Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons

[Eyeos]

It's been over two months since I last posted a personal VR and the metagame has gone through multiple small phases since. I've tried out more various Pokémon on the viability rankings, including some in the lower ranks, teams have more variety now thanks to spam teams falling off, and new records have been made from people rotating around all sorts of different teams. I've probably seen more games from other players than played games myself after February, but have still managed to play maybe 100ish games since?

I've made a lot of changes to the VR to accommodate to this. To be honest, figuring out the ranks below S was quite difficult for me this time, and I've noticed the game still has quite a ton of room to be developed. I've destroyed the ladder with sets almost nobody else ever runs and realized if more of those sets were around, or even similar sets but slightly altered in some way, this metagame would appear to look quite different than it is now. Well anyway, here is what I have in store now. I'll plan to make a post explaining plenty of these ranks, especially the ones that seem most questionable (like why I placed Pikachu at B and why I placed Mega Scizor so low on the Wonder Guard Viability Rankings)

Art by BlueberryBlanket​

Welcome to the Pure Hackmons Viability Rankings. This is one of the many resources made to help players determine what can be considered viable in the metagame. These rankings are placed in alphabetical order. Any ability ranked is placed last for convenience. Anyone is free to put their thoughts on any Pokémon and debate on whether or not they need a rank change as long as they are reasonable. Provide clear evidence for reasons why a Pokémon should have a change in rank, and be civil about it. We want what we can believe to be closer to fact than subjective opinions.

S Rank
S

Chansey

Mewtwo-Mega-X

‎ Zygarde-Complete

Wonder Guard

Wonder Guard Viability Rankings

S Rank
S

Audino-Mega

A Rank
A+

Greninja-Ash

Hoopa-Unbound

‎ Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

Slowbro-Mega

A

Arceus

Gyarados-Mega

Meloetta

Oranguru

‎ Regigigas

Slaking

A-

Kartana

Mewtwo-Mega-X

Muk-Alola

B Rank
B+

Celesteela

Groudon-Primal

‎Ferrothorn

Magearna

Umbreon

B

Bisharp

Gardevoir-Mega

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite

Houndoom-Mega

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Sableye-Mega

Scizor-Mega

Type: Null

B-

Cresselia

Gengar-Mega

Kyogre-Primal

C

Blissey

Chansey

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane

Pheromosa

D

Aggron-Mega

Swampert-Mega

‎ Lopunny-Mega

Steelix-Mega

S-

Blissey

Groudon-Primal

A Rank
A+

Doublade

Greninja-Ash

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Steelix-Mega

A

Gengar-Mega

Kartana

Regigigas

Slaking

Solgaleo

A-

Deoxys-Attack

Diancie-Mega

Lopunny-Mega

Lunala

‎ Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane

Rayquaza-Mega

Slowbro-Mega

B Rank
B+

Arceus

Aggron-Mega

Celesteela

Deoxys-Speed

Gyarados-Mega

Metagross-Mega

Necrozma-Ultra

Type: Null

Yveltal

B

Banette-Mega

Cresselia

Giratina

Giratina-Origin

Guzzlord

Kyogre-Primal

Kyurem-Black

Pikachu

B-

Gardevoir-Mega

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite

Bisharp

Ho-Oh

Lugia

Registeel

C Rank

Articuno

Entei

Groudon @ Red Orb

Pheromosa

Sceptile-Mega

Tyranitar-Mega

D Rank

Avalugg

Froslass

Shedinja

Blacklist - Do not discuss putting these on the VR
Wonder Guard:
Any pure Fire-type for their Burn Up sets.

Explanation

Pure Fire-types in the metagame don't stand very well as Wonder Guards as they for the most part are outclassed by other possible Wonder Guards such as Primal Groudon and Alolan Muk for having similar but less weaknesses, and usually higher defensive stats. However, the main strategy of a Pure Fire-type Pokemon with Wonder Guard is to utilize the move Burn Up, a move that removes a Pokemon's Fire-type after successfully hitting. With many viable Wonder Guards in the metagame, these types of Pokemon should find it hard to be able to successfully hit an attack, and even if they do, they can still be forced to switch either by phazing or by matchup, causing them to have to redo their main strategy. It is also worth noting that the ability of Wonder Guards to carry four moves in this metagame is a gift. Most of them use their four moves in order to support, recover themselves, boost stats, inflict status, and/or throw hazards. Their type combination is good enough to handle on their own without the absolute need to provide a move to get rid of their type. Pure Fire-type Pokemon who follow the Burn Up strategy can also struggle more heavily against Mold Breaker/Turboblaze/Teravolt Pokemon or Pokemon that have Photon Geyser or Moongeist Beam, making the entire point of the strategy lose any value it had.
Post to stack on explanation: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pure-hackmons.3656851/page-3#post-8375359

I disagree very heavily with this vr you made for multiple reasons and I think it’s honestly not very good at all.

For the wg vr I think ash greninja and hoopa are not A+ material, I believe they aren’t as good as they used to be because they don’t have all that much power and their big weakness has become more and more relevant. I also think you heavily underestimating meloetta by putting it in A and also overestimating arceus and oranguru by putting them in A. I don’t know why you put mmx in A- because it hasn’t shown much potential at all and is just not a good wg.

For the regular VR I do have a problem with putting Groudon primal in S- because while Groudon is good it is not S-material and not as good as you act. Equally I think you act like ash greninja is way better than it actually is as of current it’s rarely seen and it’s no guard and water bubble sets are nothing notable. I also disagree that gengar, kartana and slacking are A I think they are well deserving of A+. Solgaleo is most definitely not A material and should be lower. I’m a little confused about your lunala placement because you seem to be a big critic of it yet you put it in A- I also think dawn wings isn’t that good outside of wg. I’m also not sure why you ranked regular Groudon I don’t think it’s notable enough to be ranked because it’s only really seen on Groudon spam which isn’t very popular anymore.

Overall this vr feels very outdated and it looks like a vr somebody would make the very early stages of pure hackmons so I’m not sure why you ranked everything like this and Ransei I expected something better then this since it’s a very bad.

 

[Child of Night]

I’m new to this meta why is deo s in a- when it’s so good with the no guard set

Deoxys Speed is pretty bad into most good teams as anyone who knows anything about Pure Hackmons is going to prepare for it which isn't even that hard. 2 WGs not weak to OHKO moves is the standard but there are some other more niche options that you could run like Froslass and Articuno since they are immune to the two most common OHKO moves (Sheer Cold and Fissure). It might seem strong to such a new player like yourself but Deoxys Speed isn't really worth using against good players and will probably only work well in low ladder. Hope this helps! Btw, Deoxys speed is actually B rank, I don't know where you got the info that its A-? Maybe you were looking at an older post...

 

[mayonnaise. mayo.]

Deoxys Speed is pretty bad into most good teams as anyone who knows anything about Pure Hackmons is going to prepare for it which isn't even that hard. 2 WGs not weak to OHKO moves is the standard but there are some other more niche options that you could run like Froslass and Articuno since they are immune to the two most common OHKO moves (Sheer Cold and Fissure). It might seem strong to such a new player like yourself but Deoxys Speed isn't really worth using against good players and will probably only work well in low ladder. Hope this helps! Btw, Deoxys speed is actually B rank, I don't know where you got the info that its A-? Maybe you were looking at an older post...

eyeos did, this was back before he really dove into the hackmons wormhole

 

[Child of Night]

eyeos did, this was back before he really dove into the hackmons wormhole

Yeah the post is a joke

 

[Guysmash]

Hi, just warning people that I changed Chansey’s set on my sample submission

 

[Yourself]

​

How To Build Balance (with packs!)


This will contain a tutorial on how to build a balance team with with Imposter/Innards Out and packs with sets you can build with. There's not really any guides on team building and the Setpedia is also outdated so I thought this could be helpful.

Building a Balance Team

The structure I'll be showing you how to make is Prankster + Wonder Guard + Wonder Guard or Fur Coat/Magic Bounce + Wall Breaker + Speed Control/Priority or Offensive Wonder Guard + Blob (Imposter/Innards Out). For example, it could look like:

or

There is some things your team will generally need however:
-You need 2 Wonder Guards (Sturdy counts as it blocks OHKO moves too) because of the existance of No Guard. These can either be 2 defensive Wonder Guards or you could run 1 defensive Wonder Guard and 1 offensive Wonder Guard so you are free to run a Fur Coat or Magic Bounce Pokèmon. If one of your Wonder Guard Pokémon is weak to ground, use Innards Out or you will lose to fissure.
-Make sure all of your offensive Pokémon are Imposter proofed. This means that you have an answer to your own Pokémon so when Imposter comes in you don't get sweeped. For example, use a plate or memory on your MMX so it can't hit one of your Pokémon, like a Flame Plate so you can hit opposing Doublade but an Imposter can't hit your own. You can also just have a Pokémon that hard walls one of your offensive Pokémon.
-A Huge Power Kartarna answer (Prankster steel, 4x steel resist, Innards Out, or Choice Scarf Blissey + a way to break it's sash) as other wise it can just sweep you.
-A Harvest Slaking answer (a move like Core Enforcer/Taunt/Magic Room/ect, Innards Out, or just generally a way you can force it out)
-A form of hazards (usually Stealth Rocks), Defog, and Aromatherapy (Aromatherapy can be put on Innards Out if needed).
-At the very least a good MMX switch in (e.g. Wonder Guard Slowbro Mega, Fur Coat Doublade, possibly Prankster Steelix) as otherwise a Choice Band MMX can win by spamming Photon Geyser, if you struggle against MMX consider Innards Out. A true way to wall MMX is unrealistic as it can run coverage for anything but Fur Coat Doublade is the most consistent wall.
-Forms of priority and speed control (e.g. a FakeSpeed Slaking, First Impression on MMX or Choice Scarf Parental Bond Gengar Mega). If you are struggling here consider Choice Scarf Imposter Blissey.
-And finally, don't auto lose to Innards Out. This is done with either multiple physical attackers/double Huge Power or if you have to anti Innards tech like minimum attack U-Turns or Sludge Bomb on Parental Bond Gengar Mega. If you have a team where your main wall breaker is a physical attacker and it's partnered with a special attacker that can't win on it's own you are probably vunarable to Innards Out.

This doesn't have to be done in any paticular order but I suggest you do it in the order I show each Pokémon. Use the packs at the bottom of the post if you want. Remember that 2 Wonder Guards (Sturdy counts) are required.

Wallbreaker

Here I chose MMX, it's the best wall breaker in the game and can run coverage for literally anything whilst being easy to Imposter proof and it can fit priority (First Impression). Often times MMX is the best choice and you'd be missing out by not using it. Other examples can include Heracross Mega and Mold Breaker Primal Groudon.

Second Offensive Pokémon

Here you can do multiple things. You could add a speed control/priority Pokémon like Choice Scarf Parental Bond Gengar or FakeSpeed Slaking. You can also run an offensive Wonder Guard Pokémon allowing you to fit a Fur Coat or Magic Bounce Pokémon in your defensive core. Here I chose Wonder Guard Necrozma Dawn Wings as a strong cleaner that is also 1 of my 2 Wonder Guards freeing up slots later. Again you can use the packs for this.

Defensive Core

Here you will have either 1 defensive Wonder Guard or 2 depending on whether you are running an offensive Wonder Guard. On these Pokémon you can fit Defog, Aromatherapy, and Stealth Rocks. I ran Fur Coat Doublade + Wonder Guard Audino Mega as due to running Dawn Wings I was able to fit Fur Coat Doublade which is the most consistent MMX answer and a strong physical wall, and Mega Audino who is my second Wonder Guard that supports the team and can wall some Moongeist Beam users as well as pair nicely with Doublade. You can use the packs for defensive Wonder Guards, Fur Coats and Magic Bouncers here and I also put some defensive core pairs at the bottom of the post so you can use Pokémon that pair well together.

A Prankhaze

Prankster Pokémon (in paticular Zygarde-Complete) can function as anti setup with Haze and just wall a good majority of the game. Zygarde-Complete solves a majority of physical attackers with Reflect and close to every special attacker that doesn't explicitly run coverage (ice moves) for it. In my opinion, the main reason you would run another Prankhaze like Steelix Mega over Zygarde-Complete is to answer Huge Power Kartarna. You can make balance teams without a Prankhaze (they usually run Innards Out) but Zygarde-Complete is a very consistent choice for balance teams and as this post is mostly directed at new players I think it's a very good idea you run it. There is a Prankhaze pack too.

Imposter or Innards Out

Balance teams without one of the blobs are possible but most good teams will have one and again they're very consistent choices and they both patch up team holes. Innards Out can be used as a Harvest Slaking answer and if your team struggles against things like Kartarna or MMX then Innards out can solve that. You can also fit moves like Aromatherapy here if you are struggling to them else where, you can fit secondary hazards on it, you can fit Magic Coat to answer Comaphase on it and Innards Out can function as a secondary special wall. If you don't need any of that you should run Imposter. If you are lacking priority or a revenge killer Choice Scarf Imposter can help with that and Imposter is incredibly helpful as it can scout sets, function as a revenge killer, function as anti setup as it copies boosts and save you from auto lose matchups. I chose Choice Scarf Blissey here as I wanted a revenge killer as I only had MMX with First Impression and it can also let me play around Huge Power Kartana.

Wonder Guard (And Fur Coat) Pairs

I thought this would be a good idea so new players can use Pokémon that actually pair well together and not just put random things together. Remember, only use a Wonder Guard + Fur Coat/Magic Bounce Pair if you already have an offensive Wonder Guard, and if one of your Wonder Guards is weak to ground use Innards Out.

+

+

Make Doublade Sturdy unless you have an offensive Wonder Guard

+

+

or

(Scizor is terrible)

+

+

+

or

(Scizor is terrible)

+

Already mentioned lol

+

+

+

+

Already mentioned lol

The Packs

And finally, I will now show you the packs. They have sets for every role (e.g. Wallbreaker and Offensive Wonder Guard) and you can use them when building. The Setpedia is outdated so I thought it would be helpful. I apologise for the nicknames it was 2am and the slashes and spaces disappeared from some of the moves too so I'm sorry about that. If you want a set to be added or changed let me know (I might end up debating with you though).

-Wallbreakers https://pokepast.es/fa6262e457909d05
-Offensive Wonder Guards https://pokepast.es/60d34199d55073a9
-Speed Control and Priority https://pokepast.es/05e22b21e4ee66ef
-Defensive Wonder Guards https://pokepast.es/491f76ae93da1d08
-Fur Coats https://pokepast.es/94de94a254c3df2c
-Prankster https://pokepast.es/f5019ac0fcb35fd4
-Magic Bouncers https://pokepast.es/e830aa67379b2dab
-No Guard https://pokepast.es/27e03d93b8462fd0
-Shadow Tag https://pokepast.es/375e64484881e177 (can someone correct mhera set i've like never seen it and i found set on ph cord)
-Huge Power Shell Smash Sweepers https://pokepast.es/af0d2adf454aea3a

 

[aidan amoongus]

​

How To Build Balance (with packs!)


This will contain a tutorial on how to build a balance team with with Imposter/Innards Out and packs with sets you can build with. There's not really any guides on team building and the Setpedia is also outdated so I thought this could be helpful.

Building a Balance Team

The structure I'll be showing you how to make is Prankster + Wonder Guard + Wonder Guard or Fur Coat/Magic Bounce + Wall Breaker + Speed Control/Priority or Offensive Wonder Guard + Blob (Imposter/Innards Out). For example, it could look like:

or

There is some things your team will generally need however:
-You need 2 Wonder Guards (Sturdy counts as it blocks OHKO moves too) because of the existance of No Guard. These can either be 2 defensive Wonder Guards or you could run 1 defensive Wonder Guard and 1 offensive Wonder Guard so you are free to run a Fur Coat or Magic Bounce Pokèmon. If one of your Wonder Guard Pokémon is weak to ground, use Innards Out or you will lose to fissure.
-Make sure all of your offensive Pokémon are Imposter proofed. This means that you have an answer to your own Pokémon so when Imposter comes in you don't get sweeped. For example, use a plate or memory on your MMX so it can't hit one of your Pokémon, like a Flame Plate so you can hit opposing Doublade but an Imposter can't hit your own. You can also just have a Pokémon that hard walls one of your offensive Pokémon.
-A Huge Power Kartarna answer (Prankster steel, 4x steel resist, Innards Out, or Choice Scarf Blissey + a way to break it's sash) as other wise it can just sweep you.
-A Harvest Slaking answer (a move like Core Enforcer/Taunt/Magic Room/ect, Innards Out, or just generally a way you can force it out)
-A form of hazards (usually Stealth Rocks), Defog, and Aromatherapy (Aromatherapy can be put on Innards Out if needed).
-At the very least a good MMX switch in (e.g. Wonder Guard Slowbro Mega, Fur Coat Doublade, possibly Prankster Steelix) as otherwise a Choice Band MMX can win by spamming Photon Geyser, if you struggle against MMX consider Innards Out. A true way to wall MMX is unrealistic as it can run coverage for anything but Fur Coat Doublade is the most consistent wall.
-Forms of priority and speed control (e.g. a FakeSpeed Slaking, First Impression on MMX or Choice Scarf Parental Bond Gengar Mega). If you are struggling here consider Choice Scarf Imposter Blissey.
-And finally, don't auto lose to Innards Out. This is done with either multiple physical attackers/double Huge Power or if you have to anti Innards tech like minimum attack U-Turns or Sludge Bomb on Parental Bond Gengar Mega. If you have a team where your main wall breaker is a physical attacker and it's partnered with a special attacker that can't win on it's own you are probably vunarable to Innards Out.

This doesn't have to be done in any paticular order but I suggest you do it in the order I show each Pokémon. Use the packs at the bottom of the post if you want. Remember that 2 Wonder Guards (Sturdy counts) are required.

Wallbreaker

Here I chose MMX, it's the best wall breaker in the game and can run coverage for literally anything whilst being easy to Imposter proof and it can fit priority (First Impression). Often times MMX is the best choice and you'd be missing out by not using it. Other examples can include Heracross Mega and Mold Breaker Primal Groudon.

Second Offensive Pokémon

Here you can do multiple things. You could add a speed control/priority Pokémon like Choice Scarf Parental Bond Gengar or FakeSpeed Slaking. You can also run an offensive Wonder Guard Pokémon allowing you to fit a Fur Coat or Magic Bounce Pokémon in your defensive core. Here I chose Wonder Guard Necrozma Dawn Wings as a strong cleaner that is also 1 of my 2 Wonder Guards freeing up slots later. Again you can use the packs for this.

Defensive Core

Here you will have either 1 defensive Wonder Guard or 2 depending on whether you are running an offensive Wonder Guard. On these Pokémon you can fit Defog, Aromatherapy, and Stealth Rocks. I ran Fur Coat Doublade + Wonder Guard Audino Mega as due to running Dawn Wings I was able to fit Fur Coat Doublade which is the most consistent MMX answer and a strong physical wall, and Mega Audino who is my second Wonder Guard that supports the team and can wall some Moongeist Beam users as well as pair nicely with Doublade. You can use the packs for defensive Wonder Guards, Fur Coats and Magic Bouncers here and I also put some defensive core pairs at the bottom of the post so you can use Pokémon that pair well together.

A Prankhaze

Prankster Pokémon (in paticular Zygarde-Complete) can function as anti setup with Haze and just wall a good majority of the game. Zygarde-Complete solves a majority of physical attackers with Reflect and close to every special attacker that doesn't explicitly run coverage (ice moves) for it. In my opinion, the main reason you would run another Prankhaze like Steelix Mega over Zygarde-Complete is to answer Huge Power Kartarna. You can make balance teams without a Prankhaze (they usually run Innards Out) but Zygarde-Complete is a very consistent choice for balance teams and as this post is mostly directed at new players so I think it's a very good idea you run it. There is a Prankhaze pack too.

Imposter or Innards Out

Balance teams without one of the blobs are possible but most good teams will have one and again they're very consistent choices and they both patch up team holes. Innards Out can be used as a Harvest Slaking answer and if your team struggles against things Kartarna or MMX then Innards out can solve that. You can also fit moves like Aromatherapy here if you are struggling to them else where, you can fit secondary hazards on it, you can fit Magic Coat to answer Comaphase on it and Innards Out can function as a secondary special wall. If you don't need any of that you should run Imposter. If you are lacking priority or a revenge killer Choice Scarf Imposter can help with that and Imposter is incredibly helpful as it can scout sets, function as a revenge killer, function as anti setup as it copies boosts and save you from auto lose matchups. I chose Choice Scarf Blissey here as I wanted a revenge killer as I only had MMX with First Impression and it can also let me play around Huge Power Kartana.

Wonder Guard (And Fur Coat) Pairs

I thought this would be a good idea so new players can use Pokémon that actually pair well together and not just put random things together. Remember, only use a Wonder Guard + Fur Coat/Magic Bounce Pair if you already have an offensive Wonder Guard, and if one of your Wonder Guards is weak to ground use Innards Out.

+

+

Make Doublade Sturdy unless you have an offensive Wonder Guard

+

+

or

(Scizor is terrible)

+

+

+

or

(Scizor is terrible)

+

Already mentioned lol

+

+

+

+

Already mentioned lol

The Packs

And finally, I will now show you the packs. They have sets for every role (e.g. Wallbreaker and Offensive Wonder Guard) and you can use them when building. The Setpedia is outdated so I thought it would be helpful. I apologise for the nicknames it was 2am and the slashes and spaces disappeared from some of the moves too so I'm sorry about that. If you want a set to be added or changed let me know.

-Wallbreakers https://pokepast.es/fa6262e457909d05
-Offensive Wonder Guards https://pokepast.es/60d34199d55073a9
-Speed Control and Priority https://pokepast.es/134c937d48a0800b
-Defensive Wonder Guards https://pokepast.es/491f76ae93da1d08
-Fur Coats https://pokepast.es/94de94a254c3df2c
-Prankster https://pokepast.es/f5019ac0fcb35fd4
-Magic Bouncers https://pokepast.es/e830aa67379b2dab
-No Guard https://pokepast.es/27e03d93b8462fd0
-Shadow Tag https://pokepast.es/375e64484881e177 (can someone correct mhera set i've like never seen it and i found set on ph cord)
-Huge Power Shell Smash Sweepers https://pokepast.es/af0d2adf454aea3a

Just don’t use stag mega Hera

 

[PenultimateToast]

If you want a set to be added or changed let me know.

i mean you did ask (this is a really minor nitpick tbh)

the 2nd slaking under the "speed control and priority" section should have plasma fists over fusion bolt, same base power and accuracy except plasma fists has more pp so it's technically better, probably not that important but it is something and might come up in a longer game

 

[Guysmash]

Things I would change on your importable sets :

​

How To Build Balance (with packs!)


This will contain a tutorial on how to build a balance team with with Imposter/Innards Out and packs with sets you can build with. There's not really any guides on team building and the Setpedia is also outdated so I thought this could be helpful.

Building a Balance Team

The structure I'll be showing you how to make is Prankster + Wonder Guard + Wonder Guard or Fur Coat/Magic Bounce + Wall Breaker + Speed Control/Priority or Offensive Wonder Guard + Blob (Imposter/Innards Out). For example, it could look like:

or

There is some things your team will generally need however:
-You need 2 Wonder Guards (Sturdy counts as it blocks OHKO moves too) because of the existance of No Guard. These can either be 2 defensive Wonder Guards or you could run 1 defensive Wonder Guard and 1 offensive Wonder Guard so you are free to run a Fur Coat or Magic Bounce Pokèmon. If one of your Wonder Guard Pokémon is weak to ground, use Innards Out or you will lose to fissure.
-Make sure all of your offensive Pokémon are Imposter proofed. This means that you have an answer to your own Pokémon so when Imposter comes in you don't get sweeped. For example, use a plate or memory on your MMX so it can't hit one of your Pokémon, like a Flame Plate so you can hit opposing Doublade but an Imposter can't hit your own. You can also just have a Pokémon that hard walls one of your offensive Pokémon.
-A Huge Power Kartarna answer (Prankster steel, 4x steel resist, Innards Out, or Choice Scarf Blissey + a way to break it's sash) as other wise it can just sweep you.
-A Harvest Slaking answer (a move like Core Enforcer/Taunt/Magic Room/ect, Innards Out, or just generally a way you can force it out)
-A form of hazards (usually Stealth Rocks), Defog, and Aromatherapy (Aromatherapy can be put on Innards Out if needed).
-At the very least a good MMX switch in (e.g. Wonder Guard Slowbro Mega, Fur Coat Doublade, possibly Prankster Steelix) as otherwise a Choice Band MMX can win by spamming Photon Geyser, if you struggle against MMX consider Innards Out. A true way to wall MMX is unrealistic as it can run coverage for anything but Fur Coat Doublade is the most consistent wall.
-Forms of priority and speed control (e.g. a FakeSpeed Slaking, First Impression on MMX or Choice Scarf Parental Bond Gengar Mega). If you are struggling here consider Choice Scarf Imposter Blissey.
-And finally, don't auto lose to Innards Out. This is done with either multiple physical attackers/double Huge Power or if you have to anti Innards tech like minimum attack U-Turns or Sludge Bomb on Parental Bond Gengar Mega. If you have a team where your main wall breaker is a physical attacker and it's partnered with a special attacker that can't win on it's own you are probably vunarable to Innards Out.

This doesn't have to be done in any paticular order but I suggest you do it in the order I show each Pokémon. Use the packs at the bottom of the post if you want. Remember that 2 Wonder Guards (Sturdy counts) are required.

Wallbreaker

Here I chose MMX, it's the best wall breaker in the game and can run coverage for literally anything whilst being easy to Imposter proof and it can fit priority (First Impression). Often times MMX is the best choice and you'd be missing out by not using it. Other examples can include Heracross Mega and Mold Breaker Primal Groudon.

Second Offensive Pokémon

Here you can do multiple things. You could add a speed control/priority Pokémon like Choice Scarf Parental Bond Gengar or FakeSpeed Slaking. You can also run an offensive Wonder Guard Pokémon allowing you to fit a Fur Coat or Magic Bounce Pokémon in your defensive core. Here I chose Wonder Guard Necrozma Dawn Wings as a strong cleaner that is also 1 of my 2 Wonder Guards freeing up slots later. Again you can use the packs for this.

Defensive Core

Here you will have either 1 defensive Wonder Guard or 2 depending on whether you are running an offensive Wonder Guard. On these Pokémon you can fit Defog, Aromatherapy, and Stealth Rocks. I ran Fur Coat Doublade + Wonder Guard Audino Mega as due to running Dawn Wings I was able to fit Fur Coat Doublade which is the most consistent MMX answer and a strong physical wall, and Mega Audino who is my second Wonder Guard that supports the team and can wall some Moongeist Beam users as well as pair nicely with Doublade. You can use the packs for defensive Wonder Guards, Fur Coats and Magic Bouncers here and I also put some defensive core pairs at the bottom of the post so you can use Pokémon that pair well together.

A Prankhaze

Prankster Pokémon (in paticular Zygarde-Complete) can function as anti setup with Haze and just wall a good majority of the game. Zygarde-Complete solves a majority of physical attackers with Reflect and close to every special attacker that doesn't explicitly run coverage (ice moves) for it. In my opinion, the main reason you would run another Prankhaze like Steelix Mega over Zygarde-Complete is to answer Huge Power Kartarna. You can make balance teams without a Prankhaze (they usually run Innards Out) but Zygarde-Complete is a very consistent choice for balance teams and as this post is mostly directed at new players I think it's a very good idea you run it. There is a Prankhaze pack too.

Imposter or Innards Out

Balance teams without one of the blobs are possible but most good teams will have one and again they're very consistent choices and they both patch up team holes. Innards Out can be used as a Harvest Slaking answer and if your team struggles against things like Kartarna or MMX then Innards out can solve that. You can also fit moves like Aromatherapy here if you are struggling to them else where, you can fit secondary hazards on it, you can fit Magic Coat to answer Comaphase on it and Innards Out can function as a secondary special wall. If you don't need any of that you should run Imposter. If you are lacking priority or a revenge killer Choice Scarf Imposter can help with that and Imposter is incredibly helpful as it can scout sets, function as a revenge killer, function as anti setup as it copies boosts and save you from auto lose matchups. I chose Choice Scarf Blissey here as I wanted a revenge killer as I only had MMX with First Impression and it can also let me play around Huge Power Kartana.

Wonder Guard (And Fur Coat) Pairs

I thought this would be a good idea so new players can use Pokémon that actually pair well together and not just put random things together. Remember, only use a Wonder Guard + Fur Coat/Magic Bounce Pair if you already have an offensive Wonder Guard, and if one of your Wonder Guards is weak to ground use Innards Out.

+

+

Make Doublade Sturdy unless you have an offensive Wonder Guard

+

+

or

(Scizor is terrible)

+

+

+

or

(Scizor is terrible)

+

Already mentioned lol

+

+

+

+

Already mentioned lol

The Packs

And finally, I will now show you the packs. They have sets for every role (e.g. Wallbreaker and Offensive Wonder Guard) and you can use them when building. The Setpedia is outdated so I thought it would be helpful. I apologise for the nicknames it was 2am and the slashes and spaces disappeared from some of the moves too so I'm sorry about that. If you want a set to be added or changed let me know.

-Wallbreakers https://pokepast.es/fa6262e457909d05
-Offensive Wonder Guards https://pokepast.es/60d34199d55073a9
-Speed Control and Priority https://pokepast.es/134c937d48a0800b
-Defensive Wonder Guards https://pokepast.es/491f76ae93da1d08
-Fur Coats https://pokepast.es/94de94a254c3df2c
-Prankster https://pokepast.es/f5019ac0fcb35fd4
-Magic Bouncers https://pokepast.es/e830aa67379b2dab
-No Guard https://pokepast.es/27e03d93b8462fd0
-Shadow Tag https://pokepast.es/375e64484881e177 (can someone correct mhera set i've like never seen it and i found set on ph cord)
-Huge Power Shell Smash Sweepers https://pokepast.es/af0d2adf454aea3a

Add Ice Shard with Ice hammer on the MHera Wall Breaker and Speed Control sets, iirc it OHKOs Zygod with 3 layers of spikes (which happens frequently in a balance).
I beleive MScizor would be worth addedoffensive WG.
Why is there a Defensive WG set for MScizor ? It’s useless.
For the MBouncers Add Steela, it’s one of the few steel types with a decent special bulk.
For NoGuard, isn’t fissure just better then Sheer Cold for Kart ? Like it beats steel types which sheer cold does not.
Finnaly I think MMX could be added as a Shell Smash HP user

 

[Yourself]

i mean you did ask (this is a really minor nitpick tbh)

the 2nd slaking under the "speed control and priority" section should have plasma fists over fusion bolt, same base power and accuracy except plasma fists has more pp so it's technically better, probably not that important but it is something and might come up in a longer game

plasma fists makes normal moves electric so e speed would become electric which isn't ideal

 

[Guysmash]

plasma fists makes normal moves electric so e speed would become electric which isn't ideal

It only works the turn PFists is used

 

[PenultimateToast]

plasma fists makes normal moves electric so e speed would become electric which isn't ideal

doesn't that only happen the turn you use it?

 

[Yourself]

Things I would change on your importable sets :


Add Ice Shard with Ice hammer on the MHera Wall Breaker and Speed Control sets, iirc it OHKOs Zygod with 3 layers of spikes (which happens frequently in a balance).
I beleive MScizor would be worth addedoffensive WG.
Why is there a Defensive WG set for MScizor ? It’s useless.
For the MBouncers Add Steela, it’s one of the few steel types with a decent special bulk.
For NoGuard, isn’t fissure just better then Sheer Cold for Kart ? Like it beats steel types which sheer cold does not.
Finnaly I think MMX could be added as a Shell Smash HP user

i didn't add ice shard bc i only included the band set and the band set wants ice hammer, also 3 layers of spikes doesn't happen often when close to every team has defog

only you have used this set and im very unfamilliar with it which gives me an excuse not to add it bc i think it's terrible

worth mentioning if scizor is ranked for that, did point out in my post scizor is terrible

i saw 1 1400 use mboounce steela so again idk anything about it and nobody uses it so i don't think it's worth bringing up. with mbouncers on stall ur basically either limited to zygod or heatran to answer hp kart anyways.

all the wg steels aren't weak to ground anyways like celesteela and ferrothorn. the actual reason you'd use fissure is because it hits muk, muk however dies to a +2 sunsteel anyways but it doesn't matter because i said it could run sheer cold or fissure.

 

[Yourself]

It only works the turn PFists is used

doesn't that only happen the turn you use it?

didn't realise i'll add plasma fists then

 

[aidan amoongus]

Ok first-what happened to the Yourself and NToTheN post.

Secondly-I will try to do what Yourself did with a little less criticism and my concerns.


First off. Its funny. It seems like a meme team until you see it actually beats really good teams. PDon checks like Mega Slowbro actually can't come in safely on a PDon unless they make sure you aren't Moongeist. This is really just the spam aspect taking place, and just confusing people with less IQ (namely me). However, more experienced players will play safer and probably win. Really IMO is just experience issues.


Actually tried this team out myself, and really nothing to say-its fast HO Psyspam thats pretty good IMO, but is a bit outdated. Works fine personally.


I will defend this team to my last breath. This is a really good team that carries a lot of people to mid/high ladder, including myself. People higher up make a few tweaks, but its around the same idea. Yourself is right about it being a little outdated, but it is a really good team personally. Also Yourself wanted this to be replaced with TriKart, but IMO, TriKart is good, but not sample worthy. TriKart hardcore loses to PBond Gengar after Innards is dealt with making it a little inconsistent.


This sample is fine, but I've stated this before-PDon should be impproofed better. Sample teams should be able to get players experienced in the format, even if they are new. This team doesn't do that because PDon isn't impproofed.

Hi, it's your favorite Amoongus here again!

So, I was looking at the samples, and they all look pretty good. Then, I saw the NToTheN PBond Gengar team. I asked this in the chat before, but why is PDon not Imp Proofed? I mean, if it was N playing this they could probably win with it, but if it's someone with little or no experience, they could get 6-0ed by Imposter. Click Sunsteel on AMuk once, then Bonemerang, and click Smash then Sunsteel on Melo You either have to win speed tie or pray your opponent doesn't know what they're doing, which isn't what a sample should be. Not saying this is bad, but I just feel like it should be reworked a bit to Impproof the PDon.

Edit 1: here's the team for those who want a quicker way to go to it

Additionally, Imposter Chansey should be Shed Shell, as Caz says "when half the meta beats you by trapping you, it's [Shed Shell] surprisingly useful".

its also getting late, so im gonna finish the post here and edit it to include the rest of my thoughts tomorrow

 

[ItzEmanBoss]

Hey friends! After thick and thin I have finally reached the fabled top 100 in Gen 7 Pure Hackmons and this is the team that just put me over the edge.

Now BEHOLD my epic MMX HO team!

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Ice Shard
- Photon Geyser
- Mach Punch

Pretty standard set until HOLY FUCKING SHIT IS THAT MAC PUNCH? Yes, yes it is bully me all you want but it catches a shit ton of Gren and kart sets off guard which I could not have with sunsteel or any other coverage option.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Photon Geyser
- Sunsteel Strike
- Ice Hammer


Mostly a counter to innards Blissey/Chansey and quite frankly my only counter to wg Muk, and Ic Hammer is also a good option against Prank Haze Zy because it 2kos it even after a recover the only think I don’t like about this is that it can miss.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Let's Snuggle Forever
- Light That Burns the Sky
- Shell Smash
- Close Combat

The most common lead on this team besides MGeng just for its ability to bounce back those pesky stealth rocks, encore, and the occasional toxic.

Blissey (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Gentle Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def
- Whirlwind
- Defog
- Shore Up
- Toxic

Egg. But it has toxic, toxic was a last minute change because when I originally had aromatherapy which got almost no use and a good option to throw out when I have a free turn but magic bounce completely fucks this set

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Mystic Water
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Moongeist Beam
- Icicle Spear
- Oceanic Operetta

Choice Specs also works but I like the versatility of Mystic Water, also just an all out water special attacker and a very good check to PDon

Gengar-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam


Speed control and a lead to put out some immediate damage while outspeeding almost everything in the teir without a speed boost.

And that’s been Eman’s amazing MMX HO team (the account that reached rank 98 is called Itzemanbosss btw)

 

[Guysmash]

Hey friends! After thick and thin I have finally reached the fabled top 100 in Gen 7 Pure Hackmons and this is the team that just put me over the edge.

Now BEHOLD my epic MMX HO team!

View attachment 720230

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Ice Shard
- Photon Geyser
- Mach Punch

Pretty standard set until HOLY FUCKING SHIT IS THAT MAC PUNCH? Yes, yes it is bully me all you want but it catches a shit ton of Gren and kart sets off guard which I could not have with sunsteel or any other coverage option.


View attachment 720231

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Photon Geyser
- Sunsteel Strike
- Ice Hammer


Mostly a counter to innards Blissey/Chansey and quite frankly my only counter to wg Muk, and Ic Hammer is also a good option against Prank Haze Zy because it 2kos it even after a recover the only think I don’t like about this is that it can miss.


View attachment 720232

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Let's Snuggle Forever
- Light That Burns the Sky
- Shell Smash
- Close Combat

The most common lead on this team besides MGeng just for its ability to bounce back those pesky stealth rocks, encore, and the occasional toxic.


View attachment 720233

Blissey (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Gentle Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def
- Whirlwind
- Defog
- Shore Up
- Toxic

Egg. But it has toxic, toxic was a last minute change because when I originally had aromatherapy which got almost no use and a good option to throw out when I have a free turn but magic bounce completely fucks this set



View attachment 720234

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Mystic Water
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Moongeist Beam
- Icicle Spear
- Oceanic Operetta

Choice Specs also works but I like the versatility of Mystic Water, also just an all out water special attacker and a very good check to PDon


View attachment 720235


Gengar-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam


Speed control and a lead to put out some immediate damage while outspeeding almost everything in the teir without a speed boost.

And that’s been Eman’s amazing MMX HO team (the account that reached rank 98 is called Itzemanbosss btw)

Hey, the team looks pretty cool. However I think 2 changes could be done to improove it :
- On the MGuard MMX you can’t hit steel types and you already deal good damage to Zygod with Ice Shard and Ice Beam, moreover if you switch on a blob with this MMX the opponent will probably understand that it is MGuard. This is why I believe replacing Ice Hammer by Pursuit would be great.

- Since Blissey doesn't have Aromatherapy, it'd be a real issue if you get your Toxic bounced. And you can’t deal with a MBouncer special attacker with this team. This is why I think you should replace Toxic by MCoat to counter things like ComaPHaze or PShot to keep momentum (because if Blissey doesn’t kill you lose it) and deal with MBouncers.

 

[Yourself]

Ok first-what happened to the Yourself and NToTheN post.

Secondly-I will try to do what Yourself did with a little less criticism and my concerns.


First off. Its funny. It seems like a meme team until you see it actually beats really good teams. PDon checks like Mega Slowbro actually can't come in safely on a PDon unless they make sure you aren't Moongeist. This is really just the spam aspect taking place, and just confusing people with less IQ (namely me). However, more experienced players will play safer and probably win. Really IMO is just experience issues.


Actually tried this team out myself, and really nothing to say-its fast HO Psyspam thats pretty good IMO, but is a bit outdated. Works fine personally.


I will defend this team to my last breath. This is a really good team that carries a lot of people to mid/high ladder, including myself. People higher up make a few tweaks, but its around the same idea. Yourself is right about it being a little outdated, but it is a really good team personally. Also Yourself wanted this to be replaced with TriKart, but IMO, TriKart is good, but not sample worthy. TriKart hardcore loses to PBond Gengar after Innards is dealt with making it a little inconsistent.


This sample is fine, but I've stated this before-PDon should be impproofed better. Sample teams should be able to get players experienced in the format, even if they are new. This team doesn't do that because PDon isn't impproofed.


Additionally, Imposter Chansey should be Shed Shell, as Caz says "when half the meta beats you by trapping you, it's [Shed Shell] surprisingly useful".

its also getting late, so im gonna finish the post here and edit it to include the rest of my thoughts tomorrow

the post was mostly ragebait outdide of the diamancie rant which is why i deleted my post hence why n deleted their's but i never actually saw n's post. either way im gonna reply to what u said here.

psyterrain- psyspam isn't rly meta rn, and the team is very old. ntothen wants this deleted so, yeah.

ng lop ho- i get the argument for keeping this but imo it should be replaced with a team like gold's team (which is actually a modified version of the sample) that has had a lot more success on the ladder and is newer, or a team like trikart.

mbounce pdon offense- the team is old and it's not very good. ntothen wants it replaced but no one has actually submitted any bo samples.

 

[aidan amoongus]

the post was mostly ragebait outdide of the diamancie rant which is why i deleted my post hence why n deleted their's but i never actually saw n's post. either way im gonna reply to what u said here.

psyterrain- psyterrain isn't rly meta rn, and the team is very old. ntothen wants this deleted so, yeah.

ng lop ho- i get the argument for keeping this but imo it should be replaced with a team like gold's team (which is actually a modified version of the sample) that has had a lot more success on the ladder and is newer, or a team like trikart.

mbounce pdon offense- the team is old and it's not very good. ntothen wants it replaced but no one has actually submitted any bo samples.

You say that Bahamut’s No Guard Lop Team should be replaced by something like Gold’s team which is a variant of the team. Understandable, but don’t you contradict yourself when you say that PsyTerrain isn’t meta? Is it just me or..?

 

[Yourself]

You say that Bahamut’s No Guard Lop Team should be replaced by something like Gold’s team which is a variant of the team. Understandable, but don’t you contradict yourself when you say that PsyTerrain isn’t meta? Is it just me or..?

gold's team has psy terrain but isn't a psyspam

 

[LemonLime78]

Yknow. I didn't really expect to be here. I mostly play ph more on the side. But some-fucking-how I have managed to hit 14th on ladder with 1600+ elo, including wins vs some prominent players. So I figure I'll share the team cuz why not

The Team

https://pokepast.es/34e459642438b5ac

Now, normally I would share my building process. However, as the name suggests, this team was originally conceived as some random bullshit to battle my friend. As such, I will instead be explaining what each member does in practice.

Kartana is an extremely funny lil guy. It's pretty simple, spam the nuke button. Eq to hit steelix better, sub to avoid status and imposter. As kartana is something of a glass cannon, I don't like to bring it in often unless I really want to take a kill or I'm confident it can sweep. Overall, kartana is extremely simple, just bring it in and nuke something when the time feels right.

Gyarados serves dual-purpose as a wguard mon and a mbreaker sweeper. It serves as a wall to various stuff, can later be used as a breaker or sweeper. Ice shard smacks zygod and to a lesser degree mray, not much to say here. Tends to be my gamewinner more than kartana as it has easier setup opportunities.

Tank/pivot/anti-setup. We all know what it does. Funnily enough, it can also pp stall vs a single mon in the endgame if absolutely necessary, tho it's not optimal. Spikes could be used over rocks.

Serves as my priority of choice. Good at sweeping (there might be a pattern here). Oblivion wing and photon geyser smack most stuff, dkiss can target dark wguards. It can't hit psychic wguards, but there are multiple other options for those on this team.

Revenge killer. Moongeist hits a lot of stuff quite well, photon geyser hits others. Trick scarf is great at crippling defensive mons (particularly zygod or utility wguards) or punishing sleep leads, and tail glow is admittedly replaceable. It could sweep slower teams, but most teams will have at least a mon or two faster, especially with modest. So usually on the rare occasion that I use tail glow, it's moreso to force in another offensive mon after I kill the trapped one. Gengar mainly serves as good speed control/revenge killing and can help break bulkier mons.

Regigigas is a bulkier wguard. It's best used when I'm trying to setup without using a glass cannon. Spectral thief is also useful to steal buffs from most mons and hit ghosts. Very simple, very straightforward. Safety goggles could be used, but I prefer lefties for better longevity.

Tips for Usage

I'll usually lead with either steelix or gengar. Steelix can get up hazards, stop anti-lead setup, or pivot out while gengar can chip down lead threats or trick scarf. In the event that I'd rather keep Gengar alive, I'll switch into the appropriate mon.

In terms of breaking/sweeping, Gyarados tends to be my go-to early on. It's much easier to setup than Kartana due to wguard and it hits harder faster than Regigigas. Later on, if I can get the opportunity, Kartana becomes much better as it has obscene firepower right off the bat and can run away with games after a single shell smash. Regigigas tends to leverage its bulk over its firepower to break mons and doesn't usually sweep. On the special side, Gengar will almost never sweep, but stag scarf can be amazing at taking down threats after saccing a mon or otherwise getting valuable chip that can allow my other mons to break through. Megaray is probably my second go-to in the early game as it can be kept healthy rather easily and very quickly hits hard after tail glow.

In general, it's worth it to sac a physical attacker to innards out, given that there's two more of them and that's one less innards out to deal with later. Similarly, it can also be worth it to sac Gengar to get chip on a single mmx to get it within range of Megaray's oblivion wing. If there are multiple, I'll instead have to find an opportunity to set up Kartana, Gyara, or Megaray, which can be difficult but not impossible.

I'll admit it, Kartana isn't improofed very well. However, it's usually fine as I don't bring it in that much anyways. In the event that it does get copied, there are a couple courses of action that I can take: A: if my sash is intact, I can just spam shell smash and kill. B: if the imposter comes in beforehand, I can trick it scarf then to make it much more manageable with steelix. C: If all else fails, it might be worth it to sac steelix to stop a sweep. Obviously, I'd rather not get to this point, but it's there as a last resort. Overall, the best option is to not get copied in the first place.

Proof of peak:

 

[aidan amoongus]

Yknow. I didn't really expect to be here. I mostly play ph more on the side. But some-fucking-how I have managed to hit 14th on ladder with 1600+ elo, including wins vs some prominent players. So I figure I'll share the team cuz why not

The Team

https://pokepast.es/34e459642438b5ac

Now, normally I would share my building process. However, as the name suggests, this team was originally conceived as some random bullshit to battle my friend. As such, I will instead be explaining what each member does in practice.

Kartana is an extremely funny lil guy. It's pretty simple, spam the nuke button. Eq to hit steelix better, sub to avoid status and imposter. As kartana is something of a glass cannon, I don't like to bring it in often unless I really want to take a kill or I'm confident it can sweep. Overall, kartana is extremely simple, just bring it in and nuke something when the time feels right.

Gyarados serves dual-purpose as a wguard mon and a mbreaker sweeper. It serves as a wall to various stuff, can later be used as a breaker or sweeper. Ice shard smacks zygod and to a lesser degree mray, not much to say here. Tends to be my gamewinner more than kartana as it has easier setup opportunities.

Tank/pivot/anti-setup. We all know what it does. Funnily enough, it can also pp stall vs a single mon in the endgame if absolutely necessary, tho it's not optimal. Spikes could be used over rocks.

Serves as my priority of choice. Good at sweeping (there might be a pattern here). Oblivion wing and photon geyser smack most stuff, dkiss can target dark wguards. It can't hit psychic wguards, but there are multiple other options for those on this team.

Revenge killer. Moongeist hits a lot of stuff quite well, photon geyser hits others. Trick scarf is great at crippling defensive mons (particularly zygod or utility wguards) or punishing sleep leads, and tail glow is admittedly replaceable. It could sweep slower teams, but most teams will have at least a mon or two faster, especially with modest. So usually on the rare occasion that I use tail glow, it's moreso to force in another offensive mon after I kill the trapped one. Gengar mainly serves as good speed control/revenge killing and can help break bulkier mons.

Regigigas is a bulkier wguard. It's best used when I'm trying to setup without using a glass cannon. Spectral thief is also useful to steal buffs from most mons and hit ghosts. Very simple, very straightforward. Safety goggles could be used, but I prefer lefties for better longevity.

Tips for Usage

I'll usually lead with either steelix or gengar. Steelix can get up hazards, stop anti-lead setup, or pivot out while gengar can chip down lead threats or trick scarf. In the event that I'd rather keep Gengar alive, I'll switch into the appropriate mon.

In terms of breaking/sweeping, Gyarados tends to be my go-to early on. It's much easier to setup than Kartana due to wguard and it hits harder faster than Regigigas. Later on, if I can get the opportunity, Kartana becomes much better as it has obscene firepower right off the bat and can run away with games after a single shell smash. Regigigas tends to leverage its bulk over its firepower to break mons and doesn't usually sweep. On the special side, Gengar will almost never sweep, but stag scarf can be amazing at taking down threats after saccing a mon or otherwise getting valuable chip that can allow my other mons to break through. Megaray is probably my second go-to in the early game as it can be kept healthy rather easily and very quickly hits hard after tail glow.

In general, it's worth it to sac a physical attacker to innards out, given that there's two more of them and that's one less innards out to deal with later. Similarly, it can also be worth it to sac Gengar to get chip on a single mmx to get it within range of Megaray's oblivion wing. If there are multiple, I'll instead have to find an opportunity to set up Kartana, Gyara, or Megaray, which can be difficult but not impossible.

I'll admit it, Kartana isn't improofed very well. However, it's usually fine as I don't bring it in that much anyways. In the event that it does get copied, there are a couple courses of action that I can take: A: if my sash is intact, I can just spam shell smash and kill. B: if the imposter comes in beforehand, I can trick it scarf then to make it much more manageable with steelix. C: If all else fails, it might be worth it to sac steelix to stop a sweep. Obviously, I'd rather not get to this point, but it's there as a last resort. Overall, the best option is to not get copied in the first place.

Proof of peak:
View attachment 721562

Hi, it’s that guy from OMMs who glazes Amoonguss.

The team seems pretty decent, like a regular team. However, some thoughts:

The Kartana set seems a bit off. Substitute is anti-synergy with Focus Sash, and it's not impproofed well. Substitute should not be your imp proof, but you are close with Steelix. Earthquake is weird on the set though, because Steelix as your impproof can't impproof it well. Gyarados@Gyaradosinite also doesn't seem like your ideal imp proof because it gets 2HKOed iirc. As someone who uses Huge Power Kartana and terrorizes low and mid ladder (sometimes high), I think you should change the set to this:


Kartana @ Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Searing Sunraze Smash
- Ice Shard

Explanation of why I chose Searing Sunraze Smash and Ice Shard:
Huge Power Kartana at +2 using Searing Sunraze Smash OHKOes every Pokemon in the game except for three. Those three Pokemon are all unviable here, except for one semi-viable. They are Eviolite Magneton, Heatran, and Volcanion. This leaves few counters for this beast other than outspeed and kill it, Innards Out, Scarf Imposter, and most notably Prankster Haze. Even Prankster Haze falls short most of the time though, as Zygarde C, the most common PrankHaze user in the format can get killed by a +2 Huge Power Ice Shard. It can't Haze it because Kartana outspeeds.

I also would recommend changing Steelix to Goggles or Shed Shell mainly because you have no Prankster Haze check unless Gyara has mega evolved. Shed Shell is just generally good at escaping trapping, which isn't as huge of a problem IMO, but still is a problem. This is the same for Gigas.

On Steelix, I recommend dropping Parting Shot because you are Prankster. This lets Dark types stop you from pivoting, and Bouncers annoying you. If you want to pivot, try U-Turn.

Hope that helps!

 

[splodge]

Yknow. I didn't really expect to be here. I mostly play ph more on the side. But some-fucking-how I have managed to hit 14th on ladder with 1600+ elo, including wins vs some prominent players. So I figure I'll share the team cuz why not

The Team

https://pokepast.es/34e459642438b5ac

Now, normally I would share my building process. However, as the name suggests, this team was originally conceived as some random bullshit to battle my friend. As such, I will instead be explaining what each member does in practice.

Kartana is an extremely funny lil guy. It's pretty simple, spam the nuke button. Eq to hit steelix better, sub to avoid status and imposter. As kartana is something of a glass cannon, I don't like to bring it in often unless I really want to take a kill or I'm confident it can sweep. Overall, kartana is extremely simple, just bring it in and nuke something when the time feels right.

Gyarados serves dual-purpose as a wguard mon and a mbreaker sweeper. It serves as a wall to various stuff, can later be used as a breaker or sweeper. Ice shard smacks zygod and to a lesser degree mray, not much to say here. Tends to be my gamewinner more than kartana as it has easier setup opportunities.

Tank/pivot/anti-setup. We all know what it does. Funnily enough, it can also pp stall vs a single mon in the endgame if absolutely necessary, tho it's not optimal. Spikes could be used over rocks.

Serves as my priority of choice. Good at sweeping (there might be a pattern here). Oblivion wing and photon geyser smack most stuff, dkiss can target dark wguards. It can't hit psychic wguards, but there are multiple other options for those on this team.

Revenge killer. Moongeist hits a lot of stuff quite well, photon geyser hits others. Trick scarf is great at crippling defensive mons (particularly zygod or utility wguards) or punishing sleep leads, and tail glow is admittedly replaceable. It could sweep slower teams, but most teams will have at least a mon or two faster, especially with modest. So usually on the rare occasion that I use tail glow, it's moreso to force in another offensive mon after I kill the trapped one. Gengar mainly serves as good speed control/revenge killing and can help break bulkier mons.

Regigigas is a bulkier wguard. It's best used when I'm trying to setup without using a glass cannon. Spectral thief is also useful to steal buffs from most mons and hit ghosts. Very simple, very straightforward. Safety goggles could be used, but I prefer lefties for better longevity.

Tips for Usage

I'll usually lead with either steelix or gengar. Steelix can get up hazards, stop anti-lead setup, or pivot out while gengar can chip down lead threats or trick scarf. In the event that I'd rather keep Gengar alive, I'll switch into the appropriate mon.

In terms of breaking/sweeping, Gyarados tends to be my go-to early on. It's much easier to setup than Kartana due to wguard and it hits harder faster than Regigigas. Later on, if I can get the opportunity, Kartana becomes much better as it has obscene firepower right off the bat and can run away with games after a single shell smash. Regigigas tends to leverage its bulk over its firepower to break mons and doesn't usually sweep. On the special side, Gengar will almost never sweep, but stag scarf can be amazing at taking down threats after saccing a mon or otherwise getting valuable chip that can allow my other mons to break through. Megaray is probably my second go-to in the early game as it can be kept healthy rather easily and very quickly hits hard after tail glow.

In general, it's worth it to sac a physical attacker to innards out, given that there's two more of them and that's one less innards out to deal with later. Similarly, it can also be worth it to sac Gengar to get chip on a single mmx to get it within range of Megaray's oblivion wing. If there are multiple, I'll instead have to find an opportunity to set up Kartana, Gyara, or Megaray, which can be difficult but not impossible.

I'll admit it, Kartana isn't improofed very well. However, it's usually fine as I don't bring it in that much anyways. In the event that it does get copied, there are a couple courses of action that I can take: A: if my sash is intact, I can just spam shell smash and kill. B: if the imposter comes in beforehand, I can trick it scarf then to make it much more manageable with steelix. C: If all else fails, it might be worth it to sac steelix to stop a sweep. Obviously, I'd rather not get to this point, but it's there as a last resort. Overall, the best option is to not get copied in the first place.

Proof of peak:
View attachment 721562

Hi, it's that guy from OMMs who glazes Scorbunny.
The team is ok but there are a few things I would change.
I don't think Sub is good here, because it's often hard to find setup opportunites vs defensive mons, and they will likely switch or pivot out anyway, so I would change it to Ice Shard for Prankster Zygarde. EQ is also weird, as +2 Searing Sunraze Smash OHKOs everything except a few 4x resists while EQ means you can't OHKO MGyara and Celesteela, and using SSS will allow Steelix to improof it.
The set is mostly fine but it's passive, so I would change Parting Shot to Thousand Waves so it can deal damage and trap Imposter. Also Leftovers probably isn't the best item for it, Shed Shell and Safety Goggles are generally more useful.
The main point of Shadow Tag is to trap specific targets, but it doesn't really do that here, so I would change it to Parental Bond for a bit more damage and breaking sashes. I also don't like Photon Geyser here as Psychic is a pretty bad offensive type if you don't have STAB (especially since a lot of the meta tries to take on Photon users). Tail Glow is probably ok sometimes but most of the time you won't be using it, so I would change those 2 moves to coverage moves like Bug Buzz, Ice Beam, or Sludge Bomb/Wave.
Most WG sweepers aren't great, and since the team lacks a Defogger, I would change it to a defensive set, and also change it to Arceus for the extra bulk. I gave it Core Enforcer so the team has a more reliable way of dealing with Harvest Slaking (Arceus lives +2 SSS and can use Core Enforcer to remove Harvest, meaning you can safely beat it with Steelix).
I haven't seen or used Triage MRay enough to really know how good it is, but if you do keep it, I would change Leftovers to Life Orb for more damage, and Photon Geyser to Moongeist Beam to hit Steels and so Arceus improofs it.

Here's the version I made: https://pokepast.es/150ef826df4b24b7

 

[ItzEmanBoss]

Yknow. I didn't really expect to be here. I mostly play ph more on the side. But some-fucking-how I have managed to hit 14th on ladder with 1600+ elo, including wins vs some prominent players. So I figure I'll share the team cuz why not

The Team

https://pokepast.es/34e459642438b5ac

Now, normally I would share my building process. However, as the name suggests, this team was originally conceived as some random bullshit to battle my friend. As such, I will instead be explaining what each member does in practice.

Kartana is an extremely funny lil guy. It's pretty simple, spam the nuke button. Eq to hit steelix better, sub to avoid status and imposter. As kartana is something of a glass cannon, I don't like to bring it in often unless I really want to take a kill or I'm confident it can sweep. Overall, kartana is extremely simple, just bring it in and nuke something when the time feels right.

Gyarados serves dual-purpose as a wguard mon and a mbreaker sweeper. It serves as a wall to various stuff, can later be used as a breaker or sweeper. Ice shard smacks zygod and to a lesser degree mray, not much to say here. Tends to be my gamewinner more than kartana as it has easier setup opportunities.

Tank/pivot/anti-setup. We all know what it does. Funnily enough, it can also pp stall vs a single mon in the endgame if absolutely necessary, tho it's not optimal. Spikes could be used over rocks.

Serves as my priority of choice. Good at sweeping (there might be a pattern here). Oblivion wing and photon geyser smack most stuff, dkiss can target dark wguards. It can't hit psychic wguards, but there are multiple other options for those on this team.

Revenge killer. Moongeist hits a lot of stuff quite well, photon geyser hits others. Trick scarf is great at crippling defensive mons (particularly zygod or utility wguards) or punishing sleep leads, and tail glow is admittedly replaceable. It could sweep slower teams, but most teams will have at least a mon or two faster, especially with modest. So usually on the rare occasion that I use tail glow, it's moreso to force in another offensive mon after I kill the trapped one. Gengar mainly serves as good speed control/revenge killing and can help break bulkier mons.

Regigigas is a bulkier wguard. It's best used when I'm trying to setup without using a glass cannon. Spectral thief is also useful to steal buffs from most mons and hit ghosts. Very simple, very straightforward. Safety goggles could be used, but I prefer lefties for better longevity.

Tips for Usage

I'll usually lead with either steelix or gengar. Steelix can get up hazards, stop anti-lead setup, or pivot out while gengar can chip down lead threats or trick scarf. In the event that I'd rather keep Gengar alive, I'll switch into the appropriate mon.

In terms of breaking/sweeping, Gyarados tends to be my go-to early on. It's much easier to setup than Kartana due to wguard and it hits harder faster than Regigigas. Later on, if I can get the opportunity, Kartana becomes much better as it has obscene firepower right off the bat and can run away with games after a single shell smash. Regigigas tends to leverage its bulk over its firepower to break mons and doesn't usually sweep. On the special side, Gengar will almost never sweep, but stag scarf can be amazing at taking down threats after saccing a mon or otherwise getting valuable chip that can allow my other mons to break through. Megaray is probably my second go-to in the early game as it can be kept healthy rather easily and very quickly hits hard after tail glow.

In general, it's worth it to sac a physical attacker to innards out, given that there's two more of them and that's one less innards out to deal with later. Similarly, it can also be worth it to sac Gengar to get chip on a single mmx to get it within range of Megaray's oblivion wing. If there are multiple, I'll instead have to find an opportunity to set up Kartana, Gyara, or Megaray, which can be difficult but not impossible.

I'll admit it, Kartana isn't improofed very well. However, it's usually fine as I don't bring it in that much anyways. In the event that it does get copied, there are a couple courses of action that I can take: A: if my sash is intact, I can just spam shell smash and kill. B: if the imposter comes in beforehand, I can trick it scarf then to make it much more manageable with steelix. C: If all else fails, it might be worth it to sac steelix to stop a sweep. Obviously, I'd rather not get to this point, but it's there as a last resort. Overall, the best option is to not get copied in the first place.

Proof of peak:
View attachment 721562

So I’m just gonna say it this team is ok, it could be better like kart not running sub, Instead run some other coverage option or Searing Sunraze Smash.

M-steel running safety goggles or shed shell instead of leftovers.

Regi is COMPLETELY outclassed by slaking and you’re using shift gear? Which is ok but pretty much completely outclassed by shell smash.

M-Geng is running Shad tag? Try running p-bond (I assume somebody already said) without tail glow and photon. A better set would be MGB, sludge wave, Bug Buzz, and Ice Beam

I know you are a very good player who just hasn’t dipped their toes in PH Very often, and with an actual good team I bet you could be a very threatening player

 

[aidan amoongus]

So I’m just gonna say it this team is ok, it could be better like kart not running sub, Instead run some other coverage option or Searing Sunraze Smash.

M-steel running safety goggles or shed shell instead of leftovers.

Regi is COMPLETELY outclassed by slaking and you’re using shift gear? Which is ok but pretty much completely outclassed by shell smash.

M-Geng is running Shad tag? Try running p-bond (I assume somebody already said) without tail glow and photon. A better set would be MGB, sludge wave, Bug Buzz, and Ice Beam

I know you are a very good player who just hasn’t dipped their toes in PH Very often, and with an actual good team I bet you could be a very threatening player

I don't think that some of these comments are very accurate. I'm not known as the best PH player, but I have peaked top 15 so I assume it means something

As I said in my original post, I agree that Mega Steelix should run Safety Goggles or Shed Shell.

Now, I'm not gonna do a Spamton here and glaze Gigas. I'm trying to be fair, but honestly I think Regigigas has a niche here over Slaking. Regigigas and Slaking are the same as you know, except Slaking is more Physical bulk, and Gigas is more Special bulk. In this team, you already have Steelix as your Physical wall, so I do think Gigas is slightly better as it specializes more into Special bulk which this team needs.

I did miss some stuff though, so thanks for reminding me. The Gigas set is really bad. Regigigas should be a support Wonder Guard IMO because your team has litteraly 0 support mons other than Steelix.

What my set would be:

Regigigas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Slack Off
- U-Turn
- Aromatherapy
- Spectral Thief

Gigas could be replaced with Arceus or Slaking, but it isn't neccesary.

As your other comment that Shell Smash outclasses Shift Gear-it isn't clear cut. Both these suggestions you make are not clear cut. Most of the PH community agrees that Harvest Slaking is better than Harvest Regigigas. But does Harvest Regigigas have a niche and is still usable? Yes.

Shell Smash is generally better than Shift Gear, but if a mon wants to retain some bulk Shift Gear is still usable and isn't exactly worse.

I also looked at the paste and realized that Gengar was Shadow Tag, I agree it should be Parental Bond.
PBond Gengar also doesn't have to run those moves. It's just whatever coverage it wants to run or the team can impproof. Searing Shot is also an option for instance for Ferrothorn or Mega Scizor. Volt Switch is nice for pivot. Photon is fine, just not neccesary and usually outclassed by other coverage.

Since no one talked about it

Rayquaza-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Oblivion Wing
- Photon Geyser
- Draining Kiss

Draining Kiss isn't as useful as other moves, I would reccomend Moongeist over it. Pinging LemonLime78 because I didn't ping them.