Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

This nonsense is being taken way more seriously than it deserves. Aco2’s argument is mainly based on the fact that the council members (who he shaded personally for no reason? like what?) during the ban are no longer on the current council.

Taking a moment to remember that Pokemon is a game played with Pokemon and not Smogon Members, it can be observed that the only major new hurdles for chi-yu are wellspring, raging bolt and probably hoodra. This issue is not even that all of these mons share a lot of checks like hands, max def luna, drago. It’s that they all win the matchup by statchecking chi-yu.

It is still very clear that the traditional ways of blanking strong attackers still fail against chi-yu. There is no way to setup on chi-yu. There is no way stall it out after tricking it. There are very few custap users that can reliably fight back. There is 1 subseeder that can handle most (but not all) chi-yu sets.

You can say that the sets jumping through 6 hoops to beat bolt/pon/prim are bad (and they likely are), but the reason that Chi-Yu is still able to do this against nearly the entire vr is indicative of a deficiency. Almost all of Chi-Yus checks can only give it 1 turn of action at most and they live or die on whether or not their move kos. The counterplay (and counter-counterplay) remains the same despite the passage of time.

Anyway I took the bait like a chump. Let’s go back to real 1v1 now ^_^
i didnt diss any members lol I was pointing out how since chi yu has been banned half the council has retired and that we have never thought to retest it. I provided evidence to disprove the claims made my glitched
I didnt even mention (for the most part) the good ground types/ rock types/ fighting types that beat this thing like boulder and a-hisui)
 
136 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 308-364 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
-1 20 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Rock Tomb vs. 8 HP / 196 Def Landorus-Therian: 39-47 (12.1 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
-1 20 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Ice Punch vs. 8 HP / 196 Def Landorus-Therian: 200-236 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 328-388 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
-1 4 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Rock Tomb vs. 8 HP / 196 Def Landorus-Therian: 39-47 (12.1 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
-1 4 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Ice Punch vs. 8 HP / 196 Def Landorus-Therian: 196-232 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Bro thinks he cooked.... There's no use of bulking hoopa with max max hp def when u can't ko with ice punch after 1 speed drop on landorus-t.
Uh when I use basic mathematics, rock tomb + ice punch damage according to ur calc is 14.6 + 73.5 (highest rolls) = 88.1%.
 
Bro thinks he cooked.... There's no use of bulking hoopa with max max hp def when u can't ko with ice punch after 1 speed drop on landorus-t.
Uh when I use basic mathematics, rock tomb + ice punch damage according to ur calc is 14.6 + 73.5 (highest rolls) = 88.1%.
you dumbass we have rocky helmet
Screen Shot 2025-01-24 at 9.30.37 PM.png

Screen Shot 2025-01-24 at 9.35.12 PM.png

thats 16-17% damage + the 88.1%
Screen Shot 2025-01-24 at 9.37.14 PM.png

thats 104% total damage, that lando got it's 100% LOL
104% > 100%
you dumbass, read that full set L:psysly:
 
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I hit high 1500s with this team like 3 times, specs pz is my goat i would kiss them if i could


Dondozo @ Choice Band
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Wave Crash
- Heavy Slam

Porygon-Z @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Uproar

Iron Hands @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 152 HP / 84 Atk / 56 Def / 216 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Supercell Slam
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
 
you dumbass we have rocky helmet
View attachment 707440
View attachment 707441
thats 16-17% damage + the 88.1%
View attachment 707443
thats 104% total damage, that lando got it's 100% LOL
104% > 100%
you dumbass, read that full set L:psysly:
naa this set is cringe! Me and Tgo used to use this when there was no u-turn shit in meta and we wanted to survive choice banded close combat move.
Now about the set ur talking, Not every Landorus-Therian needs U-turn to fight vs :hoopa-unbound:
Just to counter 1 mon (where winning chance is like 1-2%), you are just ruining other matchups with no assault vest or any choice item.
Banded/Life Orb/Av any sort of set can clap ur set.

Banded Landorus-T
0 Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 220-259 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 408-484 (112 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Damage In return by hoopa-u if u are able to outspeed even after 1 speed drop :totodiLUL::totodiLUL: (WHICH ISN'T POSSIBLE)
-1 0 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Rock Tomb vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 48-57 (13.2 - 15.7%) -- possible 7HKO
-1 0 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Ice Punch vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 240-284 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

LO Landorus-T
No Need Of U-Turn when u can just win by clicking bulk up t1 or eq t1

AV Landorus-T
Buldoze + Earthquake and ur dead

:blobstop::blobstop::blobstop: Don't even think to disrespect :landorus-therian: again by saying :hoopa-unbound: walls it :blobstop::blobstop::blobstop:

Iron Hands @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 152 HP / 84 Atk / 56 Def / 216 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Supercell Slam
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
I would like to request you to add heavy slam in your iron hands set or else :ninetales-alola: can be a problem. gz for reaching 1500!
my volcarona is 300 speed, urs is 299
if u psychic I calm mind/hydro cannon
wisp loses to specs, all chi yu lose to spa invest scarf
252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 393-463 (156.5 - 184.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO, u could run 252 hp 252 def to win but atp ur just running a bad set (which as we established w crown does not make smth good)
ok I trailblaze t1 with offensive pon and win
u win against urshifu (the dark one at least) but the opportunity cost is not worth running at all but now u lose to ursaluna which u countered earlier as well as losing to ogerpon (which again u countered earlier) and also losing to things like zapdos (which im pretty sure u beat earlier)
I would say the same thing what driplegend said that if u think chi-yu isn't that good/balanced, ask RADU to make 1 ubers chi-yu thread thing if it's possible (completely bad idea though lol). I would say start checking this metagame discussion thread from page 1 and you will see what sort of sets were made and why it got banned? The sets made are still viable and broken or not?
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/inferno-chi-yu-quickbanned.3714580/
 
Water types not named primarina seem extremely good right now (might be the most overrated pokemon in the tier).
:blastoise: :manaphy: :urshifu rapid-strike: and friends are insanely good. Blastoise especially. Run life orb and watch it delete stuff.
Code:
Blastoise @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 24 HP / 236 Def / 204 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Cannon
- Hyper Beam
- Substitute

:ursaluna: this pokemon also fell of hard, :landorus-therian: is king again.
Code:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 116 HP / 48 Atk / 252 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Bulldoze
- Rock Tomb

my favorite :corviknight: set:
Code:
Corviknight @ Maranga Berry
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 204 HP / 224 SpD / 80 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Taunt
- Roost
- Iron Defense

I agree with bobobson that :iron valiant: is top tier. Insane preview pressure and its choice sets are useable. Not a fan of overly quirky sets though, just play into the pokemons strengths and its solid.

:pecharunt: is still stupid, mostly cause its ability is so rng-creating. Way too many dark type pokemon lose if they get a single confusion hit and given its a pecharunt its always getting at least 1 malignant chain off.
 
One last thing: I am tired of the uncertainty that :hoopa-unbound: brings.
Yes this pokemon is beatable. Yes, its defense is terrible.
But when you're staring it down at preview unless you have a few very specific counters it never feels safe to click versus it.
It totally may be a skill issue on my end, but this pokemon is just not fun from a teambuilding and playing perspective.
Its raw versatility means that you can't outbulk it on the physical or special side and all it needs to do to 3-0 so many teams is just randomly slot in a coverage move or trick or something random, etc.
 
One last thing: I am tired of the uncertainty that :hoopa-unbound: brings.
Yes this pokemon is beatable. Yes, its defense is terrible.
But when you're staring it down at preview unless you have a few very specific counters it never feels safe to click versus it.
It totally may be a skill issue on my end, but this pokemon is just not fun from a teambuilding and playing perspective.
Its raw versatility means that you can't outbulk it on the physical or special side and all it needs to do to 3-0 so many teams is just randomly slot in a coverage move or trick or something random, etc.

I was going to write a post about this thing tomorrow, but I'll just make a shorter one to say that I agree. Hoopa-U is way too versatile and it's not healthy when a lot of the argument for keeping this Pokemon comes down to it losing to random Bug-type moves. I really do not want to build in a metagame in which this Pokemon is likely the best Pokemon in the tier, and really would not want to see this thing be around for PL.
 
I will probably write a more streamlined and expansive version of this later, but we don't need any action on Hoopa-U.

The versatility of a mon always has to be weighed with the opportunity cost of each set and the fact that it cannot be every set at once. People overcomplicate mons with any amount of set diversity, and this is no exception. Looking at its main sets (AV, Specs, Band, Custap, Scarf) all of them lose a good few core matchups while typically gaining less. You can reasonably split your hoopa checks to cover less likely sets, this mon loses all aura on preview immediately. Further, nicher sets (Things like fast taunt sets, mixed LO) are even worse at preserving core matchups. At that point, the ambiguity of its previews is directly a disadvantage for it.
It is obviously the best dark type in the tier and nearing the best psychic, and possibly the highest skill mon in the tier, but it's not broken and doesn't need action imo.
 
y'all i'm gonna be completely honest the metagame discussion chat in 1v1 has been nothing more than toxicity every single day, i know that saying it won't change anything and i know that someone like drip could say that i should be the change i wish to see, but it's not something i'm highly worried about rn, what i am worried about rn is people just spreading misinformation and getting super salty over different opinions, as much as i hate mini-modding felucia is in loa and lost heros is busy with tlt so: please take it easy in there, for the sake of the community. i'm not saying it as a council member or someone with status i'm genuinely like worried about y'all so please just relax, and discuss.

now as a council member uhhh i guess i do have stuff to say about the recent developments in the metagame and what people are saying in both discord and smogon, so i shall try.

:lugia::dragonite: - now people are really throwing around the meaning of a complex ban and stuff and there's a whole thread so i'll just give you the tl;dr of that, banning multiscale is not a complex ban, it is a regular ban with the added effect of unbanning a specific pokemon. that said i will regurgitate what radu said earlier, it is (for the most part) a signature ability. it is exclusive to dragonite and lugia and while lugia is an uber with humongo stats that shouldn't even be considered, dragonite has middling to good stats while having multiscale and a huge movepool that includes encore, roost, dragon dance, etc. point is that this guy is broken af, in part thanks to multiscale, in part thanks to other stuff like its great movepool, now the main reason why this shouldn't be allowed is because this isn't how tiering works, you may think it doesn't matter, but sometimes it do, because this would be like banning libero just because cinderace has it even though raboot is right there and it's terrible, opposite example include how diglett saw use after dugtrio got banned due to arena trap, or bidoof using moody in ubers, and this is sort of why we mainly ban pokemon, not abilities or moves or items, we never banned booster energy even though that's what made scream tail, flutter and gouging really good and also what makes iron valiant unhealthy to some, we never banned dire claw despite complaints due to it being a move stuck on a pokemon that only would use it for losing matchups or for the double poison move, and we never banned multiscale for 5 years and we chose to ban dragonite instead.
tl;dr multiscale is probably not getting banned.

i don't feel like talking about hoopa-u atm maybe i'll do it later. once again i ask that your posts remain in-place and that debates in #meta-discussion remain civil, ty and gn.
 
imagine being in the 1v1 discord smh!
I WILL BE MAKING A BIGGER, MORE EXPANSIVE AND MASSIVE POST "LATER" DETAILING EVERY SINGLE MATCHUP WITH HOOPA-UNBOUND, EVERY SET AND MOVE AND EV SPREAD AS WELL.
:lugia::dragonite: - now people are really throwing around the meaning of a complex ban and stuff and there's a whole thread so i'll just give you the tl;dr of that, banning multiscale is not a complex ban, it is a regular ban with the added effect of unbanning a specific pokemon. that said i will regurgitate what radu said earlier, it is (for the most part) a signature ability. it is exclusive to dragonite and lugia and while lugia is an uber with humongo stats that shouldn't even be considered, dragonite has middling to good stats while having multiscale and a huge movepool that includes encore, roost, dragon dance, etc. point is that this guy is broken af, in part thanks to multiscale, in part thanks to other stuff like its great movepool, now the main reason why this shouldn't be allowed is because this isn't how tiering works, you may think it doesn't matter, but sometimes it do, because this would be like banning libero just because cinderace has it even though raboot is right there and it's terrible, opposite example include how diglett saw use after dugtrio got banned due to arena trap, or bidoof using moody in ubers, and this is sort of why we mainly ban pokemon, not abilities or moves or items, we never banned booster energy even though that's what made scream tail, flutter and gouging really good and also what makes iron valiant unhealthy to some, we never banned dire claw despite complaints due to it being a move stuck on a pokemon that only would use it for losing matchups or for the double poison move, and we never banned multiscale for 5 years and we chose to ban dragonite instead.
Unlike your examples Dragonite doesn't have a baby form or any other mon that gets Multiscale that can be used, unlike something with Libero (because at least Raboot was somewhat viable?) so I think Dragonite could be interesting to use with the addition of Encore.

Also Hoopa kinda mid ngl, hard to fit on teams but yes it is annoying so I personally wouldn't care if it got banned

and maybe axe half of the sv council cuz it takes centuries to ban one guy

and tlt is bad

Thanks for reading :)
 
:lugia::dragonite: - now people are really throwing around the meaning of a complex ban and stuff and there's a whole thread so i'll just give you the tl;dr of that, banning multiscale is not a complex ban, it is a regular ban with the added effect of unbanning a specific pokemon. that said i will regurgitate what radu said earlier, it is (for the most part) a signature ability. it is exclusive to dragonite and lugia and while lugia is an uber with humongo stats that shouldn't even be considered, dragonite has middling to good stats while having multiscale and a huge movepool that includes encore, roost, dragon dance, etc. point is that this guy is broken af, in part thanks to multiscale, in part thanks to other stuff like its great movepool, now the main reason why this shouldn't be allowed is because this isn't how tiering works, you may think it doesn't matter, but sometimes it do, because this would be like banning libero just because cinderace has it even though raboot is right there and it's terrible, opposite example include how diglett saw use after dugtrio got banned due to arena trap, or bidoof using moody in ubers, and this is sort of why we mainly ban pokemon, not abilities or moves or items, we never banned booster energy even though that's what made scream tail, flutter and gouging really good and also what makes iron valiant unhealthy to some, we never banned dire claw despite complaints due to it being a move stuck on a pokemon that only would use it for losing matchups or for the double poison move, and we never banned multiscale for 5 years and we chose to ban dragonite instead.
tl;dr multiscale is probably not getting banned.
This post fails to realize why I mentioned the thought of unbanning Multiscale in the first place.

The comparison of libero, moody, or booster energy is a poor argument when other Pokémon get the move. Yes lugia gets Multiscale but realistically w/o it, lugia will still be banned and a suspect is a waste of time.

In this tier, Dragonite is the sworn user of Multiscale. You have also failed the realization of the banning of last respects in ou and especially power construct in ss 1v1. Dire claw is just rng the move but from what I’ve seen, nothing really changes even if it was ban.

Your reasoning for the banning of Dragonite instead did Multiscale is flawed and in this specific case with Dragonite, it doesn’t matter. At most, it’ll matter for different tiers since Dragonite has a different movepool across gens, Even if a sv dnite was busted, a fucking bw dnite wouldn’t in my dyes.

Tbh your post seems to be super flawed with why Dragonite should be banned instead of Multiscale with things that realistically aren’t comparable to Multiscale when in this case, Dragonite is the sole user unlike stuff like booster energy, libero.

Which justifies the banning of only Multiscale even more.
 
There are two conditions that must be met in order to ban an ability or move instead of the Pokemon using them.

1) The ability / move must be broken on every abuser. These are 6v6 examples but you see this with stuff like Arena Trap, where people were using Diglett once Dugtrio was banned, leading to an Arena Trap ban. A 1v1 example of this condition not being met would be Libero, where Libero Raboot is perfectly fine, but Libero Cinderace is too much. While this condition is technically met due to the lack of weak abusers, in theory there could be reasonable Multiscale Pokemon in the future.

2) There must be multiple abusers that would be legal if the ability / move is banned. This condition is not met since Dragonite would be the only Pokemon unbanned from a Multiscale ban. Lugia would still be way too much for the tier. Some precedent of this (again 6v6 but still) is the Last Respects situation. All of the abusers were broken, but at first there was only one abuser (Houndstone), so the abuser was banned, but when another abuser was introduced (Basculegion), the move was banned instead.

I know people will and have brought up the SS Zygarde ban, it's a weird situation since technically all of the Zygarde forms are under one Pokedex number, so I don't know.

Either way, banning Multiscale over Dragonite, like it or not, is just against tiering policy.
 
This post fails to realize why I mentioned the thought of unbanning Multiscale in the first place.

The comparison of libero, moody, or booster energy is a poor argument when other Pokémon get the move. Yes lugia gets Multiscale but realistically w/o it, lugia will still be banned and a suspect is a waste of time.

In this tier, Dragonite is the sworn user of Multiscale. You have also failed the realization of the banning of last respects in ou and especially power construct in ss 1v1. Dire claw is just rng the move but from what I’ve seen, nothing really changes even if it was ban.

Your reasoning for the banning of Dragonite instead did Multiscale is flawed and in this specific case with Dragonite, it doesn’t matter. At most, it’ll matter for different tiers since Dragonite has a different movepool across gens, Even if a sv dnite was busted, a fucking bw dnite wouldn’t in my dyes.

Tbh your post seems to be super flawed with why Dragonite should be banned instead of Multiscale with things that realistically aren’t comparable to Multiscale when in this case, Dragonite is the sole user unlike stuff like booster energy, libero.

Which justifies the banning of only Multiscale even more.
Except this is still a fundamental deviation from standard tiering practice.

RTM put it above the best in that we don't tier in order to try to nerf or buff pokemon. That's not our job.

Sure multiscale is only legal on Dragonite, and maybe if we only have Inner Focus Dragonite, it will probably be balanced, but that opens up the question for a lot of other weird bans and weird questions.

Would Regidrago be fine if we only remove Dragon Energy?
Would Archaludon be fine if we only remove Electro Shot?
Would Magearna be fine without Fleur Cannon?

If we start looking at some of our top tier pokemon who *may* be overbearing:
Would Iron Crown be considered less banworthy without Tachyon Cutter?
Would Hoopa-U be easier to deal with if there's no Hyperspace Fury?

The list goes on. Even though these bans aren't technically complex, they all still target a unique element to try and bring the overall abuser in line with the rest of the tier, and while this may sound appealing, this goes against the predominant smogon philosophy that we tier whole elements to the best of our ability.

It's a lot of reading but the discussion about Terapagos-Stellar might help give some insight on to why this isn't really an option.
 
One last thing: I am tired of the uncertainty that :hoopa-unbound: brings.
Yes this pokemon is beatable. Yes, its defense is terrible.
But when you're staring it down at preview unless you have a few very specific counters it never feels safe to click versus it.
It totally may be a skill issue on my end, but this pokemon is just not fun from a teambuilding and playing perspective.
Its raw versatility means that you can't outbulk it on the physical or special side and all it needs to do to 3-0 so many teams is just randomly slot in a coverage move or trick or something random, etc.
Dw fruan I got you
 
Keep seeing little things I disagree with whenever ppl dm me/ask for tests/a certain tft player pings me and I realized how little exists talking about the actual game of 1v1. Don't have the time or will for a proper guide but (maybe) enjoy some annotated discord messages.

1749271639552.png










  • I've never found it very helpful to analyze picking patterns over a large sum of games/series. Every preview is different and everyone is always capable of making switchups.​
  • If someone has 15 replays where they load 2 standards + a quirky and they always pick a quirky, there will be no replays where the thought process was "im gonna click the quirky bc thats what i always do." Assuming they are trying to win, there something that they are seeing that makes them think its just the best option (the set flipping a matchup, the set being a practical 3-0, their opponent having an unset etc.).​
  • RE: above point. "Assuming they are trying to win" is not a given assumption (it probably is in PL). By nature, the game of 1v1 gets partially spoiled if someone literally rng clicks or just picks stuff they think will look fun to win with. Theres some hedging of that effect by loading better mons/finding midgrounds but bad faith play is capable of beating good faith play.​
  • In general, I dont think lures (like occa metagross type stuff) are a great thing to load for the above reasons. Even if they hit, theres often still some level of uncertainity + more often than not multiple different types of uncertainity. You should be able to feel good about everything you click in 1v1.​

1749271843828.png

  • The cognitive element of 1v1 being this way is why its always better to have a player that builds for themself than one who doesnt assuming equal levels of play/team quality. Its way easier to figure out the material facts of a preview when you are extremely familiar with your own teams strengths and weaknesseses.
tried to avoid absolute dictums cuz im washed after 1 good tour + every now and then theres a player like tears/giboney who can find consistent success doing things in ways no one else can even think to. Rooting for mega rays.
 
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I've never found it very helpful to analyze picking patterns over a large sum of games/series. Every preview is different and everyone is always capable of making switchups.
I think generally speaking the view of watching whether people consistently pick 2-1s or 1-2s is wrong, because it boils thing down to a much too simplistic level. The reality is that there's a psychological factor I try to target that is "That Pokemon is scary into this preview, so this pick is kinda forced" and the way people react to this sentiment is somewhat consistent. There's a level of back and forth where people predict you will click into that specific Pokemon, and then people predict that you will think that, and it's a layered thought of where do you sit in that pyramid. And this is only on the basis of having the one key Pokemon that is scary, but the logistics apply for other thoughts like "I have two 2-1s but one of them is more reliable than the other" or when 50/50s and sequencing are involved.
In a scenario where a mon is a pseudo 3-0, there's a distinction between those who will click their best odds into it and those who will hope the opponent chokes and click one of the other two, and while it varies from MU to MU, I think certain people will be pretty consistent in their thinking during these scenarios.

When it comes to lures I think they are difficult to justify because you are already so vulnerable to many mons with a standard team, and unless your lure set is able to make a viable team composition (which either ends up giving you hella 1-2 mus or otherwise it's not actually a lure but just a good set) you end up punishing yourself in the hopes that it works, but the thing is: it works if you're smart about it. There's a certain privilege good players have that goes "there is no way he's just 3-0d by primarina"; if you're against someone who will respect this thought and you are able to mask your own sets in a way that cloaks that vulnerability, the lure becomes much stronger. I think in these scenarios people may even be scared to click the mon that looks like a 3-0, afraid of getting lured, which circles back to the fact that lures aren't actually worthwhile if your team looks 3-0d, you should always have a semi potential counter to it: which in turn means that the opponent may recognize the unreliable MU and pick something else entirely. Basically it requires a severe level of thought that nobody ever achieves if not by accident.
If 1v1 was an international esport with severe money on the line I think we would see much more in-depth and ridiculous shit, but the bottleneck of the tournament scene is that people rarely go beyond the "unset -> cover hitlist" ceiling.

Last tangent I wanna touch on that I think influences the 1v1 mindset pretty severely is luck: and I will stand my ground and say luck is a skill. As a person in control of their own teams, I gravitate towards mons that make me have a fallback instead of a liability. As the generic example, if your zardy counter is crustle, you are at the mercy of the air slash flinch, while from my pov even if I get outclicked i have my outs of winning. Given two equal skill players that consistently outclick each other and a long enough amount of games, the crustle zardy interaction will be played so much that even if we pick evenly I will still win 30% of all my losing matches, and come out on top. In the opposing scenario, I wouldn't even wanna pick crustle, cause I don't wanna be right and have to dodge that flinch. I think this has somehow gotten forgotten over the years, because years ago running focus blast on your mons was unheard of, and yet nowadays you stumble into people complaining about luck this and luck that while their gameplan into certain mons is "hit these inaccurate moves all in a row and don't get crit in the process".
 
When it comes to lures I think they are difficult to justify because you are already so vulnerable to many mons with a standard team, and unless your lure set is able to make a viable team composition (which either ends up giving you hella 1-2 mus or otherwise it's not actually a lure but just a good set) you end up punishing yourself in the hopes that it works, but the thing is: it works if you're smart about it. There's a certain privilege good players have that goes "there is no way he's just 3-0d by primarina"; if you're against someone who will respect this thought and you are able to mask your own sets in a way that cloaks that vulnerability, the lure becomes much stronger. I think in these scenarios people may even be scared to click the mon that looks like a 3-0, afraid of getting lured, which circles back to the fact that lures aren't actually worthwhile if your team looks 3-0d, you should always have a semi potential counter to it: which in turn means that the opponent may recognize the unreliable MU and pick something else entirely. Basically it requires a severe level of thought that nobody ever achieves if not by accident.
If 1v1 was an international esport with severe money on the line I think we would see much more in-depth and ridiculous shit, but the bottleneck of the tournament scene is that people rarely go beyond the "unset -> cover hitlist" ceiling.
I don't disagree with this. I should have been more precise in my wording, since tailoring a preview to force a certain reaction is the core premise of 1v1 prep. I'm strongly in favor of running offsets. One of the most powerful things in 1v1 is when you have a non-standard set that 2-1s but your opponents 1 mon looks inferior to the other choices from their pov. Was more referring to teams that are reliant on your opponent reacting to your preview in one highly specific way and has a highly compromised set that doesn't beat anything / loses matchups it cannot afford to lose. Obviously these teams still have a place, I've loaded them and many ppl better than me have too. It's more that they require a ton of thought and a lot of new players tend to treat them as the default when you are usually pretty content to just modify a val/volcanion/dragon. The cost of running jank is certainty and if the set isn't something you are willing to just put on any team then you need to really make sure you are getting your moneys worth.
 
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