Resource RBY Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread

Leader of the Rockets said:
So this just happened to me in a game. Idk if this is a bug or a mechanic I don't know about. But I had tuaros out vs my opponent's machamp. Neither of us were statused. I used hyper beam, and he used low kick. The next turn my recharge was completely skipped and I was able to attack. Anyone know why? Only thing I can think of is maybe something funny happened with low kick's flinch effect? idk.
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Low kick flinched, which clears the recharge flag but shows no message because Tauros had already moved.
 
Melbelle said:
if you flinch an hb user recharge is cancelled
but im not sure if it should apply when hit by a slower mon
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This is what I was thinking. I thought flinch could only take effect if the pokemon using the flinch inducing move was faster. That's why I was confused. I don't even understand how this would work unless, unbeknownst to most, recharge effectively acts as a third move within the turn after your opponent attacks?

EDIT: Just looked through the thread, and a few posts back was another user asking the same thing I did, as they were in the same situation. Apparently it isn't a bug, but can we get actual confirmation that this is how cartridge works? Is there a thread detailing this anywhere?
 
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Leader of the Rockets said:
This is what I was thinking. I thought flinch could only take effect if the pokemon using the flinch inducing move was faster. That's why I was confused. I don't even understand how this would work unless, unbeknownst to most, recharge effectively acts as a third move within the turn after your opponent attacks?

EDIT: Just looked through the thread, and a few posts back was another user asking the same thing I did, as they were in the same situation. Apparently it isn't a bug, but can we get actual confirmation that this is how cartridge works? Is there a thread detailing this anywhere?
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This is how cartridge works, I've reproduced it myself
 
Sabelette said:
This is how cartridge works, I've reproduced it myself
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Awesome! :D So, I'm guessing recharge does effectively work as a third move in the turn, which would also explain why sleep inducing moves also cancel recharge. In essence, it seems like recharge actually lasts two turns instead of one. Whenever hyperbeam is used, a second recharge move is then also activated which lasts TWO turns (the turn hyper beam is used in and the next turn). So when the recharge turn is canceled by a sleep inducing move, for example, it is actually no different from a sleep inducing move canceling out a mulit-turn move like rage. We just weren't aware of recharge behaving as a multi-turn move.
 
You’re way overcomplicating it, getting flinched at any point, even after your move, just removes the “must recharge” flag. There’s no third turn or whatever you’re talking about here
 
Not a third turn. A third move within the turn. Flinch necessarily needs a space within which to work, unless I'm just completely misunderstanding how flinch works to begin with. We think of flinch usually only working on slower pokemon. You low kick, then during your opponent's move, flinch is activated. But flinch necessarily needs your opponent's move upon which to work... unless it doesn't, in which case most of us do not understand how this move works. But you say, "getting flinched at any point," as if that statement is the most obvious thing in the world. Most of us were under the impression that flinch only worked during our (slower) opponent's move.
 
You are still overcomplicating it, the flinch trigger just clears the recharge flag regardless of if the opponent is currently flinchable, there is no third move within the turn and they do not get flinched, it's a simple quirk of the game code
 
I think maybe I'm just nerdier than the average pokemon player lol (if that's possible), but I can't be alone in thinking this is so fascinating. You are saying flinch has unofficial undocumented properties so nonchalantly, whereas I really would love to dig into why this quirk exists. But let's not run in circles. A conversation for another day. :D
 
A good way to think about it would be that a move can still "inflict" flinch even if it goes second, it's just that normally getting flinched doesn't do anything in that case - the inflicted flinch goes away at the end of the turn before it can be "activated", but it still got applied, and thus can trigger side-effects like getting rid of Hyper Beam recharge.
 
Sabelette said:
Hi, figured I'd answer this for you here. Recharging and flinching are both what are called "volatile status conditions." These are conditions like confusion, flinch, Ingrain, etc. that are not reflected as a permanent status like poison or burn. Basically, the way RBY's game code works is that any time a flinch happens, it removes the recharge volatile status flag if the flinched mon has it. This is done to prevent you from repeatedly flinching something on recharge so it can't ever move; partial trapping moves also clear the recharge flag for this reason. The game is also coded such that the flinch volatile status automatically clears at the end of each turn, which is why you never see a message or flinch if the Pokemon inflicting the flinch goes second. The devs missed the very obvious issue here that flinching a Pokemon after they had already moved still results in the flinch clearing the recharge flag, even though flinch gets cleared right after, before the next turn. Basically, it's a coding oversight.
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Leader of the Rockets said:
Ah, so flinch is affecting faster pokemon all the time, we simply never notice, because it gets cleared immediately after. We are only ever made privy to this in rare instances, such as when recharge is made to skip. So I was wrong in calling recharge a "move," but I was right in that it does seem to last two turns. It's a volatile status that last two turns which can be replaced by the flinch volatile status, which is then immediately cleared. My intuitions weren't too far off. Thanks for all the information. Never knew about volatile status conditions before. That's super interesting!
Sabelette said:
I suppose technically it lasts from the end of one mon’s turn till the end of its next turn, which is a bit weird in terms of game time, but it’s still a 1 turn long recharge. It’s just measured from when the mon acts rather than the turn counter, if that makes sense
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Sabelette explained it thoroughly to me. I'll leave this here for anyone else who runs into this quirk.
 
Dude what the fuck is SU, these tiers don't make any sense. Smogon seriously needs to adopt a numerical convention. I already don't know which of PU or ZU is supposed to be higher, never mind idk QU or whatever else people come up with

edit: although I get why stuff like OU/UU/NU wouldn't like this because those terms have been around forever (I disagree btw), I think anything below NU shouldn't persist with meaningless letters and should instead use numbers so it's actually clear where they fit within the system

old man yells at sky.jpeg
 
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Ortheore said:
Dude what the fuck is SU, these tiers don't make any sense. Smogon seriously needs to adopt a numerical convention. I already don't know which of PU or ZU is supposed to be higher, never mind idk QU or whatever else people come up with

edit: although I get why stuff like OU/UU/NU wouldn't like this because those terms have been around forever (I disagree btw), I think anything below NU shouldn't persist with meaningless letters and should instead use numbers so it's actually clear where they fit within the system

old man yells at sky.jpeg
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it goes OU UU NU PU ZU SU. using a hybrid letter/number system would confuse people, especially given that the number system is a pokemonperfect legacy and people (mostly me) sometimes still refer to old 2U 3U 4U with those names and they were fairly different tiers

i think the system is fine, you just need to learn what they are once and then you will just know forever
 
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The frustrating thing about that is that we didn't do that on Pokemon Perfect to be different, it was because we saw it as an upgrade. I'm pretty sure Lutra's said that the numerical convention was intended to improve upon smogon's convention and not just be a PP thing
 
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