Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[slopcat]

(I am not from an English-speaking country,so if my expression have sth incorrect plz forgive me and point them out.)

Terastallize has already gone for about 3 months.After testing the new environment for a long time I have a simple question:does the DEATH of Tera make National Dex better?

yeah pretty much went from kinda ass to top 3

and i mean SHOULD ho or stall be dominant playstyles? statistically a team that reduces volatility the most will inevitably, (in a balanced metagame) lead to the most wins. a balanced team built by a good player should be more prevalent in the top tiers of the ladder compared to HO, a much riskier style, and stall blows even WITH tera because of just how many prevalent breakers are in the tier.

you've mentioned peaking high on the ladder, but I really just have to wonder how you can play anywhere above 1700 and not IMMEDIATELY realize the stress the tera ban took out of the metagame. also we're seriously complaining about shedinja (ass) eleki (might genuinely be worse) and rapagos (literally the most stable healthy do-no-wrong metagame addition since gsc golem)

also im just flatly disregarding the whole spiel about "its svou but not" because like what are we even saying lol dpp is adv but not!!

Ill always defend Tera.
...............

-enjoy the tier because we've been through hell

are we not.... enjoying the tier? this is literally the best its ever been, there's some cool suspects on the horizon, tournaments feel not completely ruined by random tera swings or cheese ️ and yeah there's some shit in there like dengo or pult but those're getting hammered out and if they're still broken, we'll just ban em again

the level of slop posting recently is insane idk if its the jimothy video getting more tourists on the boards talking about just absolute dogshit like unbanning tera or if its just kinak's 15th crusade to make the metagame objectively worse by any means necessary somehow garnering the karen quoters' support but holy fuck guys lock in a little huh?

 

[Forever1507]

To quote the opening post on the 3rd tera suspect saying why tera was suspected for a 3rd time:

“This unprecedented third test of Scarlet and Violet's generational mechanic has quite a bit of history and related tiering action behind it. Over a year has passed since the last suspect test in June 2023, and almost two years since the first suspect test near the beginning of this generation, and Tera narrowly survived the vote in bothinstances. An extremely substantial change a few months after, the release of DLC2 in December 2023, brought with it a number of Pokemon that quickly became A-tier and S-tier in the Viability Rankings, if not outright banned. Several suspects have occurred since, with Zamazenta, Darkrai, and Gouging Fire all departing the tier; in addition, Kingambit, Dragapult, Sneasler, and Gholdengo were also voted out in the period between the first suspect test and release of DLC2.”

This was only 3 months ago so there’s no reason to be reviving a discussion about tera, it was banned for a reason and afaik it’s never getting unbanned. Also the vote wasn’t even that close, it was nearly a 70% majority.

Tier’s considered to be in a healthier and more enjoyable spot now (by most people), nobody really wants to undo all the things we’ve done over the last few months.

Just because tera’s legal in SVOU metagames doesn’t mean it needs to be legal here, natdex is it’s own tier.

Let's review dlc2 Pokemons:
Rbolt/Iron Crown/Iron Boulder/Hydrapple:good but not broken even with Tera and never be sused.
Gouging Fire:still broken without Tera.
Terapagos:Broken with Tera.But that's just because after tera it just turn into another form.

Obviously none of them become broken just because Terastallize,but the Suspect result is quite different before and after it.

Those other Pokemons you mentioned (Zama,Darkrai,Sneasler etc.) will be banned no matter dlc2 is released or not.

And we've played the NatDex without Tera for already 3 month,that's long enough to test new teams and play ladder.So I think we have the right to call for Tera suspect again.

AND we have a addition option now:Tera Type Preview instead of BAN.

SVOU remains Tera not only because it's SVOU.SSOU also banned Dynmax.

 

[Forever1507]

yeah pretty much went from kinda ass to top 3

and i mean SHOULD ho or stall be dominant playstyles? statistically a team that reduces volatility the most will inevitably, (in a balanced metagame) lead to the most wins. a balanced team built by a good player should be more prevalent in the top tiers of the ladder compared to HO, a much riskier style, and stall blows even WITH tera because of just how many prevalent breakers are in the tier.

you've mentioned peaking high on the ladder, but I really just have to wonder how you can play anywhere above 1700 and not IMMEDIATELY realize the stress the tera ban took out of the metagame. also we're seriously complaining about shedinja (ass) eleki (might genuinely be worse) and rapagos (literally the most stable healthy do-no-wrong metagame addition since gsc golem)

also im just flatly disregarding the whole spiel about "its svou but not" because like what are we even saying lol dpp is adv but not!!

are we not.... enjoying the tier? this is literally the best its ever been, there's some cool suspects on the horizon, tournaments feel not completely ruined by random tera swings or cheese ️ and yeah there's some shit in there like dengo or pult but those're getting hammered out and if they're still broken, we'll just ban em again

the level of slop posting recently is insane idk if its the jimothy video getting more tourists on the boards talking about just absolute dogshit like unbanning tera or if its just kinak's 15th crusade to make the metagame objectively worse by any means necessary somehow garnering the karen quoters' support but holy fuck guys lock in a little huh?

I am giving up arguing when you are trying to deny the rationality of ho and stall.I am sure no consensus will be made between us.

 

[slopcat]

I am giving up arguing when you are trying to deny the rationality of ho and stall.I am sure no consensus will be made between us.

i mean yeah you're sort of spouting objectively incorrect nonsense i think consensus is generally a bit difficult to achieve

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

(by most people), nobody

Homie this Ain't making sense to Grammar,

are we not.... enjoying the tier? this is literally the best its ever been

I wonder how much you have to Hate Tera for the current state of the tier to be even enjoyable to the slightest.


anyways erm Y'all switch to attack more when t e r a c r i s t a l l i s a t i o n comes up so I'll repeat


With Tera Banned, in the 99.99999% possibility We Don't look at Tera seriously again, what breaks palafin?
Most SV OU justifications Went as follow: "mf teratypes, mf BulkupTaunt sets, mf annoying"
In a tier with 172823 Dragons, where Pala canNot change its type, or Even get that much free turns, Why would that mf ever be broken? Rain is MID, So are cb sets. Would it bring anything?
that's not Even a question bro look at Rmoon lmao
If anything, it can click another Prio move resisted by Satan.



And




Gholdengo is a Crazy presence in the tier. It makes It So that Hazards are much harder to deal with, makes Corv abysmal, makes Mmedi abysmal, slows down offense a LOT, Has UNRESISTED STAB+cvg, and a Powerful asf Signature STAB at It, Nasty plot, Recover, like GameFreak pls do LESS freaky next time wtf.

 

[Comett7778]

So my conclusion is: Banning Tera can not make NatDex better.We should consider it more carefully HOW SHOULD WE TREAT TERA.

Ill always defend Tera.

For me and many others in the Anti-Tera crowd there are a combination of 3 things that make Tera broken.

1. Unpredictability

Sure you can guess what Tera’s your opponent can be. But each mon usually has 2-4 options and guessing wrong could lose you the game. This is even worse if you’re fighting something like an Iron Moth where it flips it’s defensive matchup and then can hit you with a Terablast to destroy your check. Even with open team sheets, you still can’t predict when they Tera. They may expect you to go for a resisted or neutral coverage move that hits the Tera type, instead of the super effective one that bounces off the Tera type.

2. It unfairly favors offensive threats

Tera tends to often favor offensive mons rather than defensive ones. The power provided by gaining an extra stab or doubling the power of your current stab is insane. It are out ways the benefits of a defensive mon teraing to better check something. Getting Tapu Lele’s psychic to so that much more to blow by a check is far more valuable the teraing a pex to not lose to bolt, especially when it’s considered that the pex likely now just loses to another mon on your opponent’s team. This as you can imagine makes teams on ladder far more offensively leaning which is good or bad depending on your opinion on that.

3. It causes to many mons to be banned

Tera has been the reason why many mons to be banned. Roaring Moon, Kingambit, Pult(kinda), Terapagos, Gholdengo, Regieleki, Shedinja, Zamazenta, Espathra and Melmetal. In addition to this it stopped the inevitable Wellspring and Kyruem suspects. When you have a list of 11 mons(of the top of my head) that were made broken by Tera, it seems more like Tera is the problem.

you've mentioned peaking high on the ladder, but I really just have to wonder how you can play anywhere above 1700 and not IMMEDIATELY realize the stress the tera ban took out of the metagame.

Just wanna second this. This meta is SO much better without Tera and FAR more enjoyable to play. I’ve been having a blast with it.

 

[Cyber-DJ]

Rapid Fire time!

Regieleki and Shedinja are literally the easiest mons to check in the tier
This is kind of unhealthy ngl
Literally how?

Please never diss Terapagos. Ever. Of all the bans Natdex had post-Tera ban, it was easily the healthiest and least controversial. Turns out, having an alternative to Tusk with the Rapid Spin job is great, especially when it can be a catch-all answer once to any sweeper who wants to ruin your day. As far as I can tell, this little fella added nothing but positives.

Dragapult is mostly fine imo. The only sets i've seen regularly are Boots Pivot, Specs and DD+Z Crystal. Specs is Pursuit-trapped (and, frankly, not all that to me). Boots Pivot is a nice pivot who fills a lot of roles in one slot. Dragon Dance is the only reason I can see someone complaining about Dragapult regularly, which i'm still on the fence about. My takeaway is that DD Sets are a bit hit or miss, since if you fumble the Z, you just have a mid Pult set. It's why i've always fancied the Boots Pivot more. Z-Dance might have some huge highs, but it's hit or miss nature as a sweeper makes me not gravitate towards it. I support a Dragapult test (or at least, won't be bothered if it happens), but i'd much rather it stay since it does a lot for the tier.

Kingambit is just what it is. All i'm surprised about is that it can use Defiant to good success, but nothing crazy otherwise. Way easier to exploit too so not sure what the fuss is about.

 

[Comett7778]

what breaks palafin?

While I do see a world where set up sets are too much, I would be more than happy with a Palafin suspect. It has coverage for most of it’s checks, but due to this does suffer from 4MSS.

 

[slopcat]

I wonder how much you have to Hate Tera for the current state of the tier to be even enjoyable to the slightest.

current state of the tier is pretty good dude idk what ur on about lol yeah pult is pretty broken and lele's annoying but like.... everything else feels pretty on-track to me

i don't know why you'd despise moon (matchup fishy and very volatile nuclear bomb) and then adore tera (turns every game into a "fuck is his kyurem tera fire or electric or is it freezedry dd or loaded dice FUCK"

 

[Cyber-DJ]

While I do see a world where set up sets are too much, I would be more than happy with a Palafin suspect. It has coverage for most of it’s checks, but due to this does suffer from 4MSS.

I've actually talked tp some guys on random Discord servers about Natdex Palafin. What would Palafin do that makes it disgusting and need to be axed again?

Choice Band is prediction reliant, and unlike Urshifu and Wellspring, only has one STAB option. Bulk Up+Taunt is a matchup fish. I'd rather just use those Max Speed+Max HP sets with 3 attacks. Maybe throw in Waterium or Fightium Z for the mix up potential, but that's it really. Also, Ferrothorn exists, who is more than happy switching into Palafin's Flip Turns. No Tera also means it can't boost Jet Punch as much, which sucks major balls for Palafin.

I'm not begging for it, but should a survey or whatever come up, y'all should know who i'm pointing my attention to

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Toxic Ariados idk what Game these pics are so they js look like you were too lazy to write simple phrases.

current state of the tier is pretty good dude idk what ur on about lol yeah pult is pretty broken and lele's annoying but like.... everything else feels pretty on-track to me

i don't know why you'd despise moon (matchup fishy and very volatile nuclear bomb) and then adore tera (turns every game into a "fuck is his kyurem tera fire or electric or is it freezedry dd or loaded dice FUCK"

Current state of the tier is kinda "Alright Ima put 1 of 2 Reliable spinners so it can Eat Shit the second it faces Dengo since I can't resist its moves anywyas. Ima need to Never go on the offensive with My Psychic and ghost types or else Kingambit and Ttar will Mindgame le to hell with Pursuit and Knock. I will pray for the opponent's Dragapult not to put in more work than mine, because what a stupid idea to Blanket it. I will slap boots on all my mons that are not my optional Mega so they actually have to knock to destroy me" when in Tera Meta you could literally find the occasion to get the Game going for you because you thought your team through and put that one Tera Type on your mon so you wouldn't explode on sight of a Threat with Coverage. On another mon I also Put this Tera to offensively pressure my opponents when I catch them lacking. Besides, Tera Kyurem wouldn't be broken if it wasn't a bloody kyurem with 7 bloody sets but ofc the prob is that now it got a funny hat. Genuinely omie it's on Game Freak if they don't Balance shit for Singles. Now instead of Kyu Mindfuck it's Rbolt Mindfuck Because no Rbolt Counter Bar Koko got recovery have recovery and Roost Koko is Miserable. Like yea, Keep Tera Banned, right now is not the right time, but you don't tell me that the tier is more enjoyable now. mfs will say "keep ubers in Ubers" then unban Satan because it looks good and it ain't a problem if you spam Clef. Homie I don't spam Clef. I use Dudunsparce, Arctozolt, Overqwil, Mgarde, Orthworm and Buzzwole. out of all these, 1 does not get Smacked 5 times over By Satan, and it's the one that got Fucked By Gen9's HM limitations. NO moon defender should EVER mention powercreep afffecting the tier bc you LITERALLY voted for it, unless it's to say we should Unrank all mons with less than 650 BST.
Teambuilding is BORING as HELL in no-tera Era, I think we should BAN offensive threats now that tera is gone, because now you aint got freedom in Teambuilding, you choose ONE fun mon and HOMIE YOU'RE FUCKED the 5 slots gon be Busy Taking on the 76 Offensive threats smoking the fuck out of any fun mon.


ban gholdengo, Yard, Lele, Pult, Rmoon, Rbolt, and Waterpon while we're at it because Let us play for god's sake

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Tera tends to often favor offensive mons rather than defensive ones.

Why should the Ferrothorn get rewarded for staying in on the Fire type

Which is it Guys? When it favors def mons Y'all hate it, when it doesn't Y'all hate it. That's js bc One Hates change, not because something is worth banning.


anywys I'll js ask Y'all to SHUT IT about Tera until the next Survey because this ain't leading ANYWHERE if we talk about it Now.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

>> asks us to shut it about Tera
>> is one of the people furthering the conversation and bringing it up

 

[hidin]

Don’t think Tera will be on the next survey after a pretty daunting two years of dealing with it, that seems pretty unwise to undo something that the community strived to be removed. This metagame is pretty good to me and it’s okay that others don’t agree but please don’t entertain unrealistic tiering stuff :<

Rather would talk about Roaring Moon more, because even though it got unbanned (albeit by like 62%) there’s still some controversy around it. Some say it has the potential to do what Darkrai did and eventually be discovered to be unhealthy; is this true?

 

[Comett7778]

I've actually talked tp some guys on random Discord servers about Natdex Palafin. What would Palafin do that makes it disgusting and need to be axed again?

The main problem would be predicting if it’s got ice punch vs close combat vs zen headbut for coverage. It would need all of them on a bulk up set to check what it wants to. It’s still most likely fine, but it could put too much strain on the team builder.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

>> asks us to shut it about Tera
>> is one of the people furthering the conversation and bringing it up

I think you mixed up the chronological order Homie


get satan Back to Uber

Overqwil is fun on Rain, SD Gunk smacks a LOT, Try it out fellas


Ban Pult


I wonder What shitmon Ima build today? Maybe Power Herb Omastar, Maybe Specs Starmie, Maybe SP.def Glastrier, SKy Daddy himself has no right to know

Don’t think Tera will be on the next survey after a pretty daunting two years of dealing with it, that seems pretty unwise to undo something that the community strived to be removed. This metagame is pretty good to me and it’s okay that others don’t agree but please don’t entertain unrealistic tiering stuff :<

Rather would talk about Roaring Moon more, because even though it got unbanned (albeit by like 62%) there’s still some controversy around it. Some say it has the potential to do what Darkrai did and eventually be discovered to be unhealthy; is this true?

the next one then.

Roaring moon? Cleansed More than Half of the Shitmons that used to work as Physical walls, Brought Nothing Positive, Was Unbanned for the lolz so we wouldn't go 3 months without Tiering action after the crazy gen We've had so far.
This Community Chose that DeoS was too much then Unbanned Gen4 Salamence because they felt that one of the two had to be unbanned.

Take action on Z moves. Gen 8 left Game freak greatly unsatisfied with VGC so they introduced Fast Grass types, one with Water absorb and follow me, a dragon electric mon with Electric special sucker Punch and OBSCENE Sp.a and now we out there giving this Mon Dragonium Z.

The main problem would be predicting if it’s got ice punch vs close combat vs zen headbut for coverage. It would need all of them on a bulk up set to check what it wants to. It’s still most likely fine, but it could put too much strain on the team builder.

"Will Waterpon be PR or Superpower" at home:

 

[Ultraman1]

1) Welp, Moon is not overwhelming at all. I kinda disappointed when testing it on ladder by myself (1600~1800 elo). Any well-built teams always have good defensive cores and offensive checks in general so Moon could never sweep everything by its own.

2) And about the joy of using fun mons in team building, Kin-ah, I respect that but the first thing to do is learning the meta carefully and practice to get GOOD in laddering instead of complaining too much, like it’s not worth at all (wasting energy and making the discussion worse tbh). After that, do research and keep testing your own ideas. Some of them will failed, but at least we could learn and appreciate something new and meaningful.

That’s all I want to say. I hope this discussion section will be better.

 

[Dahness]

Don’t think Tera will be on the next survey after a pretty daunting two years of dealing with it, that seems pretty unwise to undo something that the community strived to be removed. This metagame is pretty good to me and it’s okay that others don’t agree but please don’t entertain unrealistic tiering stuff :<

Rather would talk about Roaring Moon more, because even though it got unbanned (albeit by like 62%) there’s still some controversy around it. Some say it has the potential to do what Darkrai did and eventually be discovered to be unhealthy; is this true?

Moon is a chill dude. Has its counters, has mons that wall it, i feel like it has a healthy pressence here. I didn't even saw that much Roaring Moon be used, but i hope to see more usage in the next big tourneys that are coming up this year

 

[Runo]

So many of these posts feel like blatant ragebait or seriously misleading -> five more posts of people taking the bait and it's really infuriating to see happen across several pages. ND Mods don't want to have to step in here if we don't have to but the quality of posting in general has been beyond terrible lately. People are entitled to have "poor" takes (me personally I want Kingambit banned and Magnezone to have more respect here for example), but this insistence to not let up on every argument is absurd. The goal of a discussion is to bring something to light, not to win. Roaring Moon getting unbanned from the metagame is bad to me sure but the tier isn't ruined because of it's presence. People have to know this deep down.

Similarly I truly hope that we don't have an unban conversation until the next survey because Roaring Moon was already a pretty major ask and it seems that Dragapult is incredibly polarizing in the tier right now. There is no sensible unban that is going to make it less polarizing so one is just kicking the can down the road instead of focusing on the present issue. Shitposting about how Chi-Yu and Palafin are balanced is a terrible take at best and borderline misinformation at worst.

Everytime I hear about this thread it's always in a negative light, please do better @regulars.

I don't want to entertain why Tera would be good or bad for the tier right now but the arguments used to indicate that the post-tera metagame is worse are incredibly opinionated and not grounded in reality. Not sure if there is some misinterpretation here but aspects such as Shedinja and Regieleki being legal again, Stall & HO being worse, this tier being closer to SV OU now, they are not considered bad things to most of the community. As hidin said it would be a really poor look to retest something after only 3 months of its removal, I would take it a step further and call it tier suicide from an administrative pov. After a year maybe we could discuss Tera again like we did with past tests but a retest in such a short amount of time passed is kneejerk and asinine.

Clauses such as Tera Preview or "Z-moves for SM legal mons only" are non-starters I'm just gonna say that flat out. If something were to happen then the mechanic as a whole is targeted.

 

[Dahness]

So many of these posts feel like blatant ragebait or seriously misleading -> five more posts of people taking the bait and it's really infuriating to see happen across several pages. ND Mods don't want to have to step in here if we don't have to but the quality of posting in general has been beyond terrible lately. People are entitled to have "poor" takes (me personally I want Kingambit banned and Magnezone to have more respect here for example), but this insistence to not let up on every argument is absurd. The goal of a discussion is to bring something to light, not to win. Roaring Moon getting unbanned from the metagame is bad to me sure but the tier isn't ruined because of it's presence. People have to know this deep down.

Similarly I truly hope that we don't have an unban conversation until the next survey because Roaring Moon was already a pretty major ask and it seems that Dragapult is incredibly polarizing in the tier right now. There is no sensible unban that is going to make it less polarizing so one is just kicking the can down the road instead of focusing on the present issue. Shitposting about how Chi-Yu and Palafin are balanced is a terrible take at best and borderline misinformation at worst.

Everytime I hear about this thread it's always in a negative light, please do better @regulars.

I don't want to entertain why Tera would be good or bad for the tier right now but the arguments used to indicate that the post-tera metagame is worse are incredibly opinionated and not grounded in reality. Not sure if there is some misinterpretation here but aspects such as Shedinja and Regieleki being legal again, Stall & HO being worse, this tier being closer to SV OU now, they are not considered bad things to most of the community. As hidin said it would be a really poor look to retest something after only 3 months of its removal, I would take it a step further and call it tier suicide from an administrative pov. After a year maybe we could discuss Tera again like we did with past tests but a retest in such a short amount of time passed is kneejerk and asinine.

Clauses such as Tera Preview or "Z-moves for SM legal mons only" are non-starters I'm just gonna say that flat out. If something were to happen then the mechanic as a whole is targeted.

magnezone take is legit bro im with u on that one

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Imagine saying the tier has issues and is hyper offense focused, then asking to bring tera back which does nothing but benefit offense with unreal power creep (and said creep which doesn't last 1 turn like z-moves, doesn't restrict item slot or limited to select known mons like mega Evo).

Tera was impossible to build around in Natdex with 100+ OU viable mons (literally), and we should be glad it's gone.

Now, can we start to focus on suspect testing some mons that were banned partially due to tera, for potential unban?

 

[slopcat]

So many of these posts feel like blatant ragebait or seriously misleading -> five more posts of people taking the bait and it's really infuriating to see happen across several pages. ND Mods don't want to have to step in here if we don't have to but the quality of posting in general has been beyond terrible lately. People are entitled to have "poor" takes (me personally I want Kingambit banned and Magnezone to have more respect here for example), but this insistence to not let up on every a

thread savior runo


anyway i think zone isnt awful per se but the fact it cant touch the best steel types in the tier (ghold chiefly, but also crown melm treads tran and has a hard time keeping scizor in one place) when thats its like one thing is just a little sad tbh

sure it beats gambit and ferro (amazing, i love him) but man it sucks that the mons one niche is just not as valuable as before. sure, it lets your pult play however it likes which is quite nice actually but i find its targets too few to be reliable except in VERY specific instances

 

[Toxic Ariados]

@Toxic Ariados idk what Game these pics are so they js look like you were too lazy to write simple phrases.

1. Deltarune/Undertale, my favorite games, play them, it's worth it, totally not advertising.

2. Ever heard of a meme/reaction image, you humorless fiend?

Anyways instead of a take so hot it turns the discussion thread into something like this:

​

Why don't we talk about something else? How about Volcarona.

I think that even without Volcarona being able to Tera to further bolster its power, it has still proved to be a very strong force on many teams. I've started to see a rise in non-boots sets like Sub Leftovers and Bug Z. I never was a fan of those (I doubt you'll catch me using those sets), but I can see why people use them. Swarm can boost the Bug Z to insane levels and Fiery Dance can let you strengthen your power at the flip of a coin. I don't really get the appeal behind Sub Leftovers since it might take you out of Swarm range, but maybe I'm missing something. Anyways, Volcarona seems to have adapted pretty well to a metagame without Tera. So what do you think of the Pokemon right now, and what's your favorite Volcarona set? I personally like the standard QD Fiery Dance set but with a sneaky Hidden Power Rock to dispatch incoming Moltres, Charizards, and other Volcaronas who never expect to go down in one hit.

 

[Comett7778]

1. I've started to see a rise in non-boots sets like Sub Leftovers and Bug Z. I never was a fan of those (I doubt you'll catch me using those sets), but I can see why people use them.

I’ve personally tried it with double removal and its worked out pretty well. I definitely prefer good old boots, but when set up right bugium Z can just annihilate checks. A bulky volc can take out pex with some chip from hp ground.

+2 0 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124 SpD Toxapex: 164-193 (54.1 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It becomes even more disgusting if you get into swarm range.

+2 0 SpA Swarm Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124 SpD Toxapex: 246-289 (81.1 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Toxic Ariados]

Rather would talk about Roaring Moon more, because even though it got unbanned (albeit by like 62%) there’s still some controversy around it. Some say it has the potential to do what Darkrai did and eventually be discovered to be unhealthy; is this true?

I do not think Roaring Moon will be unhealthy, it has very significant weaknesses and a way less versatile movepool. Darkrai had all the coverage in the world, Ice Beam, Sludge Bomb, Psyshock, Focus Blast, etc., there was no limit to the combination of moves you can run. Moon is severely limited by its movepool, and Choiced sets are very simple to play around. Moon hates having to lock into Outrage or suffer a damage drop off from Knock Off, whereas Darkrai could spam Specs Dark Pulse and Focus Blast into 99% of teams and get away with it, or even Trick the Choice item to something like a Toxapex when it doesn't need it anymore. There were also the Z sets that Darkrai had, Z Fight easily blasted through stuff like Ting-Lu and Z Hypnosis was the most annoying thing I've ever faced because it could just run away with the game if it landed at the right time. Moon also has Z sets but I don't think that they are nearly as potent. Unlike Darkrai, Moon is constantly menaced by stuff like Wisp and Intimidate, stuff like Landorus can easily force Moon to blow the Z early, then be forced to risk locking into Outrage to defeat an opposing Dark resist. Darkrai on the other hand, didn't care about Intimidate, and had the coverage to blast away many common checks that it had. I don't think Roaring Moon will ever turn out to be a truly unhealthy presence in the format, it just has too many flaws weighing it down.

I use Dudunsparce, Arctozolt, Overqwil, Mgarde, Orthworm and Buzzwole.

Anyways, I found the reason as to why you're struggling to beat Roaring Moon! Instead of using these guys, use something that can punch Moon's face in like Valiant or a clever lure like Colbur T-Wave/Body Press Slowbro! Or just run Physically defensive U-Turn Lando/Corviknight/Zapdos, the second one beats like 70% of common Moon sets!