you're getting at is this guy is Natdex Seraphyde?

 

[slopcat]

So what you're getting at is this guy is Natdex Seraphyde?

he's natdex ben shapiro

 

[Comett7778]

So what you're getting at is this guy is Natdex Seraphyde?

Yes, except Seraphyde has a couple thing they say repeatedly(like how rapid spin is op). Kinak has about 50 different things. A while back they claimed Mega Audino was good, then a week later said Urshifu-Dark should be suspected over Roaring Moon.

The other thing is idk if Seraphyde truely believes what they say. Kinak does to some degree. When he said Orthworm, and Jarachi were good and should be meta, I fought him on ladder using teams with those mons. He says he’s only gonna play Overquil rain, and a couple of days ago I fought him and he was using an Overquil rain team.

 

[Cyber-DJ]

A while back they claimed Mega Audino was good,

Wasn't it actually Mega-Gardevoir, or is that just another to add to the pile?

then a week later said Urshifu-Dark should be suspected over Roaring Moon.

Bro was paid off by big VGC. I'm calling it rn

The other thing is idk if Seraphyde truely believes what they say. Kinak does to some degree. When he said Orthworm, and Jarachi were good and should be meta, I fought him on ladder using teams with those mons. He says he’s only gonna play Overquil rain, and a couple of days ago I fought him and he was using an Overquil rain team.

 

[Epicgamergod69]

"interesting metagame" My brother in christ this is about to become ORAS OU

"Oras ou" checks mons from gen 7 through 9... Yeah sure f tier bait also haha this man

 

[Comett7778]

Wasn't it actually Mega-Gardevoir, or is that just another to add to the pile?

It’s another add

Mega Audino on the other hand already scared off people. While it's Obviously a hard check to Draga, why would one use a Mega slot on this? well depending on the EV spread Mega Aud Can check almost everything that doesn't hit is for SE Damage, And thanks to its Huuuuge movepool it can spread Para, knock, Heal bell, Wishtect, Chip things down bit by bit with Dazzling gleam, or do BOOM and snipe shit with its Crazy Coverage
60 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor-Mega: 284-336 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 184-220 (50.5 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-186 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So actually it can do stuff. And it can Skill Swap with stuff Like Gliscor to Table the turns, Yawn things to force Pivot, especially effective with Knock, imo its absence of ability (except if u run Skill swap) is what scares people off, but imo it can be overcame, esp with support like Hazard Control and Hazard themselves.
So you can slap a Coverage move in there, just like slowking will sometimes pull Ice Beam/Flamethrower out its ass to Snipe a mon.

This one post they made includes Orthworm and Jirachi too.

 

[Patar136]

You know, when I make posts about Kingdra being a fun Pokemon to use I don’t actually get too upset when somebody says I’m dumb. Cause I know it’s just my own personal opinion and that it’s not really gonna hurt anything.

But saying to unban Chi-Yu, if it isn’t trolling, is just insanity. We might as well say free Chien Pao. Has the same element of logic.

 

[Toxic Ariados]

This one post he made includes Orthworm and Jirachi too

TBH Jirachi can kinda be used as a finisher with Z Celebrate on Psychic Terrain teams or something. The fact that it can kinda cheese things like Clodsire with Iron Head makes it potentially annoying to face. Aura Sphere also nails Kingambit, but that's about it. I know I'm really stretching Jirachi's usability here but as someone who has used it a bit, it can kinda work? Though relying purely on luck to take out your counters is not a good trait to have, unless you're Shaymin Sky.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Glad to know you were raised on Cocomelon and never played in any tours with that attention span of yours.

Bro I stg there was never anything more free than this. I find shorter games cool but i can stay In a game for long. I js Don't build my teams like this. Saying that I spent my childhood In Front of COCOMELON However is not something I can Just shrug off. Like what Did I Even do to you?

he's natdex ben shapiro

Who the fuck is this. it's not positive for sure but what IS that.

A while back they claimed Mega Audino was good, then a week later said Urshifu-Dark should be suspected over Roaring Moon.

Actually during my yapping session at 1 Am I Did admit I was wrong on Mega Audino and Darkshifu. And turns out i Am Also wrong on chi-yu (curse Z-moves). However, Roaring Moon is satan.

So what you're getting at is this guy is Natdex Seraphyde?

Who on earth is Seraphyde

The meta's very playable and interesting

Shamefully, smogon doesnt support Giraffe Emoji

Wasn't it actually Mega-Gardevoir, or is that just another to add to the pile?

Mega gardevoir is an interesting mon from my point of view as the ability to sometimes click Will-o-wisp Or Just Stronger Focus Blasts, along with stronger fairy STAB, And honestly Comparable psychic stabs, as Well as Trace being kinda useful when in Base (trace regen, intim, magic guard), like yea you could Run Lele but Mgarde is not Too farfetched.



Erm, overqwil rocks, pls stop insulting me too

 

[SBMalus]

Oh boy did I miss an invalid crash out

 

[Comett7778]

as someone who has used it a bit, it can kinda work? Though relying purely on luck to take out your counters is not a good trait to have, unless you're Shaymin Sky.

if you build around it, it can be good. Especially if you spam moves with status chances. That’s less being a good mon, and more just cheese. Once you hit 1400s it starts contributing less and less as the players start to get better and better.

Who the fuck is this. it's not positive for sure but what IS that.

VERY VERY controversial American Politician.

Actually during my yapping session at 1 Am I Did admit I was wrong on Mega Audino and Darkshifu. And turns out i Am Also wrong on chi-yu (curse Z-moves). However, Roaring Moon is satan.

Fair for listening to others arguments and changing your opinion. It’s something I feel the world(including myself) lacks and should improve on(it’s something I’m working on improving). Agree to disagree on the moon thing tho.

 

[Toxic Ariados]

Actually during my yapping session at 1 Am I Did admit I was wrong on Mega Audino and Darkshifu. And turns out i Am Also wrong on chi-yu (curse Z-moves).

Character development, yay!!

 

[slopcat]

Who the fuck is this. it's not positive for sure but what IS that.

feigning not even having the cursory background knowledge to know who he is NOR the tehcnical aptitude to look up "ben shapiro" on google.com is actually a new low

yk what you got it brotha he's just a figure eternally shrouded in mystery lost to the annals of time there is no conceivable way you could discover this groundbreaking knowledge

 

[Dahness]

This whole Chi Yu debate is actually insane, but i dont think kinak understands what mon he is suggesting to free.We all know the famous Chi Yu specs overheat in sun vs Blissey, but as some other based ndubers players have mentioned, Chi Yu actually has a legimate niche even in NDUbers. We got people from ndubers and ndmono coming in to say how crazy his takes are.True unity of the ND subforum right there.Anyway, let me show you something that should show how absurd this mon is.

Check out this replay of one of my NDFL ndubers matches: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexubers-793333
As you can see, with a single nasty plot, Chi Yu was able to annihilate half of my team in a mere number of turns, and would have also dropped the rest of the team if it wasn't for the Fire Blast miss on Darkceus. Kin+ak (✧∇✧) do you actually think this mon would have any fraction of a healthy presence in this tier? Besides, the so called "counters" you mentioned are not effective at dealing with it, as Chi Yu shits even on mons that ressist its moves.

Also, regarding your opinion on Roaring Moon- as i have said in my post on the sus thread, i think Rmoon has a legitimate list of solidified counters: Great Tusk, Iron Valliant, Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor are all very common ndou meta mons who are able to wall it and punish it effectively.

I have been playing gen 9 ndou since day 1, with all of the broken itterations of the meta we had, Ogerpon-H, Bax+Veil, Ursaluna BM and the first week where we had kyurem-b, mega blaze, regieleki with tera and deos all freed. I can confidently say that since the tera ban, this meta has been at its healthiest point ever. All team playstyles are viable, they all have their quirks, their strongpoints and their weakpoints and you generally have no one mon who is stronger than another in my opinion. One negative trend that i have seen since the tera ban has been this whole " let's unban x uber!" , "let's drop this mon since tera is banned now". Kinak isn't the only person who has done this, since i saw a lot of people namedrop random crazy strong mons to be freed like Palafin and so on. I dont get the idea behind all this rush to free uber mons, i'd say we should try and free something new every couple of months, not have a sus for a potential new uber to drop every month. This Roaring Moon sus is a perfect example of that, as it has been a couple of months since the last wave of unbans, enough to let the meta sit and marinate and then we were able to find a mon that could have a spot in the meta, same with Deos.

All in all, i would say this tier is in a great spot, and i think sussing out and freeing mons from ubers just because " they aren't that good in ubers" would be a bad, bad, BAD idea

 

[tpfire]

Does anyone else think z move should be suspect in some way or is that me

 

[Amuetur]

Does anyone else think z move should be suspect in some way or is that me

Take of all time? Explain why pls.

 

[tpfire]

Take of all time? Explain why pls.

It's just my opinion but when you look at many of the mon that have been banned it was due to z move, not to mention it makes many mon in the tier kinda overwealming. Dealing with nasty plot ghold is fine until it nukes you one of it's three z move. It doesn't help that you have no idea what z move it is.

 

[Epicgamergod69]

It's just my opinion but when you look at many of the mon that have been banned it was due to z move, not to mention it makes many mon in the tier kinda overwealming. Dealing with nasty plot ghold is fine until it nukes you one of it's three z move. It doesn't help that you have no idea what z move it is.

Is this implying ghold is somehow broken.
......? Lmfaoooooo. Uh I don't want this taken down so uhh I just want to say the Kinak going insane schizo mode is very in character for you. (Please don't take this down your highnesses)

 

[tpfire]

Is this implying ghold is somehow broken.
......? Lmfaoooooo. Uh I don't want this taken down so uhh I just want to say the Kinak going insane schizo mode is very in character for you. (Please don't take this down your highnesses)

I never said broken I just said overwealming when you have to deal with 3 different nukes.

 

[Comett7778]

It's just my opinion but when you look at many of the mon that have been banned it was due to z move, not to mention it makes many mon in the tier kinda overwealming.

I personally feel like Z-Moves aren’t usually the reason a mon is banned and more often just another set that benefits from what makes the mon already broken. Z-Moves aren’t what made Urshifu-Dark, Magerna Gouging Fire, Palafin and others at the time of their bans, but they were another set that benefited from what made the mons broken. The only Pokemon that Z-Moves broke, from my memory, is Pult. But even then set variety also played a big part in that.

 

[tpfire]

I personally feel like Z-Moves aren’t usually the reason a mon is banned and more often just another set that benefits from what makes the mon already broken. Z-Moves aren’t what made Urshifu-Dark and Palafin at the time of their bans, but they were another set that benefited from what made the mons broken. The only Pokemon that Z-Moves broke, from my memory, is Pult. But even then set variety also played a big part in that.

That's kinda why I hate z move. Just add a extra depth that doesn't do anything else

 

[Comett7778]

That's kinda why I hate z move. Just add a extra depth that doesn't do anything else

That’s what it does. It adds extra depth to the mon. It creates more variety and customization, which is usually good(cough cough Pult cough).

 

[tpfire]

That’s what it does. It adds extra depth to the mon. It creates more variety and customization, which is usually good(cough cough Pult cough).

Most of the time it doesn't. I always find a pokemon a game about pivoting and positioning yourself into a winning play not if that is ghold is ghost z steel z or fight or is that garchomp dragon z or rock z

 

[FayaWizard]

Whenever I think SV OU metagame discussion is bad I look at ND metagame discussion and then feel a little better. The amount of bait y'all falling for would make fishermen jealous.

Anyways, we should look into suspecting Dragapult next. Solid variety of sets between Status, Specs, and Dragon Dance, giving Dragapult the ability to cripple all of checks (mainly Kingambit), and Clear Body allows it to shit all over Landorus-T. Beyond being a Wellspring check, I don't really see how it's helping the tier in any way.