yea i reckon this is it. kalos starters get cucked by their mega evolving counterparts -- it's inevitable.
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Pokémon Presents - Pokémon Day 2025 - Pokemon ZA Info & Pokemon Champions Announced
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
It’s a post that also belongs in Unpopular Opinions, given that Mega Evolution is a fan favorite as a lore and mechanic.
With all that being said, I can see why you disliked it as a fanservice. Mega Evolution was given to popular Pokémon first and foremost instead of a genuine attempt of making obsolete Pokémon better, which is where it did rises several issues such as a power creep only matched by SV.
I already liked the little headshots for Pokemon in your menu in Arceus but the addition of Alola dex-esque dynamic poses really kicks things up a notch. Look at Mega Kangaskhan's baby, they're just having fun
In general this is a way better minimalist UI than SV, keeps the modern simplicity while having just enough actual flair
We don’t know much about ZA outside of basic information on the game.
Regarding new megas, I don’t expect that many new megas. Ash Greninja being converted into Mega Greninja (X) with Delphox and Chesnaught are a high probability.
Meganium, Emboar, and Feraligatr are not likely to get Megas imo, especially since it would exclude Typhlosion.
Yveltal and Xerneas will get Mega-like forms but not true megas, just like how Groudon and Kyogre got Primals.
Among regular Pokemon, the most likely mega candidates would be Kalos Pokemon, ones that don’t have regional forms already. Most like the Aces of gym leaders get Megas besides Avalugg.
Another potential Mega would be AZ’s Floette. Either it Mega evolves or Florges-AZ is introduced.
Regarding new megas, I don’t expect that many new megas. Ash Greninja being converted into Mega Greninja (X) with Delphox and Chesnaught are a high probability.
Meganium, Emboar, and Feraligatr are not likely to get Megas imo, especially since it would exclude Typhlosion.
Yveltal and Xerneas will get Mega-like forms but not true megas, just like how Groudon and Kyogre got Primals.
Among regular Pokemon, the most likely mega candidates would be Kalos Pokemon, ones that don’t have regional forms already. Most like the Aces of gym leaders get Megas besides Avalugg.
Another potential Mega would be AZ’s Floette. Either it Mega evolves or Florges-AZ is introduced.
Alola-esc? You mean Orre-esc.
I find that extremely unlikely, the Bond Phenomenon was repeatedly stated to be completely unrelated to Mega Evolution. Also, you mean Mega Greninja Y, Ash Greninja doesn't change type and in both cases of a Pokémon having multiple Megas the X one is the one that changes type and Y stays the same.
It’s about as different to Megas as Primals are to Megas.
What I think will happen is that they’ll use the Ash Greninja design, remove the Ash elements, and add more to its design to compensate for the hair loss. It’ll otherwise have almost the sane stats -10 from its BST and will have a unique ability that interacts with Water Shuriken.
To be fair it doesn't even need a unique ability, Skill Link tecnically exists.... and they could just give it some more multihit moves like they did for Mega Heracross.
I'll be real, I don't get why one would expect Ash Greninja to become Mega Greninja. When has Pokémon ever reused a form 1:1 for something new? This is like saying G-Max Blastoise is just gonna be Mega Blastoise upscaled. Don't see why they'd skip on the opportunity of making a new design for a Pokémon, specially one as popular as Greninja
I wouldn't be surprised if Battle Bond Greninja just becomes a relic of the past like Spiky Pichu. This is a form created solely to promote an anime that ended a decade ago, tied to a character that's no longer a part of the anime and is exclusively obtainable through the demo of a game from 9 years ago on a system that no longer allows you to transfer your Pokémon. Both Horizons and Scarlet&Violet pretty much retconned this form out of existing. I feel like they really don't have any reason to bother incluiding this guy
I wouldn't be surprised if Battle Bond Greninja just becomes a relic of the past like Spiky Pichu. This is a form created solely to promote an anime that ended a decade ago, tied to a character that's no longer a part of the anime and is exclusively obtainable through the demo of a game from 9 years ago on a system that no longer allows you to transfer your Pokémon. Both Horizons and Scarlet&Violet pretty much retconned this form out of existing. I feel like they really don't have any reason to bother incluiding this guy
pretty sure dramps is refering to the alola pokedex previews being pokemon posed in a very dynamic pose
the joyful walker
It does have a similar effect, but Battle Bond increased the BP of that move from 15 to 20. You also have the typical “causes X to fail” effects many form abilities have. Although Skill Link would be better overall.
I expect it, with a redesign, because they got rid of the form in Gen 9 and the form is a lot like a Mega. It looks like a scrapped Mega form and had pretty similar stats to what a Mega Greninja would have.
On one hand, I could see Ashninja becoming Mega Greninja. On the other, its design is so damn *boring* I'd rather it just got memory-holed for all eternity.
I am also weirdly skeptical that we'll get new Megas in this game.
I am also weirdly skeptical that we'll get new Megas in this game.
If it's still "can't miss", maybe the sphere's trajectory bends following the target as the sphere just follows the line. They can make the sphere's speed down the line increase if the line gets longer.
PokeMatter.
I've been wanting to join in on the Starter speculation... but I got nothing or what I wanted to say has been said (BTW, I support what ausma said concerning the Z-A Starters just getting new Final Evos while the Kalos Starters are getting Megas and handed out as "Second Starters").
A thing that's especially stumping me is how they would add a twist to the Final Evos. Cause that's the thing with Regional Variants, they usually have a twist to the Pokemon which explains or relates to the new design (and Typing).
We'll take Chikorita who we now see gets Disarming Voice, so speculation is the new Meganium being Grass/Fairy. But the thing is, Meganium is sort of already a fairy-like Pokemon, or at least the thing it can do: The aroma from its flower calms aggression (it uses this in battle to weaken opponent's blows) & makes you feel refreshed and its breath can revive dead plants and make them healthy. So, what would a Grass/Fairy Meganium do to twist this?
Feraligatr is also simple like that: It has massive & powerful jaws it uses to intimate opponents and, though has to walk on all fours because it can't support its weight out of the water, has powerful hind legs it can use to charge at the opponent full speed.
Emboar's dex entries I feel has some ways it can be twisted, though pigs & boars are native to France and thus featured in plenty of stories and symbolism.
Like, whatever GF have planned I'm sure makes sense, but this is a scenario where it may not be easy if at all possible to guess.
If I gotta pick I guess I'd go with Lockstin's thoughts.
- For Meganium he goes into it's nice aroma is likely why it would be Grass/Fairy and goes into perfume and how during the Black Death the plague doctors would fill their masks with aromatic herbs to deal with the smell of death & decay; so Plague Doctor Meganium? Decrease its Physical stats and put them into Special: 80/52/70/113/130/80//525.
- Then for Emboar he talks about pigs importance in French cuisine especially pork fat (which was also used to make candles), so suggests making it a pig chef with a stove design and have it be Fire/Steel or Fire/Dark. Swap the Special stats and lower the Speed & HP for higher Defense: 90/123/105/65/100/45//528.
- Finally for Feraligatr he suggests either Water/Poison based on the sewers (being slimmer to fit through the tight spaces) or Water/Ghost based on the catacombs... and suggesting it would be fashionably dressed in bones cause crocodile leather is a popular fashion material *shrugs*. It'll stick with the Water/Poison sewer gator. Slimmer means less defense but more Speed: 85/105/80/69/73/118//530.
Let's be honest, as long as they have all the fully evolved Pokemon that should be more than good enough to start with. Now I know thanks to Eviolite there's a handful of defensive (or at least have good enough defense) NVE Pokemon that they'd also should have, but they can probably make due without most first stage and middle stages. At least at the start to help with server stress, because I do believe all Pokemon should be available eventually (and maybe throw in modes like Little Cup or "Mid Stage Only" to give those Pokemon some spotlight).
Oh, right, and not just those, any alt battling mechanics they had over the years: Wonder Launcher, Triple Battles, Rotation Battles, Inverse Battles, Sky Battles, Battle Royal...
... Pokemon Contest?
At 0:46 in the extended look I think you can see a Furisode Girl (the black furisode one, obviously).
Maybe planning on doing something with them in Gen 10? It would technically be Gen IV's 20th Anniversary too (and Gen VII's 10th, but that's beside the point).
Well let's keep in mind Xerneas and Yveltal is likely going to make an appearance.
The Redevelopment Project is actually turning all of Lumiose City into a new Ultimate Weapon, where it'll use Yveltal's power to suck out the life of the surrounding environment and use Xerneas's to turn Lumiose City into an immortal utopia. (Or maybe they'll subvert expectation: they'll supe up Xerneas so that it overflows the surrounding environment with life and then use Yveltal's life draining power to start absorbing all that extra life energy and feed it into the city; eitherway same effect except now the outside world is an evergrowing forest instead of wasteland). It'll reveal that someone (not saying Jett, but she is a (likely very rich) CEO...) was a former member of Team Flare and agreed with Lysandre's vision but not in the same way he wanted it.
And thus Zygarde is here to stop it this time.
And thus Zygarde is here to stop it this time.
Why specifically Malva?
Ugh, so stupid not to have Abilities.
Like, I can understand to simply things only having each Pokemon have one Ability, but to completely remove them but then give the Pokemon who's gimmick involve their Ability have a special trait just emphasizes how dumb it was and will be if they do it again. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, in Legends: Arceus they had to specially program Cherrim to change forms (& have an Attack boost) when its sunny and Regigigas has a special status condition that cuts its Attack and Speed for 5 turns. And if you're wondering, if they don't add Abilities in Z-A they would need to give Aegislash a special trait which mimics Stance Change. Though, while technically they don't have to do this with the Mega Pokemon, there are a few Mega Pokemon who had their Ability baked into their design and miss it if they don't have it (as we saw in Let's Go which also left out Abilities for stupid reasons).
Here are my current predictions for returning characters from XY.
Hex Maniac: Wait there, it can't just be ANY Hex Maniac. It has to be either the ghost who's waiting for someone or Mega Moo Moo Milk.
Emma: Funny, I didn't see her in the trailer.
Malva: Are we sure she's a Lumiose citizen? Because I also originally thought so, but when I checked there's nothing really linking her to Lumiose City aside knowing the secret entrance under Flare Cafe. Granted, she likely worked at Lysandre Labs, but for all we know the Holocaster New Station could be somewhere else.
Tierno: Nothing against Tierno, but "too important"? No, not really. Would be nice to know what's been happening with him, but I don't think anything will be missing if they were to leave him out, especially since the protags don't know him. For all we know Tierno left for Hoenn or Sinnoh to compete in Pokemon Contests.
Furisode Girl: Is that suppose to be a specific one? Anyway, as I pointed out, there is one in the background of one of the trailers (also the black furisode one if that matters).
"Probably At Least One Of These": Well if one member of their group show up I don't know why the others wouldn't, kind of a package deal. If the Flare Scientists return it's likely because Lysandre is back, otherwise, unless they want to expand on their characters, I don't see why they'll be back (since they're wanted criminals). As for the Chatelaines, either they pull a ORAS and reveal they opened up a Battle Maison (or at least brought their battling styles) to Lumiose City or they're just not going to show up. Once again, maybe they could expand on their personalities outside of their job, but if they do that then honestly they have no excuse not to bring back every single notable Kalos NPC and give them something to do.
"Probably Not": Why not? Because they're not popular? I feel when it comes to the Elite Four and Gym Leaders who aren't Clemont (this includes Ramos, if they haven't killed off Professor Oak or Agatha yet... Plus he's in Masters EX), it's fair game for all of them.
Interesting choice of clothing the trainers are wearing.
I shall call this style "Sporty Nerd Chic".
Speaking of Jett relating to other characters, some people have made the following observation:
Of course this is XY Clemont & Bonnie, depending on how much time has passed they're older now. Depending on how old Jett could be their grandmother or mother.
BTW, speaking of Jett's ring, upon closer inspection the ring is or is shaped like a hex nut.
Well your average Wild Pokemon isn't supposed to give you that hard of a time, given the lowest AI level; I think even Legendary Pokemon select their Moves at random.
Putting aside the weird outburst about the use of Spanish English (what kind of strange mind do you have to want an entire language to become extinct?) I think there’s a couple of copium users and copium sharers in this thread.
Or - something which occurred to me yesterday - maybe we won’t get ride pokemon…at all.
- We’re not getting Ash Greninja. It’s over, accept it.
- Kalos starters not being in the trailer for a Kalos adventure isn’t entirely weird, I don’t remember PLA having the sinnoh trio front and centre in theirs until later on in the hype cycle
Or - something which occurred to me yesterday - maybe we won’t get ride pokemon…at all.
I don’t really recall the Sinnoh starters being front-and-center for Legends: Arceus at all. In the game itself they’re just wild Pokémon, and to my memory, the trailers basically treated them that way.
Well, I think we at least need something for traversing water, as the trailer shows wild Pokémon in the waterways.
Anything beyond that is interesting to think about. This isn’t the harsh, mountainous wilderness of Hisui or the wide-open natural expanse of Paldea; it’s an enclosed, tightly-packed modern city. Given we already know that we can use teleport pads to get onto rooftops, and our Rotom Phone to hop across them, I’m not sure how many more traversal options would even need to be offloaded onto (a) Ride Pokémon.
Water/Ghost for Feraligatr would shock me right after Skeledirge. Water/Dark just feels right for Feraligatr but eh they already did that with Samurott plus Greninja’s right but who knows. Emboar I have absolutely no idea. I think every fan of Pokemon would just be happy to see it not Fighting.
Assuming that they get Mega Evolutions and not regional forms (I personally also see Mega Evolution becoming a mainstay in the games going forward, I think they just wanted to play around with other things for a bit and also work out how they would "balance" it - I think VGC is going to definitely focus around rotation of mechanics, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dynamax return once it all transfers over to Champions)
But anyway, I could see Feraligatr possibly being Water/Ground - Water/Dark seems obvious, but having just got Samurott it feels uninspired. Ground may just push it into being a Water-type Krookodile, though. They could push the Jaw power lore and potentially go Water/Steel?
Meganium definitely leans towards Grass/Fairy, but Grass/Rock could be possible due to its dinosaur origins - and Emboar could even revert to pure Fire for a Mega, considering its dex entries always mention its beard of fire, they could make its wreath/scarf more cape-like and have it appear more noble? Just a large wall of fire (That is bogged down by a horrible base stat distribution)
They could of course play up the pigs flying thing and give Emboar wigs of fire lol - I just don't want any repeated typings from the generation prior.
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Watched the trailer again and the battle style has got me seriously hyped, genuinely excited to see how this plays out.
But anyway, I could see Feraligatr possibly being Water/Ground - Water/Dark seems obvious, but having just got Samurott it feels uninspired. Ground may just push it into being a Water-type Krookodile, though. They could push the Jaw power lore and potentially go Water/Steel?
Meganium definitely leans towards Grass/Fairy, but Grass/Rock could be possible due to its dinosaur origins - and Emboar could even revert to pure Fire for a Mega, considering its dex entries always mention its beard of fire, they could make its wreath/scarf more cape-like and have it appear more noble? Just a large wall of fire (That is bogged down by a horrible base stat distribution)
They could of course play up the pigs flying thing and give Emboar wigs of fire lol - I just don't want any repeated typings from the generation prior.
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Watched the trailer again and the battle style has got me seriously hyped, genuinely excited to see how this plays out.
I’m leaning towards regional forms just because I don’t think they’ll pass up this chance to give Greninja a mega. Which, btw, they are not gonna just reuse the Ash Greninja design for. They even retconned that out of existence in the anime so I think they just want to forget about it.
For types… they’ve pretty consistently stuck with Dark, Ghost and Fighting for the last couple of generations, plus one instance each of Fairy and Psychic, so I don’t think they care THAT much about repeating types. I think they’ll just try to avoid direct overlap with the Kalos starters.
My guess would be Grass/Fairy, Fire/Dark, and Water/Fighting (/Ghost). I’d much rather they went with something a bit more interesting though.
For types… they’ve pretty consistently stuck with Dark, Ghost and Fighting for the last couple of generations, plus one instance each of Fairy and Psychic, so I don’t think they care THAT much about repeating types. I think they’ll just try to avoid direct overlap with the Kalos starters.
My guess would be Grass/Fairy, Fire/Dark, and Water/Fighting (/Ghost). I’d much rather they went with something a bit more interesting though.
For Legends Z-A you’re absolutely right, especially since it’s looking like abilities won’t be in the game. A Battle Bond Greninja transferred into that game will be pretty much identical to one that has Torrent or Protean.
However, Champions could definitely restore the Gen 7 Battle Bond and allow Ash Greninja to be used, alongside a hypothetical Mega Greninja. Generally speaking, Champions can easily alleviate concerns about forms or gimmicks being retained moving forward. For example, Gen 10 won’t have Terastal, but the Stellar type and Tera-specific forms of Ogerpon and Terapagos will still be usable in Champions. As such, Ash Greninja can definitely return via Champions.
Before learning about Champions, I would have said that the Gen 10 games were likely going to include Megas if any new ones are introduced in Legends Z-A, the same way that the Hisuian additions were all included in Gen 9 so they would have a proper debut in traditional battling, but not anymore. I think Champions is meant to keep all the Pokémon forms that are tied to generational mechanics so that the traditional titles are not pressured to include them.
On the Starter form debate, the point of "they couldn't in X/Y Kalos" could be handwaved by the fact that those starters weren't naturally occurring in Kalos, as compared to the Hisui starters having wild appearances via Mass Outbreaks (excluding the explicitly non-native Distortions). SO on that front the excuse is they only just started appearing in Kalos now as native species to be affected.
Additionally, not every regional variant is strictly a "survive or die" adaption, some can simply be a byproduct or an exploitation of their environment such as Hisuian Goodra's Shell (when Kalosian Goodra seems well-equipped to survive Wetlands already) or Galarian Weezing evolving to feed on factory-air pollutants rather than on trash as Kantonian does (and I doubt garbage is any less common in Galar than other industrial regions such as Unova). Perhaps the energy rich environment permits the LA starters to develop physiology that lets them fill a different niche or better compete for resources (EX: Meganium normally calms other creatures and is docile, perhaps a Fairy Typing and more assertive energy would let it actively defend against rather than pacify more aggressive Pokemon such as Hydreigon).
The Big Brain idea: Give Meganium/Emboar/Feraligatr Regional forms, but then Megas for their original incarnations just to mess with people (or get them via something like gifts/Distortion equivalents).
I think that's a cost sign. Remember how the Mega Gauge is divided in 4 sections with a slow drain?
Each attack will cost a chunk of the gauge and you won't be able to just sit on it either because of the passive drain.
Seems like a pretty hefty limiter for Megas, but considering their power boost, it might be fair.
I'm more curious about whether abilities will be in or not.
I don't believe they would limit themselves by giving only Gen 6 starters a mega. They could give a mega to both PLZA starters and Gen 6 starters, so regional forms wouldn't be required at all in order for them to get a spotlight.
I also think Ash Greninja could become Greninja-Mega, but there are still some ways in which Ash and Ash Greninja physically ressemble, and I feel like GF would rather re-design Ash Greninja to get rid of them.
In addition, it seems to me that the Bond Phenomenon will be further explored in the future as it is still an interesting concept (kind of mega + moves whose BP and effect change + lore wise related to a certain character), which has got a lot of potential and connects to the very leitmotiv from the series: bond between humans and mons.
And I mean, Floette Eternal was also removed from in-game data in SV and yet we are seeing it again in PLZA - where it will be catchable for sure, in some way. So, removing Ash Greninja doesn't mean it won't be a thing anymore, even if the Battle Bond ability has been retconned. If I were to guess, it will be retconned not to be named Ash Greninja but Bond Greninja at some point, and more Bond Pokémon may be introduced.
GF really doesn't like this kind of massive retconning - an entire mechanic would be removed from existence.
Could you elaborate more what are those recton-inducing additions are?
Much as I doubt they’ll just reuse the Greninja-Ash design anyways
I just don’t see it happening as a retcon for mega evolution. Maybe they will make the battle bond version available, but at this point it represents a promotional pokemon for the demo of a game from nearly a decade ago, with no recent use in gameplay or similar.