No offense but that's really boring and would br hard to code
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Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
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This cuts off a lot of pokemons moves- besides body press, most pokemon use move that ARE stab, so it seems quite limiting. A lot of successful OMs INCREASE a pokemons toolkit instead of the opposite. Obviously different people have different takes, but I always play OMs that give creative freedom
Yeah, I wish it wasn't too limiting with most mons using stab often, but what can really be done...
I will say it is one of the more bigger factors that been stuck in my head for a while when it comes to this. Though the main point of the OM is to be a bit more strict on moves and forcing a bit more creativity overall... hence the 'anti' part.
While it does force people to get a bit unique with their kits, it might lead to a few types being way more powerful than others, which is one of the higher concerns I have. I'm looking at you dragon... and potentially steel.
One thing about it is that pokemon with deep movepools will be very common- Scream tail might be good, as with specs and Max sp.atk, boomburst, flamethrower, ice beam and thunderbolt could do good damage without breaking the rules of the meta. Also, if say a Pixilate Sylveon used hyper voice, would that be allowed or not because the base move wasn't stab? The Pixilate and Galvanise abilties makes some problems
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Howdy, Workshop folks! Here’s another idea for you all to ponder.
High ‘n Dry
What’s High ‘n Dry?
High ‘n Dry is an OM with a cool twist that aims to expand the pool of competitively viable attacking options, while also shaking up reliance on the type chart. By emulating Freeze-Dry, the unique Ice type attack that hits the normally resisted Water type for super effective damage, combatants can enhance any low powered attack for added power and coverage, while still taking advantage of any handy secondary effects.
The “High…”
Attack moves default to a minimum of 70 base power. This means attacking moves that normally fall below this threshold get a power increase!
And the “Dry”!
70 BP attacking moves can now be augmented with an additional type effectiveness of the user’s choosing! The enhanced effectiveness of these “Dry Moves” is determined by their users’ selected Tera type.
How do Dry Moves enhance type effectiveness?
These changes grant new viability to all sorts of attacking moves normally too weak to be used in competitive play, as well as subpar attacking types like Normal, Grass, Bug, Poison and Psychic. Water, Steel and Fairy’s centralization as defensive types are also bound to take a hit.
Besides providing their users with enhanced coverage options that flip type interactions on their head, many of these moves also have useful secondary effects which prove useful in battle, such as debuff moves like Bulldoze or Chilling Water or stat enhancers like Trailblaze or Mystical Power. Other low power moves that provide essential utility such as Rapid Spin, Dragon Tail, Draining Kiss and Salt Cure get even better!
Here’s my early thoughts on restrictions as the following moves would be blatantly uncompetitive with the proposed buffs. The multi-hitting moves ranging from 140 BP up to 350 BP with Loaded Dice/Skill Link isn’t going to fly, and stuff like pivot moves, strong priority, Knock with extra power and less resists/no immunities just sounds silly.
Questions to consider
Q: “How do Dry Moves affect dual-types that normally have 4x resists?”
A: “Similarly to Freeze-Dry, they even out to become neutral hits.
For instance, Freeze-Dry hits Lapras neutrally, by virtue of hitting its Water type super effectively, while being resisted by Ice. Dry Moves function similarly. A Bug-type Dry Move targeting either Flying or Steel would one of hit Corviknight’s types super effectively, but break even from the other type resistance to hit neutrally.”
Q: “How do Dry Moves with variable base power (Facade, Acrobatics, Reversal, Gyro Ball, Stored Power, Weather Ball, etc.) scale from the minimum value of 70? Do the higher powered versions of these moves retain their enhanced effectiveness?
A: “We wouldn’t know this until it’s been coded. Some may need restrictions if they scale from 70 BP while maintaining their Dry Moves buffs.”
Q: “How does Technician interact with Dry Moves?”
A: “As Technician boosts attacks with 60 BP or lower, the pool of moves available for Technician boosts is limited in this format. However, there are still applications for Technician where multi-hit move restrictions apply, such as Breloom using Bullet Seed or Maushold using Population Bomb.”
Q: “What if my Pokémon doesn’t use a Dry Move? Does my chosen Tera type become useless?”
A: “While your chosen Tera type will not provide a mechanical advantage to enhance an attack, you can still use it as a bluff to make your opponent to think twice about switching in.
There is also one more niche purpose; Struggle will deal enhanced effectiveness on your chosen type, should the user run out of PP.”
Q: “How do Dry Moves with secondary status effects change on targeted types? Can Dry-Poison attacks status Steel or Poison types?”
A: “The type effectiveness applies to damage dealt, not status. Just as Fire types are naturally immune to burns, Steel and Poison types are naturally immune to poison status (unless the user also has Corrosion).
However, types without natural immunities to status can now be statused by targeted Dry Moves they would normally be immune to. For instance, Ground types will be able to be paralyzed by targeted Electric-type Dry Moves, as Ground types are not naturally immune to paralysis.”
Q: “How do Dry Moves interact with abilities?”
A: “Dry Moves do not override ability interactions, so a Pokémon with Water Absorb will always be immune to Water moves, and Purifying Salt will always provide a Ghost resistance. (This does not take into account Mold Breaker or Neutralizing Gas where abilities would be nullified.)”
Proposed Format Clause:
Dry Moves Clause
Excluding restrictions, attack moves default to a minimum of 70 base power.
Rather than changing the user’s typing, Tera types make the following changes to the effectiveness of the user’s 70 BP attacks against that type:
———-
I’ve always enjoyed Freeze-Dry as a concept, being a fun option on mons like Kyruem and Iron Bundle. Gaining a bunch of “new” attacks with fun secondary effects/utility would make this format ripe for experimentation, and I feel like trading raw power for weaker STAB coverage is a fine trade off that benefits almost every single mon.
Generally speaking, these changes benefit offense a bit more that defense, mainly by virtue of decentralizing Water, Steel and Fairy as defensive types, but even defensive mons can benefit from the mechanic (examples, Clefable can use a buffed Draining Kiss, Amoongus Absorb/Clear Smog, Pex - Chill Water, etc.) On the flip side, targeting Ghosts with Rapid Spin also stands to make hazards less centralizing as well.
Dry Moves Clause
Excluding restrictions, attack moves default to a minimum of 70 base power.
Rather than changing the user’s typing, Tera types make the following changes to the effectiveness of the user’s 70 BP attacks against that type:
- Immunities become neutral hits.
- Resisted hits become super effective (x2).
- Neutral hits become super effective (x4).
- Super effective hits (x2) become 8x effective.
———-
I’ve always enjoyed Freeze-Dry as a concept, being a fun option on mons like Kyruem and Iron Bundle. Gaining a bunch of “new” attacks with fun secondary effects/utility would make this format ripe for experimentation, and I feel like trading raw power for weaker STAB coverage is a fine trade off that benefits almost every single mon.
Generally speaking, these changes benefit offense a bit more that defense, mainly by virtue of decentralizing Water, Steel and Fairy as defensive types, but even defensive mons can benefit from the mechanic (examples, Clefable can use a buffed Draining Kiss, Amoongus Absorb/Clear Smog, Pex - Chill Water, etc.) On the flip side, targeting Ghosts with Rapid Spin also stands to make hazards less centralizing as well.
High ‘n Dry
What’s High ‘n Dry?
High ‘n Dry is an OM with a cool twist that aims to expand the pool of competitively viable attacking options, while also shaking up reliance on the type chart. By emulating Freeze-Dry, the unique Ice type attack that hits the normally resisted Water type for super effective damage, combatants can enhance any low powered attack for added power and coverage, while still taking advantage of any handy secondary effects.
The “High…”
Attack moves default to a minimum of 70 base power. This means attacking moves that normally fall below this threshold get a power increase!
And the “Dry”!
70 BP attacking moves can now be augmented with an additional type effectiveness of the user’s choosing! The enhanced effectiveness of these “Dry Moves” is determined by their users’ selected Tera type.
All of the following moves now default to a minimum of 70 Base Power and can hit an additional type for enhanced effectiveness with their users’ chosen Tera type. All these moves are more viable now, but especially notable ones have been bolded.
Move | Type | Category | Description |
|---|---|---|---|
Absorb | Special | User recovers 50% of the damage dealt. | |
Acid | Special | 10% chance to lower the foe(s) Sp. Def by 1. | |
Acid Spray | Special | 100% chance to lower the target's Sp. Def by 2. | |
Acrobatics | Physical | Power doubles if the user has no held item. | |
Aerial Ace | Physical | This move does not check accuracy. | |
Air Cutter | Special | High critical hit ratio. | |
Ancient Power | Special | 10% chance to raise all stats by 1 (not acc/eva). | |
Aqua Cutter | Physical | High critical hit ratio. | |
Assurance | Physical | Power doubles if target was damaged this turn. | |
Astonish | Physical | 30% chance to make the target flinch. | |
Aurora Beam | Special | 10% chance to lower the target's Attack by 1. | |
Avalanche | Physical | Power doubles if user is damaged by the target. | |
Barb Barrage | Physical | 50% psn. 2x power if target already poisoned. | |
Bind | Physical | Traps and damages the target for 4-5 turns. | |
Bite | Physical | 30% chance to make the target flinch. | |
Branch Poke | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Breaking Swipe | Physical | 100% chance to lower the foe(s) Attack by 1. | |
Brine | Special | Power doubles if the target's HP is 50% or less. | |
Brutal Swing | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Bubble Beam | Special | 10% chance to lower the target's Speed by 1. | |
Bug Bite | Physical | User steals and eats the target's Berry. | |
Bulldoze | Physical | 100% chance to lower the foe(s) Speed by 1. | |
Bullet Punch | Physical | Usually goes first. | |
Burning Jealousy | Special | 100% burns a target that had a stat rise this turn. | |
Charge Beam | Special | 70% chance to raise the user's Sp. Atk by 1. | |
Chilling Water | Special | 100% chance to lower the target's Attack by 1. | |
Circle Throw | Physical | Forces the target to switch to a random ally. | |
Clear Smog | Special | Resets all of the target's stat stages to 0. | |
Covet | Physical | If the user has no item, it steals the target's. | |
Cross Poison | Physical | High critical hit ratio. 10% chance to poison. | |
Cut | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Disarming Voice | Special | This move does not check accuracy. Hits foes. | |
Dragon Breath | Special | 30% chance to paralyze the target. | |
Dragon Tail | Physical | Forces the target to switch to a random ally. | |
Draining Kiss | Special | User recovers 75% of the damage dealt. | |
Dual Wingbeat | Physical | Hits 2 times in one turn. | |
Echoed Voice | Special | Power increases when used on consecutive turns. | |
Electroweb | Special | 100% chance to lower the foe(s) Speed by 1. | |
Ember | Special | 10% chance to burn the target. | |
Facade | Physical | Power doubles if user is statused. | |
Fairy Wind | Special | No additional effect. | |
Fake Out | Physical | Hits first. First turn out only. 100% flinch chance. | |
False Swipe | Physical | Always leaves the target with at least 1 HP. | |
Feint | Physical | Nullifies protection moves. | |
Fell Stinger | Physical | Raises user's Attack by 3 if this KOes the target. | |
Fire Fang | Physical | 10% chance to burn. 10% chance to flinch. | |
Fire Spin | Special | Traps and damages the target for 4-5 turns. | |
Flail | Physical | More power the less HP the user has left. | |
Flame Charge | Physical | 100% chance to raise the user's Speed by 1. | |
Flame Wheel | Physical | 10% chance to burn the target. Thaws user. | |
Fling | Physical | Flings the user's item at the target. Power varies. | |
Force Palm | Special | 30% chance to paralyze the target. | |
Freeze-Dry | Special | 10% chance to freeze. Super effective on Water. | |
Frost Breath | Special | Always results in a critical hit. | |
Fury Cutter | - | Physical | Power doubles on hit, up to 160. |
Glaciate | Special | 100% chance to lower the foe(s) Speed by 1. | |
Grass Knot | Special | More power the heavier the target. | |
Gust | Special | Power doubles during Bounce, Fly, and Sky Drop. | |
Gyro Ball | Physical | More power the slower the user than the target. | |
Hard Press | Physical | More power the more HP the target has left. | |
Headbutt | Physical | 30% chance to make the target flinch. | |
Hex | Special | Power doubles if the target has a status ailment. | |
Hold Back | Physical | Always leaves the target with at least 1 HP. | |
Horn Attack | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Ice Fang | Physical | 10% chance to freeze. 10% chance to flinch. | |
Icy Wind | Special | 100% chance to lower the foe(s) Speed by 1. | |
Incinerate | Special | Destroys the foe(s) Berry/Gem. | |
Infernal Parade | Special | 30% burn. 2x power if target is already statused. | |
Infestation | Special | Traps and damages the target for 4-5 turns. | |
Jet Punch | Physical | Usually goes first. | |
Leafage | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Lick | Physical | 30% chance to paralyze the target. | |
Low Kick | Physical | More power the heavier the target. | |
Low Sweep | Physical | 100% chance to lower the target's Speed by 1. | |
Mega Drain | Special | User recovers 50% of the damage dealt. | |
Metal Claw | Physical | 10% chance to raise the user's Attack by 1. | |
Mortal Spin | Physical | Poisons foes, frees user from hazards/bind/leech. | |
Mud-Slap | - | Special | 100% chance to lower the target's Accuracy by 1. |
Mud Shot | Special | 100% chance to lower the target's Speed by 1. | |
Mystical Power | Special | 100% chance to raise the user's Sp. Atk by 1. | |
Night Slash | Physical | High critical hit ratio. | |
Parabolic Charge | Special | User recovers 50% of the damage dealt. | |
Pay Day | Physical | Scatters coins. | |
Payback | Physical | Power doubles if the user moves after the target. | |
Peck | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Pluck | Physical | User steals and eats the target's Berry. | |
Poison Fang | Physical | 50% chance to badly poison the target. | |
Poison Sting | Physical | 30% chance to poison the target. | |
Poison Tail | Physical | High critical hit ratio. 10% chance to poison. | |
Pounce | Physical | 100% chance to lower the target's Speed by 1. | |
Pound | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Powder Snow | Special | 10% chance to freeze the foe(s). | |
Power Trip | Physical | + 20 power for each of the user's stat boosts. | |
Psybeam | Special | 10% chance to confuse the target. | |
Psycho Cut | Physical | High critical hit ratio. | |
Psyshield Bash | Physical | 100% chance to raise the user's Defense by 1. | |
Quick Attack | Physical | Usually goes first. | |
Rapid Spin | Physical | Free user from hazards/bind/Leech Seed; +1 Spe. | |
Razor Leaf | Physical | High critical hit ratio. Hits adjacent foes. | |
Retaliate | Physical | No secondary effect (in Singles). | |
Reversal | Physical | More power the less HP the user has left. | |
Rising Voltage | Special | 2x power if target is grounded in Electric Terrain. | |
Rock Smash | Physical | 50% chance to lower the target's Defense by 1. | |
Rock Throw | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Rock Tomb | Physical | 100% chance to lower the target's Speed by 1. | |
Rollout | Physical | Power doubles with each hit. Repeats for 5 turns. | |
Round | Special | Power doubles if others used Round this turn. | |
Salt Cure | Physical | Deals 1/8 max HP each turn; 1/4 on Steel, Water. | |
Sand Tomb | Physical | Traps and damages the target for 4-5 turns. | |
Scorching Sands | Special | 30% chance to burn the target. Thaws target. | |
Scratch | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Shadow Claw | Physical | High critical hit ratio. | |
Shadow Punch | Physical | This move does not check accuracy. | |
Shock Wave | Special | This move does not check accuracy. | |
Skitter Smack | Physical | 100% chance to lower target's Sp. Atk by 1. | |
Slash | Physical | High critical hit ratio. | |
Sludge | Special | 30% chance to poison the target. | |
Smack Down | Physical | Removes the target's Ground immunity. | |
Smart Strike | Physical | This move does not check accuracy. | |
Smog | Special | 40% chance to poison the target. | |
Snarl | Special | 100% chance to lower the foe(s) Sp. Atk by 1. | |
Snore | Special | User must be asleep. 30% chance to flinch target. | |
Spark | Special | 30% chance to paralyze the target. | |
Steel Wing | Physical | 10% chance to raise the user's Defense by 1. | |
Stomp | Physical | 30% chance to make the target flinch. | |
Stone Axe | Physical | Sets Stealth Rock on the target's side. | |
Stored Power | Special | + 20 power for each of the user's stat boosts. | |
Struggle | - | Physical | Only usable when no other moves are available. User loses 1/4 of its max HP. |
Struggle Bug | Special | 100% chance to lower the foe(s) Sp. Atk by 1. | |
Swift | Special | This move does not check accuracy. Hits foes. | |
Syrup Bomb | Special | Target's Speed is lowered by 1 stage for 3 turns. | |
Tackle | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Terrain Pulse | Special | User on terrain: power doubles, type varies. | |
Thief | Physical | If the user has no item, it steals the target's. | |
Thunder Fang | Physical | 10% chance to paralyze. 10% chance to flinch. | |
Thunder Shock | Special | 10% chance to paralyze the target. | |
Trailblaze | Physical | 100% chance to raise the user's Speed by 1. | |
Trop Kick | Physical | 100% chance to lower the target's Attack by 1. | |
Twin Beam | Special | Hits 2 times in one turn. | |
Twister | Special | 20% chance to make the foe(s) flinch. | |
Upper Hand | Physical | 100% flinch. Fails unless target using priority. | |
Venoshock | Special | Power doubles if the target is poisoned. | |
Vice Grip | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Vine Whip | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Water Gun | Special | No additional effect. | |
Water Pulse | Special | 20% chance to confuse the target. | |
Weather Ball | Special | Power doubles and type varies in each weather. | |
Whirlpool | Special | Traps and damages the target for 4-5 turns. | |
Wing Attack | Physical | No additional effect. | |
Wrap | Physical | Traps and damages the target for 4-5 turns. |
How do Dry Moves enhance type effectiveness?
Before | Type Immunity | Type Resist | Hits Neutrally | Hit Super Effectively (x2) |
After | Hits Neutrally | Hits Super Effectively (x2) | Hits Super Effectively (x4) | Hits Super Effectively (x8) |
These changes grant new viability to all sorts of attacking moves normally too weak to be used in competitive play, as well as subpar attacking types like Normal, Grass, Bug, Poison and Psychic. Water, Steel and Fairy’s centralization as defensive types are also bound to take a hit.
Besides providing their users with enhanced coverage options that flip type interactions on their head, many of these moves also have useful secondary effects which prove useful in battle, such as debuff moves like Bulldoze or Chilling Water or stat enhancers like Trailblaze or Mystical Power. Other low power moves that provide essential utility such as Rapid Spin, Dragon Tail, Draining Kiss and Salt Cure get even better!
Here’s my early thoughts on restrictions as the following moves would be blatantly uncompetitive with the proposed buffs. The multi-hitting moves ranging from 140 BP up to 350 BP with Loaded Dice/Skill Link isn’t going to fly, and stuff like pivot moves, strong priority, Knock with extra power and less resists/no immunities just sounds silly.
Restricted Moves
The following moves are not eligible for base power increases or type effectiveness augmentation by virtue of the Dry Moves Clause:
The following moves are not eligible for base power increases or type effectiveness augmentation by virtue of the Dry Moves Clause:
Accelerock
Arm Thrust
Aqua Jet
Beat Up
Bone Rush
Bullet Seed
Double Hit
Double Kick
Dragon Darts
Dual Wingbeat
Flower Trick
Fury Attack
Fury Swipes
Flip Turn
Grassy Glide
Ice Shard
Icicle Spear
Knock Off
Mach Punch
Pin Missile
Population Bomb
Rock Blast
Scale Shot
Shadow Sneak
Sucker Punch
Tachyon Cutter
Tail Slap
Thunderclap
Triple Axel
Triple Kick
Triple Dive
U-Turn
Vacuum Wave
Volt Switch
Water Shuriken
Bullet Punch
Ceaseless Edge
Feint
Facade
Fake Out
Fell Stinger- Flail
Mud-Slap
Nuzzle
Power Trip
Stored Power
Twin Beam
Reversal- Rising Voltage
Quick Attack
Weather Ball
Questions to consider
Q: “How do Dry Moves affect dual-types that normally have 4x resists?”
A: “Similarly to Freeze-Dry, they even out to become neutral hits.
For instance, Freeze-Dry hits Lapras neutrally, by virtue of hitting its Water type super effectively, while being resisted by Ice. Dry Moves function similarly. A Bug-type Dry Move targeting either Flying or Steel would one of hit Corviknight’s types super effectively, but break even from the other type resistance to hit neutrally.”
Q: “How do Dry Moves with variable base power (Facade, Acrobatics, Reversal, Gyro Ball, Stored Power, Weather Ball, etc.) scale from the minimum value of 70? Do the higher powered versions of these moves retain their enhanced effectiveness?
A: “We wouldn’t know this until it’s been coded. Some may need restrictions if they scale from 70 BP while maintaining their Dry Moves buffs.”
Q: “How does Technician interact with Dry Moves?”
A: “As Technician boosts attacks with 60 BP or lower, the pool of moves available for Technician boosts is limited in this format. However, there are still applications for Technician where multi-hit move restrictions apply, such as Breloom using Bullet Seed or Maushold using Population Bomb.”
Q: “What if my Pokémon doesn’t use a Dry Move? Does my chosen Tera type become useless?”
A: “While your chosen Tera type will not provide a mechanical advantage to enhance an attack, you can still use it as a bluff to make your opponent to think twice about switching in.
There is also one more niche purpose; Struggle will deal enhanced effectiveness on your chosen type, should the user run out of PP.”
Q: “How do Dry Moves with secondary status effects change on targeted types? Can Dry-Poison attacks status Steel or Poison types?”
A: “The type effectiveness applies to damage dealt, not status. Just as Fire types are naturally immune to burns, Steel and Poison types are naturally immune to poison status (unless the user also has Corrosion).
However, types without natural immunities to status can now be statused by targeted Dry Moves they would normally be immune to. For instance, Ground types will be able to be paralyzed by targeted Electric-type Dry Moves, as Ground types are not naturally immune to paralysis.”
Q: “How do Dry Moves interact with abilities?”
A: “Dry Moves do not override ability interactions, so a Pokémon with Water Absorb will always be immune to Water moves, and Purifying Salt will always provide a Ghost resistance. (This does not take into account Mold Breaker or Neutralizing Gas where abilities would be nullified.)”
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I don't know the actual coding, but I feel like that's not how Freeze-Dry affects Lapras. I think it's an Ice-type move that now hits Water Super Effectively getting halved by Ice's self-resistance. The slot in the type chart that normally denotes Water resisting Ice changes to a SE hit, and then the damage calculation against a dual-type Water/Ice mon plays out. Metagame sounds neat, besides.
If all Pokémon are broken, none are broken except the ones that are broken anyway.
Movebilities! (WIP)
Premise of the Metagame: Pokémon can use abilities as moves.
Example: (inaccurate movesets)
Potential Bans:
OU bans as well as:
Pokemon:
Moves:
Abilities:
Items:
Some maybe Viable Threats:
:meowscarda: Protean is... interesting
Clarifications:
Protean changes your type to the type of the NEXT move used.
A "switch-in" is treated as the use of the movebility
Questions for the Community:
Should Pokémon be able to use movebilities from itself or its team?
Should I use this or one of the following?
Premise of the Metagame: Pokémon can use abilities as moves.
Example: (inaccurate movesets)
| Pokémon | Turn 1 | Turn 2 | Turn 3 | Turn 4 | |
| Leafage | Contrary | Leafage | Hone Claws | |
| Effect: | Damage | [same as ability] | Damage [contrary] | +1 atk +1 acc | |
 | Speed Boost | Leer | Swords Dance | ||
| Effect: | + 1 spe | -1 def + Contrary= +1 def /\ \/[speed boost] | +1 atk |
Potential Bans:
OU bans as well as:
Pokemon:
Moves:
Abilities:
Items:
Some maybe Viable Threats:
:meowscarda: Protean is... interesting
Clarifications:
Protean changes your type to the type of the NEXT move used.
A "switch-in" is treated as the use of the movebility
Questions for the Community:
Should Pokémon be able to use movebilities from itself or its team?
Should I use this or one of the following?
Movebilities but you can use all abilities legal in AAA
DISCLAIMER: You have to use normal abilities on your Pokémon
DISCLAIMER: You have to use normal abilities on your Pokémon
Trademarked + Movebilities
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This mechanic sounds disgustingly broken.
Even assuming Multihit moves and moves like Stored Power don't get this buff, this idea is just inherently broken and sounds unfun.
Not only do tons of utility attacking moves get a BP increase like Nuzzle, Shadow Sneak, and Salt Cure, they also have a hidden type super effectiveness.
Like imagine having a Fairy and Fighting type on your team and your opponent has Kingambit. How are you supposed to know which Pokemon can survive a Sucker Punch?
And good luck fighting Raging Bolt without Ground types or any of the Ground types when their moves act like Thousand Arrows.
You are replying to a 3 year old comment. ;)
You’re exactly right. FD hits the normally resisted Water for SE damage, but since Ice still resists, they cancel each other out and hit neutrally on Water/Ice. That was the spirit of what I was saying, anyway. I can adjust it for clarity.
And thanks!
HND Update: After discussing it on Discord with InkyDarkBird, I moved most of the remaining multi-hit moves and priority to recommended quick-restricts, and the others to watch. The intention of the premise is to help unviable moves become viable by emulating Freeze-Dry, not to break priority and multi-hit moves.
The watched ones are:
Twin Beam: Now a 140 BP Psychic move. Since Farigiraf is the only user, and is slow, I highly doubt it’s broken. It may become a formidable Trick Room abuser, however.
Feint/Quick Attack: Normal doesn’t ordinarily hit anything for SE damage, and with the format mechanics, these two moves would be marginally stronger with STAB than ESpeed. This would give Normal types a decent and manageable offensive niche.
Bullet Punch: Steel is far from the most threatening offensive type. As Steels likely take the largest hit from the Dry Moves mechanics, and the best BP users are fairly slow mons like Metagross, Scizor and Lucario, I’d be willing to test out a Steel-type ESpeed.
Yes agree, I removed most of the priority and multi-hits to restricted.
On the surprise factor, my bad. I forgot to mention something when I removed the proposed clause (I thought it redundant). Nothing is switching in blind to Dry Move coverage!
Excluding restrictions, attack moves default to a minimum of 70 base power.
Rather than changing the user’s typing, Tera types make the following changes to the effectiveness of the user’s 70 BP attacks against that type:
Rather than changing the user’s typing, Tera types make the following changes to the effectiveness of the user’s 70 BP attacks against that type:
- Immunities become neutral hits.
- Resisted hits become super effective (x2).
- Neutral hits become super effective (x4).
- Super effective hits (x2) become 8x effective.
————
Inky also suggested removing the augmentation to normally neutral / SE hits. I feel like people will generally prefer to hit immunities / resists, but it is relevant for fat mons like Blissey without many weaknesses. How do people feel about this?
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If the metagame is based on Freeze Dry, then it should work the same way as Freeze Dry. If your tera type is Ghost, then Cut, Astonish, Ember, and Poison Sting should all do x2 damage to ghosts; their original multipliers are irrelevant, since the Freeze Dry effect is just changing the multiplier to x2. Using different multipliers depending on the original multiplier is inconsistent with the premise and probably would make a lot more things broken.
Not a terrible idea, but let me ask you this:
While a flat x2 SE across the board is simpler to understand, isn’t turning full immunities into x2 hits more broken than merely making them neutralities?
This is the difference from Landorus and Gliscor taking x4 from Electric moves rather than x2, if the targeted type is Ground, or the difference from Corv taking neutral damage from Ground moves vs x4 from targeted Flying.
True, but it fits the premise better, and I think it's going to be far less broken than turning super effective hits into x8.
I must say, I’m intrigued.
A flat x2 modifier effectiveness adversely affects typings with immunities more than anything. It also makes the “best” defensive dual typings, or ones where a weakness to one is rendered immune by the other, much, much worse.
Notably:
Water/Ground
Ground/Flying
Flying/Steel
Fairy/Steel
Dark/Poison
This change would definitely upend the type chart, and the meta, and give its own unique feel. Corv, Lando and Gliscor… not viable? It (Or less viable anyway?) It sounds wild!
Does anyone else have input on this? Does it make any types with normal immunities too good offensively?
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Personally this is a very OP idea- even with the minimum BP, stuff gets crazy, though technician doesn't exist any more in the meta because now everything gets moves outside its range
This sounds already too broken with just the effectiveness change, increasing BP just forces you to do a massive banlist on something that is already going to have balancing issues, but in general the idea doesn't sounds all that interesting to me, is just reducing defensive counterplay to a crazy degree making it too easy for games to just end in pure cheese because nothing really checks anything.
now, this might either be very fun or very toxic so here it comes...
Metagame Premise: The mechanics of holding an Eject Button will universally apply in every alternate turn: This will be odd numbered turns for one side and even numbered turns for the other.
FAQ
Q: So which side gets odd, which side gets even?
A: The first side to deal direct damage will be the first to activate "Eject Button turns". (i.e. if the first hit of the battle is from you and happens in turn 2, opponent will have Eject Button in even turns, including turn 2.)
Q: What about items like Red Card, Eject Pack, and Eject Button itself?
A: These items work as intended, superseding the mechanic of the meta.
Q: What about moves like Substitute or Protect? They will allow you to stall your turn until you force opponent to switch.
A: These will be on the banlist, as they defeat the purpose of the metagame.
Questions for the community: Do you think this will be fun to play? Are its features too similar to Volt-Turn Mayhem or do you think there is enough niche and uniqueness? Any broken aspects I might have overlooked?
THE SEESAW
Description: This metagame is centered around one thing, and that is, as you can guess from the image: Eject Button.
Metagame Premise: The mechanics of holding an Eject Button will universally apply in every alternate turn: This will be odd numbered turns for one side and even numbered turns for the other.
FAQ
Q: So which side gets odd, which side gets even?
A: The first side to deal direct damage will be the first to activate "Eject Button turns". (i.e. if the first hit of the battle is from you and happens in turn 2, opponent will have Eject Button in even turns, including turn 2.)
Q: What about items like Red Card, Eject Pack, and Eject Button itself?
A: These items work as intended, superseding the mechanic of the meta.
Q: What about moves like Substitute or Protect? They will allow you to stall your turn until you force opponent to switch.
A: These will be on the banlist, as they defeat the purpose of the metagame.
- "Cannon foddering" - This will be a defining feature of the meta, where you can throw-in pokemon that can take hits before sending your actual threats. This metagame effectively erases the momentum loss in bringing pokemon for both sides.
- Set-up sweeps are largely hindered due to the threat of opponent hitting you, however they are still possible, unlike Volt-turn Mayhem.
- Must-recharge moves: These are a double-edged sword as you are not guaranteed to switch after using the move. Opponent might utilize the opportunity to set-up.
- Priority damaging moves: These are a must have, as they give you the ability to dispel speedy threats and potentially avoid sweeps.
- Regenerator: Potentially a broken ability for the meta - since Emergency Exit / Regen combination is already known to be unhealthy.
- Stall - this play-style is also largely hindered due to pokemon potentially being forced to switch every other turn.
- Hyper-offense and choice items: These will greatly benefit from the meta.
- Shed Tail
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Last Respects
- Protect
- Detect
- Silk Trap
- Baneful Bunker
- Spiky Shield
- Burning Bulwark
- Regenerator
- Moody
- King's Rock
- Razor Fang
- Annihilape
- Arceus (all formes)
- Archaludon
- Baxcalibur
- Calyrex-Ice
- Calyrex-Shadow
- Chien-Pao
- Chi-Yu
- Deoxys
- Deoxys-Attack
- Dialga (all formes)
- Espathra
- Eternatus
- Flutter Mane
- Giratina (all formes)
- Gouging Fire
- Groudon
- Ho-Oh
- Iron Bundle
- Koraidon
- Kyogre
- Kyurem-Black
- Kyurem-White
- Landorus-Incarnate
- Lugia
- Lunala
- Magearna
- Mewtwo
- Miraidon
- Necrozma-Dawn Wings
- Necrozma-Dusk Mane
- Ogerpon-Hearthflame
- Palafin
- Palkia (all formes)
- Rayquaza
- Regieleki
- Reshiram
- Roaring Moon
- Shaymin-Sky
- Sneasler
- Solgaleo
- Spectrier
- Terapagos
- Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
- Urshifu (all formes)
- Volcarona
- Zacian (all formes)
- Zamazenta-Crowned
- Zekrom
- Species Clause
- OHKO Clause
- Evasion Items Clause
- Evasion Moves Clause
- Sleep Moves Clause
- Overflow Stat Mod
Questions for the community: Do you think this will be fun to play? Are its features too similar to Volt-Turn Mayhem or do you think there is enough niche and uniqueness? Any broken aspects I might have overlooked?
What would happen to pokemon with guard dog/suction cups, as their abilities prevent being forced to switch out? Also hazards would be extremely viable, as well as weather having a free switch into a sweeper
For example, say you have a pincurchin- take a hit, switch out for free, and sweep with a future Paradox pokemon like Iron Boulder
1) Suction Cups and Guard Dog would probably need to be on the banlist. Seems fair, since Arena Trap, Shadow Tag (kind of the opposite abilities) are not broken in this and are unbanned.
2) Yea fair point, need something that can tank hits from its boosted SpA or something faster / with priority that can force a switch. Seems like meta would be doubly-hyper offensive.
And special-oriented, unless you want to force a switch.
Old Mons New Trick
Metagame Premise: In this Metagame, Pokemon can learn any moves that were introduced in 4+ generations after said Pokemon was introduced.
Example:
Pikachu is a Generation 1 Pokemon, and thus would be able to use any moves made from Generation 5 onwards. You could give this Pikachu Bolt Strike, Triple Axel, P-blades, and Thunderclap if you want to. Any moves introduced 4 generations after the gen Pikachu was introduced.
Kingambit is a Generation 9 Pokemon, but has a pre-evolution from Gen 5, which otherwise would be able to learn Gen 9 moves. What happens in this scenario? Most OMs would allow Kingambit to recieve those moves, however in the spirit of this Metagame, only Bisharp can learn those Gen 9 moves.
So for any scenario of cross-gen evolutions, the evolution will only be able to learn moves from 4+ generations from when they were introduced instead of their pre-evolution’s movepool.
Similar story with alternate forms. Alternate forms will only get moves available based on when they were introduced. In this case for Alolan Ninetales, nothing until Gen 11.
Acid Spray, Acrobatics, After You, Ally Switch, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike, Bulldoze, Circle Throw, Clear Smog, Coil, Cotton Guard, Dragon Tail, Drill Run, Echoed Voice, Electro Ball, Electroweb, Entrainment, Fiery Dance, Final Gambit, Fire Pledge, Flame Charge, Foul Play, Freeze Shock, Frost Breath, Fusion Bolt, Fusion Flare, Glaciate, Grass Pledge, Guard Split, Heal Pulse, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Hex, Hone Claws, Horn Leech, Hurricane, Ice Burn, Icicle Crash, Incinerate, Inferno, Low Sweep, Magic Room, Night Daze, Power Split, Psyshock, Psystrike, Quash, Quick Guard, Quiver Dance, Rage Powder, Razor Shell, Reflect Type, Relic Song, Retaliate, Round, Sacred Sword, Scald, Secret Sword, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Simple Beam, Sludge Wave, Smack Down, Snarl, Soak, Stored Power, Struggle Bug, Tail Slap, Venoshock, Volt Switch, Water Pledge, Wide Guard, Wild Charge, Wonder Room, Work Up
Aromatic Mist, Baby-Doll Eyes, Belch, Boomburst, Celebrate, Confide, Dazzling Gleam, Diamond Storm, Disarming Voice, Dragon Ascent, Draining Kiss, Eerie Impulse, Electric Terrain, Fairy Lock, Fairy Wind, Fell Stinger, Flying Press, Forest's Curse, Freeze-Dry, Grassy Terrain, Happy Hour, Hyperspace Fury, Hyperspace Hole, Infestation, Magnetic Flux, Misty Terrain, Moonblast, Mystical Fire, Noble Roar, Nuzzle, Origin Pulse, Parabolic Charge, Parting Shot, Petal Blizzard, Phantom Force, Play Nice, Play Rough, Precipice Blades, Spiky Shield, Steam Eruption, Sticky Web, Topsy-Turvy, Water Shuriken
Accelerock, Aurora Veil, Baneful Bunker, Beak Blast, Brutal Swing, Clanging Scales, Darkest Lariat, Dragon Hammer, Fire Lash, First Impression, Fleur Cannon, Floral Healing, High Horsepower, Ice Hammer, Instruct, Leafage, Liquidation, Lunge, Moongeist Beam, Photon Geyser, Pollen Puff, Power Trip, Prismatic Laser, Psychic Fangs, Psychic Terrain, Revelation Dance, Shore Up, Smart Strike, Solar Blade, Sparkling Aria, Speed Swap, Spirit Shackle, Stomping Tantrum, Strength Sap, Sunsteel Strike, Tearful Look, Throat Chop, Toxic Thread, Trop Kick, Zing Zap
Apple Acid, Astral Barrage, Aura Wheel, Behemoth Bash, Behemoth Blade, Body Press, Branch Poke, Breaking Swipe, Burning Jealousy, Clangorous Soul, Coaching, Court Change, Decorate, Dragon Darts, Dragon Energy, Drum Beating, Dual Wingbeat, Dynamax Cannon, Eerie Spell, Expanding Force, False Surrender, Fiery Wrath, Flip Turn, Freezing Glare, Glacial Lance, Grassy Glide, Grav Apple, Jaw Lock, Jungle Healing, Lash Out, Life Dew, Magic Powder, Meteor Beam, Misty Explosion, No Retreat, Overdrive, Poltergeist, Pyro Ball, Rising Voltage, Scale Shot, Scorching Sands, Shell Side Arm, Skitter Smack, Snipe Shot, Spirit Break, Steel Beam, Steel Roller, Strange Steam, Stuff Cheeks, Surging Strikes, Tar Shot, Teatime, Terrain Pulse, Thunder Cage, Thunderous Kick, Triple Axel, Wicked Blow
Alluring Voice, Aqua Cutter, Aqua Step, Armor Cannon, Axe Kick, Barb Barrage, Bitter Blade, Bitter Malice, Blazing Torque, Bleakwind Storm, Blood Moon, Burning Bulwark, Ceaseless Edge, Chilling Water, Chilly Reception, Chloroblast, Collision Course, Combat Torque, Comeuppance, Dire Claw, Doodle, Double Shock, Dragon Cheer, Electro Drift, Electro Shot, Esper Wing, Fickle Beam, Fillet Away, Flower Trick, Gigaton Hammer, Glaive Rush, Hard Press, Headlong Rush, Hydro Steam, Hyper Drill, Ice Spinner, Infernal Parade, Ivy Cudgel, Jet Punch, Kowtow Cleave, Last Respects, Lumina Crash, Lunar Blessing, Magical Torque, Make It Rain, Malignant Chain, Matcha Gotcha, Mighty Cleave, Mortal Spin, Mountain Gale, Mystical Power, Noxious Torque, Order Up, Population Bomb, Pounce, Psyblade, Psychic Noise, Psyshield Bash, Rage Fist, Raging Bull, Raging Fury, Revival Blessing, Ruination, Salt Cure, Sandsear Storm, Shed Tail, Shelter, Silk Trap, Snowscape, Spicy Extract, Spin Out, Springtide Storm, Stone Axe, Supercell Slam, Syrup Bomb, Tachyon Cutter, Take Heart, Temper Flare, Tera Blast, Tera Starstorm, Thunderclap, Tidy Up, Torch Song, Trailblaze, Triple Arrows, Triple Dive, Twin Beam, Upper Hand, Victory Dance, Wave Crash, Wicked Torque, Wildbolt Storm
Potential threats:
Dragonite now gets access to Shift Gear, Dragon Ascent, Dragon Darts, Acrobatics, Coil, Torque moves, on top of its already great kit. It would not surprise me if it gets banned.
Gyarados is a lower tier Pokemon but mostly die to Gen 9 gutting its movepool. It won’t be as strong as Dragonite, but it does have great options as a Gen 1 Pokemon.
Metagross will be a top threat having access to STAB Sunsteel Strike, Gigaton Hammer, and Photon Geyser. You then have tons of coverage options from Headling Rush to Grav Apple.
We don't need people running Jirachi with Dire Claw, Mountain Gale, Triple Arrows, or Wicked Torques.
Questions for the community:
1. Is the generational gap here ideal? I came up with the 4 generational gap because that seemed to have the right amount of generations for a Pokemon to be considered "old". And that's just about half of Pokemon too as we're in Gen 9 currently. But let me know if the gap should be wider or thinner.
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So from your examples, If I understand correctly, neither Ninetales-A nor Kingambit can get any legal moves in the meta and are forced to Struggle? I don't think cutting-off mons is something sought after for metas.Old Mons New TrickMetagame Premise: In this Metagame, Pokemon can learn any moves that were introduced in 4+ generations after said Pokemon was introduced.
Example:
Pikachu is a Generation 1 Pokemon, and thus would be able to use any moves made from Generation 5 onwards. You could give this Pikachu Bolt Strike, Triple Axel, Thousand Arrows, and Thunderclap if you want to. Any moves introduced 4 generations after the gen Pikachu was introduced.
Kingambit is a Generation 9 Pokemon, but has a pre-evolution from Gen 5, which otherwise would be able to learn Gen 9 moves. What happens in this scenario? Most OMs would allow Kingambit to recieve those moves, however in the spirit of this Metagame, only Bisharp can learn those Gen 9 moves.
So for any scenario of cross-gen evolutions, the evolution will only be able to learn moves from 4+ generations from when they were introduced instead of their pre-evolution’s movepool.
Similar story with alternate forms. Alternate forms will only get moves available based on when they were introduced. In this case for Alolan Ninetales, nothing until Gen 11.
Acid Spray, Acrobatics, After You, Ally Switch, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike, Bulldoze, Circle Throw, Clear Smog, Coil, Cotton Guard, Dragon Tail, Drill Run, Echoed Voice, Electro Ball, Electroweb, Entrainment, Fiery Dance, Final Gambit, Fire Pledge, Flame Charge, Foul Play, Freeze Shock, Frost Breath, Fusion Bolt, Fusion Flare, Glaciate, Grass Pledge, Guard Split, Heal Pulse, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Hex, Hone Claws, Horn Leech, Hurricane, Ice Burn, Icicle Crash, Incinerate, Inferno, Low Sweep, Magic Room, Night Daze, Power Split, Psyshock, Psystrike, Quash, Quick Guard, Quiver Dance, Rage Powder, Razor Shell, Reflect Type, Relic Song, Retaliate, Round, Sacred Sword, Scald, Secret Sword, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Simple Beam, Sludge Wave, Smack Down, Snarl, Soak, Stored Power, Struggle Bug, Tail Slap, Venoshock, Volt Switch, Water Pledge, Wide Guard, Wild Charge, Wonder Room, Work Up
Aromatic Mist, Baby-Doll Eyes, Belch, Boomburst, Celebrate, Confide, Dazzling Gleam, Diamond Storm, Disarming Voice, Dragon Ascent, Draining Kiss, Eerie Impulse, Electric Terrain, Fairy Lock, Fairy Wind, Fell Stinger, Flying Press, Forest's Curse, Freeze-Dry, Grassy Terrain, Happy Hour, Hyperspace Fury, Hyperspace Hole, Infestation, Magnetic Flux, Misty Terrain, Moonblast, Mystical Fire, Noble Roar, Nuzzle, Origin Pulse, Parabolic Charge, Parting Shot, Petal Blizzard, Phantom Force, Play Nice, Play Rough, Precipice Blades, Spiky Shield, Steam Eruption, Sticky Web, Topsy-Turvy, Water Shuriken
Accelerock, Aurora Veil, Baneful Bunker, Beak Blast, Brutal Swing, Clanging Scales, Darkest Lariat, Dragon Hammer, Fire Lash, First Impression, Fleur Cannon, Floral Healing, High Horsepower, Ice Hammer, Instruct, Leafage, Liquidation, Lunge, Moongeist Beam, Photon Geyser, Pollen Puff, Power Trip, Prismatic Laser, Psychic Fangs, Psychic Terrain, Revelation Dance, Shore Up, Smart Strike, Solar Blade, Sparkling Aria, Speed Swap, Spirit Shackle, Stomping Tantrum, Strength Sap, Sunsteel Strike, Tearful Look, Throat Chop, Toxic Thread, Trop Kick, Zing Zap
Apple Acid, Astral Barrage, Aura Wheel, Behemoth Bash, Behemoth Blade, Body Press, Branch Poke, Breaking Swipe, Burning Jealousy, Clangorous Soul, Coaching, Court Change, Decorate, Dragon Darts, Dragon Energy, Drum Beating, Dual Wingbeat, Dynamax Cannon, Eerie Spell, Expanding Force, False Surrender, Fiery Wrath, Flip Turn, Freezing Glare, Glacial Lance, Grassy Glide, Grav Apple, Jaw Lock, Jungle Healing, Lash Out, Life Dew, Magic Powder, Meteor Beam, Misty Explosion, No Retreat, Overdrive, Poltergeist, Pyro Ball, Rising Voltage, Scale Shot, Scorching Sands, Shell Side Arm, Skitter Smack, Snipe Shot, Spirit Break, Steel Beam, Steel Roller, Strange Steam, Stuff Cheeks, Surging Strikes, Tar Shot, Teatime, Terrain Pulse, Thunder Cage, Thunderous Kick, Triple Axel, Wicked Blow
Alluring Voice, Aqua Cutter, Aqua Step, Armor Cannon, Axe Kick, Barb Barrage, Bitter Blade, Bitter Malice, Blazing Torque, Bleakwind Storm, Blood Moon, Burning Bulwark, Ceaseless Edge, Chilling Water, Chilly Reception, Chloroblast, Collision Course, Combat Torque, Comeuppance, Dire Claw, Doodle, Double Shock, Dragon Cheer, Electro Drift, Electro Shot, Esper Wing, Fickle Beam, Fillet Away, Flower Trick, Gigaton Hammer, Glaive Rush, Hard Press, Headlong Rush, Hydro Steam, Hyper Drill, Ice Spinner, Infernal Parade, Ivy Cudgel, Jet Punch, Kowtow Cleave, Last Respects, Lumina Crash, Lunar Blessing, Magical Torque, Make It Rain, Malignant Chain, Matcha Gotcha, Mighty Cleave, Mortal Spin, Mountain Gale, Mystical Power, Noxious Torque, Order Up, Population Bomb, Pounce, Psyblade, Psychic Noise, Psyshield Bash, Rage Fist, Raging Bull, Raging Fury, Revival Blessing, Ruination, Salt Cure, Sandsear Storm, Shed Tail, Shelter, Silk Trap, Snowscape, Spicy Extract, Spin Out, Springtide Storm, Stone Axe, Supercell Slam, Syrup Bomb, Tachyon Cutter, Take Heart, Temper Flare, Tera Blast, Tera Starstorm, Thunderclap, Tidy Up, Torch Song, Trailblaze, Triple Arrows, Triple Dive, Twin Beam, Upper Hand, Victory Dance, Wave Crash, Wicked Torque, Wildbolt Storm
Potential threats:
Dragonite now gets access to Shift Gear, Thousand Arrows, Dragon Ascent, Dragon Darts, Acrobatics, Coil, Torque moves, on top of its already great kit. It would not surprise me if it gets banned.
Gyarados is a lower tier Pokemon but mostly die to Gen 9 gutting its movepool. It won’t be as strong as Dragonite, but it does have great options as a Gen 1 Pokemon.
Metagross will be a top threat having access to STAB Sunsteel Strike, Gigaton Hammer, and Photon Geyser. You then have tons of coverage options from Thousand Arrows to Trop Kick.
We don't need people running Jirachi with Dire Claw, Mountain Gale, Triple Arrows, or Wicked Torques.
Questions for the community:
1. Is the generational gap here ideal? I came up with the 4 generational gap because that seemed to have the right amount of generations for a Pokemon to be considered "old". And that's just about half of Pokemon too as we're in Gen 9 currently. But let me know if the gap should be wider or thinner.
There could be a better way to distribute the moves. Maybe every mon only gets moves introduced one gen after themselves (so for gen 9, it would cycle back to gen 1). It is also possible with Alphabet, STABmons, BH, Convergence existing, saturation point might have already been reached with move-set altering OMs.
You could have some mons with neutral -> SE but most neutral -> neutral (however this would be hard to code, so only use as a last resort).
I like it! Also, gen gap is ideal.Old Mons New TrickMetagame Premise: In this Metagame, Pokémon can learn any moves that were introduced in 4+ generations after said Pokémon was introduced.
Example:
Pikachu is a Generation 1 Pokémon, and thus would be able to use any moves made from Generation 5 onwards. You could give this Pikachu Bolt Strike, Triple Axel, Thousand Arrows, and Thunderclap if you want to. Any moves introduced 4 generations after the gen Pikachu was introduced.
Kingambit is a Generation 9 Pokémon, but has a pre-evolution from Gen 5, which otherwise would be able to learn Gen 9 moves. What happens in this scenario? Most OMs would allow Kingambit to receive those moves, however in the spirit of this Metagame, only Bisharp can learn those Gen 9 moves.
So for any scenario of cross-gen evolutions, the evolution will only be able to learn moves from 4+ generations from when they were introduced instead of their pre-evolution’s movepool.
Similar story with alternate forms. Alternate forms will only get moves available based on when they were introduced. In this case for Alolan Ninetales, nothing until Gen 11.
Acid Spray, Acrobatics, After You, Ally Switch, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike, Bulldoze, Circle Throw, Clear Smog, Coil, Cotton Guard, Dragon Tail, Drill Run, Echoed Voice, Electro Ball, Electroweb, Entrainment, Fiery Dance, Final Gambit, Fire Pledge, Flame Charge, Foul Play, Freeze Shock, Frost Breath, Fusion Bolt, Fusion Flare, Glaciate, Grass Pledge, Guard Split, Heal Pulse, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Hex, Hone Claws, Horn Leech, Hurricane, Ice Burn, Icicle Crash, Incinerate, Inferno, Low Sweep, Magic Room, Night Daze, Power Split, Psyshock, Psystrike, Quash, Quick Guard, Quiver Dance, Rage Powder, Razor Shell, Reflect Type, Relic Song, Retaliate, Round, Sacred Sword, Scald, Secret Sword, Shell Smash, Shift Gear, Simple Beam, Sludge Wave, Smack Down, Snarl, Soak, Stored Power, Struggle Bug, Tail Slap, Venoshock, Volt Switch, Water Pledge, Wide Guard, Wild Charge, Wonder Room, Work Up
Aromatic Mist, Baby-Doll Eyes, Belch, Boomburst, Celebrate, Confide, Dazzling Gleam, Diamond Storm, Disarming Voice, Dragon Ascent, Draining Kiss, Eerie Impulse, Electric Terrain, Fairy Lock, Fairy Wind, Fell Stinger, Flying Press, Forest's Curse, Freeze-Dry, Grassy Terrain, Happy Hour, Hyperspace Fury, Hyperspace Hole, Infestation, Magnetic Flux, Misty Terrain, Moonblast, Mystical Fire, Noble Roar, Nuzzle, Origin Pulse, Parabolic Charge, Parting Shot, Petal Blizzard, Phantom Force, Play Nice, Play Rough, Precipice Blades, Spiky Shield, Steam Eruption, Sticky Web, Topsy-Turvy, Water Shuriken
Accelerock, Aurora Veil, Baneful Bunker, Beak Blast, Brutal Swing, Clanging Scales, Darkest Lariat, Dragon Hammer, Fire Lash, First Impression, Fleur Cannon, Floral Healing, High Horsepower, Ice Hammer, Instruct, Leafage, Liquidation, Lunge, Moongeist Beam, Photon Geyser, Pollen Puff, Power Trip, Prismatic Laser, Psychic Fangs, Psychic Terrain, Revelation Dance, Shore Up, Smart Strike, Solar Blade, Sparkling Aria, Speed Swap, Spirit Shackle, Stomping Tantrum, Strength Sap, Sunsteel Strike, Tearful Look, Throat Chop, Toxic Thread, Trop Kick, Zing Zap
Apple Acid, Astral Barrage, Aura Wheel, Behemoth Bash, Behemoth Blade, Body Press, Branch Poke, Breaking Swipe, Burning Jealousy, Clangorous Soul, Coaching, Court Change, Decorate, Dragon Darts, Dragon Energy, Drum Beating, Dual Wingbeat, Dynamax Cannon, Eerie Spell, Expanding Force, False Surrender, Fiery Wrath, Flip Turn, Freezing Glare, Glacial Lance, Grassy Glide, Grav Apple, Jaw Lock, Jungle Healing, Lash Out, Life Dew, Magic Powder, Meteor Beam, Misty Explosion, No Retreat, Overdrive, Poltergeist, Pyro Ball, Rising Voltage, Scale Shot, Scorching Sands, Shell Side Arm, Skitter Smack, Snipe Shot, Spirit Break, Steel Beam, Steel Roller, Strange Steam, Stuff Cheeks, Surging Strikes, Tar Shot, Teatime, Terrain Pulse, Thunder Cage, Thunderous Kick, Triple Axel, Wicked Blow
Alluring Voice, Aqua Cutter, Aqua Step, Armor Cannon, Axe Kick, Barb Barrage, Bitter Blade, Bitter Malice, Blazing Torque, Bleakwind Storm, Blood Moon, Burning Bulwark, Ceaseless Edge, Chilling Water, Chilly Reception, Chloroblast, Collision Course, Combat Torque, Comeuppance, Dire Claw, Doodle, Double Shock, Dragon Cheer, Electro Drift, Electro Shot, Esper Wing, Fickle Beam, Fillet Away, Flower Trick, Gigaton Hammer, Glaive Rush, Hard Press, Headlong Rush, Hydro Steam, Hyper Drill, Ice Spinner, Infernal Parade, Ivy Cudgel, Jet Punch, Kowtow Cleave, Last Respects, Lumina Crash, Lunar Blessing, Magical Torque, Make It Rain, Malignant Chain, Matcha Gotcha, Mighty Cleave, Mortal Spin, Mountain Gale, Mystical Power, Noxious Torque, Order Up, Population Bomb, Pounce, Psyblade, Psychic Noise, Psyshield Bash, Rage Fist, Raging Bull, Raging Fury, Revival Blessing, Ruination, Salt Cure, Sandsear Storm, Shed Tail, Shelter, Silk Trap, Snowscape, Spicy Extract, Spin Out, Springtide Storm, Stone Axe, Supercell Slam, Syrup Bomb, Tachyon Cutter, Take Heart, Temper Flare, Tera Blast, Tera Starstorm, Thunderclap, Tidy Up, Torch Song, Trailblaze, Triple Arrows, Triple Dive, Twin Beam, Upper Hand, Victory Dance, Wave Crash, Wicked Torque, Wildbolt Storm
Potential threats:
Dragonite now gets access to Shift Gear, Thousand Arrows, Dragon Ascent, Dragon Darts, Acrobatics, Coil, Torque moves, on top of its already great kit. It would not surprise me if it gets banned.
Gyarados is a lower tier Pokémon but mostly die to Gen 9 gutting its movepool. It won’t be as strong as Dragonite, but it does have great options as a Gen 1 Pokemon.
Metagross will be a top threat having access to STAB Sunsteel Strike, Gigaton Hammer, and Photon Geyser. You then have tons of coverage options from Thousand Arrows to Trop Kick.
We don't need people running Jirachi with Dire Claw, Mountain Gale, Triple Arrows, or Wicked Torques.
Questions for the community:
1. Is the generational gap here ideal? I came up with the 4 generational gap because that seemed to have the right amount of generations for a Pokémon to be considered "old". And that's just about half of Pokémon too as we're in Gen 9 currently. But let me know if the gap should be wider or thinner.
Even Dynamaxing won't protect you from the effect of the Eject Button, since that's considered to be your item, and therefore you intended to switch.